CGI-Wiki-dev

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134 discussions

TWiki in T.O.
by Martin＠Cleaver.org 26 Sep '03

26 Sep '03

Hi all, Thanks for the conversations at today's Toronto Perl Monger meeting this evening - I very much enjoyed it. A few references: 1 TWiki: http://TWiki.org 2 Advocacy: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/TWikiSuccessStories 3 A village community site I set up: http://redbourn.org.uk 3 Demo of HtmlArea experimentally embedded in TWiki (feel free to Edit but note the rest of this site is broken): http://testwiki.mrjc.com/twiki/bin/view/HtmlAreaTest/WebHome 4 My position on the development of TWiki: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/MartinCleaver 5 CgiWiki development mailing list: http://www.earth.li/pipermail/cgi-wiki-dev/ 6 MichaelSparks' fork of TWiki, OWiki: http://owiki.org In short, I think that TWiki has the best functionality today and will continue to do so in the short term, but that CgiWiki has a brighter future due to a cleaner architecture. Either CgiWiki needs to provide support for entry-level users (i.e. text file back end) or the core of TWiki needs to be rationalised. If you are planning to install, Michael Sparks' fork is probably the easiest as he has written an installer that runs on UNIX and on Cygwin. Cheers, Martin. -- Martin(a)Cleaver.org Melbourne Business School FT 2004 MBA Exchange Participant to Rotman Cell:+1 416 832 7759 Y!:mrjcleaver ICQ:55418201

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CGI::Wiki::Kwiki / CGI::Wiki::Simple
by Kate L Pugh 25 Sep '03

25 Sep '03

I've been doing a fair bit of work on Tom's CGI::Wiki::Kwiki module over the past few days, and am now really rather pleased with it. 0.4, released today, allows you to use multiple formatters if you wish. I have been running a local craft group wiki on this module for quite some time - see http://the.earth.li/~kake/cgi-bin/london.crafts/wiki.cgi Now I am not sure that this module is very well-named for the direction it has taken. Tom wrote it originally to help a friend of ours transition from a Kwiki to a CGI::Wiki wiki, but I've done a lot of stuff to it that has nothing to do with Kwiki. Max Maischein, who is on this list, wrote CGI::Wiki::Simple some time ago, but I don't think he's found time to work on it for some months, and last time I tried it I couldn't get it working. I am wondering whether these two projects should be merged and renamed. Note that I'm only wondering this because CGI::Wiki::Simple development seems to have stalled - Max, if you still want to carry on working on it I have no problem with that. It's just that search.cpan seems to love it an awful lot and it comes up at the top of searches. Just a braindump anyway. Is anyone else alive out there? Kake PS CGI::Wiki 0.49 is out and fixes some case-sensitivity issues that I'd been having with metadata searches.

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Multiple formatter support
by Kate L Pugh 22 Sep '03

22 Sep '03

I'd like to be able to make wikis where the author of a node can choose what wiki (or other) syntax to write in - using, for example, a drop-down box on the edit screen. This will allow you to do things like have documentation pages written in POD, test suite pages written in plain text and rendered using a simple formatter class that just puts <pre> around everything, and discussion pages written in your favourite Wiki syntax. There's an example of this at http://openguides-dev.aardvark-ss.com/?Stylesheet_Manchester Now, that's done in the OpenGuides layer - I haven't seen Jody's code so I don't know quite how; I'm guessing that he's always calling $relevant_formatter->format rather than $wiki->formatter. I want to add this multiple formatter feature to CGI::Wiki::Kwiki and so am wondering whether it should be explicitly supported by CGI::Wiki, and if so, should this be done by changing the CGI::Wiki API or by creating CGI::Wiki::Formatter::Multiple to handle it all. The main tasks that a solution needs to accomplish are: - when saving a node, store some metadata to indicate the required formatter - when displaying a node, retrieve that metadata and use it to choose the appropriate formatter Changing the CGI::Wiki API would mean that CGI::Wiki was mandating the behaviour of a particular metadata field, something it hasn't done up to now and I'm not sure it should do. Handling it via CGI::Wiki::Formatter::Multiple would mean that the application code would be responsible for storing and retrieving the formatter-type metadata. The wins in this case over just handling all the multipleness in code would be: - can just call $wiki->format instead of selecting the right formatter class, instantiating and calling that - things like allowed_tags only need to be supplied once, to CGI::Wiki::Formatter::Multiple->new, rather than to each individual formatter. (On the other hand, you might *want* to allow different tags for the different types of pages.) Thoughts? Kake

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Config file location code
by Jody Belka 19 Sep '03

19 Sep '03

As promised to Kake last night, I've written some config file location code that isn't specific to my installation. Can people take a look and see what they think please? Jody

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CGi::Wiki - Versioning of Wiki subjects?
by Martin＠Cleaver.org 19 Sep '03

19 Sep '03

Hi Kate, One of TWiki's best features is versioning of topics. Does CGI::Wiki provide support for this and, if not, is there any intention that it should in the future? Many thanks, Martin -- Martin(a)Cleaver.org Melbourne Business School FT 2004 MBA Exchange Participant to Rotman Cell:+1 416 832 7759 Y!:mrjcleaver ICQ:554118201

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Convergence with Kwiki?
by Martin＠Cleaver.org 14 Sep '03

14 Sep '03

Hi Kake, More questions. has anyone proposed, and what's the general feeling about, merging the efforts of CGI::Wiki and Kwiki? I question the need for independent efforts and wonder whether a joint community would have better economies of scale. Cheers, Martin -- Martin(a)Cleaver.org Melbourne Business School FT 2004 MBA Exchange Participant to Rotman Cell:+1 416 832 7759 Y!:mrjcleaver ICQ:55418201

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FW: Text file backend?
by Martin＠Cleaver.org 14 Sep '03

14 Sep '03

FYI -- Martin(a)Cleaver.org - +1 416 832 7759 Melbourne Business School FT 2004 MBA Exchange Participant to Rotman =-----Original Message----- =From: Kate L Pugh [mailto:kake@earth.li] =Sent: Sunday, 31 August 2003 9:06 AM =To: Martin(a)Cleaver.org =Cc: 'Anton Aylward CISSP CISA'; 'Peter Masiar' =Subject: Re: Text file backend? = =On Sat 30 Aug 2003, Martin(a)Cleaver.org wrote: => Just wondering whether anyone had proposed implementing a flat text =file => back-end to CGI::Wiki. = =It's been proposed, but nobody's actually offered to write it. I =really don't think I'll have the time to do it myself any time soon - =you can see why at = http://the.earth.li/~kake/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi/os.pod/TODO = - but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be done. If somebody =is willing to put in the time to do it, that is. = => Although the performance would not be as quick as a database this => might give CGI::Wiki greater appeal as many TWiki users choose TWiki => because they like the comfort of being able to hack the files if => things go wrong. = =Yup, that does make sense. Although I don't mind loading up a =database client and hacking the store with SQL, I'm sure that a lot of =people would hate to do that :) = =This is just a short response so you know I'm not ignoring you - I =have an awful lot to get done today. I've never used Twiki; I guess I =should have a look at it. I'll try to write more when I have some =time, maybe midweek. = =Kake

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Re: [cgi-wiki-dev] Mailing list vs wiki for discussion
by Tom Insam 14 Sep '03

14 Sep '03

At 12:34 -0400 2003/09/14, <Martin(a)Cleaver.org> wrote: >Just for the record I will say that I prefer a wiki for discussion to email. >I like being able to refactor and cross reference for other people and to >use pages to build consensus of opinion. And that's without cluttering my >mailbox. > >I do recognise that this only works well on TWiki because that retains page >histories - am I right in thinking that this is not the case for CGI::Wiki? CGI::Wiki has history. Wikis just don't work unless they have history. For a time, one of my biggest issues with Kwiki was that it didn't, though they solved this issue eventually. You're still not quite making sense, though. CGI::Wiki has page history, but not in a user-accessible way, because you can't do _anything_ to CGI::Wiki except through a specific front-end. Talk about openguides, or CGI::Wiki::Kwiki, or CGI::Wiki::Simple, or something, if you have specific questions. -- .tom

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Re: [cgi-wiki-dev] Convergence with Kwiki?
by Tom Insam 14 Sep '03

14 Sep '03

At 0:34 -0400 2003/09/14, <Martin(a)Cleaver.org> wrote: >Hi Kake, >More questions has anyone proposed, and what's >the general feeling about, merging the efforts >of CGI::Wiki and Kwiki? I question the need for >independent efforts and wonder whether a joint >community would have better economies of scale. >Cheers, > Martin Apart form Jonathan's point, for me the main difference is that Kwiki is a bit of CGI that implements a Wiki. CGI::Wiki isn't, it's a toolkit that lets you build a wiki. There's an important difference - to change how Kwiki works, you're removing bits of it and doing your own thing. You don't need to change how a CGI::Wiki engine works, hopefully, it's just a matter of building the front end differently. Of course, having said that, I _did_ write CGI::Wiki::Kwiki, which was intended to be a simple Kwiki-like front end to CGI::Wiki that Just Worked, but that was more of a 'move your kwiki to a 'real' database' aid than anything else. There's no way that openguides could have been built on a Kwiki without serious messing around. Openguides is obviously a wiki, but not what I'd think of as a 'traditional' wiki... -- .tom

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Mailing list vs wiki for discussion
by Martin＠Cleaver.org 14 Sep '03

14 Sep '03

Just for the record I will say that I prefer a wiki for discussion to email. I like being able to refactor and cross reference for other people and to use pages to build consensus of opinion. And that's without cluttering my mailbox. I do recognise that this only works well on TWiki because that retains page histories - am I right in thinking that this is not the case for CGI::Wiki? Cheers, Martin ------Original Message----- =From: Kate L Pugh [mailto:kake@earth.li] =Sent: Wednesday, 3 September 2003 4:03 AM =To: Martin(a)Cleaver.org =Subject: Re: Text file backend? = =On Sun 31 Aug 2003, Martin(a)Cleaver.org wrote: => 1 Is there a wiki used for discussing CGI::Wiki? I'm thinking =something => along the lines of http://www.twiki.org/cgi-bin/changes/Codev. There are => some others that I'd like to bring into the conversation but obviously =I'm => keen to avoid the limitations of email. = =I don't really like wikis for discussion. I've set up a mailman list =which you can subscribe to at = http://www.earth.li/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cgi-wiki-dev = => 2 What's the best demo site for CGI::Wiki? = =Probably the main OpenGuides one - http://openguides.org/london/ =The OpenGuides code is on CPAN. = =Kake

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