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Off Topic?
by John Seago 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

David Freeman wants us to return to topic and his first act is to use a quote which uses religion as an analogy for the sectarian divides in the linux/free/open community! `dons' & `asbestos' to get back to the subject which started all this. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Joww Win wrote: >I arrive back in the UK on the weekend and would like to order a boxed >Slackware ASAP. Can anyone tell me where I can buy one from in the UK. Joss - here you go: http://www.cheeplinux.co.uk/cat.pl?session_id=&search=slackware Jenny.

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Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Joss Winn 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hiya, I've just bought an old P133 Dell laptop for writing essays and using a shell account on and think I want to put Slackware on it. I arrive back in the UK on the weekend and would like to order a boxed Slackware ASAP. Can anyone tell me where I can buy one from in the UK. I've used the Linux Emporium in the past but they still don't have the boxed sets. Thanks Joss

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Linux in the news
by David Freeman 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

All, For a nice return to topic. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/dot_life/newsid_144… is a good story on techy gadgets and mentions linux and the I love linux camps etc... Most interesting. I like the bit "Old Amiga and Acorn computers have legions of fans, as does the ill-fated Apple Newton; there are Palm patriots and Ericsson evangelists. And there are thousands who worship at the church of Linux and its associated technologies. " Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Language, Education, Religion and History
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Sorry, folks. I think we're going to have to draw a line under this off-topic discussion of spelling and religion. People are unsubscribing from the list en masse, including some active participants, and there are more than enough other places to have this discussion, particularly in uk.* newsgroups. If someone wants to nominate an alternative place for it to continue, or bring the discussion back on-topic, that's OK, but otherwise expect the email-eater to be in use for the first time ever.

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Parental education was Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by Earl Brannigan 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Hi guys, Really a point of order... sorry list, this has sod all to do with Linux. OK, Gotta have two penneth here, happen to be well versed in both Theology and Religious History, I have for 5 years also been involved in cult exit counselling so I have seen the extremes of religious practice. David Freeman wrote: > To: Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com, alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > --- Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com wrote: > > > > > > >The problem > > >is parenting ansd socail responsiblity aren't impressed upon people, > > >which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of > > infleunce > > >of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on > > >moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there > > >off spring. Because of enforcing bible in latin only and underpinning the snobbish practice of french being the de-facto language of the ruling classes the Church (ie the Catholic Church as-was) enforced ignorance on people. Thus the masses were not empowered by a moral code because they were unable to read it. Anyone translating the Bible into the common tongue was burned at the stake for it. After the reformation the bible ("the common Moral code") became available to all in the common tongue, however one still had to fall in line with the received interpretation of such else face a similar penalty. Thus rather than an morally uplifting mechanism for society religion has merely been a conformance-enforcement mechanism for a pre-determined 'moral, legal' code. > > Jen's soapbox of the day: > > Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Religion is > > responsible > > for a lot of bad stuff. Religion was made to control, and the people > > in > > charge of it abuse their power. Morality through fear is not a > > solution. People have a monopoly on morality. People have chosen over the years to abdicate the responsibility that comes with morality to Religion. Morality is in effect conscience with laws. We know its wrong to commit murder, but without a common agreed law we would have nothing to train our consciences of that fact. Religion gives direction to our morality, validation and enforcement. Allowing us to trust our consciences by ensuring it complies with the moral code as interpreted by religion. The post-modernist world does away with the 'absolute truth' aspect of religious beleif ("Well, if it's true for you" is the mantra of the post-modernist). I think it is this aspect of society that is being highlighted in the comments leading up to this exchange. > > true, it is not an ideal situation, and I am in know way religious. But > they acted as a guide and the simple existance of a book of rules which > people read helps (bible , Torah etc...) The problem we have here is > one best described by Douglas adams "any person whos wants to be > presedent shouldn't be" and the same is true for the church, > unfortunatly like most big institutions it becam corrupt. > > > Intelligence and understanding should be the teachers of humanity. > > And how > > are people going to be intelligent or understanding without a fair > > chance > > in life? > > And in history who where the few literate people? the church, who would > then be able to guide people? the church. who had medical knowlegde? > the church. As mentioned above, corruption becomes possible through the concentration of such power (assertion : knowledge=power) in the hands of a select few. > > The church has been the corner stone of our society for so long and > although bits of it are corrupt it's overall effect has been a good > one. Good being a relative term, had the Church not survived beyond the 1st Century we cannot say whether the final result would have been good or bad. (ie better or worse than what actually happened) > > > There's nowt as strange as folks. > > So true. Hope this doesn't offend the religious persuasions of anyone on the list.. Regards Earl

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Also can people not reply to the poster and the list, just the list > will do. Now this is an age-old debate. Some people (including myself) actually quite like to get cc's, as it means that those actively involved in the discussion get responses to their messages quicker than if it's bounced via the list server first. However, others dislike the duplicate messages. There is no right answer to this one, I suspect.

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Language, Education, Religion and History
by John Seago 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Interestingly the grammer/spelling discussion has now reached the point where it touches upon religion. It is (probably mistakenly) my understanding that European Christianity owes its current position to the decision taken by the Roman Empire to use it as an extension of its political influence. However if one looks at the other institution used to extend the political influence of the Roman Empire, the Roman Army, the latter is currently older than the Church. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > EUROPEAN STANDARD ENGLISH Forwarded ancient mass-forwarded xenophobic "joke". > which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of infleunce > of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on > moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there > off spring. Irrelevant introduction of religion into the discussion of morals. Yep, this should start a small flame-war. Can people take this off-list, or at least trim quotes very heavily when replying, please? Thanks.

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

David Freeman wrote: >ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU! I like that. Have you read that Ray Bradbury story where a guy goes back in time and steps on a butterfly and when he returns to the present the language has changed just like this? >The problem >is parenting ansd socail responsiblity aren't impressed upon people, >which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of infleunce >of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on >moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there >off spring. Jen's soapbox of the day: Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Religion is responsible for a lot of bad stuff. Religion was made to control, and the people in charge of it abuse their power. Morality through fear is not a solution. Intelligence and understanding should be the teachers of humanity. And how are people going to be intelligent or understanding without a fair chance in life? There's nowt as strange as folks. Jenny.

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