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RE: [Alug] Move over windows once and for all ??
by Ricardo Campos 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

>just > accepting of the fact that the world is full of dumbed-down users courtesy > of dumbed-down Redmond, users who need eye candy and pain-free installation > to consider switching and RedHat 7.2 is so far the closest to acheiving It's not just "dumbed-down users" (calling people "dumbed-down users" suggests that they are somehow ignorant, stupid or lazy, which may be true, but such statements tend to reinforce "Linux is elitist" views- sorry if I misunderstood your tone, but here I go).... <RANT> Also remember that the majority of users do not consider computers a 'hobby'. They simply want to sit at a computer, turn it on, send e-mails, browse some porn ;), download and print off digital camera pics, play a game etc, then go to the pub, look after the kids, go to work. Computers are now so commonplace that they are just tools. These people make up the majority of the Western World. (Well, Western Europe and North America). For example, I use a car. A car is fairly complex, and it would be a great idea to know how a car works. But I want to get in it, and drive to work. That is all. I do not want to get in it and realise that in fact I have to rebuild the engine because I bought my petrol from Jet not Esso (cos I thought it was the same stuff anyway). I want to use it. If cars interested me, which they do not in any way, I may wish to spend hours tinkering away. In which case I would buy a kit car anyway. Similarly, I do not want to tinker with my washing machine, mobile phone, TV, video, stereo or central heating. Perhaps idealistically I *should*, but come on, there's more interesting things in life. The real problem with the tinkering thing is that if you're using Linux for home use, your time is short (unless you do not have work, have kids, have other hobbies or a social life). That is not to devalue the disabled, or the unemployed, it is just a statement that most people do not have that circumstance, and the desktop market is for 'most people'. </RANT> So here's to easy installations, here's to linux distro's that can handle USB, the new Mega-wonder video cards, play whizz-bang games, all out of the box, and all after the initial installation! Let the people eat cake! (Of course, keep the server market obscure if the wages are higher because of it. I'll tinker away happily 9-5 if I'm getting paid for it!) :) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Move over windows once and for all ??
by MJ Ray 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

> With the really easy install of RH7.2 I wouldn't see a reinstall to upgrade > as a problem. When this machine (or elements of it) becomes my second box > I'd like to try Debian - sounds like even more fun. Indeed, if the install is really that easy (and I'm sceptical given the failed 7.2 upgrade reinstall I did before leaving UEA), it's not a huge impediment, but I'd still rather avoid unnecessary work. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Move over windows once and for all ??
by MJ Ray 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

> Having spent months getting into the nuts and bolts of Debian (which is > excellent - though not for the newbie - yet) and some 4 years as a linux > user generally, I have to say that with this release RedHat is so difficult > to beat. After half an hour we had a system up and running that I am still > miles away from with my Debian installation after months of messing. > In fact I'm going to dual boot to RedHat 7.2 myself now. > I would recommend to anyone out there considering giving Linux a go, spend > the tenner at cheep linux or get someone to burn you a copy - or even > support Red Hat and buy the boxed version, you too should be gobsmacked!! What are the particular problems that you are having with Debian? I'm quite prepared to set aside a little time to come and trouble-shoot it for you if it helps, or even just explain things by email if I have access to equivalent parts here. I suspect others are too. Debian is quite nice, but it's still (at 2.2r4) a case of knowing the right parts to install, as the preselected combinations aren't quite up there. Where RedHat still falls down, though, is at upgrade time. The lack of useful support systems for rpm (and indeed, I suspect that these are not possible because of the way rpm files are specified, but I don't have hard proof there) means that an upgrade seems to be effectively a reinstall. Debian is a lot harder to install, really, but you only install it once per machine, generally. -- MJR ,---------------------------------------------------- | Q. Do you need a net-based application developing, | or advice and training about web technology? | A. I suggest you try http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Colour printing under Linux
by Edenyard 26 Nov '01

26 Nov '01

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:04:52 +0000, Steve Fosdick wrote: > > I hope this isn't teaching grandmother to suck eggs but when > Oh, NO! Far from it! I need all the tuition on egg-sucking that I can get at the moment, especially with Linux. The points that you mentioned were all things that I hadn't considered, so they were all very much worth mentioning. So please carry on with teaching Grandma.... Regarding my complaint about crippled Turboprint - maybe it's just me being very mean. Perhaps I've been spoilt by the extremely open-handed attitude of all the Linux things I've fiddled with so far. Gerald.

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CD Writer Trouble
by Steve Fosdick 26 Nov '01

26 Nov '01

Hi All, I am having trouble with a CD writer, a Yamaha CRW2100S SCSI. Trying to write with this CD writer using cdrdao always aborts with an error at what appears to be the same location on the disk each time (07:52, somewhere in track 6 IIRC) . It does this whether in real write mode or in simulate mode. Trying to write with this CD writer using cdrecord always aborts with an error between track 1 and track 2. I have only tried this in simulate mode. So, the first thing I'd like to know is if people think this is hardware problem, or a compatibility problem between the drivers and the CDR unit? The only driver for cdrdao that seems to do anything useful with this CDR is the mmc-raw driver. When the problem occurs the following output is produced; Starting: cdrdao simulate --remote 7 -v0 --device 1,0,0 --driver generic-mmc-raw:0x0 --buffers 30 /tmp/tocvmhD6b ?: Input/output error. : scsi sendcmd: no error CDB: 2A 00 00 00 8A BC 00 00 1A 00 status: 0x2 (CHECK CONDITION) Sense Bytes: 70 00 06 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 29 00 00 00 Sense Key: 0x6 Unit Attention, Segment 0 Sense Code: 0x29 Qual 0x00 (power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred) Fru 0x0 Sense flags: Blk 0 (not valid) cmd finished after 2.879s timeout 20s ERROR: Write data failed. ERROR: Writing failed - buffer under run? ERROR: Simulation failed. And dmesg reports: sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 40x/40x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray VFS: Disk change detected on device sr(11,0) ncr53c810-0:0: ERROR (20:0) (8-28-0) (7/13) @ (script e7c:180008a0). ncr53c810-0: script cmd = 88080000 ncr53c810-0: regdump: da 10 80 13 47 07 00 1f 80 08 80 28 00 00 00 00. ncr53c810-0: have to clear fifos. ncr53c810-0-<0,*>: FAST-10 SCSI 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 7) For cdrecord, cdrecord seems to pick the mmc driver. The error message I get know from it is: cdrecord: Input/output error. read track info: scsi sendcmd: no error CDB: 52 01 00 00 00 FF 00 00 1C 00 status: 0x2 (CHECK CONDITION) Sense Bytes: 70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 24 00 00 00 Sense Key: 0x5 Illegal Request, Segment 0 Sense Code: 0x24 Qual 0x00 (invalid field in cdb) Fru 0x0 Sense flags: Blk 0 (not valid) cmd finished after 0.000s timeout 240s Steve.

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RE; [Alug] Colour Printing under Linux
by John Seago 25 Nov '01

25 Nov '01

Perhaps the answer may lie in using the Alien Package converter from: http://www.kitenet.net/programs/alien/ which purports to convert packages into acceptable formats for Stampede, Slackware, Debian, or RPM's. Not having used it I can't vouch for it's performance, it seems to be included in Mandrake 8.1 however, so it must work one way at least, or so one would presume. John Seago

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Wireless kit
by Martyn Drake 25 Nov '01

25 Nov '01

Hi folks, Can anybody recommend some cheapo wireless kit for a two machine home network. The "server" is a Red Hat 7.2 box with a USB ADSL modem hooked up with full IP masquerading and iptables firewall in place. The other machine is a laptop running Windows 2000. I'm thinking 3COM, but I'm sure they're going to be an expensive choice. Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Colour printing under Linux
by MJ Ray 25 Nov '01

25 Nov '01

Steve Fosdick: > On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:45:04 Edenyard wrote: > > Have you actually ever installed CUPS? I first of all tried Yes. I didn't like it and removed it. It was far too much of an "all in one and don't ask what goes on inside" solution for me. > [...] When you convert the > rpm to a tgz that isn't going to happen - you'll get the files > installed on the filesystem but no setup done. If the tgz is a slackware package, this isn't true. Of course, there are many differences between RH and slackware that may trip it up, as you correctly note. > It's up to the writer(s) of Turboprint if they give you > the source code or if they demand money to use the software. > It's up to you if you accept their conditions or choose > something else. Something else! Something else! ;-) Actually, if you get the source under a Free licence and it's being a troublesome printer, it may well be worth paying them. -- MJR

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Owen can't make Sundays meeting
by Adam Bower 25 Nov '01

25 Nov '01

Hi people, I spoke to Owen briefly yesterday afternoon and he has asked me to tell the list that he will not be able to make the meeting on Sunday and therefore there will be no talk on IPC. He has told me that he will do the talk sometime in the future, the reason that he can't come is because of some personal commitments. As for my talk on Debian, I don't currently have either a phoneline or computer in my current home in London so any chance of doing anything Debian related is not so easy. I am hoping to move out soon and get to a broadband serviced area though so things will (hopefully) be resolved then and I will then work on getting a talk together for next year. The reason above BTW is why I have not been active on list for some time as I can't get ssh out and don't have a linux box yet (I got the goahead on Friday for a linux firewall/ipmasq/fileserver/mailserver/whatever... box) so should be back on list soon. Adam -- Adam "a funny thing about regret is, that it's better to regret something you have done, than to regret something you haven't done"

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Re: [Alug] Colour printing under Linux
by Edenyard 25 Nov '01

25 Nov '01

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:51:01 +0000, MJ Ray wrote: > Yep. Use gimp-print drivers for CUPS, ghostscript or the GIMP if your > printer is supported. I hear the latest debians have the ghostscript > drivers as standard. > Have you actually ever installed CUPS? I first of all tried using the version that came with the cover CD on Linux-Format mag. That installed and ran, but it only had a selection of about a dozen drivers, which (I gather from reading the documentation) were only intended as 'sample' drivers. When I went through the ghastly experience of installing Mandrake 8, I noticed that this had CUPS installed also, but had stacks and stacks of drivers, including something called 'DJ930C foomatic+stp-4.1.5(GIMP-Print)', which seemed to give better results than anything else with my 930C printer. Since I managed to find the relevant .ppd file buried in Mandrake, I thought that it would be a simple matter to copy the ppd file over to Slack and the Linux-Format version of CUPS. No such luck. The file was there in the index (once I'd restarted CUPS) but it wouldn't print at all. Then I removed that version of CUPS from Slack and tried installing the Mandrake .rpms (having converted them to .tgz) but that was a complete disaster. Sure, lots and lots of drivers now listed, but NONE of them would produce a test print. I'm quite happy to accept that my intelligence is below normal for this sort of thing, but I've found the whole CUPS experience frustrating in the extreme so far. Today I found Turboprint after a search on Google.com. I didn't hold out a lot of hope, given my success to date, but I've managed to get it to work with the standard lpr that comes with Slackware and the colour photos that I've been getting today from it are as good as any I've had thus far. Best of all, I'm now free of Mandrake! The only down-side to Turboprint is that it's crippled shareware, i.e., it prints a big 'this is turboprint' sort of banner across the colour pictures. I didn't think that that sort of thing was acceptable under Linux? I'd be very interested to hear how other people have got on with this kind of thing. Gerald.

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