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Re: [Alug] How to find people with Linux skills
by Adam Bower 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

>I've asked you nicely, twice, but now I'm cross. > >Please stop spamming this list or I'll escalate it to your ISP. Demon >take a very dim view of spamming... Well Laurie if you had taken the time to look at FAQ which is at http://www.alug.org.uk/articles/2001a/alugfaq.html and under the section headed "Is advertising permitted on the list?" you will see that Gavin is fine and within what is allowed. Also I would like to point out that before Gavins first post to the list he emailed me to make sure it was ok and I told him it was only if he kept within the guidelines which he has done. Adam Bower (apologies for using snotmail btw, but i have legitmate reasons....) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: [Alug] How to find people with Linux skills
by Gavin Smith 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

This is the last time I will post. I'm not interested in getting into any sort of slanging match so I apoligise for the overly long signature in my last email. I shan't be posting again. The first time I posted I actually asked whether it was OK to do so. The answer was yes. The second time I posted was to correct the first (I have posted a non- In defence of your comments about Best. Yes we are members of ATSCO (as are a number of other agencies) but we don't support IR35 in any way. In fact we are one of only a handful of companies that are able to provide a project based contract that as far it can be is "IR35 proof". It amazes me that the government seem to have managed to get contractors and agents fighting each other when we should be fighting them. I'm sure there are people who are not happy with the service we have provided them, equally I can provide you with testimonials of people who are. We could probably argue these points ad nauseum. That's enough from me. Gavin > -----Original Message----- > From: Laurie Brown [SMTP:laurie@brownowl.com] > Sent: 28 November 2001 09:18 > To: MJ Ray > Cc: Gavin Smith; ALUG List > Subject: Re: [Alug] How to find people with Linux skills > > MJ Ray wrote: > > > Laurie Brown wrote: > > > >>Gavin Smith wrote: > >> > >>>Where would you go to look for a new job (any suggestions greatfully > >>>received). > >>> > >>I've asked you nicely, twice, but now I'm cross. > >>Please stop spamming this list or I'll escalate it to your ISP. Demon > >>take a very dim view of spamming... > >> > > > > Laurie, I think that's a bit harsh. This time he was only asking for > where > > he should advertise, really. I don't have a problem with that and, > > personally, I'd be quite interested to know how people are getting jobs > > right now. Are recruitment agencies still worthwhile? > > > > However, what I do have a problem with is that *huge* signature which > breaks > > all known conventions, obeys no known standards and has no legal effect > > whatsoever. Gavin, if you post again, please do it without the sig. > > You may (perhaps fairly) think it's a bit harsh, but this is at least > the third time he's done this, and I've asked him to stop twice (which > he both failed to acknowledge, and ignored). Especially given its > precedents, it *is* spam, however relevant it may be to any particular > reader. Further, Best International are members of ATSCO, and as any > member of the PCG knows, not only supporters of IR35, but as members > of ATSCO, they are acting in the worst interests of contractors (qv. > statements from the ATSCO chairman passim). A cruise through the > private fora in the PCG will show that Best are in fact misnamed... > Consequently, I am unable to find any room for compromise. > > Of course, I'll go with the flow if my views are held to be wide of > the majority, and quietly fume. > > Cheers, Laurie. > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Laurie Brown > laurie(a)brownowl.com > PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- **************************************************************************************** Official winners of the UK IT Recruitment Service of the Year Computing Awards for Excellence 2000 Official winners of the Network Recruitment Consultancy of the Year Networking Industry Awards 2001 Best International Group Plc Registered in England No. 3246014 London (Head Office) +44 (0)20 7300 9000 Bristol +44 (0)117 945 9000 Birmingham +44 (0)121 335 9000 Manchester +44 (0)161 942 9000 Scotland +44 (0)131 524 9000 This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any representations (contractual or otherwise), views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Best International Group, or any of its group companies. If you are not the intended recipient be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ****************************************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] How to find people with Linux skills
by MJ Ray 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

Laurie Brown wrote: > Gavin Smith wrote: > > Where would you go to look for a new job (any suggestions greatfully > > received). > I've asked you nicely, twice, but now I'm cross. > Please stop spamming this list or I'll escalate it to your ISP. Demon > take a very dim view of spamming... Laurie, I think that's a bit harsh. This time he was only asking for where he should advertise, really. I don't have a problem with that and, personally, I'd be quite interested to know how people are getting jobs right now. Are recruitment agencies still worthwhile? However, what I do have a problem with is that *huge* signature which breaks all known conventions, obeys no known standards and has no legal effect whatsoever. Gavin, if you post again, please do it without the sig. -- MJR Anglian LUG http://www.alug.org.uk/ No ePatents http://petition.eurolinux.org/ FSF Europe http://www.fsfeurope.org/

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Move over windows once and for all ??
by Earl Brannigan 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

Hi all, Sorry if this is probably best posted on the social list. Linux on the desktop as a serious contender to M$ is now a reality - IMHO. What has been holding Linux back on the desktop is the learning curve required to install and get it up and running - which is often seen as a major problem to the newbie, together with the availability of the necessary hardware drivers. Well - after nagging a friend of mine for months (a retired headmaster) who was always having problems with his win98 setup - he finally agreed to have a dual boot machine with Linux on to 'try it out'. So we ordered Red Hat 7.2 from cheep linux (first point scored - price : £9.99!!) And off we went to install it onto his second (spare) hard drive. The installer auto-detected everything (Soundblaster 128 PCI Soundcard, Diamond Stealth graphics, even the Hansol Monitor). Within 1/2 an hour we had a beautiful looking 1024/768 GNome/KDE/FVWM/Enlightenment Desktop (second point scored : choices-choices), playing midi files through Timidity, ripping CDs to MP3 with GRIP, KOffice etc etc. He was gobsmacked!! Grub is an excellent bootloader, the highlighted list of installed OSes makes even the simple LILO prompt idiot-proof. The only problem (albeit predictable) was that the PCI Modem (a motorola something or other) wasn't detected. Haven't looked into this one yet but it may be a winmodem or there may be a driver for it. Of course the old caveat still applies - and will for some time - use an external modem or one which you know works under linux. The best moment of the entire evening however was that after rebooting to Windows, (He had to see that Windows hadn't been broken) his first comment was how naff the Win98 desktop actually looked!!(Game Set and Match : Linux LOOKS BETTER). Having spent months getting into the nuts and bolts of Debian (which is excellent - though not for the newbie - yet) and some 4 years as a linux user generally, I have to say that with this release RedHat is so difficult to beat. After half an hour we had a system up and running that I am still miles away from with my Debian installation after months of messing. In fact I'm going to dual boot to RedHat 7.2 myself now. I would recommend to anyone out there considering giving Linux a go, spend the tenner at cheep linux or get someone to burn you a copy - or even support Red Hat and buy the boxed version, you too should be gobsmacked!! Cheers Earl [earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk] www.lindenhouse.co.uk Intellectual : Someone who can spend a whole day locked in a room with a tea cosy without once thinking of trying it on. Highbrow : Someone who can listen to the entire William Tell Overture without once thinking of the Lone Ranger.

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RE: [Alug] Move over windows once and for all ??
by Ricardo Campos 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

> Hi Ricardo, > Excellent post. That's good, after I sent it I thought "Oh sh*t I hope I don't start a flame war!". It's coming from the perspective from someone who (occasionally, very very occasionally) works on his linux setup rather than go to the pub.Well, I did once, anyway. ;-) I also spent some time unemployed which is when I first started using Redhat 6.1 - which was suggested to me by my friend who is housebound (and now actually bedridden) due to lung disease. We both had the time and the inclination, but we had both been "Windoze power users" -an oxymoron perhaps! I was talking to Mark Ray about this ease-of-use issue on Sunday (after an installation of X failed on my debian HD)- there's a real problem with hardware vendors not releasing driver details- it really holds up the install and applications as well. There are plenty of talented programmers who would write drivers, if hardware vendors would only release the specs. I have the outmost respect for the dedication and skill of Linux developers. It's not mean task! Hopefully- somehow- we'll get there. (And hopefully installing and upgrading WILL be a simply, quick task for all Linux users). :) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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How to find people with Linux skills
by Gavin Smith 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

I hope someone in your group will be able to help me. I need to recruit software engineers with Linux skills for a client in East Anglia. I've tried all the more obvious solutions, jobserve, jobsite etc. Where would you go to look for a new job (any suggestions greatfully received). Gavin Smith **************************************************************************************** Official winners of the UK IT Recruitment Service of the Year Computing Awards for Excellence 2000 Official winners of the Network Recruitment Consultancy of the Year Networking Industry Awards 2001 Best International Group Plc Registered in England No. 3246014 London (Head Office) +44 (0)20 7300 9000 Bristol +44 (0)117 945 9000 Birmingham +44 (0)121 335 9000 Manchester +44 (0)161 942 9000 Scotland +44 (0)131 524 9000 This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any representations (contractual or otherwise), views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Best International Group, or any of its group companies. If you are not the intended recipient be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ****************************************************************************************

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RE: [Alug] Move over windows once and for all ??
by Ricardo Campos 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

>just > accepting of the fact that the world is full of dumbed-down users courtesy > of dumbed-down Redmond, users who need eye candy and pain-free installation > to consider switching and RedHat 7.2 is so far the closest to acheiving It's not just "dumbed-down users" (calling people "dumbed-down users" suggests that they are somehow ignorant, stupid or lazy, which may be true, but such statements tend to reinforce "Linux is elitist" views- sorry if I misunderstood your tone, but here I go).... <RANT> Also remember that the majority of users do not consider computers a 'hobby'. They simply want to sit at a computer, turn it on, send e-mails, browse some porn ;), download and print off digital camera pics, play a game etc, then go to the pub, look after the kids, go to work. Computers are now so commonplace that they are just tools. These people make up the majority of the Western World. (Well, Western Europe and North America). For example, I use a car. A car is fairly complex, and it would be a great idea to know how a car works. But I want to get in it, and drive to work. That is all. I do not want to get in it and realise that in fact I have to rebuild the engine because I bought my petrol from Jet not Esso (cos I thought it was the same stuff anyway). I want to use it. If cars interested me, which they do not in any way, I may wish to spend hours tinkering away. In which case I would buy a kit car anyway. Similarly, I do not want to tinker with my washing machine, mobile phone, TV, video, stereo or central heating. Perhaps idealistically I *should*, but come on, there's more interesting things in life. The real problem with the tinkering thing is that if you're using Linux for home use, your time is short (unless you do not have work, have kids, have other hobbies or a social life). That is not to devalue the disabled, or the unemployed, it is just a statement that most people do not have that circumstance, and the desktop market is for 'most people'. </RANT> So here's to easy installations, here's to linux distro's that can handle USB, the new Mega-wonder video cards, play whizz-bang games, all out of the box, and all after the initial installation! Let the people eat cake! (Of course, keep the server market obscure if the wages are higher because of it. I'll tinker away happily 9-5 if I'm getting paid for it!) :) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Move over windows once and for all ??
by MJ Ray 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

> With the really easy install of RH7.2 I wouldn't see a reinstall to upgrade > as a problem. When this machine (or elements of it) becomes my second box > I'd like to try Debian - sounds like even more fun. Indeed, if the install is really that easy (and I'm sceptical given the failed 7.2 upgrade reinstall I did before leaving UEA), it's not a huge impediment, but I'd still rather avoid unnecessary work. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Move over windows once and for all ??
by MJ Ray 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

> Having spent months getting into the nuts and bolts of Debian (which is > excellent - though not for the newbie - yet) and some 4 years as a linux > user generally, I have to say that with this release RedHat is so difficult > to beat. After half an hour we had a system up and running that I am still > miles away from with my Debian installation after months of messing. > In fact I'm going to dual boot to RedHat 7.2 myself now. > I would recommend to anyone out there considering giving Linux a go, spend > the tenner at cheep linux or get someone to burn you a copy - or even > support Red Hat and buy the boxed version, you too should be gobsmacked!! What are the particular problems that you are having with Debian? I'm quite prepared to set aside a little time to come and trouble-shoot it for you if it helps, or even just explain things by email if I have access to equivalent parts here. I suspect others are too. Debian is quite nice, but it's still (at 2.2r4) a case of knowing the right parts to install, as the preselected combinations aren't quite up there. Where RedHat still falls down, though, is at upgrade time. The lack of useful support systems for rpm (and indeed, I suspect that these are not possible because of the way rpm files are specified, but I don't have hard proof there) means that an upgrade seems to be effectively a reinstall. Debian is a lot harder to install, really, but you only install it once per machine, generally. -- MJR ,---------------------------------------------------- | Q. Do you need a net-based application developing, | or advice and training about web technology? | A. I suggest you try http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Colour printing under Linux
by Edenyard 26 Nov '01

26 Nov '01

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:04:52 +0000, Steve Fosdick wrote: > > I hope this isn't teaching grandmother to suck eggs but when > Oh, NO! Far from it! I need all the tuition on egg-sucking that I can get at the moment, especially with Linux. The points that you mentioned were all things that I hadn't considered, so they were all very much worth mentioning. So please carry on with teaching Grandma.... Regarding my complaint about crippled Turboprint - maybe it's just me being very mean. Perhaps I've been spoilt by the extremely open-handed attitude of all the Linux things I've fiddled with so far. Gerald.

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