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Given the talk of lurkers...
by Owain Sutton 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

....thought I'd introduce myself New to Linux, arriving here for various reasons, but the main one is being unable to trust MS with anything remotely secure.... Desperatly wishing I could claim that OpenOffice is better than MS Office, but I can't, sorry. Internet Explorer, on the other hand, deserved retirement a long time ago. In short, I guess I'm hoping that a dual boot box will give me the best of both worlds in the short and medium term (yes, unfortunately there's some software I need which is Windows-only). Anyway, that's my ambivalent position stated :D ....btw count me out of most meetings, because Woodbridge without a car is not fun :S

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Fedora - what's in a name?
by Ben Francis 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

It seems RedHat didn't do their research very well when choosing a name for their new project. Is this going to cause any serious problems? http://www.fedora.info/fedora.shtml Building their brand could be quite difficult when it happens to be someone elses... -- Ben "tola" Francis 00101010 tola ^/. http://hippygeek.co.uk mailto://tola_at_imen.org.uk opinions expressed are of the voices in my head only

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Re: [ALUG] Names and topics
by Edenyard 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

MJR wrote: > > I want the lurkers to speak up. We have 250 addresses getting copies > of this. Even if we assume that all the meeting venues get different > people (definitely untrue IMO), that means we only see about three > dozen of them to talk with. How do we get the other seven-eighths > involved? > Alright, then! I didn't think I had anything useful to add to this thread, but because MJR wrote the above and I have a lot of respect for what he writes, I'll attempt to add in my tuppence. Why don't 'the others' get involved? I can only share my experiences. I run a Linux system, from which I have learnt a lot but I've only scratched the surface, as things go, and I still need lots of help. One area in which I really do need help just now is in getting a good video card. I posted a message about this and, when I saw all those digests waiting to be read earlier today, I felt sure that the answer to my question would be in there. But no! Nothing! What? Does nobody else on this list use a video card? Or have I not used the correct incantation to get a response? So how come no-one had ANYTHING to say on this subject? Now this isn't, by any means, the first time I've had this experience on this list. Maybe I'm not alone (I'll assume that I'm not singled out for this treatment), so if others have had this experience with ALUG (or any LUG, really), then maybe it's not so surprising that lots of would-be members don't participate as much as would be desired. Right - I suppose you'll want to excommunicate me after that contribution.... Cheers, Gerald.

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Re: Jamming the network
by Christopher Dawkins 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

>> And to ask you who else has come across the danger to corporate >> networks posed by the convenience of auto-crossover ports. > I had this at a middle school I do work for, One little darling student > did exactly this. <snip> > It is annoying that such a thing can happen, but to be honest it's no > worse than in the old days of a missing t-piece or a cable fault, > bringing down a whole coax lan. True, those were the days. But the Base-T system has been so comparatively rock-solid reliable and proof against all the problems we used to have that it has been a shock to find that it is so easily compromised. And the problem has only arisen with the more recent equipment! > You should be using spanning tree protocol (sometimes called spamming > tree protocol when it breaks) which should allow these kind of redundant > links that you are creating. Indeed redundant links should be/are a good > thing. Yes, redundant links are, I am building up a number, and I have looked at STP. The main reason I haven't used it is that I prefer the idea of subnets, routed, RIP and routers instead: routers based on multi-port FreeBSD boxes. I don't see how STP (or subnets) cure this switch-jamming problem, except that the more intelligent the device the more capable it is of preventing the jam from spreading back onto the network spine. However, we have some quite large (multi-building) branches containing hundreds of outlets that are all within the same easily-jammed area. Luckily I don't yet have a large number of auto MDI/MDIX switches and am hoping to obtain more older models, which are immune to this problem because normal users don't possess crossover leads. -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd(a)felsted.essex.sch.uk

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Enticement, was: Names and topics
by MJ Ray 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

On 2003-11-29 11:45:57 +0000 Chris Walker <linux(a)wymondham.demon.co.uk> wrote: > I'm already committed to other meetings on Thursdays so that's why > this > lurker doesn't attend them. I think we've been trying hard to scatter the days. Ely (might be trains there from Wymondham if you like beer) and K.Lynn have been on Tuesdays and Wednesdays so far. Sunday afternoon meetings are being planned further ahead to give people more notice (thanks to Syd and John). Is there something more we can do to make it more attractive? ("No" is fine as an honest answer IMO.) -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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Kmail & spam
by Nick Daniels 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

Hi All the spam I receive is addressed to xyzy(a)freeserve.co.uk not as above I have configured Kmail pop filters to- If to contains xyzy-delete on server but it takes no notice. I basically do not want to download it -Is it me being stupid? Regards Nick

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Pissup in a Brewery
by Daniel Silverstone 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Hi, I'm organising a party to go on a tour of the Milton Brewery. There are 15 spaces on the tour, five are already allocated, leaving 10 up for grabs. It's £10 per head and we expect the visit to be in early January on a weekday evening. Fridays (and Thursdays) are most busy for the brewery, but if I can get a 15 strong interest, we can see what we can get. Wednesdays seem a possibility for many people. Milton is not near a train station, but there will be some people driving out of Cambridge and Ely to get there (yes, some non-drinkers have booked in already) so lifts may be available. Anyone interested enough to have their name down on the list should mail me privately. I'll subscribe you to the private discussion list we have, and put your name on the website http://users.pepperfish.net/dsilvers/pissup.html We do need to get the decision made by mid December ideally, so please get your dibs in fast. D. -- Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)digital-scurf.org> Digital-Scurf

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Linux
by Stan Fraser 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Has anyone seen the "Linux" Desk lamp in British Home Stores just the gift for Guy or Gal who has everything Regards Stan

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Choice of video card
by Edenyard 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable video card that would work on a Slackware 9.1 Athlon 1GHz system with kernel 2.4.22 and X version 4.3.0? The card is wanted for playing DVDs on and must have an output of some sort suitable for sending to a standard 625-line PAL (or RGB) TV system. I know that there are tons of cards out there, but I'm concerned about getting one that is WELL supported by Linux. Also, is there any reason to choose AGP over PCI, given the use to which it will be put? Thanks for any pointers! Gerald.

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Lurking
by Christopher Dawkins 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

>> I want the lurkers to speak up. > > I'm an inveterate lurker ... > I have never been to a meeting as, generally, they are too far away .. > I'm a lurker (well for a while), but mainly can't make meetings ... Me too. But once spoken up, we've broken cover and are no longer lurkers. However, we must occasionally pop up to thank the active people for all their advice and comments. I've been lurking here (and in many other places) for a few years and it's all been very useful even if am often forced by other pressures to skim or delete the digests I get. This list is very useful to me and, I am sure, to many of the other 200 inactive subscribers. Please keep it going and when we can we'll contribute. A minor reason I lurk is that we are here entirely FreeBSD based. Not Linux, but the same in most respects. Another is that I feel too busy (I know that applies to everyone). A third is that I am on the southern fringe of your geographical area. Anyway, I post now because I have just made what I feel is a critical, though non-Linux, discovery: see last half of message. > Send out an annual resubscribe to non-posters, with two monthly > reminders before removal? Too much effort, unless the copies are costing you money. > One or two may be lost, but are they benefitting anyway? Yes, most of us lurkers are benefitting. > Don't want to accidentaly unsubscribe people if we can help it. Good. > My thanks to Brett and Adam on this one. I don't care what the group calls > itself if I can get such instant, high-quality advice at a moment's notice. Hear, hear. > It's a hard life for a bear of little brain. Exactly. ================= here's the meat ================= Discovery: I don't know how many of you run a network of machines. Five, ten, fifty or the five hundred we have here? Well, we have things called hubs, and things called switches, and things called routers (which are based on FreeBSD boxes with multiple interfaces). Some of our switches are intelligent or managed, but we don't manage them, being half a dozen makes (whichever was cheapest at the time) it's difficult keeping track of all the different management methods, and anyway most of that sort came with CDs that don't run on FreeBSD so they sit on the shelf. Anyway, consider our switches. Each has one incoming port, maybe seven or fifteen or twenty-three outgoing ones. Feeding rows of RJ45 outlets through miles of Cat-5 cabling. These feed client machines through drop leads. The RJ-45 outlets are often arranged in pairs, as a pair fits nicely in a single-outlet box. You have the picture? Fairly common, I think. It all works very well. Very much more resistant to lightning than our Econet system was (we still run Econet, BTW). Doesn't work when the mains power is off, common in this country environment (indeed, we've had eleven power cuts in eleven months) and there's also trip switches that go off from time to time. But that's not the problem. The system works well on a 24/365 basis. But - there's a problem. Suppose you see a drop lead hanging from an outlet cos the user has gone off with his or her portable, isn't it nice and tidy to plug the free end into the adjacent outlet? It is, and it generally causes no trouble. But they now make better switches. Remember the old ones - you press the little button for the input lead, cos to connect two of these hubs or switches together you need a reversed lead or a reversed port? The new ones have auto MDX/MDIX on them, so you don't need reversed leads any more. Just plug them together with straight leads, and they'll work. Very convenient, although in practice you rarely needed reversed leads anyway. So - have you tried shorting any two outlets together, as in the "tidy-the-lead" scenario above? No? Try it. If your network has no broadcasts on it, you may be OK. But if there's a broadcast, it'll go out one port and in the other, then out again, and again, and again. This broadcast storm will feed its way up your network till it all comes to a glutinous halt, until blocked by am intelligent switch or router. We've had a few of these halts. We eliminated the switch responsible. But we've now determined that there was nothing wrong with the switch. It was just too intelligent, in that it had auto MDX/MDIX. But not intelligent enough, in that it caused broadcast storms if two ports were shorted. We never had the problem before (that is, before 13 months ago), because with the older switches you needed a crossover lead to do the damage. With the newer ones, all you need is a normal drop lead and a yen for tidiness. ===== well, that's the discovery. Now for the rant ========= The entire Base-T Cat-5 RJ45 system is powerful, flexible and convenient. But how could they possibly have designed it so that it can be brought down so easily by any tidy end-user? ============= OK, OK ======================================= I know we can sort it out in various ways. I am told that configuring DEVICE_POLLING in the kernels will protect our routers and servers by polling the network cards instead of allowing them to interrupt. But my immediate reaction is to source simpler switches, those without auto-MDX/MDIX. Unfortunately, these are becoming rare beasts now. And to ask you who else has come across the danger to corporate networks posed by the convenience of auto-crossover ports. -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd(a)felsted.essex.sch.uk

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