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Re: [Alug] backup loop
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 26 Jul '01

26 Jul '01

Alexis said: >(who's had plenty of fun with cron before...) Ah! I also am surprised that the file didn't simply replace itself, why did it build up to size 33241453? crontab now changed to 0 12 * * * /home/jenny/backups 10 12 * * * /root/mainbak Fun and games today - just had to deal with first 1st aid casualty since finishing course a few months back, as a guy got a sheet of metal racking drop on his head. Thanks all, Jenny.

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backup loop
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 26 Jul '01

26 Jul '01

'Lo All, I appear to have sent my box into a timewarp of some kind. I set crontab to run my newly created backup file with * 12 * * * /home/jenny/backups the contents of /home/jenny/backups are if [ -d /home/jenny/cwp/ ]; then tar -czf /backup/cwpbak.tar.gz /home/jenny/cwp/ fi if [ -d /home/jenny/ ]; then tar -czf /backup/jen.tar.gz /home/jenny/ fi (I'm doing the dir and the sub dir as the contents of /cwp are shortly to be moved elsewhere) This set off as it should, and, wow, the entire computer has gone bonkers. tty0 has reams of computer generated code crunching away like mad, and, on logging in to tty1 (which took a good 20 secs) ps -aux shows masses of extra stuff, for example gzip and the above tar command seem to be running lots of times. Goes up to number 1253. I've tried a CTRL-C and have a nice white message saying "interrupted" but it still is crunching away. I'm about to do a reboot, hopefully that'll sort it out, but can anyone tell me *why* it did this? When I ran the command in there from a cli it executed fine. Jen ("Alarmed" of Burwell) ps. It is now taking 8 years to shut down. :-( Ah - message: " VFS: file-max limit 4096 reached". Oops. No wonder. I'm starting to suspect the * 12 * * *................)

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test message
by Brett Parker 25 Jul '01

25 Jul '01

Well, read the subject, I've just changed e-mail address and changed all my subscription details, so now I'm testing to see if it all works as it should ;) Cheers, Brett

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Re :More on .Net (ashleyt.howes)
by Earl Brannigan 25 Jul '01

25 Jul '01

Hi Ashley, > > Based on recent discussions on this list about .Net, I though I would share > an article on use.perl.org: > Cheers, quick and specific read. Pretty much confirms what I'd thought all along, .NET is nothing new but a hodge-podge of existing ideas/technologies. M$ Have never innovated a single thing, why should they start now ? Cheers Earl

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Re: [Alug] Bascule
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 24 Jul '01

24 Jul '01

MJRay wrote> >There's no originality in nicknames these days. Even if i call myself Euphrasia Bartleflock? Does anyone recall the subject on iRC of finding how many words you can make from mrsbarrett using grep? The final command i tried was something similar to grep -Ei "^[mrsbarrett]+$" /usr/dict/words (I have it at home, so that is from memory) This did the job, but it used all the letters as often as it pleased. Can we make it so it only uses each letter in the pattern once? Euphrasia

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Next meeting
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 24 Jul '01

24 Jul '01

Hi all, could anyone likely to be coming to the bbq (5pm +) on the 12th send me the following details? We'll then keep it off-list but will be able to suss out how much food to get in. Ta Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com - Name - coming to meeting 12/7 - staying for bbq - will bring food (specify) - have a portable bbq to bring if necessary - have large awning (joke)

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RE: [Alug] Phreaked out
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 24 Jul '01

24 Jul '01

Darren wrote: >I am in Essex, but there doesn't seem to be any decent groups near by so >guess I will be joining you guys soon if you will have me :) Ola. Next meeting coming up 12 Aug near Ipswich, incorporating Geek BBQ, if you are up for that. Jen.

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Phreaked out
by David Freeman 24 Jul '01

24 Jul '01

Following adams suggestion of watching "The secret History of hacking" I was intreagued enough to watch, I was amazed that the program was actually quite good, it didn't just cover the basic Haxor prats but covered alot of stuff I didn't know like the Home brew computing club etc... I was pleasently surprised by this program. What did others think? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Maximum linux mag..
by pbit 24 Jul '01

24 Jul '01

Haven`t been keeping-up with all the postings to alug, but I was wondering if anyone has mentioned that `Maximum Linux` has been taken out of publication. Please will people sign the petition at : http://www.petitiononline.com/maxlinux/petition.html thanks..

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Placement
by David Freeman 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

All, I have recently resigned my Job at BT to take up a place on a course at University of Kent at Canterbury. I am going to study Computer Systems Engineering. I know its a year away, but does any one work for a company which does summer placements for students? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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RE: [Alug] Maximum linux mag..
by Earl Brannigan 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

Cheers Paul, >...Future Publishing group that produce Linux > Format. I didn't recall that it was a 'Future' pub (at least not on the copy that I was looking at the other day - the first).I'll have to check this when I get home tonight, it may have changed hands. You'll be missing it then ? The first copy had an excellent graphic of a rather mean looking Tux smashing through a Windows Icon (you know the floaty window thingy) with the title along the lines of : "Move over Windows... Linux is taking over because its more stable, supported..." and other stuff. Inside the articles were mainly about why Linux is better, it was a real M$ Bash. With a cute little story at the end of some girlie who had given a new lease of life to her old 486 by installing Linux. Well there you have it, I'll probably sign the petition anyways. Cheers Earl

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Maximum linux mag..
by Earl Brannigan 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

Hi, ByeBye Max Linux. Too many mags on the shelves, loads of info available anyways. This is part of the usual shakedowns that occur as any new market beds down. Bought one copy (maybe 2) quite liked it because it was soooooo anti M$ (though the publishers do punt some very pro-M$ mags as well). Linux Magazine and Linux Format have proved to be better sources if info for me over the past few months or so. I never subscribe to these things anyways, just browse them at newsagents and buy if I need, usually about 1 in 3 issues is of interest. Sorry to see it go, but that's the world of hard headed commerce I'm afraid. Cheers Earl

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Konquerer Web Browser settings
by John Seago 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

Can anyone tell what settings to put in under the appearance tab of Konquerer web Browser in order to get readable text please? John Seago

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Bash script help please!
by bsamuels＠datamansys.co.uk 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

Is it possible to compare the sizes of two files from within a Bash script? I don't need to know the actual sizes just which one is the bigger file. I can't find anything useful in the Bash man page. Barry Samuels

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Re: [Alug] cron job
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

Thanks everyone! I'm eagerly waiting till 3 pm to see if it works. Andrew Glover wrote: >> if [ -f /home/jenny/cwp/ ]; then >if [ -d /home/jenny/cwp/ ]; then Ah! I wondered what the -f was. Ta. Adam Bower wrote: >tar -czf /backups/cwpbak.tar.gz /home/jenny/cwp/ Missed out the gz. Damn.And the wrong way round! Thanks Adam I've left the o-reilly bible at home this week, it's a hassle to transport between home and work on the bike, could do with two copies really. Shall I share my awful moment with you all? Trying to find the right command to copy a directory to another directory, I went to clear the second directory for a second try. So i typed in rm -r ./* Except - you've guessed what i omitted in my haste - the full stop. Ohmygod. Luckily for me I was not superuser and the puzzled linuxbox asked me if I was sure i wanted to delete Games or something, at which point i woke up and lunged for the kill button. As if i haven't read in my O'R book to sit on my hands when i type a command for this very reason? Hee hee. I'm still pale and shaking. Anyone else ever done this? Jenny.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Watch as your apache logs grow!
by Brett Parker 23 Jul '01

23 Jul '01

Hi all, Everyone musta heard by now about the nice new IIS worm that, once its got the IIS server, attacks whitehouse.gov. Have a look in your apache logs and see how many times they've tried to attack you... brett@dustpuppy:/var/log/apache$ grep "default.ida" access.log | wc -l 25 and that's on a 33.6 dialup machine ;) Cheers, Brett

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Winmodems
by Christopher Drane 21 Jul '01

21 Jul '01

Has anyone had any joy getting a winmodem to work with linux, or know how I could set up mine to work Lucent LT Winmodem I have been trying to get it to work on a Packard Bell Easy One Dc Laptop. I was would much rather have the internal modem working, don't want to buy a new one. I am running Mandrake 8.0 Any help would be appreciated Chris Drane

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TV program 8pm Sunday
by Adam Bower 21 Jul '01

21 Jul '01

Hi all, This is slightly off topic but may form the basis for some good discussion over the next few days. Tomorrow night (Sunday) at 8pm on Channel 4 there is a program titled "The Secret history of hacking" now this appears to mean hacking in the sense of l33t h4X00r D00D5 and not in the sense of Linus Torvalds and Alan Cox type hacking. Oh well looking forward to seeing if its crap or not...... Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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When's the next meeting at the UEA?
by Steve Kuo 21 Jul '01

21 Jul '01

When's the next meeting at the UEA? ===== --------------- Steve Kuo "How can we claim to be an advanced and civilized society when no other creatures on Earth develops technology to blow themselves up three times over?" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [Alug] locale
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 21 Jul '01

21 Jul '01

Indeed... the country is the UK... but the iso-whatever lists the country code as GB.... in fact all the .uk domains used to be aliases from .gb My old Uni email address of chanaa(a)sx.ac.uk could also be chanaa(a)sx.ac.gb!!! Mind you chanaa(a)uk.ac.sx would also work on JANET!! A> MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> on 19/07/2001 22:34:56 To: Andrew.Chandler(a)ftid.com cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] locale RFC822 message headers Andrew.Chandler(a)ftid.com writes: > Just one of those strange things about our country - we are the UK > but for some purposes we have to be GB? Like at the Olympics etc. I think it's something like ISO says GB, but reality often says UK. Sometimes reality beats a standard. _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Re: [Alug] Ow! MS strikes out against cross-platform?
by MJ Ray 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > > > (That's the new technology bit. It's innovation.) > > Not our innovation. That's the point I was making: why are we trying > > to implement theirs ahead of our own? > Oh, that's just daft. Talk about "Not Invented Here". If it's good, use > it. If it's not, don't. NIH has nothing to do with this. If it's proven to be good, then use it and shout about it from the rooftops. There's not even much harm with quietly exploring implementation for ourselves. Until then, we've got our own innovations to promote and shouldn't be wasting our energy doing their marketing department's work for them. > > Making a big noise before these projects have started is just > > *begging* to be knocked back. > For sure, but look how much noise the Gnome and KDE lot make. And look at the lumps Gnome took for too much PR too early. KDE were actually quite quiet until they had something half-working. Gnustep are like church mice just now. > [...] I think that along with Open Source should be an open mind -- > all too often people tend to discard good ideas just because they > came from dubious sources. No, dubious licensing. That viral shared source licence is a really nasty trick, I think. I also care more about Freedom than Openness. > If Microsoft is making a noise about > something that we've all been doing in similar ways for years, or > making a noise about some fantastic new innovation, why not steal > their thunder by offering an Open Source alternative? Why not, indeed?

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Re: [Alug] Ow! MS strikes out against cross-platform?
by MJ Ray 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Um, yeah, let's not get bogged down in paranoia though, eh? Ignore the > fact that it is Microsoft for a minute: some very bright minds have sat > down and designed a new framework for internet-based applications and > services. Who? I've only seen one recognised language guru involved with the project. It mostly seems to be being advocated and evangelised by the management who have so much to lose if Microsoft don't retain their monopoly as the battle moves to service provision. > (That's the new technology bit. It's innovation.) Not our innovation. That's the point I was making: why are we trying to implement theirs ahead of our own? > Remember that Microsoft had a significant input into SMIL and XML > (and many other funky technologies and innovations). "Significant input" does not equate to Microsoft-led and -owned. > Should we discard these lest we wind up staring at the competition? > Does it matter who the competition is? Well, I don't see acres of newsprint devoted to these other worthy technologies and I don't see the huge waste of programmer talent in their pursuit. Where Free software has got on quietly and provided sound implementations of useful techologies, it works well. Making a big noise before these projects have started is just *begging* to be knocked back. > Surely, if the competition have the cash to employ some > extremely talented designers, engineers, geeks etc, shouldn't we let them > pay while we steal their ideas? ;-) Depends if they want to steal our revolution...

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Re: [Alug] [fwd] Re: Very Worried at MS .net
by MJ Ray 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > http://www.ximian.com/tech/mono-index.php3 or So, Mono is a C-hash compiler (yuck), the CLI and CLR. Where are the other languages? Will the viral nature of the MS Shared Source licence kill them? > http://www.microsoft.com/net/whatis.asp for more details. It doesn't seem to like my web browser. I guess they're looking at the user agent. > I think to say .NET is "the new Windows API" is a little too glib. ...but depending on the contents of the CLI, it could be entirely fair.

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bash script...
by Andrew J Glover 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Could somebody explain to me why the following doesnt work, or offer a better solution please? -- DIRECTORY=".thumbnails" remThumbs() { rm -rf $DIRECTORY } for i in `ls -a` ; do if [ -d $i ] ; then echo "Yup, $i is a directory" if [ $i == $DIRECTORY && $i != "." || $i != ".." ] ; then echo "Removing $i ..." # remThumbs else echo "Entering $i ..." cd $i $HOME/bin/remThumbnails fi else echo "Nope, $i is a file" fi done -- Thanks, Andrew.

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LaTeX help
by David Freeman 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Hi, Can any one tell me how to change the way the date is displayed in LaTeX? ATM it shows up as July 19, 2001 which I don't want. I want it to show tomorrows date (20th July) as: 20 July 2001 This is being used in a letter which needs to be done tonight for tomorrow! Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] bash script...
by MJ Ray 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Andrew J Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> writes: > if [ $i == $DIRECTORY && $i != "." || $i != ".." ] ; Almost certainly that line wants [ ]s around each test (man test and man bash to see why). Use Brett's way though. Much nicer.

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test message
by Brett Parker 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

OK, this is just to see if I have now stopped my self from being blocked and having to wait for admins to approve the mails, please ignore, delete, set fire to, whatever ;) Brett

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Re: [Alug] cron job
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > when I first started using linux, I was logged in as root and typed Don't you think that root and the -f flag really don't mix? I also su lots for very short spaces of time these days too ;-)

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The Java Debate
by tom potts 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Just a few comments: C# looks interesting but is designed by Microsoft to Lock you in - they've already stated that in the future they will be charging for the XML standards. Froma design point of view its a bit of a mish mash of old technologies glued together. If theres a design flaw in Microsoft they provide a work around. Java is meant to be multi-platform and if there is a design flaw Sun have the temerity to go back and rip up all the previous work and start again. If you get a chance check out Forte - the Java IDE its free for now and runs on Windows/Solaris/Linux and if it doesnt scare the hell out of Microsoft i'll be surprised. Now some added bitching: As a Microsoft Technet user I was offered extra free information at the technet site. I went in and was told to fill in a Passport (all the usual lies for any market research). And on returning to the site I discovered it couldnt use the passport data and I would have to enter it all again to get my free info. Anyone know what it was? Beware trends: XML provides little more (over EDI peer to peer) than a nice way to view Data. But ask yourself why you would want to view data that is meant to be pumped straight into your business system? Tom ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [Alug] locale
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Andrew.Chandler(a)ftid.com writes: > Just one of those strange things about our country - we are the UK > but for some purposes we have to be GB? Like at the Olympics etc. I think it's something like ISO says GB, but reality often says UK. Sometimes reality beats a standard.

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Re: [Alug] Mail Clients Which one do you use?
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > Is that part of emacs? I must start to play with emacs one day. It runs in Emacs or XEmacs, yes. Whether it is "part of" Emacs would be a very contentious issue.

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Who .NEEDS it ...?
by Earl Brannigan 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Hi All, Following these .NET threads I couldn't help smiling. C#...?? Sorry, who needs another 'C/C++' like language. (I trust everyone realises the # is a ++ on ++, ie C# is C++++ (NOT!!!). C++ is a well defined mature standardised programming language. I can already write cross platform code with it. OK I need to compile on whatever platform but compilers are very compliant, and if I use posix api for threads and standard winsock api etc etc .... you get the picture. So why would I want to move to an immature, unproven, non-standard(yet) mechanism driven by the one company on this planet that I actually HATE. If C++ isn't up to what I need then Java can fill that gap usually, but there are all the other Perl/Python/yadayayada etc that I can also get into. Open, standardised, mature, robust. There is nothing Sharp about C#, it is a blatant plagiarism of Java. As such it is very blunt. Runtime engine, garbage collector, libraries. Sorry that's Java. And if I want something that looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks, I'll get a duck thank you very much. My 2 penneth. Hailstorm??? Sorry, M$ do not have a very good record with authentication services.... PPTP anyone ? .NET, my .ARSE Earl

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Re: [Alug] locale
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

I'm not a Debian user, so it might do it differently, but you might find the locale is 'en_gb'. Just one of those strange things about our country - we are the UK but for some purposes we have to be GB? Like at the Olympics etc. Weird? We don't even have a national Football or Cricket team?!?! Rant over.. Bing Andrew J Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> on 19/07/2001 12:45:16 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: [Alug] locale RFC822 message headers Hello, Ive had this problem since installing Debian (potato), having no success in fixing it.. Its an annoyance more than anything: perl: warning: Setting locale failed. perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: LANGUAGE = (unset), LC_ALL = (unset), LANG = "en_UK" are supported and installed on your system. perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). Looking around for help, a few people mention running 'locale-gen'. I dont have this on my system, should I? Any other ideas would be appreciated, thanks Andrew. _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Visit from Tim.
by David Freeman 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

All, I got this email from Josette at O'Reilly. I hope some of you can come. Tim O'Reilly has been one of thr driving forces behing Free software. MOre info on Tim can be found at http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/tim_bio.html Hope to see some of you there. Thanks D --- Josette Garcia <josette(a)oreilly.co.uk> wrote: Hi David Hope you are interested in the following. Tim O'Reilly will be at BT Labs on Wed. 9th August. You are all cordially invited to attend the talk. To register, please contact library(a)bt.com with name, affiliation and need of car park facility. Description of the talk - Title: The Pause before the Next Wave Speaker: Tim O'Reilly, President and CEO, O'Reilly & Associates Content: With this year's high-tech slowdown in full swing, programmers, web developers, system administrators, and other IT professionals are suddenly facing an uncertain future, as their stock options go underwater and layoffs replace seemingly bottomless demand for people with tech skills. The dotcom party has turned into an industry-wide hangover. But can this really be the end of an era? Date: Wednesday 8th August Venue: BT, Martlesham Heath Time: 15.00 That's all for now. All the best Josette ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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.NET has hope
by David Freeman 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Found this on a O'Rielly website " In 1998, we helped found ActiveState in order to make Perl more accessible to Windows users. ActiveState's ASPN product line now provides tools, support, and services for Perl, Python, and XSLT, and Visual Studio plug-ins for these languages so that they can be used with Microsoft's new .Net framework. " Thanks D PS Earl, I like the .ARSE idea. Especially as in diving ARSE stands far Always the Right Stuff for the Evironment! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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locale
by Andrew J Glover 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Hello, Ive had this problem since installing Debian (potato), having no success in fixing it.. Its an annoyance more than anything: perl: warning: Setting locale failed. perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: LANGUAGE = (unset), LC_ALL = (unset), LANG = "en_UK" are supported and installed on your system. perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). Looking around for help, a few people mention running 'locale-gen'. I dont have this on my system, should I? Any other ideas would be appreciated, thanks Andrew.

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cron job
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Hi all, Just writing my first backup procedure and wondered on a few points: Does this check the directory /home/jenny/cwp exists? if [ -f /home/jenny/cwp/ ]; then Also, is there a standard place backups are filed? I've created a directory called backups for now in my home directory, and will copy the cwp/ directory into the backups directory, but it would be far neater to somehow roll the directory up into one neat zipped tarball on a daily basis and stuff it in a special backup place. At the mo I have cp -r /home/jenny/cwp/* /home/jenny/cwpbackup/ but could I have something like tar zcf /home/jenny/cwp > /backups/cwpbak.tar ? Thanks all, jenny.

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RE: Who .NEEDS it ...?
by Earl Brannigan 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Hi Andrew... On 19 July 2001 12:02, Andrew J Glover [SMTP:flexifoil@btinternet.com] wrote: > Umm. No. C# isnt C Like. Then it is a misappropriation of 'C'. If its Java-like then it is C-Like in so far as Java is C-Like. Like. >Very much Java like, and I actually found it a > little nicer to program than Java! Flame away! Flaming is not my speciality! (Complaining about M$ is though) We all have our preferences, it is likewise easier to program in Java than C++. But first you have to know Java, and first you have to know C# (Both would require an initial and ongoing investment of time and money to learn). If M$ hadn't been such w**nkers over Java, had co-operated instead of trying to embrace and extend then they could have helped to improve Java, contributed to its evolution. But NO. Because Sun wouldn't play ball and let M$ bastardise Java in their usual manner M$ decided to use their best boffins to 'innovate' something appears remarkably close to it (whether standards or not). And then there's the 'shared source' license ..... another time perhaps.. Cheers Regards Earl

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Ow! MS strikes out against cross-platform?
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

I was just sent this via the FSFEurope.org mailing lists. I recoil in horror that they might get away with this. What do others think? Is Java going to die, will this become an "optional" plug-in like VBRUN.dll was on Windows 3, or is Java mostly used on the server side anyway? Slashdotters will have seen this anyway, but here's choice clips from http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2790355,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnew… A Microsoft spokesman said Java support was diminished for "business reasons" After Windows XP is launched in October, users will be directed to download a plug-in from Microsoft's Web site (www.microsoft.com) to make Java-based programs work. "if you want your Web page accessible to the largest number of people, you may want to drop Java" and switch to Microsoft's competing set of products, which is under development and is known as .Net. Microsoft's new products will now screen out Java as a possible carrier of computer viruses in e-mail and, under high-security settings, in Web-browsing software. ... Microsoft's new security rules don't halt the transmission of e-mail attachments that contain Microsoft Word or Excel "macros," Microsoft didn't announce the change. [Above Copyright 2001 ZD Inc. See their site for confusing terms. I think this complies. Foo.]

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Re: [Alug] Mail Clients Which one do you use?
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > [...] What I want to know is what is your mail set up and what is > its faults. Exim on the outbound (was an earlyish smail user), fetchmail on the inbound and Gnus on the user interface. It's a bit of a pig to set up initially, but it really does do everything.

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[fwd] Re: Very Worried at MS .net
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

As promised, the message from Alex Hudson to FSF Europe's Discussion list. To: discussion(a)fsfeurope.org Subject: Re: Very Worried at MS .net On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 01:10:27AM +0100, Alistair Davidson wrote: > .NET is a framework (VM, development tool, and standards suite) for > developing and deploying "web services" Not quite accurate - and this is why most people are confused. Ignore the marketing - .NET is the new Windows API. It provides a platform for web services, yes, but that's only one aspect of it. MS are pushing the web stuff hard, because it's a pretty new feature for them, but the other stuff shouldn't be ignored. Hailstorm and Passport are .net services - .net is as network integrated as you like, some things will only work over the network, some things will be local only. Hailstorm and Passport are two examples of .net services which are network-enabled. > One presumes that 3rd parties will be able to run HailStorm and > Passport-style services (MS claims that the HailStorm protocol is open, > at least). Hailstorm, I think you're right in saying, is open. Passport definitely isn't - and I would imagine that MS will want to keep it that way. Whether or not it can be reverse engineered depends on how well it's been done, I would suspect not. > There's no obvious reason, from the user or developer's end of things, > for MS to do this. I would forget the .net == Office For Rent scenario, it's not going to happen. Microsoft are too clever for that. > I'm not sure about passport, but how hard would it be to > reverse-engineer the thing if it's closed? Given it's supposed to be engineered around PKI, I would be surprised if it was reverse-engineerable, although it might be possible. I would assume, though, that MS will have gone to lengths to prevent people getting into it at a protocol level. Cheers, Alex.

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Problem Solved... for now... I think
by John Seago 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

I've got round my problems with Red Hat by installing Mandrake 8 over the top of it. the ultimate way out for the terminally confused. The Error message with balsa was `Authentication Failed'. Yesterday I realised that I actually had what I was looking for when I first got the Email and Web browser to work, as all the features were there that I used on Windows, (plus I can now get at my Windows files),but instead of just getting on and using it, I seem to have became hooked, and now will not give up until I can get everything working. Ultimate target a full set of Debian! (Is it addictive? I used to regard the computer as an electric typewriter with an electronic filing system, that cluttered up four times the space that my trusty typewriter did. Now I can't seem to stop until I can control it all!) John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Ow! MS strikes out against cross-platform?
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Well, there are parts of .Net that are sane and sensible, and it doesn't > hurt to have another framework for internet application development. This one could. We all know where Linux fails most: where it's trying to play catch-up to a microsoft-led technology. It's time to stop staring at the competition waiting for them to make the next move and start blazing our own trail. After all, that's where the big advances and successes have been made: new technology. If we just slavishly follow, we'll always be behind and Linux will never make the mainstream. YMMV.

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Re: [Alug] Crashes on phylisophy
by MJ Ray 19 Jul '01

19 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Yup, it's the swiss army knife of mail readers. Haven't found the toggle > to make a cup of tea when new mail arrives yet, though. Really? In Gnus, you just add the x10 command function to the new mail hook. Welcome to the swiss army kitchen sink of mail readers ;-)

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Re: [Alug] Crashes on phylisophy
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > mutt can use any external editor you ask it to. I use it with both pico > and vim, depending on mood... if [ $(($RANDOM % 2)) == 1 ] ; then vim $* ; else pico $* ; fi ?

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Crashes on phylisophy
by David Freeman 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Can some one please explain something. When ever I get really deap and into a reply to an email which is deap meaningful and usually very philisophical Netscape causes linux to crash. The symtoms are the computer can't keep up with my typing, the harddisk rattles away at full tilt and then the mouse wonders randomly around the screen with out control, this is driving me mad, can anyone explain why? also does anyone know of a mail client addon for VIM or any mail client which uses the Vi commands? thanks D PS Fozzy I will reply when I stop getting crashes! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Ow! MS strikes out against cross-platform?
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Not even slightly. .Net is a framework for internet applications. Not quite. I'll forward the best explanation I've been sent as soon as I find it again. > .Net is yet another way of Microsoft embracing, > extending and ultimately consuming the internet. So, should Free Software (Mono, dotGNU) be aiding and abetting them in this smash and grab on Eden?

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Re: [Alug] Bash script help please!
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

bsamuels(a)datamansys.co.uk writes: > Can I automate this process from within a script? Yes, possibly, with .netrc and ftp, but why don't you tell us the actual problem you're trying to solve with this script and comparison and there's probably another solution out there.

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ISDN Question
by Mathew Bland 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Hi, Does anyone have any experience with BTInternet and ASUSCom (with Winbond chipset) ISDN cards with Mandrake? The problem I have is this: I used to run Mandrake with an old ISA Eicon ISDN card, and I could connect to the internet and all was well with the world. Due to harddrive failure I lost Mandrake for a while and recently decided to reinstall it. This time around though, I have a new ASUSCom PCI ISDN card. Mandrake detected and (appeared) to set it all up correctly. I checked all the relevant files (resolv.conf,mycard,myisp,pap-secrets and chap-secrets) to ensure that it had set them all up ok and everything looked fine. So, I begin to connect to the internet in the normal way (ifup ippp0, isdnctrl dial ippp0 etc) and it appeared to connect correctly. The only problem is, that I cannot go *anywhere* on the internet. I cannot ping any internet IP (except the one given to me by the ISP on connection) and when I do a nslookup it fails to find the nameservers. Also the netgraph that I have running shoots up to full until I disconnect. I have heard that BTInternet uses CHAP authentication, could this be a problem?? I am considering putting the old card back in, but that strikes me as a bit defeatist... Mat

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Re: [Alug] Questions from a test
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > a) Runlevel 5 automatically starts the X window system T/F > So what answer would you put for this question, bear in mind most of > the other questions are refering to Redhat 7 explisitly. "It depends on what the inittab says." Also, note that X has access control to stop unwelcome applications shoving their windows in your face. Many people run X with tcp disabled.

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Re: [Alug] Version Numbers
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

/me wonders if all RedHat versions are development versions!! John, No, not for RedHat, SuSE et cetera.... Does Debian? Andi John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> on 17/07/2001 17:26:28 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: [Alug] Version Numbers RFC822 message headers I am currently wrestling with Red Hat 7.1, (seawolf). Do the issue/version numbers in the full package follow the same numbering system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering than any inherent fault). Having got the KDE Email and web browser up and running I am now trying to get Balsa to work, the incoming mail is fine but with the same settings as in KDE it does not seem to work, obviously there is something I've missed. Can anyone advise me please? John Seago _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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[Fwd: Re: [Alug] Version Numbers]
by Michael Lincoln 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

For everyone who missed by rant (I'm sure you care 8) ) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Alug] Version Numbers Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:57:49 +0100 From: Michael Lincoln <mclinc(a)essex.ac.uk> To: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> References: <01071717262800.01024(a)localhost.localdomain> <87k817rxfr.fsf(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> <3B55456B.F23C81F3(a)entora.co.uk> Neill Newman wrote: >MJ Ray wrote: > >>John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> writes: >> >>>system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? >>> >>With RedHat, no, as far as I know. >> > > >nope, the numbers are just that.. the devel version of redhat is called >rawhide, and lives on several mirror archives if you want to have aplay >with it... > >>>If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some >>>applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering >>>than any inherent fault). >>> >>I've heard the criticism of RedHat that they have done a "if it >>compiles, ship it" strategy with 7.1 rather a lot recently. Can any >>of our RedHat users confirm or deny that? >> > > >I can deny that, While I am sure that there are bugs with various pieces >of RedHat that have shipped, there are also a comparable number of bug >and security releases with other distro's. I have been using redhat for >about 5 years now, and in my experience they do a 6 month ship cycle, >and three months after the last release they freeze versions and work on >getting the bugs out (unless a security alert is made on a package).. >imho they don';t just ship it if it compiles...I've used all versions >since 3.0.3, and 7.1 is definatly more stable/more features than any >other release (ok, I acknowledge the gcc argument, but i'm not going to >get drawn into it again ;)... > >hth >Sz > I can conferm this! Redhat have realy f**ked up on more that one occation by shipping software that is broken, when there where perfectly good alternatives. They are always shipping development versions of libc. Sure they are driving the technology forwards very quickly by geting this software tested by millions of people, but persionaly I'd rather It wasn't me that was forced into the testing. I have no problems running beta software. My X-server was complied weekly out of CVS for about a year, but I do like to have a choise. I want a distro thats broken *after* I've been at it, not before 8). (hence I dont use redhat) Did you actualy use RH 5.0 ? Please, dont use the word "stable" near it! Sure redhat has more features than something like slackware, but it's _nothing like_ as stable. For me SuSE is a happy medium. Simple out of the box installs that do everything & more than I need, and relatively well built cf. Redhat. I installed SuSE 7.1 the otherday and its the best I've seen from SuSE yet. Almost everything worked out of the box. USB mouse/keyboard/printer, WinTV card, SCSI, ethernet, my visor, even theres even an RPM for the temperature sensor on my motherboard! - every bit of hardware I have. It comes with 2.4.2 +patches kernel. You can download XF 4.1.0 rpms from there ftp site and these work with H/W accel. openGL with no hacking. I droped in kernel 2.4.6, no need to upgrade anything. Hit the online autoupdate button on yast2 and it applied all the updates. Yast1 configured LVM form me. Infact to get the (desktop) system to a useable state all I had to hand edit was the conf.modules file to get the kernel drivers for my sound blaster working. (alsa has never liked my SB16 for some reasion). Oh yes, and they mannage to release security fixes too. I suspect they also have a feature freeze *before* they release, like anyone without a death wish 9). Having used both SuSE and RedHat for extened periods of time I'd have to recommend SuSE to anyone. There is simply no reasion to use RedHat anymore. Even the comercial support argument has gone. SuSE has 38% of the Americal market share OTTOMH Anyway rant over, must do some work... Mike > >>_______________________________________________ >>alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list >>Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk >>http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug >>See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! >> >

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Re: [Alug] Version Numbers
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Thank goodness Debian's release process is as rigourous as it is. Shame it > takes them 2 years to punt one out, though... Steady on... it's only been 1 year since 2.2 and there have been 3 security releases. The freeze for 3.0 has started. 18 months is probably closer ;-)

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Version Numbers
by John Seago 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

I am currently wrestling with Red Hat 7.1, (seawolf). Do the issue/version numbers in the full package follow the same numbering system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering than any inherent fault). Having got the KDE Email and web browser up and running I am now trying to get Balsa to work, the incoming mail is fine but with the same settings as in KDE it does not seem to work, obviously there is something I've missed. Can anyone advise me please? John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Version Numbers
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> writes: > system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? With RedHat, no, as far as I know. > If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some > applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering > than any inherent fault). I've heard the criticism of RedHat that they have done a "if it compiles, ship it" strategy with 7.1 rather a lot recently. Can any of our RedHat users confirm or deny that?

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Re: [Alug] Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Joss Winn 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Thanks for your suggestions on where to get Slackware 8 in the UK. What I really want though is to buy the offical box set with manual. Partly to support the distribution and partly because I want the printed manual. Any sugestions on the offical box set are still very welcome. cheers! Joss --

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Re: [Alug] Bash script help please!
by MJ Ray 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

bsamuels(a)datamansys.co.uk writes: > Is it possible to compare the sizes of two files from within a Bash > script? I don't need to know the actual sizes just which one is the > bigger file. bigger_file=$(ls -S1 file1 file2 | head -1) > I can't find anything useful in the Bash man page. That'll be because it's in the ls man page. Hope that helps.

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make-kpkg buildpackage
by Andrew J Glover 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hello, I finally got round to running 'make-kpkg buildpackage'... And installed the resulting debs. However /usr/include/linux still hasnt been updated to the current kernel headers, is this "normal" behavoir for that, I thought it would update them... Help please! Andrew

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Re: [Alug] Beta testers needed for off-topic Alug list :)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Martyn: I still can't see you from here - my subscription is being bounced: "No route found to domain lists.alug.org.uk from server NOTESSERVER/TCL. Check DNS configuration." Anything I can do? Jenny

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Re: [Alug] Beta testers needed for off-topic Alug list :)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Adam Bower wrote: >does lists.alug.org.uk exist ? just it seems unreachable. I can't get this link to work either. Jen

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Ooops....
by Earl Brannigan 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hi all, Couple of points : 1)If I have to wait until the full digest comes then I have to scan for those threads I am following - sometimes the digest is massive. But if I get cc'd I see where the discussion is going in 'real' time and can ensure I know the score. Recent posts on religion and spelling a case in point. I had no idea until this morning's digest that so many people were pissed with the discussion going the way it did, by which time I had already posted. Whats more, the digest is just that, a digest of the ongoing discussions. How often have I responded to a question posed in the digest then with the next digest found multiple replies prior to mine, which were evidently posted prior to the digest being generated ? Alot of other lists either send out each mail to all subscribers (eg. mod_ssl mailing list) or advise if someone has posted a response in the same thread or as a reply to yours. 2)People do go off topic occasionally, I don' t think its such a bad thing, we are not robots, there are a number of things which we 'bring to the party' if they are relevant. Whether something is relevant or not can be pretty subjective. Free software is a community of people. User Groups are made up of people. Of course there needs to be some discipline to avoid tons of off -topic stuff cluttering things up, but people first! 3)If people are resigning from the list because a thread went off topic then I am very disappointed. Surely a complaint/flame against the culprits is better. (I can handle it, no asbestos required). Or to put it another way :Grow up and Get a Life! Finally, I don't actually think the thread was that far off topic. I could go into a number of (arguably interesting) parallels between the history of the church and the evolution of free software. But who cares! BTW, for what its worth, I am an atheist. (Or is that too far off topic, maybe I should resign from the list...) Cheers Earl

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Beta testers needed for off-topic Alug list :)
by Martyn Drake 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hi, I've set-up a list called (thanks to Mark Ray for the suggestion of the name) social(a)lists.alug.org.uk, which does exactly as it says on the tin. It's intended to move off-topic threads onto a seperate mailing list so that much more Linuxy thing can be discussed on this general list. I need people to help test it, and the best way to do that is to use it. All you need to do is visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/social for more information. I've attempted to keep the look and feel of the main subscription list information page, but there may still be a few bugs here and there. Regards, Martyn

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Off topic, Emoticons
by John Seago 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

I am afraid that as a complete beginner I am do not know what an emoticon is. No offence was intended, I was however struck by the direct comparison of the Linux/free/open community to a religious movement, I have to admit that even though I have a system in which only the word processor, spreadsheet, Web browser and Email client work, and whilst I really can't claim to know what I'm doing, I have a tendency to `evangelism' on behalf of `linux' in general. John Seago

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Connection Traumas revisited
by David Howe 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

OK so it's not such a trauma now, after great help from Neill and "Fozzy" - my routing still doesn't work but at least I'm now in a position to provide more intelligent information than my last post. OK here's a summary, LAN with 3 machines 1 x Win2k 10.10.10.100 1 x win98 10.10.10.99 1 x Mandrake 7.1 10.10.10.200 (called it route66 optimistically) netmask for all of these is 255.255.255.0 10.10.10.200 connects via external modem (ttyS1) to internet (ppp0) route gives me this...... Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface ba3-cvx3.cablei * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 route66 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0 10.10.10.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default ba3-cvx3.cablei 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 now, if I understand this right the first 3 lines of this output should be doing the job so can anybody tell from this why I can't get to the outside world from 10.10.10.100 or 10.10.10.99 - network comms are fine as SMB, Telnet, FTP HTTP all work to the 10.10.10.200 box but not beyond it hopefully :) Dave david(a)davidhowe.co.uk

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alug-announce digest, Vol 1 #4 - 2 msgs
by alug-announce-admin＠stu.uea.ac.uk 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Send alug-announce mailing list submissions to alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug-announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to alug-announce-request(a)stu.uea.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at alug-announce-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of alug-announce digest..." *** Please send replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk, not alug-announce... *** oMMMoMo Mo MMMMMMMoMo " "o"o"o"o oMMMoMoM oMMMMMM"MMM" " " " " " "o"o "oMMMoMMM " oMo"M"oo MM" " MoMoMMMMMMM oM " " "oMMM " " MoMMMMMoMoMoooo Mo MMM MoMoMMMMMoMMMMM o" MoM " MoMM "MMo"oMoMMMoM"" MM " MMMMo MMMMMoMMMMMM" oM " MoMMM MMMoMMMo"MM Mo" "MMoMo ooMMMMMMMoMo" oMo oMoMMM " "oMoMMMoMoMo MoM oMoMMM MMMMMMMMMoMMM "oM oMoMMM "M"M"MMoMMMo" " o "oo " MMMM" MMMMMoMoM o" " "oM " " " "o MMMoMMMo"o M " oM " " MMMMMMMoMo o" "oMoMoooMo" " o " " MMoMMMoMoMo " "o"o MM"""""""oM oM " "MMo oMMMMMoMMMoMo " """ """ " o"MMMMoMMMoMMMo"MMo"o" o o o oo MMMMMMoMMMoMMMoMoMo MMMMM MMMo oMMM MMMo MMoMMM oMoMMMoMMMoMMMoMMMo"o oMMMMM MMMo oMMM "MMo MMM "MM MMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMM" " " MMo"MMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" """ " MoMMMoMMMoMMMo" " " MMMoMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM"oMoMo " "MMoMMMoMMM " " MMMMMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" "MM oMMMoMoMoMMMoMMMoMo" " oMM" "oMM" "MMMMM" "MMMMM" MMMoMM" ooMMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMoMo "M" " " " " " """ """ "oM """oMM" " " "MMoMMMoMMMoMM" " " " " " " " alug-announce : The Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group Today's Topics: 1. [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED (David Freeman) 2. Best of ALUG... to 16 July (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:57:44 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com To: Alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: [ALUG-announce] [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED All, I have booked Martlesham heath scout hut for the 12th august 2001. So the next meet will be sunday 12th August. I will be inviting some members of GLLUG and LONIX. The cost of the hall is £10 and I was going to cover this by raffling off a book and possibly a T-shirt. So Usual system now applies, let me know what you will be bringing in the way of hardware and that you will being coming. ALso Don't forget the LUG BBQ afterwoods. Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! --__--__-- Message: 2 To: alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 16 Jul 2001 21:12:46 +0100 Subject: [ALUG-announce] Best of ALUG... to 16 July OK, we hit a massive off-topic drift near the end and this is, again, very late in being compiled. The next issue should be on Friday. Apologies to all for any bad editing on my part. There's a slightly different format to this edition. Email the main list, alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk to comment if you want. Highlights: IRC Nicknames list published BBQ meeting booked for Martlesham on 12 August Topics: Re: [Alug] linux expo.. Re: [Alug] Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux [Alug] Xdefaults [Alug] Curious Re: [Alug] Small question [Alug] latest IRC list [Alug] Suse contact [Alug] Alug Book emporuim Re: [Alug] Sending information between databases [Alug] BEER!!!!!! [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED [Alug] Tempest True type font [Alug] Going Alpha Re: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? RE: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? Re: [Alug] Connection Trauma Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 08:38:02 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: [Alug] linux expo.. -- oms101(a)freeuk.com wrote: > > Silly, whats silly? I learnt yesterday whilst talking to the Gay > > person with a tail, "why do i give a shit what others think?" and > > he's right, why do I care? >=20 > He was a nice girl and part of a tail related internet comunity > apparently his girl friend was a fox and he was some other anaimal, > some one I did not know made a joke about beastiality, but a good > relief from the goat sex related topics that sprang up at manlug Actually HE was called moof and is actually not interested in women, so it was his boy friend who is the fox and it was that latters tail he had borrowed. He says there are more like him at http://www.londonfurs.org/ Also he is from kent and is a student at Kent Uni. =20 > Ah poor bunny, why not track down the tail based internet comunity > they seemed fun to. I cant bitch though as It was remarkably > friendly and no matter how desperate you where to get hold of soft > toys people thought it was perfectly natural. ( Bet you cant guess > who that may have been) http://www.londonfurs.org/ - I don't really relate to the furries but the geeks/nerds/hackers which were in the bar I could relate to. > I met Wylug members, ManLug members and sheflug members as well, as > the locals. Its was like a tribal gethering for this nomad. I met Sheflug and manlug and Lonix and GLUG people also a group looking to form a LUG in kent. Like you say it was a tribal gathering. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:42:22 +0100 (BST) From: Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, David Freeman wrote: > 1) Is it worth getting TV out on a graphics card? for a desktop > machine? IMHO no, unless you want to watch DVDs on a larger screen etc. but I do= n't know if this is supported under Linux. I did have TV out on my last Nvi= dia TNT and never used it. > 2) How well is the geforce 2 MX supported on Linux? I have a GeForce 2 GTS and all Nvidia cards later than the Riva128 are supported with hardware acceleration, BUT the drivers to do this are binary only (they work fine though) Nvidia will not open source them. There is an implementation built into XFree86 that supports them but no hardware acceleration =3D=3D no Quake III. > 3) Are DVD rom drives fixed as a single region? if so how do I unfix > it? Yes, but you can unlock quite a few with a patch (a bit like a Bios update) I don't know where there is a site that tells you more, google might. If you do find more info let me know as I am also looking at some retail therapy! > 4) Do DVD rom drives have a S/PDIF output on the drive? I would of thought that some do and some dont. Sorry I can't be more helpful. > 5) Can any one recommend a cheap sound card which will give me 6 > channel sound output from the DVD drive and allow me to output it to = my > surround amp? Probably one of the cheap Creative Labs would do, again don't know real= ly > 6) What dvd decoding software would people recommend? don't know :-( My god I am soooo tempted to spend money at the moment! I am tempted by= an Athlon 1.2Ghz 512Mb 2100DDR memory, motherboard and DVD drive along wit= h a IBM UDMA100 60Gb hard disk and a Iiyama Vision master Pro 451 19" monit= or, but I have to keep telling myself that I live in the real world and can= 't afford it...... Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:48:35 +0100 (BST) From: oms101(a)freeuk.com Subject: [Alug] Xdefaults A while ago we where discussing X and .Xdefaults and I discovered that = some people might want some of my settings for X If you type use KDE it can be anoying the way you X applications look a= nd feel is modified by apply changes to all X windows deleting some of your cha= nges to the ~/.Xdefaults file. (I now use ice which is well customised now mayb= e I should post my theme some time to themes.org or even here) at the end of the ~/.Xdefaults file on my account you will see the line <Quote> #include "etc/X/Xresorces/Main" </Quote> This prevents programs overwriting my Xdefault which I set So fav I hav= e only set up a couple of programs The links to a file called Main which further links to setups for 4 applications and looks like=20 <Quote> #include "XTerm" #include "Nedit" #include "Netscape" #include "Ddd" </Quote> The files XTerm Nedit Netscape and Ddd have appended I hope this will improve the look of your X enviroment, The support for= wheel mouse in Xterms and Nedit is now an essential for me. Enjoy Owen - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Ddd - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Ddd*XmText.background: black Ddd*XmText.foreground: white - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Nedit - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! NeDiT Settings from OMS !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! NEdit*fontList: -*-lucidatypewriter-bold-r-*-*-17-*-*-*-*-*-*-* NEdit*text.selectForeground: red nedit*text.selectBackground: gray80 nedit*text.highlightBackground: red nedit*text.highlightForeground: white nedit.remapDeleteKey: False # NEdit NEdit*text.Translations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: scroll_up(1)\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: scroll_down(1)\n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: previous_page()\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: next_page(1)\n\ <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: scroll_up(3)\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: scroll_down(3)\n nedit.stdOpenDialog: True - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Netscape - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- !## NETSCAPE Netscape*drawingArea.translations: #replace \ <Btn1Down>: ArmLink() \n\ <Btn2Down>: ArmLink() \n\ ~Shift<Btn1Up>: ActivateLink() \n\ ~Shift<Btn2Up>: ActivateLink(new-window) \ DisarmLink() \n\ Shift<Btn1Up>: ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink() \n\ Shift<Btn2Up>: ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink() \n\ <Btn1Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Btn2Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Btn3Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Motion>: DescribeLink() \n\ <Btn3Down>: xfeDoPopup() \n\ <Btn3Up>: ActivatePopup() \n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>: PageUp()\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>: PageDown()\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>: LineUp()\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>: LineDown()\n\ None<Btn4Down>: LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp= ()\n\ None<Btn5Down>: LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()\n\ Alt<Btn4Down>: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ Alt<Btn5Down>: xfeDoCommand(back)\n Netscape*globalNonTextTranslations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>: LineUp()\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>: LineDown()\n\ None<Btn4Down>:LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()\n\ None<Btn5Down>:LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDo= wn()\n\ Alt<Btn4Down>: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ Alt<Btn5Down>: xfeDoCommand(back)\n - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- XFMail - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! XFMail Settings from OMS !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! xfmail*text.Translations: #override\n\=20=20 <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:a\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:a\n\ =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- XTerm - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! Basic !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D !Changed as to big a window on display !.xterm.geometry: 80x45 .xterm.geometry: 78x18 .xterm.vt100.background: black .xterm.vt100.foreground: grey .xterm.vt100.color0: #000000 .xterm.vt100.color1: #d36265 .xterm.vt100.color2: #aece91 .xterm.vt100.color3: #e7e18c .xterm.vt100.color4: #7a7ab0 .xterm.vt100.color5: #963c59 .xterm.vt100.color6: #418179 .xterm.vt100.color7: gray .xterm.vt100.color8: gray40 .xterm.vt100.color9: #ef8171 .xterm.vt100.color10: #e5f779 .xterm.vt100.color11: #fff796 .xterm.vt100.color12: #4186be .xterm.vt100.color13: #ef9ebe .xterm.vt100.color14: #71bebe .xterm.vt100.color15: white .xterm*fontMenu*background: green ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! Motif ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D !*XmText.translations: #override\n\ ! <Key>osfDelete: delete-previous-character()\n\ ! <Key>osfBackSpace: delete-next-character()\n ! !*XmTextField.translations: #override\n\ ! <Key>osfDelete: delete-next-character()\n\ ! <Key>osfBackSpace: delete-previous-character()\n ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! XTerm ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D !*vt100.translations: #override \ ! <Key>Home: string("=1B[1~") \n\ ! <Key>Insert: string("=1B[2~") \n\ ! <Key>BackSpace: string("=1B[3~") \n\ ! <Key>End: string("=1B[4~") !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! xterm defaults from OMS !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! ! !# In the scrollbar we map buttons 5 & 4 to 1 and 2 otherwise, core dump !# This will move proportionnaly to cursor position but we dont know ho= w to !# program the same exact behavior as in the text widget. XTerm.vt100.Scrollbar.translations: #override\n\ <Btn5Down>: StartScroll(Forward)\n\ <Btn4Down>: StartScroll(Backward)\n\ XTerm.vt100.translations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,line)\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,line)\n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,page)\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,page)\n\ <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,halfpage)\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,halfpage)\n\ =20 =20 ! xterm (and friends) XTerm*highlightSelection: true ! Uncomment this to use color for the bold attribute XTerm*VT100*colorBDMode: on XTerm*VT100*colorBD: blue ! Uncomment this to use color for underline attribute XTerm.VT100*colorULMode: on XTerm.VT100*underLine: off XTerm*VT100*colorUL: magenta ! Uncomment this to display the scrollbar XTerm*scrollBar: true ! This resource specifies whether or not to ignore the 'alternate scree= n' ! of applications such as vi. When it is on, these applications will r= estore ! the contents of the screen when they are exited to what they were bef= ore ! they were started. When it is off, the contents of vi will remain on= the ! screen after the program is quit. XTerm.VT100.titeInhibit: true ! Uncomment this to turn off color mode in your xterms !XTerm.VT100*colorMode: off XTerm.VT100*dynamicColors: on ! Number of lines of scrollback to save XTerm*saveLines: 1500 xterm*reverseWrap: true !*visualBell: true *visualBell: False *scrollTtyOutput: False *scrollKey: True !XTerm.vt100.Scrollbar.translations: #override\n\ ! <Btn5Down>: StartScroll(Forward)\n\ ! <Btn4Down>: StartScroll(Backward)\n\ xterm*background: LightYellow2 xterm.eightBitInput: true xterm*multiScroll: on xterm*jumpScroll: on xterm*ScrollBar: on xterm*SaveLines: 2000 ! xterm*VisualBell: true xterm.eightBitOutput: true !xterm*font: -adobe-courier-bold-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-iso8859= -1 !xterm*font: -bitstream-terminal-bold-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-is= o8859-1 xterm*font: 10x20 !This Stuff was cut from the top XTerm*Scrollbar*width: 16 XTerm*Scrollbar*height: 16 XTerm*Scrollbar*shadowWidth: 2 XTerm*Scrollbar*borderWidth: 3 XTerm*RightScrollBar: True *Scrollbar*width: 15 *Scrollbar*height: 15 *Scrollbar*shadowWidth: 2 *Scrollbar*borderWidth: 2 *Scrollbar*cursorName: top_left_arrow *Scrollbar*pushThumb: false *Label*shadowWidth: 2 *Label*borderWidth: 2 *shapeStyle: Rectangle *shadowWidth: 2 *SmeBSB*shadowWidth: 2 *Toggle*highlightThickness: 2 *MenuButton*highlightThickness: 2 *Command*highlightThickness: 2 *Panner*shadowThickness: 2 *SimpleMenu*shadowThickness: 2 *topShadowContrast: 20 *bottomShadowContrast: 45 *PushThumb: False - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- please note that I have included the Files in the body of the text to a= void hastle, if the delimiter confuses you you can always mail me for the ra= w files Owen ------------------------------ Date: 07 Jul 2001 15:37:39 +0100 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: [Alug] Curious Well, I was getting some nasty errors on my CDROM recently while trying to play a CD that I knew worked before. XMMS just hung there, while xconsole showed errors about "SeekComplete DriveReady Error". So I rebuilt my kernel with only the drivers I actually use (removing the swsusp patch that makes my machine panic if I try to use it) and that didn't work. I installed ALSA (which debian have now got quite a nice build process for now, I think, although I hacked it about a little bit). The sound quality is absolutely loads better, but it still hung on the "bad" files. I searched around the net a bit, confident that my system was fairly neat and tidy now. Someone mentioned that they see that error when the CD is scratched. I took the CD out, polished it with the "Magic Cloth" I use on my glasses (3 pounds or so from Boots Opticians) and now it works. Ooops. --=20 MJR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 18:06:09 +0100 From: Andrew J Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Alug] Small question Steve Kuo wrote: > Anyone know how I'd go about taking a screenshot? Not > in KDE or anything, just plain bash If you have Imagemagick (likely) installed, then : import -window root some.jpg Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:13:51 +0100 From: Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com Subject: [Alug] latest IRC list [this will appear on http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/articles/2001a/ircnames.html at midnight tonight, 16 July] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:05:52 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Suse contact Does anyone know of the LUG contact in SuSE? I remeber phoning someone before NLD but can't find the name or number. An email address would be useful. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Alug Book emporuim All, I have just spoken to pearson Education who are offering a discount on there books to ALUG members, we just have to put a link on the web page to there site which if we use gives us the discount. Pearson are offering Prentice hall books which are the publishers of books by Andrew Tanenbaum. Andrews books are some of the best technical ones out there, his book on OS's helped Linus no end when he was writting linux originally. Also his book "Computer Networks" 3rd edition is very good and recommended reading for all members. Whilst on the subject of books, I was thinking of taking Jens page on Lniux books and building it into a larger page with details of the ALUG discounts and also the recommended reading list. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:15:29 +0100 From: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Alug] Sending information between databases On Wed, 11 Jul, 2001 at 9:50 +0100, Ashley T. Howes Ph.D. wrote: > It's a general question more than anything. Assume the database does= not > support native replication. Hrm. All I can say is, perhaps it's time to consider a database that DOES support native replication? Doing it yourself is going to be at best tricky, at worst prone to errors and omissions. When you're talking abo= ut customers valuable data, this is a BAD thing. There's plenty of free databases out there that support it, so there's little cost argument against (aside from time to implement). Heck, even MySQL supports replication now, and you should all know my thoughts on *that* particular RDBMS-wannabe by now.... ;-) Andrew. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] BEER!!!!!! List, Is anyone on the list planning on going to the linux beer hike in belguim at the end of august? Seriously contemplating it.=20=20 Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:57:44 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED All, I have booked Martlesham heath scout hut for the 12th august 2001.=20 So the next meet will be sunday 12th August. I will be inviting some members of GLLUG and LONIX. The cost of the hall is =A310 and I was going to cover this by raffling off a book and possibly a T-shirt. So Usual system now applies, let me know what you will be bringing in the way of hardware and that you will being coming. ALso Don't forget the LUG BBQ afterwoods. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:35:34 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Tempest True type font Does anyone know of a true type font which should screw up tempest equipment? I know pgp shipped with one but I need a free anti-tempest font. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:52:52 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Going Alpha All, My web site has now gone alpha. So could I ask for people to take a look and let me know of any bugs, speiling misstakes etc... Also constructive criticism would be nice. http://freemadi.alug.org.uk/ Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 00:00:12 +0100 (BST) From: Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 Ruleng(a)aol.com wrote: > If there is not enough disk space for a recommended distribution= , would > it be possible for me to use only part of it at first, a= nd which > parts should a novice select? I would appreciate any advice that y= ou could > give me. Oh yeah, there is also this HOW-TO document for getting linux on a lapt= op with less than 4Mb of RAM and a hard disk of around 200Mb which you can find here http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/4mb-Laptops.html which may be useful. I just had a look at the Slackware website and it does say the minimum system is 16Mb of RAM and 50Mb of harddisk so that may be more suitable for you http://www.slackware.org Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:39:08 +0100 (BST) From: oms101(a)freeuk.com Subject: RE: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? SuSe tends to be a bit bulky maybe debian, which I would not normally a= dvice to A) a begginer B) some one without free internet access. ( I know Suse w= ill install in that size though the default kernal is now pentium optimised= so not 486 compatable) Owen=20 (SuSe user) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:32:33 +0100 From: Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Connection Trauma On Sun, Jul 15, 2001 at 10:06:58PM +0100, David Howe wrote: > Win2K machine is looking to 10.10.10.200 for web pages (for example) > but is not getting any further i.e. getting no imformation from > 10.10.10.200's ppp0 connection. ppp0 was set up in linuxconf rather > than kppp and connects fine at boot and the "set default route" > option is checked. I have no default route set as Linuxconf help > suggested not to for ppp connections as they sort it themselves As you have 10.something addresses on your LAN, simple IP forwarding will not be enough to enable the machines on your LAN to access the internet using the Linux box as a gateway. If you are only interested in web access then you could install a web proxy server like squid or wwwoffle on the Linux box and configure you LAN client to use the Linux box as a web proxy. This is an especially useful arrangement if you have more than one LAN client as the proxy can cache things and the cache is shared by all the clients. For other protocols (mail, news, games etc.) you will need to configure IP masquerading on the Linux box. There is a HOWTO on this at the Linux documentation project site (http://www.linuxdoc.org/) Steve. ------------------------------ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ alug-announce mailing list alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug-announce End of alug-announce Digest

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Connection Traumas revisited
by David Howe 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

OK so it's not such a trauma now, after great help from Neill and "Fozzy" - my routing still doesn't work but at least I'm now in a position to provide more intelligent information than my last post. OK here's a summary, LAN with 3 machines 1 x Win2k 10.10.10.100 1 x win98 10.10.10.99 1 x Mandrake 7.1 10.10.10.200 (called it route66 optimistically) netmask for all of these is 255.255.255.0 10.10.10.200 connects via external modem (ttyS1) to internet (ppp0) route gives me this...... Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface ba3-cvx3.cablei * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 route66 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0 10.10.10.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default ba3-cvx3.cablei 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 now, if I understand this right the first 3 lines of this output should be doing the job so can anybody tell from this why I can't get to the outside world from 10.10.10.100 or 10.10.10.99 - network comms are fine as SMB, Telnet, FTP HTTP all work to the 10.10.10.200 box but not beyond it hopefully :) Dave david(a)davidhowe.co.uk

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Off Topic?
by John Seago 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

David Freeman wants us to return to topic and his first act is to use a quote which uses religion as an analogy for the sectarian divides in the linux/free/open community! `dons' & `asbestos' to get back to the subject which started all this. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Joww Win wrote: >I arrive back in the UK on the weekend and would like to order a boxed >Slackware ASAP. Can anyone tell me where I can buy one from in the UK. Joss - here you go: http://www.cheeplinux.co.uk/cat.pl?session_id=&search=slackware Jenny.

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Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Joss Winn 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hiya, I've just bought an old P133 Dell laptop for writing essays and using a shell account on and think I want to put Slackware on it. I arrive back in the UK on the weekend and would like to order a boxed Slackware ASAP. Can anyone tell me where I can buy one from in the UK. I've used the Linux Emporium in the past but they still don't have the boxed sets. Thanks Joss

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Linux in the news
by David Freeman 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

All, For a nice return to topic. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/dot_life/newsid_144… is a good story on techy gadgets and mentions linux and the I love linux camps etc... Most interesting. I like the bit "Old Amiga and Acorn computers have legions of fans, as does the ill-fated Apple Newton; there are Palm patriots and Ericsson evangelists. And there are thousands who worship at the church of Linux and its associated technologies. " Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Language, Education, Religion and History
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Sorry, folks. I think we're going to have to draw a line under this off-topic discussion of spelling and religion. People are unsubscribing from the list en masse, including some active participants, and there are more than enough other places to have this discussion, particularly in uk.* newsgroups. If someone wants to nominate an alternative place for it to continue, or bring the discussion back on-topic, that's OK, but otherwise expect the email-eater to be in use for the first time ever.

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Parental education was Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by Earl Brannigan 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Hi guys, Really a point of order... sorry list, this has sod all to do with Linux. OK, Gotta have two penneth here, happen to be well versed in both Theology and Religious History, I have for 5 years also been involved in cult exit counselling so I have seen the extremes of religious practice. David Freeman wrote: > To: Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com, alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > --- Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com wrote: > > > > > > >The problem > > >is parenting ansd socail responsiblity aren't impressed upon people, > > >which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of > > infleunce > > >of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on > > >moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there > > >off spring. Because of enforcing bible in latin only and underpinning the snobbish practice of french being the de-facto language of the ruling classes the Church (ie the Catholic Church as-was) enforced ignorance on people. Thus the masses were not empowered by a moral code because they were unable to read it. Anyone translating the Bible into the common tongue was burned at the stake for it. After the reformation the bible ("the common Moral code") became available to all in the common tongue, however one still had to fall in line with the received interpretation of such else face a similar penalty. Thus rather than an morally uplifting mechanism for society religion has merely been a conformance-enforcement mechanism for a pre-determined 'moral, legal' code. > > Jen's soapbox of the day: > > Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Religion is > > responsible > > for a lot of bad stuff. Religion was made to control, and the people > > in > > charge of it abuse their power. Morality through fear is not a > > solution. People have a monopoly on morality. People have chosen over the years to abdicate the responsibility that comes with morality to Religion. Morality is in effect conscience with laws. We know its wrong to commit murder, but without a common agreed law we would have nothing to train our consciences of that fact. Religion gives direction to our morality, validation and enforcement. Allowing us to trust our consciences by ensuring it complies with the moral code as interpreted by religion. The post-modernist world does away with the 'absolute truth' aspect of religious beleif ("Well, if it's true for you" is the mantra of the post-modernist). I think it is this aspect of society that is being highlighted in the comments leading up to this exchange. > > true, it is not an ideal situation, and I am in know way religious. But > they acted as a guide and the simple existance of a book of rules which > people read helps (bible , Torah etc...) The problem we have here is > one best described by Douglas adams "any person whos wants to be > presedent shouldn't be" and the same is true for the church, > unfortunatly like most big institutions it becam corrupt. > > > Intelligence and understanding should be the teachers of humanity. > > And how > > are people going to be intelligent or understanding without a fair > > chance > > in life? > > And in history who where the few literate people? the church, who would > then be able to guide people? the church. who had medical knowlegde? > the church. As mentioned above, corruption becomes possible through the concentration of such power (assertion : knowledge=power) in the hands of a select few. > > The church has been the corner stone of our society for so long and > although bits of it are corrupt it's overall effect has been a good > one. Good being a relative term, had the Church not survived beyond the 1st Century we cannot say whether the final result would have been good or bad. (ie better or worse than what actually happened) > > > There's nowt as strange as folks. > > So true. Hope this doesn't offend the religious persuasions of anyone on the list.. Regards Earl

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Also can people not reply to the poster and the list, just the list > will do. Now this is an age-old debate. Some people (including myself) actually quite like to get cc's, as it means that those actively involved in the discussion get responses to their messages quicker than if it's bounced via the list server first. However, others dislike the duplicate messages. There is no right answer to this one, I suspect.

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Language, Education, Religion and History
by John Seago 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Interestingly the grammer/spelling discussion has now reached the point where it touches upon religion. It is (probably mistakenly) my understanding that European Christianity owes its current position to the decision taken by the Roman Empire to use it as an extension of its political influence. However if one looks at the other institution used to extend the political influence of the Roman Empire, the Roman Army, the latter is currently older than the Church. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > EUROPEAN STANDARD ENGLISH Forwarded ancient mass-forwarded xenophobic "joke". > which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of infleunce > of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on > moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there > off spring. Irrelevant introduction of religion into the discussion of morals. Yep, this should start a small flame-war. Can people take this off-list, or at least trim quotes very heavily when replying, please? Thanks.

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

David Freeman wrote: >ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU! I like that. Have you read that Ray Bradbury story where a guy goes back in time and steps on a butterfly and when he returns to the present the language has changed just like this? >The problem >is parenting ansd socail responsiblity aren't impressed upon people, >which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of infleunce >of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on >moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there >off spring. Jen's soapbox of the day: Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Religion is responsible for a lot of bad stuff. Religion was made to control, and the people in charge of it abuse their power. Morality through fear is not a solution. Intelligence and understanding should be the teachers of humanity. And how are people going to be intelligent or understanding without a fair chance in life? There's nowt as strange as folks. Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by David Freeman 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

--- Laurie Brown <laurie(a)brownowl.com> wrote: > David Freeman wrote: > > > > All, > > > > My web site has now gone alpha. So could I ask for people to take a > > look and let me know of any bugs, speiling misstakes etc... Also > > constructive criticism would be nice. > > > > http://freemadi.alug.org.uk/ > > Before I get flamed for daring to speak the unspeakable, to whit: > grammar and > spelling *are* important, and that the results of trendy education > methods and > piss-poor teaching are a serious disservice to our young people, > note: I agree completely and admit that my english is crap. As for the education system, just don't get me started. > IMO, written English is no more difficult to master than any > programming > langauge, except that one doesn't need to compile English... Clear > communication is no less important, however, and going public on a > web site > *requires* that it be at least close to correct. The sole reason so > many > youngsters can't spell or write, is down to the education system and > crappy > teachers, abetted by the acceptance of poor standards by the world at > large. I > wonder, for instance, how so many people get through tertiary > education when > they can't write to save their lives (we all know examples). Again, I agree to the point I would say that a programming lnaguages and human lnaguages are very much the same sort of things but on different levels. Each has the sma e general constructs but under different terms, compare syntax and Grammer. Then add in correct spelling and a wide vocabulary, we have language. The problem comes from so much redundency which we add into the interpretation and thus make poor compilers. Take for example. Chocolate me need. me need chocolate I require a cocoa based product with added milk and sucrose sumplement. as you can see english has a lot of syntatic sugar, which isn't required for understanding to be had, this si where natural language processing comes in. Each sentence has verbs, adjectives etc... and the processor just processes the sentence for such words and treats them as objects. foe example the sentence "chocolcate me need" has the objects of me and chololate with the relation ship of "need" thrown in as "me" needing it. The problem we have is in our compilers or lexical analysis. We will parse the sentence a number of times in attempts to make sense of it, if after an arbitary number of passes we decide it doesn't make sense we barf an error. Where Computer languages come into there own is that the language is very strict in the constructs which are allowed and the lexical analysis is somewhat poor (compared to a human). As such Programmers and hackers tend to command a better than average use of their native language through this need for above average levels of accuracy. So to summerise, language has too much syntatic sugar which allows for interpretation from mal formed sentences where a Parse error whould be through. but through years of use we have go lasy and our interpreters have "improved" to the point that we no longer require such sytatic sugar and can use the language in a much reduced way. To summerise, english is a robust language to sumerise the summery of the summary: people are a problem. > Anyway, David, my initial comments: the site is so full of > grammatical and > spelling errors that it shouldn't be considered anything near ready > for > release. I'd suggest that if you have a problem with spelling, > grammar and > syntax, you get someone who hasn't to proof-read and correct it for > you before > you publish. This is what I thought which is why it is alpha not beta. It may now be apparent why I use Bascule as a nick at times. Also the purpose of sending it to the list was for it to be proof read, and I am greatfull of your input on this. > I picked up the following on a quick read-through, certainly there > are some I > missed. Please don't ask me to do this again! Thank you, I will get it into a high beta stage with as many mistakes as possible removed. > First para could do with a sprinkling of commas and/or > colons/semi-colons as it > has too many fragmented sentences: actually, this applies throughout > the site. > Additionally, there is a lot of random capitalisation of words, and > many words > uncapitalised when they should be. I stopped picking this up after a > while. Does any one know of a good site which explains the correct use of colons, semi colons and comas? Also what exactly is meant by fragmentation, word sometimes brings it up by I never knew what that means. Thanks for the input, it is very helpful Thanks D <snip my appaling spelling> > > Cheers, Laurie. > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Laurie Brown > laurie(a)brownowl.com > PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Andrew Savory wrote: >Sorry, but I don't agree. Written English is a heck of a lot harder to >master than programming. Most programming languages have a right and a >wrong way: ie, black and white, works or doesn't. They have a very limited >syntax and often there are many easily accessible books written on how to >program in a given language. >English, on the other hand, has too many shades of grey to make it easy to >master. Syntax, grammatical rules, spelling: all these things change based >not just on what country you're in but often depending on the region of a >country. In English, it's very difficult to pin down 'write' and wrong, >once you get beyond the basics of spelling and grammar. It becomes much >more subjective and more difficult to define. I agree. Teaching a small child to read and write brings it home just how erratic the english language can be. I think a few hundred years ago it may have made more sense, when "when" was spoken aloud with the "h" being audible, and the "k" in "knee" or "knight" also was heard. But look at bough, cough, through. As a small child, language is learnt first by ear then by reading. So any input at that age is more likely to result in proper spelling and grammer if the parents of a small child talk to them properly, and later if they are encouraged to read the written word. >Hmmm... again, I think it's easy to blame the education system and "trendy >methods" for falling standards, but I think a portion of the blame should >also be directed at the parents and society. TV doesn't encourage reading >and writing; the fast food disposable lifestyles we live also prohibit >attention to detail and focus on results over accuracy. Well, that one starts off a whole new debate on responsibility - who is responsible in this society and for what. Can you point a finger at a parent who sits their kid in front of the telly stuffing hamburgers when it is the way they were brought up themselves? At what point does someone have to face the fact that each person is ultimately responsible for themselves? (I don't know what I think the answer to this one is, it all makes me a bit confused). Laurie Brown wrote: >I've learnt that my views on grammar and written >English differ a little from most other people's... Oh yes, how is that? Jenny

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > I disagree :-) I have seen how perl scripts can be (and are) written, I > find english is far easier for me than programming. Of course I am crap at > both though.... Perl was designed to reflect the richness and idiom of natural languages in a programming language, hence the "there's more than one way to do it" banner. Whether or not that is a good thing is a long argument which has been had many times before and I believe certain people here can testify to the fact that perl scripts from speakers of different languages have different styles. What is also sure is that a number of languages now pride themselves on the fact that "there's one best way to do it" in their language. > Anyway I don't want to get drawn further into this debate, as I know that > you will hear me start to rant about education! I always think that I was lucky to get such a traditional education in the time when "trendy teaching" was at its peak. I feel really sorry for the people who, for example, never had their spelling corrected because it would demoralise them and have had to put in lots of work to turn it around. I don't have much sympathy for those who don't put in the work and just blame education for the bad spelling, though ;-)

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Ha ha! Just realised that I spelt "grammar" wrong in the last thread! What a gaffe!

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RE: alug digest, Vol 1 #302 - 13 msgs
by Earl Brannigan 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Hi Dave, David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> wrote : > > > > > > Are there any Crypto specialists on the list? > > I should have thought crypting was something you were expert at! > > Is this a fancy way of saying my messages are a we bit cryptic? or that > you thought this was something I did? No, "crypting" was a favourite pasteime of Bascule.... > > > sorry... completely useless post. > > Not really too kind. Cheers Earl

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Re: [Alug] Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Hi again all, Somebody has forwarded me the old IRC reminder, which I have included here. I'll sort out the cron job now ;) Reegards Neill > > This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that > there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. > > The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the > #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more > info on the openprojects network. > > Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and > Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. > > Unix > > http://www.bitchx.com > http://www.xchat.org > http://freshmeat.net > http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) > > Windows > > http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!) > -- Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

OK, as I'm sure most of you have read, Adam and Zeus have gone their seperate ways, and the weekly IRC reminder cron job has disapeared. I've been asked to set this up temporarly on one of our machines. The biggest problem is that I have always deleted the IRC reminders as soon as I get them, as I never forget to login ;) so, I don't have the words that used to be sent out! If somebody has an archived copy then let me have it. If not, I'll just make up some random words along the lines of "ALUG IRC meeting tonight, server: irc.openprojects.net, join #alug". there you have it, a slightly different weekly reminder for all those lurkers out there ;) Hope to see some new people this evening Regards Neill -- Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368

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Meeting of the 12th of August
by John Seago 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Unfortunately I shall not be able to attend the meeting planned for the 12th of August, as I have a prior engagement. I was looking forward to meeting some of those whose names appear on the the daily digest, but I will have to wait until the following meeting. John Seago

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Connection Trauma
by David Howe 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Hello having a spot of bother.... I have just built a new box as follows Mandrake 7.1 Cyrix M2 333MHz (I know - cyrix - but it only cost me £20 so I wasn't gonna say no) 128 Ram ppp0 = External Dynamode modem eth0 = Via-rhine this is on 10.10.10.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 this machine connects to the net fine (tada! here I am) I also have (don't hit me please) a Win2K workstation (10.10.10.100), both are on 10Mbs LAN and ftp, http and SMB is fine between the two. Win2K machine is looking to 10.10.10.200 for web pages (for example) but is not getting any further i.e. getting no imformation from 10.10.10.200's ppp0 connection. ppp0 was set up in linuxconf rather than kppp and connects fine at boot and the "set default route" option is checked. I have no default route set as Linuxconf help suggested not to for ppp connections as they sort it themselves What haven't I done?? or what have I done wrong?? which processes should I look for to be running that probably aren't?? any help and sympathy appreciated Dave

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Which Linux distibution, please?
by Ruleng＠aol.com 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Subj: Which Linux distribution, please? Date: 13/07/01 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Hello again, Everyone. I e-mailed alug a short while ago asking for help with the mini-distribution, muLinux. I still have not got that sorted out, but I am now in a different situation. By an incredible fluke that I will not bore you all with I have got my 40X CDROM drive running. I would now like to ask the group which distribution of Linux I should, or could, install. I will recap the hardware that I have in case my previous note has been mislaid. chip: i486DX 33MHz, upgraded to 133 MHz with Evergreen chip. hdd0: 210 Mb. with MSDOS 6.2 ( 4DOS addon) and Windows for Workgroups hdd1: 450 Mb. partitioned 240 Mb. for DOS and Windows, 210 Mb. for a Linux OS. ( Do I need another partition for Swap?). fdd0: 1.44 Mb. 40X CDROM drive. 16 Mb. RAM Both muLinux and Hal91 Boot+Root floppies. Oh yes: a 70-year-old brain. If there is not enough disk space for a recommended distribution, would it be possible for me to use only part of it at first, and which parts should a novice select? I would appreciate any advice that you could give me. Regards, Norman

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RE: alug digest, Vol 1 #300 - 25 msgs
by David Freeman 15 Jul '01

15 Jul '01

--- Earl Brannigan <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> wrote: > Hi Dave > > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com>wrote : > > Jen aka Ergates is also from feersum endjinn as well. > Of course, it didn't click.... No it typed and clicked, and I think she normally breathes as well as a whole host of functions :o) > > > > All, > > > > I have booked Martlesham heath scout hut for the 12th august 2001. > > > > So the next meet will be sunday 12th August. > I think I can just make that date...... > > > > I will be inviting some members of GLLUG and LONIX. > LONIX sound alright but the other lot would probably drink all the > beer! ;o) > > > > > > ALso Don't forget the LUG BBQ afterwoods. How could I..... will we be burning Lugites at the steak? No but we may linch the NSD users and as for the MS certified sys admin we have on the list, well I cna't say before 9pm > > > > Are there any Crypto specialists on the list? > I should have thought crypting was something you were expert at! Is this a fancy way of saying my messages are a we bit cryptic? or that you thought this was something I did? > sorry... completely useless post. Not really Thanks D > Cheers > Earl ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Going Alpha
by David Freeman 15 Jul '01

15 Jul '01

All, My web site has now gone alpha. So could I ask for people to take a look and let me know of any bugs, speiling misstakes etc... Also constructive criticism would be nice. http://freemadi.alug.org.uk/ Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Test
by MJ Ray 15 Jul '01

15 Jul '01

Apologies all. We seem to have had some problems with this list, so I'm trying to debug them with this test message. If you see it, all is working again.

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Re: [Alug] Bascule
by MJ Ray 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

Brett Parker <brettp(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> writes: > > Of course, you were *told* you had to be Neo, and you've been iDunno > > for what, *weeks* now? > Erm - months, at least 2 of, afaicr... Doesn't change that it's "weeks" too... or are we running on Brett Time? Or Internet Time(tm)?

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Re: [Alug] Bascule
by MJ Ray 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

Brett Parker <brettp(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> writes: > Erm, what for? I was just told I had to use Neo way back then, I've been > iDunno for the last god-knows-how-long :p Of course, you were *told* you had to be Neo, and you've been iDunno for what, *weeks* now? I love cognitive dissonance.

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Re: [Alug] Sending information between databases
by MJ Ray 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > If you were exporting data and you didn't know who was going to use it, > then you might consider XML. Also, if the two databases are complex and differ, exporting to XML, doing some transformation and importing XML into the target database may have some value, but the right way to do it is to try to avoid the situation, I think ;-)

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Sending information between databases
by Ashley T. Howes 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

(This isn't a pure linux question, but I hope you can help) What is a good system for sending information between databases, with minimal human interaction? Situation is that someone has a database in one location, another person has another copy. The list of tables/fields between the 2 databases is not exactly the same, but have several tables in common. The two databases could be synched with a lot of human work, but is there a method to do this automatically - perhaps sending XML between the two? Anyone got experience in doing this sort of stuff? Ashley

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Any secret admirers
by David Freeman 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

Are there any Crypto specialists on the list? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Bascule
by MJ Ray 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > I take there has been a report on this kind of activity. DOes anyone > have any details please? I can't remember which one, but I think it was Yahoo!. Basically, their advertising sales team was going out and trying to sell ad space on their web mail with the demographics and behavioural data on their users. Of course, this all came from the adverts, not from the actual emails, but the user tracking in there was active and it did tell them more than you really want known about you. It seems to me that it's only a small step to doing analysis on the actual emails to see how to market more effectively at you, and in some legislations that would be perfectly legal.

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Re: [Alug] Bascule
by MJ Ray 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > Compare and contrast against Bascule. > Whats that supposed to mean? I've seen quite a few Bascules, too. > Is this a Joke I am missing or have I pissed a seira owner off who will > want revenge? Look at the IRC nickname list, recently posted here. > We have no personal privacy any way so why does it matter. We all have some privacy. It's just a case of some people are willing to give it all away very cheaply. > If people want to read my emails they are most welcome, [...] And most of mine, but damned if I want them doing it in a co-ordinated systematic manner as part of a marketing machine. > [...] Provide me witha solution which will work on any platform > on any network connection. I believe there are secure web mail sites out there.

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Re: [Alug] Bascule
by MJ Ray 12 Jul '01

12 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > People who use neo are coppy cat wannabees who thing they are haxors > etc... sorry but they are just sad people who will get nowhere, bloody > script kiddies. Compare and contrast against Bascule. Oh, and you should probably watch out for a drive-by incident with a brown Sierra any time now. > You can usually tell how long someone has been online by weather or > not they have any numbers after ther name in an email address from > places like hotmail and yahoo mail. I say that you can tell how long someone has been online by whether they know enough to avoid these dumb american web mails and the amount of personal privacy lost by using them. > Few people use the name akula, and I found out why, put two K's in it > and it becomes serb for Twat! Did you misspell that too? ;-)

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Tempest True type font
by David Freeman 12 Jul '01

12 Jul '01

Does anyone know of a true type font which should screw up tempest equipment? I know pgp shipped with one but I need a free anti-tempest font. Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Bascule
by MJ Ray 12 Jul '01

12 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > slef: Because a typo of self is very original. :o) Compare number of slefs against number of Bascules (or Neos for that matter).

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