- main - earth.li

Re: [Alug] new graphics card
by MJ Ray 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > >If you are prepared to face the possibility that X may refuser to > >work and that you'd have to come back for more help, I would install > >this new package (xserver-s3) and say yes when it asks you if you > >want to make it the default. > I'd be surprised if the outcome was any different... Why? You have an s3, install an s3 xserver package. apt-get install xserver-s3 That will hopefully do the trick... if not, I'll try to be on IRC this evening to figure out more. -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Re: [Alug] Replys (video digitising)
by MJ Ray 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

"Lincoln, Michael C" <mclinc(a)essex.ac.uk> writes: > What the alug list needs is a replyto: in the header... No, it does not. We've been here before. A quick refresher: 1/ If alug doesn't set a reply-to, people just need to remember to use "reply to all" when they want to reply to all. This seems a reasonable requirement to me. 2/ If alug sets a reply-to, people pressing "reply to author" actually "reply to all", which is clearly broken. 3/ If alug sets a reply-to, the original value of the reply-to header is lost for all time, which may be bad. 4/ Some people (including me) like to get a copy of replies to my message faster than the list server passes them on. If you don't it's fairly easy to filter off things which have a list in the cc. 5/ There's also the wooly point that many of us are using Linux because we like something which follows reasonable standards and don't want to see it become another gaggle of conflicting closed shops. Therefore, alug will not break standards and screw the headers. PS - main(a)lists.alug.org.uk is where this list now lives. alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk will "go away" soon. Please update yourself. -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Test- is this in HTML?
by Ricardo Campos 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

If this damned account only sends in HTML, I'll be quite annoyed. Does anyone on this list have a non-HTML supporting e-mail client? I spose there would have been the same problem with my hotmail acct.... Ricardo <<-- formerly of corez23(a)hotmail.com Now using another multinational corporate mail system. But this one's cuter. :P -->> -- Love Ricardo, "Surely this monstrous hybrid comes not from a mother's womb but from an Ephialtes, an Incubus, or some other horrendous demon, as though spawned in a putrid and venemous fungus, son of Fauns and Nymphs, more Devil than man." -Athanasius Kircher, Mundus Subtarraneus, Amsterdam, 1665, pp.279-280 http://www.rscampos.net Get your @hellokitty.com FREE e-mail account at http://www.sanriotown.com Sanrio Town - Your Ultimate Community to meet Sanrio character & friends. Powered by Outblaze

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video digitising
by Syd Hancock 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

Does anyone here have any experience of digitising analogue video in linux? I am looking for advice on what capture card (mid-range e.g. Pinnacle DC10plus) to use and possibly a tv tuner card. In particular, if anyone does use a DC10plus I'd be very interested to make contact as I'd like to see one in use if possible. Also can anyone comment on the current state of play with ATI graphic cards and linux? Some of their cards seem to do all that I want but... Thanks Syd

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re:Libraries
by Ricardo Campos 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

Hey, I can answer my own question. Luckily the boss isn't in! Surfing for me! ;) ... This has to be done by root, and is only necessary for MDK 8.x >ld --whole-archive -shared-o /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.so.1 >/usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.a >rpm -Uvh xine-lib-xv-*.rpm --nodeps >ldconfig Other Redhatters merely have to: >rpm -Uvh *.rpm >ldconfig there seems to be about 5 million libraries and extra packages you need to d/l. Well, actually 4.9 million. Darn this CSS business. (Not that I would use the De-CSS plugin, of course. ;) Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Libraries.
by Ricardo Campos 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

a question about those ever-present (or not as the case is) libraries. I'm trying to get xine up and running. First I did it via the RPM for my distro. It said it needed "LibXv.so.1", but I forced the install. Obviously it said "I need LibXv.so.1" when I tried to run it. So then I uninstalled it, and compiled the Xine src file, the Xine GUI, and the Xine libs. Same problem. In /X11R6/libs there is a file called LibXv.a, opening it in Konqueror invokes the archiver program, and contained within is LibXv.o . Now is this a precursor to LibXv.so.1 ? If so, how can I alter it? Obviously the Xine libs doesn't contain all the libs I need- I suppose that it is an Xfree86 server library. I'm using a fairly current version of X, although not the newest available on my MDK system (the newer version, for some reason, wouldn't allow my computer to boot properly) so it should be more-or-less up to date. I have the most up-to-date stable source for Xfree86, but I'm really not sure whether I should try installing that, incase it hangs on bootup again. Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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WWW Patents & Royalties
by John Seago 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

The deadline for public comments on the above matter hasbeen extended to the 11th of October. All those wo havenowish to contribute to Bill Gates personal fortune, should at least see to it that their opinions are aired. See: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20011004_eff_w3c_patent_alert.html and nodoubt other comments on the matter in the Register and other fora. John seago

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server uk.openprojects.net" or "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: [Alug] Test - please ignore
by MJ Ray 07 Oct '01

07 Oct '01

Ashley <ash(a)blueskyresearch.net> writes: > Just testing to make sure headers are set to come through to list ok Please use the social list if you want to play. Technical test messages to the main list may result in one of the following undesirable results: - being held for approval in future - being booted - a free subscription to the clueless list - me making sarky comments to the list - nothing ...depending on the moods of the list admins ;-) -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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insmod
by oms101＠freeuk.com 06 Oct '01

06 Oct '01

Dear All I finally took the plunge to install debian because my CDwriter has been playing up (its barely working) anyway, I got debian installed and it seems quite nice but a little under setup but that may be a strength. The 2.2.17 kernel I felt could do with an update, so I compiled the 2.4.8 kernel using the SuSe configuration for their 2.2 kernel in their 7.0 distibution. With this setup I performed my first successful kernel compile, ( I have tried 5 times before but it just takes to long with a P200MMX computer ) I then realised that I had to compile the modules and install them (with make) which meant that it must have taken at least 6 hours. Anyway after all this effort I now have a dewbian system with a 2.4.8 kernal that boots but still cant find the modules, I rearly need TCP/IP so I can continue to setup the system unfortunately this is a module. Anyone with some debian experiance please help Owen. PS insmod /usr/lib/modules/../../sg.o insmod /usr/lib/modules/../../ide-scsi.o does apear to load the scsi system and not work properly so I guess the modules do exist OK Date: 06-Oct-01 Time: 15:19:41

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Re: [Alug] Jinxed!
by Ricardo Campos 06 Oct '01

06 Oct '01

>$HOME/.xmms/config $HOME meaning my (as in the user's) home directory? i.e. /home/ricardo/ or just /home/ ? Cos it's definitely not in /home/ricardo/ , that's the first place I looked. > > Brownie points lost by Linux = 20 > >Sure, let's see you hack the registry keys it stored its settings in >as easily ;-) No need to. uninstall usually removes settings, reinstall adds defaults. The only reg hacking I've had to do is on servers, but you expect to fiddle on a server. I'm just getting grumpy because things either a) never work or b) work for a short period, then fall over. It IS frustrating when you know that you *COULD* boot into M$W2K and do everything I use my home computer for, crash-free. (Believe it or not, I have only experienced 1 or 2 crashes- and that was when I was running a default installation of IIS, unpatched... and u can guess what happened!) Then it was off to d/l the patch and get the Service Pack from Technet, and all is hunky dory. But I'm determined........ And I've always wanted a Penguin. ;) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Test - please ignore
by Ashley 06 Oct '01

06 Oct '01

Just testing to make sure headers are set to come through to list ok -- Ashley T. Howes PhD www.ashleyhowes.com "When all the animals of this world are gone, man will die of loneliness"

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new graphics card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 06 Oct '01

06 Oct '01

I've just replaced a faulty graphics card in the dualboot machine at home, and was wondering how to let the linux part know it has an S3 Trio64V rather than a Whatever-it-was? I ran XF86Config from a command line, but got all the header and footers for each section in XF86Config come up with "command not found". A search on google showed the driver "accel" can be used with this card....I'm not sure how to activate this driver, or if I can just edit XF86Config by hand. Or how to find if debian has the driver "accel". Or anything much really. Ta, Jenny.

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Parking in Cambridge
by John Seago 06 Oct '01

06 Oct '01

I'm told that using the Park-and-ride is the best way to deal with parking in Cambridge, there's a Park-and -ride just by the Airport. That's assuming that mostofthe membership will be coming from the East, but it does'nt solvethe problems of those who want to bring their machines with them. Having looked at the Cambridge LUG site it might be possible that they could make their cellar availble. John seago

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Re: [Alug] Re: Future meetings
by MJ Ray 06 Oct '01

06 Oct '01

Ducttape <dif2(a)ukc.ac.uk> writes: > I have finally got my mail working so its time for me to rejoin alug. > > A group here at kent uni are looking to create a LUG, we could try and > sync the meetings at the UEA and see if we can get a video link working > (Janet connection at each end, hurrah)? what do people think? I think UEA may have just lost their normal venue, as there seem to be ballroom dancers in there on Sundays now. > Thanks > > D - Will be at the next meeting to collect a fridge^hvax -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Re: [Alug] `Microsoft' � advertising on ALUG main
by MJ Ray 06 Oct '01

06 Oct '01

John Seago <john.seago(a)nutshell.net> writes: > This is just a suggestion, offering a guide to alternative free Email > not an ivitation for rebarbative remarks. (I have no wish to offend, I've even less wish to offend. There's a whole category in the Open Directory (http://www.dmoz.org/ and mirrors), many of which are more reliable and less bundled. -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Re: [Alug] Jinxed!
by MJ Ray 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

"Ricardo Campos" <corez23(a)hotmail.com> writes: > $HOME meaning my (as in the user's) home directory? i.e. /home/ricardo/ > or just /home/ ? /home/ricardo/ or similar. > Cos it's definitely not in /home/ricardo/ , that's the first place I looked. How did you look? XMMS stores its settings in $HOME/.xmms usually. To do otherwise is to be using a hacked-up source, I think. -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Trick of the day.
by MJ Ray 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Want a Palm or Psion copy of a document? Load it into abiword and save it out as one, then! Yes, I know it's been there a while, but I only just found it ;-) -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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`Microsoft' ® advertising on ALUG main
by John Seago 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

If you go to :- http://www.microsuxx.com/ you can get Email that does'nt print adverts for `Microsoft' ® products on the ALUG main, (or any of the other lists). This is just a suggestion, offering a guide to alternative free Email not an ivitation for rebarbative remarks. (I have no wish to offend, having begun my postings to this list via `Outlook' ®). John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Parking in Cambridge
by John Seago 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Reply to: john.seago(a)nutshell.net On Friday 05 October 2001 4:37 am, you wrote: > John Seago <john.seago(a)nutshell.net> writes: > > [...] Having looked at the Cambridge LUG site it might be possible > > that they could make their cellar availble. > > How many cars can they fit in their cellar? Sorry poor grammar and phrasing. See the Cambridge LUG site for details on `their' cellar and the activities carried out therein. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Jinxed!
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Ricardo Campos wrote: >It IS frustrating when you know that you *COULD* boot into M$W2K and do >everything I use my home computer for, But where's the fun in that? ;-) Jen.

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RE: [Alug] Parking in Cambridge
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Simon Parkes wrote> >I can organise the meeting in Red Lodge for the 28th Oct if wanted... Suits me, sir. It's the end of half-term week, don't know if that affects anyone...? Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] Jinxed!
by MJ Ray 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

"Ricardo Campos" <corez23(a)hotmail.com> writes: > any conf files, so I assume that it is stored in a conf file for my log in. > Where is this? $HOME/.xmms/config > Brownie points lost by Linux = 20 Sure, let's see you hack the registry keys it stored its settings in as easily ;-) -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Re: [Alug] Parking in Cambridge
by MJ Ray 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

John Seago <john.seago(a)nutshell.net> writes: > [...] Having looked at the Cambridge LUG site it might be possible that > they could make their cellar availble. How many cars can they fit in their cellar? -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Jinxed!
by Ricardo Campos 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

As soon as I get going, something goes wrong again.... I was using XMMS, and decided to play one of the plug-ins, 'blur'. It was quite cool. I turned XMMS off, came to my computer the next day and hey presto! Opening an MP3 or OGG file, or just clicking on the XMMS applet brings up the plug in window that either a) hangs ad infinitum ad nauseum -until I Xkill it b) comes up then the window disappears. This occurs in Gnome AND KDE. I'm using MDK8.0 I'm pretty sure it must be the plug in, as it was the only thing that changed. I've looked in /usr/shar/apps/xmms but it doesn't appear to have any conf files, so I assume that it is stored in a conf file for my log in. Where is this? Brownie points lost by Linux = 20 Ricardo, "Surely this monstrous hybrid comes not from a mother's womb but from an Ephialtes, an Incubus, or some other horrendous demon, as though spawned in a putrid and venemous fungus, son of Fauns and Nymphs, more Devil than man." -Athanasius Kircher, Mundus Subtarraneus, Amsterdam, 1665, pp.279-280 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [Alug] PCMCIA modems
by Peter Delf 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

I managed to get my LT modem in my Toshiba laptop working by downloading the driver sources from a link on linmodems.org, installing the kernel-headers and running one of the scripts (I think it was called 'make_deb') in the driver distribution. They also include scripts like 'make_rpm' for other distros packaging systems. For more info please email me. Just thought it might give you hope. I'm still quite the fresh faced newbie but my learning curve has been very steep of late. Pete http://www.uea.ac.uk/u9947868

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Re: [Alug] Re: Future meetings
by MJ Ray 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > Sometime in November would be a good I guess as it is getting a little > late to do October IMHO at such short notice and with a bit extra time we > could try and do a bit of extra advertising. If UEA people can get in touch and get their act together, 28th Oct is still a possibility. I'll put a request out on UEA's internal newsgroups. If we go for Red Lodge, who's going to be publicity czar? -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Re: [Alug] Meetings
by MJ Ray 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

John Seago <john.seago(a)nutshell.net> writes: > As there would seem to be some interest in holding a meeting in Cambridge, > perhaps whoever it is who organises such things could try organising a > joint meeting with Cambridge Lug. I think even if it's just near Cambridge, we should invite them as a matter of courtesy. I'm cc'ing this to Cam-LUG to see if they're interested in a weekend meeting at Red Lodge in November. Hopefully their list respects reply-to headers and we'll now have a short cross-over. -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.

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Meetings, Cambridge, an afterthought
by John Seago 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

I used to be the Regional Secretary of a voluntary body, and had occasion to organise a group meeting in Cambridge. I had it pointed out to me after the meeting that parking in Cambridge is an extremely difficult exercise. My wife pointed out to me when I failed to grasp this point, that while we could park very near to where we were going, having an `Orange Badge' meant that we were parking for 6 hours,at no cost in an `on road space' where others were having to pay £3.00 an hour. John Seago

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Meetings
by John Seago 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

As there would seem to be some interest in holding a meeting in Cambridge, perhaps whoever it is who organises such things could try organising a joint meeting with Cambridge Lug. John Seago

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RE: [Alug] Re: Future meetings
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Simon parkes wrote: >Ok, I've got the prices for the room, it's big enough for around 40 people, >coffee machine available, bar in the same building from 11am -> 3pm, but >it's a bit pricey at ?5.60 per hour... That is only £2 each if ten people turn up, which isn't a lot. Less than a pint of the beer, anyway. Go for it. Unless you want to guarantee at least ten will be there first to cover costs? Cheveley even better as free, but sounds like it might be more of a hassle for you to organise.

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Announce digest, Vol 1 #4 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** oMMMoMo Mo MMMMMMMoMo " "o"o"o"o oMMMoMoM oMMMMMM"MMM" " " " " " "o"o "oMMMoMMM " oMo"M"oo MM" " MoMoMMMMMMM oM " " "oMMM " " MoMMMMMoMoMoooo Mo MMM MoMoMMMMMoMMMMM o" MoM " MoMM "MMo"oMoMMMoM"" MM " MMMMo MMMMMoMMMMMM" oM " MoMMM MMMoMMMo"MM Mo" "MMoMo ooMMMMMMMoMo" oMo oMoMMM " "oMoMMMoMoMo MoM oMoMMM MMMMMMMMMoMMM "oM oMoMMM "M"M"MMoMMMo" " o "oo " MMMM" MMMMMoMoM o" " "oM " " " "o MMMoMMMo"o M " oM " " MMMMMMMoMo o" "oMoMoooMo" " o " " MMoMMMoMoMo " "o"o MM"""""""oM oM " "MMo oMMMMMoMMMoMo " """ """ " o"MMMMoMMMoMMMo"MMo"o" o o o oo MMMMMMoMMMoMMMoMoMo MMMMM MMMo oMMM MMMo MMoMMM oMoMMMoMMMoMMMoMMMo"o oMMMMM MMMo oMMM "MMo MMM "MM MMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMM" " " MMo"MMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" """ " MoMMMoMMMoMMMo" " " MMMoMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM"oMoMo " "MMoMMMoMMM " " MMMMMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" "MM oMMMoMoMoMMMoMMMoMo" " oMM" "oMM" "MMMMM" "MMMMM" MMMoMM" ooMMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMoMo "M" " " " " " """ """ "oM """oMM" " " "MMoMMMoMMMoMM" " " " " " " " alug-announce : The Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group Today's Topics: 1. [uklugs] CD leafletting campaign, UK - new date Saturday 7-Oct (MJ Ray) 2. [Antonio Barry <Antonio.Barry(a)unidirect.co.uk>] Anti Virus Linus options (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 21 Sep 2001 23:34:21 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce] [uklugs] CD leafletting campaign, UK - new date Saturday 7-Oct Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:27:43 +0100 Subject: [uklugs] CD leafletting campaign, UK - new date Saturday 7-Oct From: Jim Peters <jim(a)uazu.net> Hopefully you saw my original E-mail outlining our plans for a UK leafletting day to raise awareness about the DMCA, the EUCD and the case of Dmitry Sklyarov, based on the issue of the copy-protected CDs currently being released into this country. We feel that not only is this something that the public should be aware of (nearly everybody uses CDs), but also that this is a way for them to start to understand what the DMCA/EUCD issue is all about: http://uazu.net/cd/email.html Our original leafletting day was cancelled due to the WTC disaster, but we have now set a new date - Saturday 7th October. At the very least, please consider checking out the background to this campaign on the link below. In brief, I would recommend you try extracting a track or two out of *any* new CD you buy, even if you aren't going to need it in MP3 format immediately, just to be sure. If you'd like to join us handing out leaflets on the 7th, please follow the links on the site for more details: http://uazu.net/cd/ http://uk.eurorights.org/ Many thanks - Jim -- Jim Peters (_)/=\~/_(_) Uazú (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) jim@ (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) www. uazu.net (_) ____ /=\ ____ ~/_ ____ (_) uazu.net --__--__-- Message: 2 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 27 Sep 2001 13:39:08 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce] [Antonio Barry <Antonio.Barry(a)unidirect.co.uk>] Anti Virus Linus options Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:19:02 +0100 From: Antonio Barry <Antonio.Barry(a)unidirect.co.uk> Subject: FW: Anti Virus Linus options Dear Sirs If possible I would like to request that this is forwarded on to as many linux users/developers as possible, UniDirect (UK) limited is a Unix/Linux based distributor and we have recently announced a new vendor relationship with Kaspersky Labs, Kaspersky Labs is a world leading Anti Virus protection with a strong focus on Linux, Please view product details at http://www.kaspersky.com/products.asp?tgroup=4&pgroup=11 [...] Kind Regards Antonio Barry Emerging Technologies Manager UniDirect Limited Main Office Line 01788 550000 Main Fax Line 01788 551129 Mobile 07967 686705 Why not visit our website www.unidirect.co.uk --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Re: [Alug] Anti-Virus at SMTP level
by MJ Ray 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

"Martyn Drake" <martyn(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > Just to inform everyone that I've just installed Amavis along with > Sophos Anti-Virus on the main Alug server to ensure that no nasty SirCam > viruses (which yes, unfortunately, people are still sending to us) get > out and about. I was sick of having to respond to people asking them to > either install anti-virus software on their Windoze boxes or to get > their definitions updated. Amavis responds automatically to infected > senders to ensure they do keep their anti-virus software going. Wouldn't it be rather simpler to use the common filter rules to trap and kill the worst offenders (eg SirCam) than it is to install a large insecure mail filter on your server? Fix the problems where they occur and 99% of virus problems are on the clients. Only when it reaches a DoS problem is server tweaking a good idea. -- MJR I work for this clever Internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Anti-Virus at SMTP level
by Martyn Drake 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Hi folks, Just to inform everyone that I've just installed Amavis along with Sophos Anti-Virus on the main Alug server to ensure that no nasty SirCam viruses (which yes, unfortunately, people are still sending to us) get out and about. I was sick of having to respond to people asking them to either install anti-virus software on their Windoze boxes or to get their definitions updated. Amavis responds automatically to infected senders to ensure they do keep their anti-virus software going. Any messages in or out of these mailing lists will be scanned for any viruses and should anybody does send one, it'll be stopped and nuked along with a message sent to the sender to ensure they keep their virus scanners up to date (or to get one in the first place!). For those that don't know what Amavis is, take a look at http://www.amavis.org - it integrates incredibly well into Sendmail, Exim and Qmail. Regards, Martyn

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PCMCIA modems
by Christopher Drane 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

After much surfing, scratching my head, asking many questions, failed installs, newbe stupidity and to much to drink, i have come to the conclusion that my LT winmodem is not going to work with my laptop. This brings me to my question, or 2 Will a PCMCIA modem work (as long as its not a winmodem)? or What about a USB modem, is there a preferance between the two? I would not ask such questions if adverts in the computer mags would tell you if products are linux supported. Just don't want to buy a new modem and find it won't work.

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RE: [Alug] Re: Future meetings
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Sinmon Parkes wrote: >I'm trying to set something up here in Red Lodge as spoken about last month, >just waiting for prices.... That would be great (just up the road from me). Would that be for this month? Cambridge would be good for a meeting- I've been racking my brains to think of somewhere, also wondered if the majority of list members from Norfolk area would travel this far though. Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] Re: Future meetings
by MJ Ray 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > Cambridge would be good for a meeting- I've been racking my brains to think > of somewhere, also wondered if the majority of list members from Norfolk > area would travel this far though. I don't think either Norfolk or Suffolk have a majority here at the moment ;-) At least, not amongst the posters. It'd be great if it were at Red Lodge, as that would be the closest to me that ALUG has got so far. -- MJR I work for this clever Internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Audio HELL
by Ricardo Campos 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

>I would raise a bug report against Nautilus as I beleive that >Nautilus as a program should be doing the necessary checking >to ensure that it doesn't try to play two MP3 files at once. I think the developers- Eazel? have gone under, but I'll check to see if their efforts are being continued. Thanks for the info everyone. Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: Future meetings
by Lucy McWilliam 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Adam Bower wrote: > Is there any news on the next meeting (UEA people??) and possible venues > for future meetings? Are there any people interested in meeting up in Cambridge? I'm sure we could arrange something ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Lucy McWilliam Email: lejm3(a)cam.ac.uk Flychip Tel: +44 (0)1223 765927 Department of Genetics Fax: +44 (0)1223 333992 University of Cambridge Mobile: 07939 476024 CB2 3EH WWW: www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~lejm3

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Audio HELL
by Ricardo Campos 03 Oct '01

03 Oct '01

I discovered some unruly audio aspects of my linux box; 1)In Nautilus, which I think sux btw (I want a file manager not a multimedia extravaganza), I accidentally put my cursor over about 4 or 5 MP3 files. I then had 5 MP3's playing *at the same time* for about 30 seconds. It was so bad I had to unplug my speakers. 2) Noatun crashed in an unbelievably cute way, and then the audio kept on playing. Is there a way of stopping this unruly sound daemon? Obviously I'm used to audio apps that kill the sound they produce when they die, but it seems Linux's renowned stability is backfiring! :) Ricardo, "Surely this monstrous hybrid comes not from a mother's womb but from an Ephialtes, an Incubus, or some other horrendous demon, as though spawned in a putrid and venemous fungus, son of Fauns and Nymphs, more Devil than man." -Athanasius Kircher, Mundus Subtarraneus, Amsterdam, 1665, pp.279-280 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [Alug] Audio HELL
by MJ Ray 03 Oct '01

03 Oct '01

"Ricardo Campos" <corez23(a)hotmail.com> writes: > Is there a way of stopping this unruly sound daemon? killall esd, apt-get remove esd and install alsa (but you really want 0.9.0 and it's still a pain to build just now). For less nasty solution, try man esdctl -- MJR I work for this clever Internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Nag-o-matic - future meetings
by Adam Bower 03 Oct '01

03 Oct '01

Hi people, I warn you now this sounds like a rant as the tone of the message got a little confused when I wrote it, but my intent is to encourage people to get involved, please don't flame me or think I am picking on you :-) Is there any news on the next meeting (UEA people??) and possible venues for future meetings? We are already in October and if we are to have a meeting this month then we really need to find a venue before the end of the week (we also need a date set so I can get motivated to get my a*se in gear and sort out the talk I am supposed to be doing on Debian) and it would be great if we could get November or Decembers meeting date/location arranged now. If you know of a possible venue for an Alug meeting then the requirements are basically enough room for ~30 people to sit and stand and generally mill around, some electrical outlets and some space for people to setup computers. Other nice but not essential things would be a bar and an internet connection. Also experience has shown that people are willing to help out with costs of hiring a hall etc. as long as its not more than a couple of quid each. We could still do with maybe a meeting in Cambridgshire or Essex, as we havn't visited these places yet. Finally if you do know of a venue but are a bit unsure of how to organise a meeting then others will help out, I would book something myself but I am a bit all over the place at the moment. Feel free to give me a shout if you need any specific help though. Hmmm, maybe time for me to sort out getting this kind of thing put in the FAQ. Adam PS if you are a lurker who knows of somewhere good we could go then please de-lurk now :-) -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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(Scripting) languages
by tom potts 03 Oct '01

03 Oct '01

For Java there is (currently) a free 'RAD' called Forte (Community Edition) which seems pretty good but it uses a bit of resource. This can be run on Win32 or *nix etc etc. If you find java slow try looking for a jit compiler for you installation. Another 'tool' I've been playing with is the mysql/php on a web server. Not overly brilliant in the Maths dept but seems to run on most platforms. I'll be publishing an extendable GNU e-shop (before xmas I hope) built on mysql/php but using odbc to make it a bit more system independent. Haven't found any problems with it yet Tom ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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VRML editors/tools for Linux
by Simon Jude 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

Hi, One of the geographical information systems that I use can export data such as digital elevation models to VRML. However, this facility is fairly crude and what I want to do is create a tour around around one of my elevation models using viewpoints and routes so that it can be used in a presentation that I am giving fairly soon. Not having the time to do this manually and learn how VRML works, is there any software for Linux that can do this sort of thing? Any ideas would be appreciated as I don't have a great deal of time!!! Simon School of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia, University Plain, Norwich, NR4 7TJ Web http://www.uea.ac.uk/~e931406/research

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Re: [Alug] (Scripting) languages
by MJ Ray 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: > have you considered python? it's object orietated [...] As ever, except the bits which aren't. ;-) -- MJR I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] (Scripting) languages
by Ricardo Campos 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

>have you considered python? it's object orietated, fairly simple and >"compiles" >into p-code whilst also is fairly portable. I have. Definitely one of the runners for this. Fairly as in can be d/l and used on a Win9x machine? At the moment I'm seriously considering Java, Python and TCl. Java seems most likely at the moment. >gui wise there's tkinter, wxWindows, >gtk, kde, and opengl. oh, and google is built on it. and that's just the search engine I'm using so much today! :) Many thanks for all the advice from all parties. I'll have to do a lot more reviewing of each candidate first. Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [Alug] (Scripting) languages
by MJ Ray 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > I dont know TK/TCL and it is a scripting language but I belive it > would do the job here, anyone with experiance of this frame work? It > is also I belive windows compatable And mac-compatible, last I saw. It is a very very simplistic language, but it is supposed to be fairly easy to use, though. -- MJR I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Exim Upgrade completed!
by Martyn Drake 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

Hi folks, Exim 3.33 is now up and running on the server and has been found to be stable enough to go live :) If you experience any problems with the lists over the next couple of days, please drop me a note and I will try and fix things as quickly as I can. Regards, Martyn PS. The only dislike I have about Exim is that in order for anybody to authenticate through SMTP AUTH with /etc/shadow support, you're going to need to use the pam_exim module available from http://www.e-admin.de/pam_exim/ as this is the only "secure" thing that will work other than to run exim as root.

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(Scripting) languages
by Ricardo Campos 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

I have just had the pleasure of writing a little script in VBS; it took me 30 minutes (including making some coffee) from looking at a webpage that included the syntax to actually completing it- this process would have taken me a day in C. (without having to learn it as well) Problem is, of course, the platform specificity. And of course the M$ link. I know there are various scripting laguages out there, but I really need a simple GUI driven non-script language that I can compile for *nix and win32 (urgh!). The reason for non-scripted is that I would like to use subroutines for common functions. It only needs to handle very simple mathematical calculations. (I'm writing handy calculators for players of a wargame, probably mostly window$ users, but I'm a *nix user, obviously, so it has to have support for us!) Java springs to mind, but it seems so PAINFULLY slow, even to do fairly simple stuff. If it was OO, that would be a bonus too. I suppose I'm just being a bit lazy; I could just compile a C program natively on 'nix AND win32. Potentially, I would like to add these separate elements into one larger program (this is where I would perhaps prefer C). I *WOULDN'T* like to pick up a new language as complex as C *YET*, at least not until I learn to use C properly. Any tips? For example, if you use Java, is there a nice free RAD/IDE for it? Anyone tried Kylix? (I have it on CD) Or maybe you could suggest another approach? Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [Alug] (Scripting) languages
by MJ Ray 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

Well, as you know, I'm a scheme fan and I think that GNU have definitely done The Right Thing in making a scheme their main extension language, although it's not perfect and is woefully under-used at the moment, even by official GNU software. Hopefully it can become as common as VB is on that other platform, as there's scope to do so much more with it. What we really need are more good libraries for guile and more good simple introductions to it. Teach Yourself Scheme in Fixnum Days is pretty good, though. So for the solution to the problem you have *now*, ie building cross-platform simple GUI non-C apps, I'd suggest taking a look at Visual Tcl, which should easily cope with having a few functions added. Sadly, the docs are rather thin on the ground, but it is basically Tcl behind the scenes, which is a fairly simple language. I think Java would be overkill for such a small app, but that's probably an equally good route, and I don't know Kylix well enough to comment. But I don't really understand why you think scripting means that you can't have functions. The distinction between a scripting language and a programming language is somewhat arbitrary these days. -- MJR This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] (Scripting) languages
by flexifoil＠btinternet.com 02 Oct '01

02 Oct '01

[apologies using webmail!] > Java springs to mind, but it seems so PAINFULLY slow, even to do fairly > simple stuff. If it was OO, that would be a bonus too. Java isnt slow, and it gets my vote... > I suppose I'm just > being a bit lazy; I could just compile a C program natively on 'nix AND > win32. If you just want CLI, then thats easy. > Potentially, I would like to add these separate elements into one larger > program (this is where I would perhaps prefer C). I *WOULDN'T* like to pick > up a new language as complex as C *YET*, at least not until I learn to use C > properly. You could learn as you go... > Any tips? For example, if you use Java, is there a nice free RAD/IDE for it? > Anyone tried Kylix? (I have it on CD) Or maybe you could suggest another > approach? Borlands ? Andrew.

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Furby Linux :)
by Ashley T. Howes 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

http://www.trygve.com/furbeowulf.html Dr. Ashley T. Howes PhD www.ashleyhowes.com Programmer "When all the animals of this world are gone, man will die of loneliness"

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GPPP problems.
by Ricardo Campos 27 Sep '01

27 Sep '01

I'm now in a period of trying Gnome instead of KDE (bored so quickly!). Unfortunately, I can't get Gppp to work. It appears to be pointing to the correct device, has the correct phone #, correct IP& DNS settings etc. But it doesn't really get to that stage. I set up an account and it merely says "The ppp daemon died unexpectedly", which to a newbie like myself leaves bugger all clues except maybe that Gppp is somehow incorrectly interfaced with pppd ??? It feels like I've lost all my troubleshooting skills. Is there a log file that I'm missing somewhere, that could give me some clues? (and maybe I could then give more info to those who're helping me) Kppp works, but it's time to give Gnome a go methinks. It seems a little smoother performance-wise. Ricardo, _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Newbie question.... PATHS
by Ricardo Campos 27 Sep '01

27 Sep '01

OK, so I've symlinked Kgcc to gcc, but how does a program know where to look for gcc in the first place? Is it your 'path'? I'm saying this as I'm going to be compiling a Python prgram, but have had no experience in doing so. One of the prereqs is: "make sure Python is in your path". I guess that this is what an NT user would consider an environment variable? Or does it just mean that you have to be in the same dir. ? (seems unlikely) If it is a user env. variable, where is it to be found? ps. if I get my moop/doop running off dhs. you're all welcome to try it out. only 1 at a time, mind, cos the test box will be my home computer- all 46 kbps of bandwidth! whooosh! ;-D Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Server maintenance: 1st October, 2001
by Martyn Drake 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Hi, Just to let everybody know that these mailing lists will be unavailable for a short while during the day of the 1st October. I am upgrading to Exim from Sendmail and will need to verify the configuration for both local accounts and Mailman. Regards, Martyn

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1984: Linux not legal????
by Ricardo Campos 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

OK, my subject's a bit dramatic. But I think there are some serious issues relating to the new 'anti-terrorism' legislation, especially for those using SSH or *PGP. The UK RIP act is a favourite topic of mine, I'll spare you the rant, but you can check it out at: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/ripa/ripact.htm or here (if you don't want to wade thru legal speak): http://www.cyber-rights.org/ (Main gripe: "Guilty until proven innocent" contravenes all agreed civilised standards of justice, and contravenes both the European and Universal Declaration of Human Rights - has anyone EVER forgotten their PGP password?) (oops, I said no rant! ;) Well, now the US is follwing suit with equally absurd legislation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/21830.html and a slightly more alarmist version: http://lwn.net/2001/0913/ God bless ambiguous legislation! ;) Ricardo (PS I know this isn't really technical, but it really isn't social either, and VERY pertinent to Linux) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Virtual window managers
by oms101＠freeuk.com 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

I am using IceWM, back in the past (before a period of KDE instability) I was a KDE fan, but today I feel that ice does all I need from a window manager, and does not use many resources. One think I have wanted to do for some time is start applications in other virtual windows than the virtual window that your window manager starts with in the .xinitrc file. anyhelp would be appresiated. Owen Synge Date: 26-Sep-01 Time: 10:10:11

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Re: [Alug] (k)gcc help?
by MJ Ray 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

"Ricardo Campos" <corez23(a)hotmail.com> writes: > Yup, I have made symlinks from kgcc/kg++ to gcc and g++. What is cc? cc is a generic name for the C compiler, still often seen on Sun kit until it has gcc, the GNU C Compiler, installed. > I'm trying to set up a MUSH (rather than a mud) for a friend, and it's a > nice little project for me. (Not that I have time outside of work at the > mo!) Have you seen moop and doop on sourceforge? They're quite interesting takes on the MOO concept (an OO evolution of MUSHes). -- MJR Thesis watch: 30% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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(k)gcc help?
by Ricardo Campos 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Yup, I have made symlinks from kgcc/kg++ to gcc and g++. What is cc? I *have* compiled some programs now, there is only one I'm having real probs with (Pennmush >ftp.pennmush.org<), but I suspect it's not just my machine, one of the makefiles seems lacking (not that my C programming has yet to get to makefiles, more of the 'Hello World' level!)- at least that's what the compiler said. Perhaps the source ain't right? Is there a resource that gives a bit more help on the kind of errors gcc throws up (like error type [1], which seems non-fatal, or error [2] which seems to designate failure). I can debug my progs as they're dead simple, and *I* wrote them, but for other people's it's still a bit of a mystery. After 30 mins going thru the man pages I can't seem to find an exact resource to provide definitions or 'ball-parks' for these errors. saying that, the man pages are huge for gcc, so I may have missed them. I'm trying to set up a MUSH (rather than a mud) for a friend, and it's a nice little project for me. (Not that I have time outside of work at the mo!) Cheers, Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Data cartridges - free!
by Edenyard 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

I'm sorry if this isn't the right place to post this message, but I don't know where else to go.... I have a quantity of DC600 and DC615 data cartridges that I need to dispose of. I once had plans to install a tape drive in my PC and use them, but it didn't work and, in any case, CD-RW seems to have overtaken us. What's available: 7 DC600, brand new still in selaed wrappers, 8 DC600, used, 14 DC615, used. They're completely FREE to a good home, but the only condition is that they have to be collected from me at Martlesham. If you'd like them or you know anyone else who would, please contact me at GDP(a)edenyard.co.uk - many thanks! Gerald.

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Contemplating Exim
by Martyn Drake 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

Hi folks, I'm contemplating using Exim as a replacement for Deadmail, and was wondering if there are any pros and cons associated with migrating everything on the existing server (including these lists) to Exim? I've had a bit of a play with it this afternoon and it's straightforward for me, but I don't want to suddenly find that I've run across a compatibility issue that may be lurking somewhere. Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Unresolved symbols
by MJ Ray 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

Paul <paul.corner(a)tesco.net> writes: > depmod -v appears to list all the symbols of each module visited. > Unfortunately, it still doesn't tel me which ones are unresolved - Or maybe > it does, and I don't know how to decipher the info. Aha! It's depmod -e, sorry. man depmod gives the right answers, as always. > I currently have about five different kernels on this machine, 2.2.18-rtx > through to 2.4.9-bifino - That really screws up any C source that depends on > specific kernel version info to build correctly <g> Well, surely as long as you point them to the right include directories it would make it possible, wouldn't it? It depends if you need them to run when they require particular information. -- MJR Thesis watch: 30% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Strong case for text web browsers...
by tom potts 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

Sorry to disabuse you: the presence of a tag mentioning creation by FrontPage in web page merely means that at some time someone has looked at the site with FrontPage - its a true M$ product and would claim responsibility for anything. I have inadvertently used it to move a couple of files in a web site (it re-points urls to the pages you move) only to discover that the 16000 pages in the site were all created by frontpage (and all about 5 times the size as well!) Praise them for aiming at Lynx - all we need to do know is teach people how to use HTML properly. Tom ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble - A Step Forward
by MJ Ray 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

"Edenyard" <mail(a)edenyard.co.uk> writes: > So it seems as though there's an issue with kernel 2.2 and BOTH of my > IDE CD drives, whereas kernel 2.4 and 2.0 (Slack 3.5) apparently have > no trouble with those drives. Could this be the case? Indeed it could and from what you've said, it even seems quite likely. If you still want debian, I guess you'll need to get some woody disks. -- MJR Thesis watch: 30% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Unresolved symbols
by MJ Ray 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

Paul <paul.corner(a)tesco.net> writes: > Question though - Is there an easy way of finding out what symbols are > causing the error messages reported by depmod ? I think there's a -v option to depmod which gets you the full list of symbols. However, the usual cause of such problems is because you installed two kernels with the same modules directory simultaneously. For this reason, when building my own kernel packages, I tend to add a suffix (EXTRAVERSION I think the Makefile directive is) to the version. Debian don't do that, so I avoid conflicting. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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MDK 8.0 probs
by Ricardo Campos 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

Here's a little warning for anyone wishing to try Mandrake 8.0:- EVERY source I've compiled has failed. Sometimes rpms work, sometimes they don't (even though they are MDK rpm's). I thought I was just being inept(fairly likey really), but why EVERY source? I looked over various BBS's and realised that I was not the only one... a LOT of people were having this problem. Seems that MDK, in an effort to be cutting edge, has sacrificed reliability and used a less stable version of gcc. grrr. Ref for solution: http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?topic=861&forum=5 Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble - A Step Forward
by Edenyard 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:16:02 +0100 (BST), Adam Bower wrote: >> hdc: WEARNES RUBY CD-ROM, ATAPI CDROM drive > (....) > Is that there appears to be problems with Wearnes CD-Rom drives in Gateway > computers and they replaced the drives with Toshiba units as they did not > ship Wearnes due to multiple replacement issues. > Is your machine one made by Gateway by any chance? If not it may be that > the Wearnes drive is not very good or something related. > No - it has a label on the front saying 'Bull' - I was beginning to think that I couldn't agree more.... However, there's progress: I couldn't understand why neither the 2X Wearnes or the 12X Liteon would work with Debian, although they'd both previously installed Redhat 7 without any difficulty. Suddenly (I'm very slow at these things!) it came to me that Redhat uses kernel 2.4, but the troublesome Debian (and Slack with the 12X drive) both use kernel 2.2. I remembered having seen something on the Slackware 8 disks that suggested that the 2.4.5 kernel could be installed if needed. In sheer desperation, I tried making a 2.4.5 bare.i boot disk this morning. Amazingly, Slack 8 installed on the 12X CD drive without a murmur. I did it twice, just to make sure. So it seems as though there's an issue with kernel 2.2 and BOTH of my IDE CD drives, whereas kernel 2.4 and 2.0 (Slack 3.5) apparently have no trouble with those drives. Could this be the case? Anyway - one lives and learns. I wonder what my next hurdle will be.... Gerald.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server uk.openprojects.net" or "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Unresolved symbols
by Paul 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

Hi Folks Just spent the last few days bludgeoning a kernel source in to submission. Finally got it working on a RH6.x system (the RH7.2 will be next). Just one small elephant in the ointment though - When I run depmod, I get a report of unresolved symbols in a handfull of modules, yet when installing them, not an error or warning in sight. The stress tests all run without hanging the system, so I assume there is no major problem with the modules. Question though - Is there an easy way of finding out what symbols are causing the error messages reported by depmod ? Once the errant symbols have been identified, I would hope to be able to fix them without too much trouble. Regards, Paul.

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how to resume dowloads?
by John Woodard 23 Sep '01

23 Sep '01

When I use that `other' os I have a small utility (Gozilla!) that resumes http downloads if I loose my connection. Is there some way of doing the same in Linux? I know that ftp clients do the same but if I download over http I'd quite like the same facility. Cheers, BJ

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Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:02:24 +0100, Steve Fosdick wrote: > Still I guess what we really need to know is what chipset the > IDE interface appears to be from a software point of view, so > we are looking for lines from the output of dmesg like the Below is the output of my dmesg. It doesn't actually report the chipset number, merely 'VP_IDE'. I understand the chipset to be a VIA 580 VPX. Is that a troublesome one? Gerald. ====== dmesg output: ================================================ Linux version 2.2.19 (root@bigkitty) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release)) #22 Wed Jun 20 18:12:16 PDT 2001 (then, a few lines later) Serial driver version 4.27 with HUB-6 MANY_PORTS MULTIPORT SHARE_IRQ enabled ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16550A pty: 512 Unix98 ptys configured Real Time Clock Driver v1.09 RAM disk driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size loop: registered device at major 7 VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39 VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later ide0: BM-DMA at 0x6000-0x6007, BIOS settings: hda:pio, hdb:pio ide1: BM-DMA at 0x6008-0x600f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio hda: ST33240A, ATA DISK drive hdc: WEARNES RUBY CD-ROM, ATAPI CDROM drive ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15 hda: ST33240A, 3077MB w/0kB Cache, CHS=781/128/63 hdc: ATAPI 2X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.11 Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M FDC 0 is a National Semiconductor PC87306 md driver 0.36.6 MAX_MD_DEV=4, MAX_REAL=8 (etc.) =====================================================================

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Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

On 22 Sep 2001 09:09:43 +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > Might be something about the controller or drive that it doesn't like. > I see you have it on hdc (secondary master, usually). Have you tried > moving it to the same controller as the hard disk (hdb, primary > slave)? If it works then, it's probably that controller it doesn't > I've just tried that suggestion. I set the CD to slave and put it on the HD's ribbon cable. Unfortunately, it's not made any difference. I went into the BIOS setup and disabled the now unused secondary IDE controller, just in case that was responsible, but that had no effect either. Hmmm... Gerald.

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Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 12:55:38 +0100 (BST), Adam Bower wrote: > What kind of io chipset does your motherboard have? as there are a couple > that have bugs under linux. That may be something to look at. > On boot-up, the BIOS reports the string: 02/11/99-82C580VP-2A5LA008C-00 along the bottom of the screen. Also, a hardware diagnosis programme running under DOS on that PC reports: VIA 580 VPXchipset Revision Level.........: 16 Sustained 3T Write.....: Yes CPU Pipeline active....: No DRAM Timing Control....: (x) normal, ( ) fast, ( ) turbo System BIOS cacheable..: No Video BIOS cacheable..: No L2-Cache status........: enabled L2-Cache SRAM Type.....: Pipeline Burst SRAM L2-Cache SRAM Type.....: 256 KB L2 Tag Configuration...: 8+0 L2-Cache WriteBack Mode: No Memory Hole............: none SDRAM Burst Write......: No SDRAM Interleave.......: No CPU/PCI Write Buffer...: Yes PCI/DRAM Post Writing..: Yes PCI/DRAM Prefetch......: Yes PCI Dynamic Bursting...: No PCI Burst..............: No PCI Master 0WS Write...: No Quick Frame Generation.: No Does that answer your question, or should I look somewhere else? Is there a list of chipsets that don't work properly under Linux? Gerald.

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Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Dear List, Last week, I sent a plea to the list asking for help with installing Slackware and Debian. As a result of that, John Seago kindly delivered his CD sets to me and now I've got Slackware 8 installed and working. It turns out that I had two problems: (1) the Crazy Penguin CDs were no good, and (2) my 12X CD drive kept locking up when installing .TGZ files to HD - if I copied the files to the DOS partition first and installed from there, it worked. My CD drive problem appeared to be solved by getting hold of an old IDE 2X Wearnes drive - that installed Slackware from the CDs, slowly, but without any further problems. Encouraged, I tried installing Debian 2.2r3 from John's CDs. Firstly, it claimed that it couldn't find /cdrom/ (having already installed the 'base system' from CD...) but I seemed to overcome that by installing a different 'flavor' of system - I'd tried idepci at first, but ended up with the 'vanilla' one (is that the right term??). Having installed the abse system, I then got as far as choosing the packages to install. Unfortunately, part way through the package installation, I got these messages: hdc: irq timeout: status=0xd0 {Busy} hdc: ATAPI reset complete hdc: status error: status=0x58 {DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest} hdc: drive not ready for command (etc.) A new line, similar to those above, would appear every few seconds. The CD LED was permanently on and I couldn't open the drawer. Very similar to the problems I was having with the 12X drive last week. So I'm stumped (again) and my question (eventually!) is: where do I go from here? Why does the CD drive get locked up like this? (And why didn't it happen whilst installing Slackware 8?) Sorry if I seem very stupid asking these questions, but I'm desperate for an answer. (Details: P166-MMX with 64Mb RAM, Cirrus 5446 video onboard, 3Gb HD on hda and IDE CD drive on hdc) Any clues will be very gratefully received! All the best, Gerald.

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Re: [Alug] Smugness, Nimda, Linux and Windows
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: > Well, with a c program, the first exploitable bug you are likely to find > is a buffer overflow. > With perl, you move into the realm of shopping carts, webmail and so on. > Quite often authentication mechanisms are insufficient, poorly thought > out. Also there's the old open(HANDLE, $userstring); thing (where > $userstring is set to "/bin/rm -rf / |") Ah, sorry, I interpreted: "once you take out buffer overflows you end up with the inability of programmers to create a decent authentication system. (Think hotmail, banks, etc)" as meaning that without buffer overflows, you cannot create a decent authentication system, which goes against everything I've ever seen, of course. If we just mean insecure execution with user-tainted data, then I know that bug (and I'm just trying to eradicate it from yet another place). -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: Freeserve being a big bag of poo?)
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

ahayes(a)ntlworld.com writes: > Steve Fosdick wrote: > > So, back to MJR's email in which he says these are windows > > problems. I beg to differ. I think these are M$ problems > > and if M$ dained to write software for Linux it would be > > fraught with all the same issues. OK, maybe we should say these are Microsoft problems. Trouble is, "Microsoft Virus" sounds so much like one of their products, doesn't it? Maybe it is and they are keeping the anti-virus makers in business ;-) > I also think they are programmer problems. Arguments are made saying > it's the language the programmer uses. For example: "c has buffer > overflows, use perl/whatever!", but once you take out buffer overflows > you end up with the inability of programmers to create a decent > authentication system. (Think hotmail, banks, etc) Yes, ultimately the programmer is responsible, but can you name any other company which so fiercely defends the rights of their programmers to create such cock-ups, are reluctant to fix them once found and prevent others from fixing them? I'm intrigued though: why is the ability to create buffer overflows linked to being able to create authentication systems? Maybe I've just not thought about it enough. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Ignoring my own advice because I think the communication point is important for all linux advocates. Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > Imaging my surprise when I heard that there was another iis worm doing the > rounds! I didn't actually pay any attention to the reports of "another iis > worm, that is going to destroy the internet" as there is a new one every > week. [...] It's not an IIS worm for two reasons: 1/ it uses javascript page modifications on broken IIS boxes and email via Outlook to trick OE and IE to infecting machines who receive data from the infected box; 2/ most Windows users don't know what IIS is anyway, so calling it an "IIS worm" doesn't get the point across. It's a Microsoft Windows Virus. Let's make the mud start sticking. > This one after a bit of reading looks as though it is rather nasty > and explains quite alot, I have heard of one person reporting that his > apache server has been probed nearly 10,000,000 times in less than a day. My estimate from logs at UEA is that between 10 and 20% of web traffic on the UEA network is this virus, although mostly from outside now that iTCS have slapped the compromised machines on campus. I expect more as students in networked rooms plug in, though. It really is a active bugger, this one! > Well I think we have a strong case to prove that Windows is criminally > broken, I wonder if people with rooted iis boxen will finally see the > light when they get the bandwidth bills at the end of the month? You have to remember that the bandwidth bills are also hitting innocents, both because of scans of random IPs, but also because the ISPs will want to pass their costs on. People using Microsoft products are now costing us all money, even if we bought our computers without Windows. This has to stop. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Edenyard" <mail(a)edenyard.co.uk> writes: > with the 'vanilla' one (is that the right term??). Having installed the Yes. > So I'm stumped (again) and my question (eventually!) is: where do I > go from here? Why does the CD drive get locked up like this? (And why > didn't it happen whilst installing Slackware 8?) Might be something about the controller or drive that it doesn't like. I see you have it on hdc (secondary master, usually). Have you tried moving it to the same controller as the hard disk (hdb, primary slave)? If it works then, it's probably that controller it doesn't like. Whether you want to try that depends how comfortable you are with rewiring and moving jumpers. It would give a good clue as to what's wrong, though. Of course, if the two controllers are identical and it works, that's very very strange. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Rackspace Affliate = Dosh for Alug?
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Martyn Drake" <martyn(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > The income will be miniscule, but anything like this that can go towards the > cost of running the server is welcome, and if things work out better than > expected, then funds can then be made available to Alug. Should we derestrict it totally and say that all-comers can advertise on the site in exchange for donations to group funds? Doesn't that mean we should appoint two treasurers to watch over such things on behalf of the LUG? -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Earl Brannigan" <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> writes: > Sorry, I'm a developer. When I spend 2 days writing 3 lines of code because > I can't get off the phone from these Jerks, then it really gets me. Now I > have to work late or early or Saturday or something to get back on target > with my real work ! Maybe this is a little naive to say this, but if we're developing for a customer, you can't actually reach us directly by phone. Hopefully prospective customers appreciate that when they pay us money, we work on their stuff and don't get distracted by the sort of long drawn-out conversations a few people like to have about issues that don't really concern us (eg this one). Secretaries are wonderful things (when they get the messages right). ;-) You can always reach us by email, though, and we try to answer all calls the same day. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!
by Earl Brannigan 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

Hi List, >Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote : > Imaging my surprise when I heard that there was another iis worm doing the > rounds! I didn't actually pay any attention to the reports of "another iis > worm, that is going to destroy the internet" as there is a new one every > week. This one after a bit of reading looks as though it is rather nasty > and explains quite alot, I have heard of one person reporting that his > apache server has been probed nearly 10,000,000 times in less than a day. This is getting tiresome, today I had to search very hard to find legitimate accesses in apache's access log. Meanwhile, customers are phoning LR&C saying 'my virus software has just reported that I have some trojan file ... what do I do" I can't say "take windows and IIS off your box !!" (of course non of em knew they had IIS on the box, because they bought SBS off some twat of a reseller who doesn't know a decent server from a pair of pants!) So I tell them to go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com and follow the instructions for installing every bloody patch there is. Then to open up outlook, go to tasks, add one to visit microsoft again tomorrow to do exactly the same, set a reminder and save it. Then I remind them to set it for the day after when they have done it. They say "that's ridiculous - I can't spend ages every day downloading stuff like this" I say - "2 things, firstly I can't spend ages every day telling every one of our customers how to patch their machines (we sell them software - they phone up about everything else expecting help), secondly, spend a couple of minutes every day or spend a month trying to get your system back to life when you get wasted by the next big one. Your Call." So today we find out that a major (BIG) software house (NASDAQ quoted) have just been hit by something, they have no virus protection, HAVEN'T DONE A BCKUP IN 2 YEARS, and guess what... lost loads!. Sorry but I'm not sorry - even remotely. Its simple.... sooooooooo simple I'm not even going to tell you how bloody simple. > > > Anyone for a "Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!" diatribe? > > ;-) Sure - Last night my box was scanned 20 times in a 2 hour session on the web. Surfing was painfully slow. How about, Windows users, You're Too Blasted Stupid to use computers! Here - have an abacus! Sorry, I'm a developer. When I spend 2 days writing 3 lines of code because I can't get off the phone from these Jerks, then it really gets me. Now I have to work late or early or Saturday or something to get back on target with my real work ! Not Happy Best Regs Earl

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What is ctags?
by oms101＠freeuk.com 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

ctags is a utility for speeding up your coding in a variety of languages initi ally for the vi editor (I think only for c initially hence the name). What it does is allow you to have your editor jump to the correct line of your code that defines a function. An example say in nedit you highlifght some code eg "fopen" and press "ALT d" nedit will open the correct header file at the line which defines the function. ctags only works for files included in ctags list of files to scan fortunatly as I discovered a few days ago makedepend lists the files included, and so provides usefull output for ctags input. Regards Owen PS I included some stuff from ctags web site. <quote ref="http://ctags.sourceforge.net/whatis.html"> What is ctags? Ctags generates an index (or tag) file of C language objects found in C source and header files that allows these items to be quickly and easily located by a text editor or other utility. A tag signifies a C language object for which an index entry is available (or, alternatively, the index entry created for that object). Alternatively, ctags can generate a cross reference file which lists, in human-readable form, information about the various objects found in a set of C language files. Tag index files are supported by the vi editor and its derivatives (such as vim, elvis, stevie, xvi) through the use of the ":ta" command, and by the emacs editor through the use of the "Meta-." command, both of which locate the object associated with a name. There are other a number of other editors which support tag files. </quote> <quote ref="http://ctags.sourceforge.net/tools.html"> Editors which support CTAGS generated tag files Vi-style editors Vim, the official editor of Exuberant Ctags Vile Lemmy, a vi clone [Windows 95/NT]. Other vi clones Other editors CRiSP [Unix, Windows 95/NT] Emacs FTE (Folding Text Editor) [Unix, Windows 95/NT, MSDOS, OS/2] JED [Unix, VMS, MSDOS, OS/2, BeOS, QNX, Win 9X/NT] NEdit (Nirvana Edit), a GUI editor [Unix with Motif] TSE (The SemWare Editor) [Windows 95/NT] X2 [Unix, Windows 95] Zeus for Windows Tools using CTAGS Code Crusader CShow (greps C functions out of source code) FLTags [Unix] hypersrc [Unix] IDEntify [Unix] Workspace Whiz! [Win32] VIDE (V Integrated Development Environment [Unix and Windows 9x/NT] </quote> I hope you find this interesting Owen On 21-Sep-01 Ashley T. Howes Ph.D. wrote: > on 19/9/01 7:43 pm, oms101(a)freeuk.com at oms101(a)freeuk.com wrote: > >> I was about to write a program today to go through my source code and find >> all >> the files included. I did a search on the internet and only found a windows >> program, the reason being that the linux program was something so standard I >> had missed it. Its called makedepend and ran as such >> >> makedepend main.cpp -f- >> >> produces output as such >> >> main.c.o: /usr/include/_G_config.h /usr/include/alloca.h >> /usr/include/assert.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/confname.h /usr/include/bits/endian.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/environments.h /usr/include/bits/huge_val.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h /usr/include/bits/mathcalls.h >> >> but produces a few more lines. >> >> I then process the output into ctags and can find the definition of any bit >> of >> code I want. > > What's a ctag? > > > Ashley > > > > Date: 21-Sep-01 Time: 13:58:17

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Rackspace Affliate = Dosh for Alug?
by Martyn Drake 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

Hi, Would anybody object to having a small Rackspace logo and link placed on the main Alug web site? Main reason for it, is that if anybody clicks through and signs up, Alug will receive 50% of the first month's hosting fee of whoever signs up. This will help pay towards the upkeep of the server for that month, and anything extra can be used for the group itself for whatever it needs. Thoughts? Opinions? BK Flamer? Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > Anyway, I just signed up with freeserve not much more than a week ago and > their data transfer for webpages seems abysmal? [...] There are four access numbers for freeserve, not all of which work in all parts of the country. They actually connect over totally different networks from the telco level up (and there's one which leaves BT at the local exchange), so performance varies between them. A quick look on groups.google or the freeserve.help.anytime group should get the numbers for you, as I don't have them to hand. There are two sets of web proxy caches, one transparent and one normal. If one is screwing up, sometimes the other works fine. Try toggling your proxy settings. It sounds like the trans ones are broken from what you say. Replies to social(a)lists.alug, please, as this isn't terribly Linuxish. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Suitable threads on main [was: Freeserve being a big
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > > Announce - Announcements for all things Alug (meetings, etc.) > Makes sence to me we currently use main for this and if we are all > dividing up the groups we need one central point to look at and > subscribe to with very low posting numbers. No, we don't use main for this. There's announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk, but no-one else ever seems to want to post to it (HintHint). I also try to pick the best bits of the main list for it, too. > > Main - Meetings discussion, Linux (installing/config) > > help/discussion, etc > Is not this Main's job as well as install issues and configuration Yep, I think help should stay on main. I think we probably should re-open the old discussion about what people want to see on here. Well, anyone else got opinions on it? Anyone able to write a really great summary of what we want to see on main? I'll add it to the welcome message and web site if you do. > > Social - BBQs a plenty, vaguley Linux related meets and greets, etc. > OK some people want to filter out sillyness. Moo. Actually, it's more to give an outlet for this group of people on things that are really off-topic on the main list, just to avoid having some of the more flammable members calling people "ignorant pigs" (whoops there go the content filters again). More people should subscribe to it (HintHint). > > Developers - discussion for any developers out there (coding, IDEs, etc) > Is not this as central to linux as playing with the config and more of a main > list thing, if this is going to happen maybe a sysadmin list should exist. Maybe hackers(a)lists.alug might be a better name? I think that there are some people who just want to *use* Linux for interesting tasks, rather than hacking around all day. Or does everyone like to hear about the latest tech as well as seeing questions answered and meetings organised? > I know not all of us have toll free internet but at least all our > mails are plain text so the band width is not that bad. [...] I think it's more a human problem than a practical one. Some people just can't read 1000 mails/week, which is what we'd surely do if we let this list go wild. PS - Owen, your mail client appears to truncate subject lines :-/ -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Strong case for text web browsers...
by Ricardo Campos 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

I know this is a little off-topic, but you REALLY need to see http://www.goldchip-uk.com it is the strongest argument for a console-based text webpage viewer I have seen - I promise you, you will laugh. (well, you might cry. Remeber what webpages looked like 5 or 6 years ago?). I just discovered it @ work, so I haven't looked at it in Lynx yet... I couldn't resist the temptation to send the webmaster a little note: ------------------------------ <flame> Your website is quite surely the worst one I have ever seen. And I've seen some *REALLY* bad ones. <snip> ....but as you are a business you should really consider paying a little more attention to the design. After all, it is an advert for your company. This particular advert says "my company is crap". <snip> </flame> ------------------------------ I'm hungover and feeling unkind! >;-P Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [Alug] PHP and Java problem
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > just an quick response... why are you trying to do this ?? Java is nice, > PHP is nice, but trying to combine the two is like sticking wheels on a > jelly ;) > > If what you are doing is that serious you should be using perl (imho) Bwhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahah! There are reasons for trying to glue all kinds of things together, but often trying to do this internally to the processes is a bad idea and some sort of message-passing over sockets between servers is a lot easier to do properly. Glue is good... I mean, look at how perl's OO is stuck on as an afterthought. Blessing references? What's all that about, then? -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Lists
by John Seago 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Five lists? Surely what we have is quite sufficient? Syd Hancock says he is not subscribed to `Social', unless you can read them all how do you know that you haven't missed something? Whilst the more esoteric discussions go completely over my head I have a suspicion that I may actually be learning something, even if I don't know what it is. I already have the daily digests in order to ensure that I don't miss anything, five lists mean I've got to subscribe to, and read five lists. If we had more than we do at present there would need to be a link on each to point to matters we might need to read on the others. I am of the opinion that things are fine as they are at the moment, after all it wasn't so long ago that the daily list was down to one or two articles, and the main discussion was on the quality of written English, spelling and grammar. John Seago

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PHP and Java problem
by Martyn Drake 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Well, we don't have the developer list as yet, but here's something to think about as my brain has melted and has been replaced by a robotic one that's just used to ask for more tea. Does anybody here use PHP compiled with Java support (specifically, Kaffe). I'm having a right old time trying to convince Java that it needs to look in a directory. This is a dump of the php.ini file (the java.class.path has to be split over several lines):- [java] java.library.path=/usr/local/lib/kaffe:/usr/local/lib/php/extensions java.library=/usr/local/lib/libkaffevm.so java.class.path=/usr/local/share/kaffe/Klasses.jar:/home/safedoor/classes/ SMSigner.class:/usr/local/lib/php/extensions/php_java.jar: /home/safedoor/classes/jsafe.jar extension_dir=/usr/local/lib/php/extensions/no-debug-non-zts-20001222 extension=libphp_java.so Where Java is failing is on the following message. The bit at line 53 reads as $smsigner = new Java("SMSigner");. Fatal error: java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError: [exception was java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: file not found] in /home/safedoor/safedoor.php on line 53 SMSigner is stored within /home/safedoor/classes as explicity declared within java.class.path. Any ideas? Many thanks, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: > I think several large isps have been suffering from the side effects of the > various http infecting worms going around at the moment. There's one Windows worm being particularly active (see CERT) and it has the property that it'll scan its own /24 block 50% of the time, its own /16 25% and random 25%, or something like that. Combine this with the fact that most Windows users are too clueless to even know they've been hit, and significant data loss is required to completely remove this worm (it would seem it's a reinstall job), then you have a nasty problem. At least one ISP is now doing HTTP probes on connection and disconnecting people running unpatched IIS servers. That's only going to spread. Of course, the trans proxies are going to be caned now. That explains it. Anyone for a "Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!" diatribe? ;-) -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Suitable threads on main [was: Freeserve being a big bag of poo?]
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

"Martyn Drake" <martyn(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > Misc - anything else that doesn't fit into the above No, let's use social instead of a misc. Although setting up a developers (programmers?) list would be a good move, it seems, I think having a bit-bucket will mean that no-one subscribes to it. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by Adam Bower 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Hi all, I wouldn't normally ask this on the Alug list but I am not subscribed to better places to ask this. Anyway, I just signed up with freeserve not much more than a week ago and their data transfer for webpages seems abysmal? I just telneted to a server that I know is fast and issued a GET / HTTP/1.0 and I could interpret the html faster than it came done the pipe! I know my bandwidth is ok, as ssh works fine to my shell account and ping flooding freeserves main webserver makes the blinken lights stay on constantly while looking at the modem. Anyway my basic question is has anyone else noticed that freeserves Netapps are completley ****** and not wanting to give webpages even if you ask them nicely? or is it something more localised on the Freeserve network? Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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Re: [Alug] Strong case for text web browsers...
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Try this one then: http://www.pace-racing.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo? Yup, tied up with chicken's legs.
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Adam Bower wrote: >Anyway my basic question is has anyone else noticed that freeserves >Netapps are completley ****** and not wanting to give webpages even if you >ask them nicely? or is it something more localised on the Freeserve >network? Adam - I use freeserve and, although they are reliable enough for mail, viewing web pages takes about ten times as long at home as it does at work, and some things i can't even access, e.g. linuxnewbie site. I just don't use the net at all at home as a result. I assusmed the problem was at my end up till now, actually. Jen

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Unix is reusable code (makedepend)
by oms101＠freeuk.com 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

I was about to write a program today to go through my source code and find all the files included. I did a search on the internet and only found a windows program, the reason being that the linux program was something so standard I had missed it. Its called makedepend and ran as such makedepend main.cpp -f- produces output as such main.c.o: /usr/include/_G_config.h /usr/include/alloca.h /usr/include/assert.h main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/confname.h /usr/include/bits/endian.h main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/environments.h /usr/include/bits/huge_val.h main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h /usr/include/bits/mathcalls.h but produces a few more lines. I then process the output into ctags and can find the definition of any bit of code I want. I think I shall write a little bash script and put the features into my ode program. Whats rearly nice is today I found a good example of code reuse the unix way and saved myself work. Regards Owen Date: 19-Sep-01 Time: 18:38:51

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RE: I know a good IDE or 3 for linux.
by Earl Brannigan 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

Hi Guys, > > I think anjuta has great promise, and shall be keeping an eye on it > Absolutely, I really like Anjuta ... it does the biz for me, although it seems to get its knickers in a twist with debugging sometimes, breakpoints display can be a bit hit-and-miss, but I imagine this is more to do with gdb and my excessive use of templates and typedefs and inline classes. I use it at home all of the time, then save out the project to floppy, bring it to work and import the files (manually) into whatever IDE I'm using. > > kdevelop I think is great in terms of functionality but dont feel > that the text > editor is very good Haven't tried this one. > > I am currently nearing the stage of release of a program > initially called ode > (owens development environment) this currently consists of a make > button which > displays your make output and start a nedit editor with the error line > highlighted when you click on the error line. I plan to make the GUI > configurable and a few more features. please mail me if you use > nedit and I > shall mail you the as is code/binarry. I don't use nedit but you can still send me the source/binary and I'll install nedit as well... > kylix is a superb ide although rearly requires a 700Mhz + CPU this agreed, but I don't really want to learn another language. I did begin delphi with release 5 but found it a little awkward. I do use C++ builder however, every day. If borland port this to linux it'll be Christmas for me. I did play with rhide (the Turbo C lookalike) for a while, which worked well but It had to come pre-compiled with a statically linked obscure library or something. So it was quite big but still phun, took me back a few years.

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Re: Re : [Alug] Re problems with Bt
by MJ Ray 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

Syd Hancock <syd2(a)toufol.com> writes: > Only fly in the ointment is that I seem to remember needing to use IE to set > up the account. But that's not such a big deal really. Oh yes and there are > two-hour cut offs but that does not trouble me too much either. You don't *need* IE, as you can do it with a little bit of JavaScript hacking (typing the form submit action into the location bar when you get to that badly-designed form). Yes, it sucks, but it can be done. As for cutoffs, pppd's persist option works. (Yay - bricktext again!) -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Alug server
by MJ Ray 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

"Martyn Drake" <martyn(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > BTW, has anybody got anything good or bad to say about OpenBSD? One > potential job could have me administrating such a box. Good: ongoing security audit, IIRC. Bad: Theo has quite an ego, it seems. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re : [Alug] Re problems with Bt
by Mat B 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

I have never been able to connect to BT Internet through Linux. Works fine under Windows though, so I end up doing a majority of my surfing under that :( Otherwise I use my Barrysworld dialup account (which is charged at Lo-call rates). If anyone can give me any advice as to how to set up my ISDN connection to work with BT Internet then I would be *very* grateful. BT's support for Linux is sadly lacking... I have tried everythingTM and all I can get is a connection that allows me to go nowhere but makes the KISDN rate monitor go up to full all the time. Regards, Mat B

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Alug server
by Martyn Drake 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

Hi folks, I've resolved the spat from Rackspace and even though unemployed at the end of the month, I'm confident something will turn up pretty soon and thus funds for running the server will be all sorted out. There will still be the danger of having to close the server if something doesn't turn up by the end of November, but at least the server will be kept going until then. Again, my apologies for all the panic and many, many thanks for all of you that have volunteered to take over hosting duties for the site. BTW, has anybody got anything good or bad to say about OpenBSD? One potential job could have me administrating such a box. Regards, Martyn

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