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Weekly IRC meeting reminder
by Adam Bower 28 May '01

28 May '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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CASE Tools
by David Freeman 27 May '01

27 May '01

Can anyone recommend any CASE[1] tools for use on linux? Thanks D PS Needless to say it needs to be free(in beer and speach) [1]Computer Aided Software Engineering __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] lxml
by MJ Ray 26 May '01

26 May '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > My filter lxml is almost finished, and I was wondering if anyone new of a > reason not to use source forge for this application. If it's Free, you might be able to use one of the other sourceforge-code-based sites like savannah.gnu.org which are less overloaded, although sf is supposed to have good caching etc. -- MJR

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lxml
by oms101＠freeuk.com 26 May '01

26 May '01

My filter lxml is almost finished, and I was wondering if anyone new of a reason not to use source forge for this application. Owen PS I shall put a copyu on my web site. Date: 26-May-01 Time: 01:22:45

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Re: [Alug] File systems and Kernel recompile
by MJ Ray 26 May '01

26 May '01

Toby Jaffey <toby(a)earth.li> writes: > XFS seems a bit too new to trust, I'm not sure about ext3. ext3 is working well here using a converted ext2 disk, but I'd advise to get the speed benefits of reiserfs if you are starting from a blank disk. While we're on matters kernel, has anyone got real suspend working on a desktop machine, either swsusp or APM? How??? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] RedHat 7.1 module compile problems
by Richard George 25 May '01

25 May '01

joe_frost(a)omnis-software.com wrote: > Has anyone had trouble with "make modules" on RedHat 7.1? > > There seems to be some errors in module.h Not using RH, but Mandrake 8.0 is completely up the spout when it comes to compiling modules (kernel 2.3...mdksomething). Knowing the supposed similarity of these two distros I have to wonder if there's a link. Anyone managed to recompile the kernel under 'drake 8? (PS: I hope this is the address I'm subbed from, apologies to the moderator if not). Richard

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File systems and Kernel recompile
by David Freeman 25 May '01

25 May '01

I eventually bit the bullet and recompiled my kernel to version 2.4.4, and guess what, IT WORKED, well I was surprised Having done this I have some questions. 0)I missed a module out when I compiled the kernel, how do I compile just that module? 1)Would people recommend a 2.2 or 2.4 kernel for mission critical systems which need high availability? 2)What would people recommend in the way of journelling file systems? I think that was all. Thanks to all who advised me on my earlier kernel thread. Thanks D PS Mark: are all the admin messages archived in some shape or form? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Large text in Mandrake 7.2!?
by MJ Ray 24 May '01

24 May '01

terryfilby <terryfilby(a)netscapeonline.co.uk> writes: > [...] I wonder if it's just coincidence but 7.0 had Lilo only, whereas > 7.2 has Grub and Lilo, Grub has worked for me every time, could this be > the reason? Almost certainly. I knew Grub had to have some benefit other than just being run once and left alone! > One query about 7.2, sometimes the menu, root dialog etc > comes up with the text about half-an-inch high! Why does this happen and > how can it be solved? Programs still work as usual correct size, but, of > course, having text that large is awkward! Is this in X or on the text console? In X, it's probably due to select different font packages. In console, it's selecting a different font. -- MJR

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RedHat 7.1 module compile problems
by Joe Frost 24 May '01

24 May '01

Has anyone had trouble with "make modules" on RedHat 7.1? There seems to be some errors in module.h Joe

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Large text in Mandrake 7.2!?
by terryfilby 24 May '01

24 May '01

Since Linuxday when Mandrake 7.2 was kindly installed for me, I have re-installed it more than 20 times trying to get the ideal (for me) combination. It was great to at last be able to install a distro myself after all the one's I had tried in the past unsuccessfully! Included in these was Mandrake 7.0, which I tried again to see if I could install this, but the same result, installed ok, but couldn't boot back into Linux. I wonder if it's just coincidence but 7.0 had Lilo only, whereas 7.2 has Grub and Lilo, Grub has worked for me every time, could this be the reason? One query about 7.2, sometimes the menu, root dialog etc comes up with the text about half-an-inch high! Why does this happen and how can it be solved? Programs still work as usual correct size, but, of course, having text that large is awkward! Thanks Terry

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Walnuts
by David Freeman 24 May '01

24 May '01

I am thinking that I might upgrade my kernel to 2.4 from 2.2.18. Is this a good idea? are there any major problems I should watch out for? When I do make menuconfig what options can be removed because they aren't going to be used on my athlon, other than th obvious? I also want to have all periferals configured to be configured as modules, is this easy enough? Also how much has it changed since 2.2* ? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Walnuts
by MJ Ray 23 May '01

23 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > I am thinking that I might upgrade my kernel to 2.4 from 2.2.18. Is > this a good idea? are there any major problems I should watch out for? You should grab Message-ID <slrn90o436.pkl.mjg59(a)cavan.jesus.cam.ac.uk> from uk.comp.os.linux, probably on http://groups.google.com/ or I can email it you. I don't think I've heard nasties about 2.4.4 yet, but earlier ones have serious gotchas. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Next meet?
by MJ Ray 23 May '01

23 May '01

"Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> writes: > When's the next meet and where? It's looking like June 10th, UEA again. Still not confirmed, sadly. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Next meet?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 May '01

23 May '01

>When's the next meet and where? I think it is the 17th June at UEA, someone is seeing if a room is available then, I think. Jen

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 23 May '01

23 May '01

I think Adrian was saying it should be written in vi... err.. emacs rather than Lyx! Cisco's?? Been there done that! Bing Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 04/05/2001 13:37:34 To: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI@FTI cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... Andrew Chandler wrote: > > 'Word produces HTML", but that's no excuse!! > You tell him Adrian! err.. what's that got to do with the price of eggs, LaTeX is LaTeX no matter how it is written ;).. go and break some cisco's ;).. Sz > > Bing > -- Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

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oreilly, static linking & UEA meetings
by LxS 23 May '01

23 May '01

DF sparked my interest in system-stylee programming again, so I have a couple of questions: a) At the last UEA meeting, I heard ALUG had been offered a 25% O'Reilly discount. I thought, mmm, munch. Is this going to be honoured as an ALUG-library only option, or if I come up with a huge order can I route it thru ALUG? b) I'm trying to build and link against a static library: gcc -g -Wall -o libdog.o libdog.c ar rcs libdog.a libdog.o gcc -g -Wall -o sll.o sll.c ld -L. -ldog -o sll sll.o libdog.c: #includes void speak() { printf("Arf!\n"); } sll.c: #includes [extern] void speak(); int main(int argc, char** argv) { speak(); return 0; } The ld command warns me that it can't find a _start symbol, then wibbles about undefined symbol speak. It definitely finds libdog.a though (from -verbose), and nm libdog.a reports something very much like: libdog.a: 00000000 t Letext U printf 00000006 T speak I've tried it with and without extern. Given I figured out how to build & link shared libraries for JNI, on AIX, with only man pages, I'm feeling fairly annoyed at myself for not being able to do statics with a big book in front of me. Help! Finally, I might be able to help out with organising UEA ALUG meetings. Being a student, I go onto campus pretty regularly anyway. Mail me, MJR. Alexis -- http://www.ikitten.co.uk "C++ : an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog" "Resolve first your body and mind, your private relationships and your public ones. The state will soon follow." - Confucian-esque "I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have" - T Jefferson

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Re: [Alug] oreilly, static linking & UEA meetings
by MJ Ray 22 May '01

22 May '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)zeus.com> writes: > David Freeman wrote: > > a-1) Subscribe from the email address you wish to post, otherwise we > > have to auth your posts each time. > Unfortunatly, Mailman looks at the Sender: mail header which may not be > the same as your subscribed email address (especially in an enviroment > with multiple outgoing relays), This is correct behaviour, I believe. Others may like to comment *AFTER* reading the standards. > and as the sender header should point to mail relay where the > mail originally came from not a arbitarily defined one The sender header should point to a valid email address for the sender and preferably be in the canonical form for that address. Think of it as the reverse of envelope rewriting on the incoming feed. > (eg the sender header for this mail will point to > abower(a)pandora.zeus.co.uk which is a valid mail relay but my email > address is abower(a)zeus.com). Worst case if your mail server admin doesn't correct it: subscribe abower(a)pandora.etc and set it not to get email (nomail). -- MJR

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Help I need a new ISP
by Adam Bower 22 May '01

22 May '01

Hi all, I have just about to give up on Force9 as my ISP as they won't fix a problem I let them know about a week ago, so as It happens I need some help with picking a new ISP and I hope you guys may provide some advice! Anyway the following is what part of what I posted in alt.internet.providers.uk So the services I need are:- Hosting for my domain Dial-up Newsgroups Unix shell account (pref with ssh from anywhere) some Webspace (not a huge amount) No Traffic servers or web caches Decent service, I don't want anyone who is a fly-by-night, complete muppets, or likely to go bankrupt in the next five minutes. 0800 numbers would be nice, but I am about to go to Australia for a year so I would rather make sure they provide good access to my email from remote. I would currently be thinking of someone like Demon, but I have heard bad things about them recently so would like some more suggestions. Thanks Adam

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Fw: [Alug] Help I need a new ISP
by Dan Jones 22 May '01

22 May '01

</UNLURK> You could also look at http://www.ukshells.com for shell account - offers remote telnet, ssh, and telnet (on port 80 for those troublesome work firewalls) - Some boxes also have telnet on port 443 also ! We don't do dialup, and most customers use whoever is cheapest at the time (most use BTI at the moment).. Remote IMAP, ssh, webmail running on a SSL port (in beta with our 50 "testers" atm), POP3, PHP4, procmail access etc, all on our own 45Mbit ATM link here in the west midlands. Yes, I work there, and I moved from the alug region last year to work here full time late last year, although I'm back in Suffolk most weekends. We're stable, and have been selling shell accounts in the UK since 1996 (as redvan.net originally). Oh, I am on the birmingham LUG list, but its not as good as ALUG, although I have yet to attend an ALUG meeting (always busy on Sundays!) Regards Dan J <LURK> Adam Bower wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have just about to give up on Force9 as my ISP as they won't fix a > problem I let them know about a week ago, so as It happens I need some > help with picking a new ISP and I hope you guys may provide some advice! > > Anyway the following is what part of what I posted in > alt.internet.providers.uk > > So the services I need are:- > > Hosting for my domain > Dial-up > Newsgroups > Unix shell account (pref with ssh from anywhere) > some Webspace (not a huge amount) > No Traffic servers or web caches > Decent service, I don't want anyone who is a fly-by-night, complete > muppets, or likely to go bankrupt in the next five minutes. > > 0800 numbers would be nice, but I am about to go to Australia for a year > so I would rather make sure they provide good access to my email from > remote. > > I would currently be thinking of someone like Demon, but I have heard > bad things about them recently so would like some more suggestions. > > Thanks > Adam The shell account will be your problem, I think. Google now do newsgroups, see http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/19070.html I don't do dial-up (which won't help in Aus for a year), but I do the rest, and fit the rest of your criteria. I would consider a shell account, seeing as it's you, but you'd need to justify why you need it (no telnet, only ssh). Normally, there's no way I'd allow a shell account on one of my live systems. We run POP3, so remote access to email isn't a problem, and we're working on secure POP, and a web-based mail browser. I filter spam, adding to the access list daily as I receive it. Oh, and it's all on Linux. Usual charge is £100 pa. but I may be able to convince himself to offer an alug discount. Cheers, Laurie. PS. Zeus are doing a presentation at Adastral Park soon: will you be there? I will. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 --------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Suggestion: Member's web space & SuSE contact change
by Martyn Drake 21 May '01

21 May '01

But I'd thought I would like to offer ALUG members 100Mb free web space (and free of any banners!) with a URL either hanging off of www.alug.org.uk or hostname.alug.org.uk. Stats provided. The only catch is please don't generate 10Gb of traffic per month, otherwise that'll cost me a small fortune :)) So no p0rn! :) The main ALUG site has actually moved from Webfusion to Rackspace where it's (a) cheaper, (b) more bandwidth available, (c) far better connectivity and (d) support actually have a clue if things go wibbly. Now, I've also received SuSE Professional 7.1 from the kind folk at SuSE and having finished using it myself (I'm now exploring the joys of Red Hat 7.1 and Mandrake 8.0). As I'm now leaving Norfolk permanently for the joys of Kingston Upon Thames in London, I'd like to forward this on to someone (as well as any future updates) so that it can be properly distributed as these days I can't make as many meetings as usual. That's my updates for this millenium. :) Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Configuring network card (again)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 21 May '01

21 May '01

>>....and do insmod 3c5x9 Good grief! I did this and it showed the correct info. Strange, I thought, and proceeded to bring up the interface. This also suddenly is working. (hmmmmm) And eth0 is also showing in ifconfig. All I can think is that when i ran modconf I did two things - deleted the dummy0 module and tried installing the 3c509, the latter which just brought up errors yesterday. Perhaps restarting the computer and having no dummy0 in place caused the eth0 mod to do whatever it needed to do properly? Still not pinging anything on the network though. Pinging my own IP shows it is using loopback, and tcpdump then shows for trying to reach anything else on the network: 13:40:32.704186 eth0 > arp who-has jenny?TCL tell TRX850/TCL (0:a0:24:2:cf:26) 13:40:35.694822 lo > TRX850/TCL > TRX850/TCL: icmp: host jenny/TCL unreachable [tos 0xc0] Does this mean anything to anyone? Heff! Heff! A hoffable herralump! Thanks, Jenny. PS. Next time I splash out on the netgear.

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Weekly IRC meeting reminder
by Adam Bower 21 May '01

21 May '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: [Alug] BTTV atlast
by MJ Ray 20 May '01

20 May '01

> > Can anybody tell me when the next meeting (in or around Norwich) > > will be please? I still need help persuading the network and sound > > devices in my machine to work. I was hoping for mid-June, but it seems that the May meeting is currently Missing In Action. Is it going to happen, or do we just go ahead and plan Yet Another Norwich Meeting for June 10th? For probably the penultimate time, I can arrange a room at UEA, but can anyone else (preferably from near Norwich) act as co-ordinator? It's quite a simple task, just keeping some lists of who's bringing what and who wants to see what, etc, and emailing us to move us along. History shows I'm very bad at it, though. -- MJR (PS: Today, David, I am going to be a muppet who can't tell his fs from his rs.)

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Re: [Alug] Configuring network card (again)
by David Freeman 20 May '01

20 May '01

--- Raphael Mankin <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > On 20-May-01 David Freeman wrote: > > > > --- Raphael Mankin <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> In general, your primary net card should be compiled in and not a > >> module. You > >> can get away with it if you add to your conf.modules (or > >> modules.conf) a line > >> like > >> alias eth0 3c509 (or whatever the module is called) > >> The alternative is to ensure that an explciit modprobe is done for > >> the card > >> before you try to configure the network. Dig around in /etc/rc* to > >> find out > >> where to put it. > > > > Why should it be compiled in? surely this is a bad idea as every > time > > you change card you need to recompile the whole kernel. > [snip] > > In general, I agree with you, and that is fine for those who are hapy > with > doing all the tinkering that is necessary in places like > modules.conf. > Howver, newbies are likely to be bitten by this, and in the > particular case of > network cards, which need to have their modules loaded quite early in > the > startup sequence, it is easier to have them compiled in. Why? it means that it isn't as versitile and that you can only support a small number of cards compiled in. Its better to have one of the init scripts go and load the required modules, its not even difficult to write tool which will aid choosing the correct modules. That way you can just distribute modules as extras etc... To me it just makes sense. > I do exactly the same as you do in my Slackware system, and for the > same > reasons: I am forever swapping network cards around. However for > simple usage > stick to simple configurations; you are less likely to be bitten by > something > unexpected. Which requires a complex kernel recompile when you want to upgrade from 10Mbps to 100Mbps? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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ALUG Librarian stuff
by brodders＠cwcom.net 20 May '01

20 May '01

This is a repost as the original didn't seem to turn up - or if it did, no - one commented! ======================================================== ALUG Librarian and Security stuff Hi. Been thinking over things and have some thoughts re Librarian & Security. Librarian ========= Who volunteers for this? The Librarian has to be present at all meets and must oversee all returns / loans, maintain the database, fixe occasional errors, chase people for overdues, carry out stocktakes - and bring the current ALUG stock with them to every meet in case a loan is wanted. May need a truck. I don't like this - would you do it? - so I've been kicking around the idea of allowing casual person-person item passing. These need to be verified transactions on the database otherwise fraud is simple. The protocol I suggest below is - good enough?? Comments appreciated. What I've got is: Stock items are scattered i.e. held by who-ever-has-them-right-now. A potential borrower searches the library database and discovers Item X. They request Item X. The database sends an email to the current holder saying to bring Item X to the next meet. The database generates a random "release key" for the trade and emails it to the requestor. Eventually Item X and the release key change hands. The old holder enters the release key into the database and the transaction is verified. Kicker: Until the release key is in & verified the old holder is responsible for Item X; responsibility gets passed to the new borrower by entering the key. Further, requests for popular items can be stacked (that's the idea behind having requests as transactions; these can be ordered by item / time sequence making a request stack - as well as other very useful life-history stuff). Is this adequate?? There is still a need for a librarian - but the job is much less onerous, for it frees them from compulsory attendance, involvement in every transaction & removes the "drag-the-stock-about" problem. Also, an item swap is not geographically limited to a meet - could be down a local pub etc. Again please kick holes in it people! Security ======== Other than people hacking in and diddling the transactions database, items database etc to generally kill the system there is a security issue over the names & addresses and account passwords. I want to encrypt the lot; ideally the entire database. And the transactions from server to client must be secure too otherwise login accounts get compromised. This is a job for an expert. I can get the database functional - but I would not put the system live in unencrypted form. Also does this complicate backup/restore/maintenance? Ill databases are tricky; an ill, encrypted database might be quite irrecoverable & un-de-encryptable. Security Expert Needed! Steve

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Re: [Alug] BTTV atlast
by David Freeman 20 May '01

20 May '01

I can't but if you send this mail to the list I think they may be able to help Thanks D PS I have CC'd this to the list for you. --- linux user stuff <linux(a)wymondham.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On Fri 18 May, David Freeman wrote: > > As those of you who have been to meetings recently and followed a > > number of threads will know I have been trying to get my WinTV card > to > > Can anybody tell me when the next meeting (in or around Norwich) will > be > please? I still need help persuading the network and sound devices in > my > machine to work. > > -- > __ __| |_ __ __ .------------------------------------------. > / _/ _` \ V V / | mailto:linux@wymondham.demon.co.uk | > \__\__,_|\_/\_/ |__________________________________________| > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] List news
by MJ Ray 19 May '01

19 May '01

I've told a couple of people this, so let's say it to the entire list. If you think you are subscribed from the wrong email address, it will be faster to do it yourself from the web interface and resubscribe from your email client. Then it will definitely get the right email address for you. Unsub at http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/list/alug (you may need to ask for a password to be emailed to you). Resubscribe with an email to alug-subscribe(a)stu.uea.ac.uk (I hope that's right!) -- MJR

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List news
by MJ Ray 18 May '01

18 May '01

Just to keep you up to date: - The main ALUG list now only allows subscribers to post. You should ensure that your email *envelope* addresses are correct. It should at least be a returnable address, else you won't know that there's a problem until the list admins swing into action. Today, oms101@charly is our invalid address. It's just a case of making sure your email software is installed properly. - There will be an -announce list sent out as digests at irregular intervals and everyone can submit articles which will be queued up for review. Not quite sure when this will appear, but alug@stu should get a copy anyway, I think. Enjoy.... -- MJR

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BTTV atlast
by David Freeman 18 May '01

18 May '01

As those of you who have been to meetings recently and followed a number of threads will know I have been trying to get my WinTV card to work properly under Linux. And finally I have got it to work! I now have a TV in my room. Thanks to all who helped and advised Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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RE: [Alug] Configuring network card (again)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 18 May '01

18 May '01

Thanks, Owen. I'll take the plunge on Monday with a dos disk then (my bro has one). I don't know why I am worrying, as i have nothing of import on there, it's just set up to play with really. Things have gone from bad to worse as usual, though, as I discovered from insmod that it thinks io=300 and IRQ=11. /modutils/3c509 was edited to show io=280 and IRQ=10. I edited modutils to reflect what the card thinks it is, but it won't show up at all now - no eth0. So what I am being told to do using the dos disk is to get into the NIC and tell that that it has to be 280 and 10, rather than the other way around? Many sorrows for the idiotic incomprehension. Most people seem to install linux and either everything works or they kind of understand this stuff by osmosis of some kind. Jenny

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Re: [Alug] Modems
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 May '01

15 May '01

John: Another link you could try to see if it is compatible is http://members.tripod.co.uk/uk_radio_amateurs/modemlin.html Good luck! I never did get my diamond modem to work. jenny.

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Modems
by John Squires 14 May '01

14 May '01

Help! I am a new user to Linux, and I have recently installed Mandrake 7.1. It has been having problems detecting my modem. I would like to know if there is a patch or utility which can be used to overcome this problem? as I feel blind without the use of a modem, or what type of modem would be best to use with a Linux OS, help! I live in the Waterbeach/Cambridge area. John (Desperate) Squires. (My current modem is a HSP56 MicroModem made by PCtel, inc)

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Weekly IRC meeting reminder
by Adam Bower 14 May '01

14 May '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Well, we may need a license to work now!
by David Freeman 13 May '01

13 May '01

Just when you though the RIP bill was bad enough, Mr Jack - you will only do what I want and I will read you email - Straw has had passed a new Bill - Private Security Industry Bill [HL] - which will require everyone to have a license to be in the security business, which due to (either intentially or not) bad wording will effect those of us in the IT industry who provide security services! The Text of the bill (now ACT) can be found at http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200001/cmbills/067/2… Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Linux on Macs
by Joss Winn 12 May '01

12 May '01

Is anyone on this list using Linux on a Macintosh? If not, would anyone care for a summary of the current state of Linux on Macs? There are some interesting things going on. For the most part, it is very similar to Linux on x86, but there are some noteworthy differences to consider. I hardly every use the Apple OS these days (I triple boot with Apple OS 9.1, Apple OS X -BSD/Darwin - and Linux), but I would still buy Apple hardware for Linux. Just curious. I could write something up if people are interested. Nothing evangelical....just a summary of things going on in the Linux on Mac world. Pros and cons..... Joss

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Re: [Alug] ALug FAQ submissions wanted
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 May '01

11 May '01

Q>What happens at an ALUG meeting? Do I need to bring anything? A>A meeting tends to consist of an informal gathering where members turn up with various computers and network them together, then compare various OS, linux-related hints, swap software etc. It isn't necessary to bring any hardware along, however: you can come just to watch and learn, or ask questions. Bring biscuits! Q> Is it okay to post basic *newbie* questions to the list, or will that be annoying to other more hardcore members? A>{heh heh! Still waiting to find out the answer on this one} ;-)

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Backing up
by David Freeman 11 May '01

11 May '01

All, I am thinking it may be a good time to start thinking about backing up the data on my HDD. I am after a cheap method and I though about getting a CDRW drive now they are sub £100. Is this a good idea? can I just use tar to put it all on a cdrw each week? What would people recommend? Will any CDRW drive work with Linux? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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ALug FAQ submissions wanted
by Adam Bower 11 May '01

11 May '01

Hi All As I promised many moons ago I started writting a FAQ today as I am feeling ill. I just had a thought it should really be a collaborative document so as I got bored after 15 minutes of writing I decided I would put up the text I have written and ask for submissions. I have a week off work next week and could really spend some time on this so could you please send anything you would like in the FAQ to me, could you also make sure you CC: it to adamb(a)thebowery.co.uk The kind of submissions I am looking for are genuine question/response not just a bunch of useful links, If I receive a similar Q/A from more than one person then I will re-write where appropriate. Make sure you include the name you want to be listed as under the contributers bit at the end of the text also, bit I will not put in anybodys email address unless asked to. Please find the first bit of text attached below, If anyone thinks it is really crap and completley the wrong way of going about things please let me know now before I pour all of my heart into it ;-) Also if anyone has any grevious complaint about me doing this please make it public now. Adam ALug FAQ Version 0.01 Current maintainer abower(a)zeus.com Last Updated 09/May/2001 14:17 DISCLAIMER This is a very early document and nothing in it is to be taken at face value! This is intended to be a useful FAQ for people wanting to learn more about the Anglian Linux user group, The documentation contained here may be complete lies or incorrect. If you disagree with something contained here please contact the current maintainer given at the top of this document. The ALug gives no responsibility for anything that is incorrect breaks your computer, someone elses computer, causes your house to burn down or someone elses we also accept no responsibility if this document causes the end of the world, invasion by aliens or causes you to be dragged through a wormhole into another dimension. What is the ALug? The ALug is the Anglian Linux user group, we are based in the UK and primarily cover the countys of Norfolk, Suffolk, Cambridge and Essex although members are encouraged from all over the universe and will be made to feel welcome. We are quite diverse in geographic location even as far as having members in Japan. What does the ALug do? We exists primarily to advocate the use of Linux as an mainstream computer operating system and provide support to beginners and hardened veterans. We are a social group who try to arrange regular meetings throughout East-anglia to provide advocacy, help and have a chat over things not only related to computers. We have a mailing list for people to post to with problems they are having with Linux and GNU software and for discussion of Linux related items. We also have a weekly meeting held on Irc where discussion can be very wide ranging. (see below for more info on Irc) What the ALug does not do? We are not a secret society planning to take over the world while worshipping a giant Penguin called Tux. (honest) What is acceptable for discussion? Generally anything to do with *nix like operating systems and related software current related media news.

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Re: [Alug] Next Meeting
by brodders＠cwcom.net 11 May '01

11 May '01

Ditto. If Norwich then weekends only (near Ipswich fine during week...) Steve > >>How do people feel about weekday evening meetings? >Personally, living in Burwell, I wouldn't be able to make them. > > > >_______________________________________________ >alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list >Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk >http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug >See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! >

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Re: [Alug] Next Meeting
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 May '01

11 May '01

>How do people feel about weekday evening meetings? Personally, living in Burwell, I wouldn't be able to make them.

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Re: Backing up
by Joss Winn 11 May '01

11 May '01

> > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:03:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: [Alug] Backing up > > All, > > I am thinking it may be a good time to start thinking about backing up > the data on my HDD. I am after a cheap method and I though about > getting a CDRW drive now they are sub 」100. Is this a good idea? can I > just use tar to put it all on a cdrw each week? What would people > recommend? Will any CDRW drive work with Linux? > > Thanks > > D > > This sounds good. It's very roughly what I do. My methods below might sound OTT but it has saved me in the past. Take what you like from it.... I run a nightly cronjob that backs up all the changes in the last 24hrs from my home folder (usually about 20mb). I also run a weekly cronjob that does the same (about 100mb). Those tar files are sent to a partition entirely separate from anything Linux. To my Macintosh partition actually. Then, when that 'backup' partition gets full, like it is doing now, I back up my entire home folder (1gb) and burn the lot onto a couple of CDs. I do this about once a month. Sure, I have multiple backups of a lot of stuff, but I like it that way, because if I make a stupid error somewhere down the line, I can usually just go back to the backup I made the day before the error and rescue those backed up files. It works as a kind of archive of backups. When I feel confident that a set of backups is no use to me any more, I proudly use the CD to put my coffee on. This may well sound like unnecessary repetition, but it's all automated, so I don't do anything except burn a few CDs every month. My CD burner is firewire, so it won't work in Linux just yet, which is why I use a back up partition. I could buy some USB storage, but I'm willing to wait for decent firewire support in Linux. USB is so bloody slow. Like I said, the above very recently saved me from redoing four months of work.... cheers joss p.s. it's a good idea to run the cronjob so it avoids backing up your browser cache. That keeps the tar size down quite considerably.

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Next Meeting
by MJ Ray 11 May '01

11 May '01

Are we still hoping for a meeting at the end of May? Has something been arranged and I missed it? Someone from UEA has suggested that the next meeting at UEA shouldn't be at a weekend. How do people feel about weekday evening meetings? Personally, I'd not be overjoyed and suspect room bookings might be more difficult (Union House not really available because of Ents, so need to use main university buildings), but if it's what people want... -- MJR

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ALUG Library: Librarian and Security stuff
by brodders＠cwcom.net 09 May '01

09 May '01

ALUGL Librarian and Security stuff Hi. Been thinking over things and have some thoughts re Librarian & Security. Librarian =========== Who volunteers for this? The Librarian has to be present at all meets and must oversee all returns / loans, maintain the database, fixe occasional errors, chase people for overdues, carry out stocktakes and bring the current ALUG stock with them to every meet in case a loan is wanted. May need a truck I dont like this would you do it? so Ive been kicking around the idea of allowing casual person-person item passing. These need to be verified transactions on the database otherwise fraud is simple. The protocol I suggest below is good enough?? Comments appreciated. What Ive got is: Stock items are scattered i.e. held by who-ever-has-them-right-now. A potential borrower searches the library database and discovers Item X. They request Item X. The database sends an email to the current holder saying to bring Item X to the next meet. The database generates a random release key for the trade and emails it to the requestor. Eventually Item X and the release key change hands. The old holder enters the release key into the database and the transaction is verified. Kicker: Until the release key is in & verified the old holder is responsible for Item X; responsibility gets passed to the new borrower by entering the key. Further, requests for popular items can be stacked (thats the idea behind having requests as transactions; these can be ordered by item / time sequence making a request stack as well as other very useful life-history stuff). Is this adequate?? There is still a need for a librarian but the job is much less onerous, for it frees them from compulsory attendance, involvement in every transaction & removes the drag-the-stock-about problem. Also, an item swap is not geographically limited to a meet could be down a local pub etc. Again please kick holes in it people! Security =========== Other than people hacking in and diddling the transactions database, items database etc to generally kill the system there is a security issue over the names & addresses and account passwords. I want to encrypt the lot; ideally the entire database. And the transactions from server to client must be secure too otherwise login accounts get compromised. This is a job for an expert. I can get the database functional but I would not put the system live in unencrypted form. Also does this complicate backup/restore/maintenance? Ill databases are tricky; an ill, encrypted database might be quite irrecoverable & un-de-encryptable. Security Expert Needed! Steve

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Spam Blockers
by KEV＠hartmann.dk 09 May '01

09 May '01

Hi, IMHO option 3 should work against most. Kevvy alug-admin@stu .uea.ac.uk To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: 06/05/01 06:26 Subject: alug digest, Vol 1 #223 - 9 msgs Please respond to alug Message: 7 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 06 May 2001 01:16:23 +0100 Subject: [Alug] Increasing spam We're getting more spam now. There are a number of options open to us: 1. Can whoever has posted our mailing list address on a web site *please* remove it again and email alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk to let us know? 2. We can lock the list down so that only subscribed addresses can sent without being approved. 3. We can lock the list down so that only emails with [Alug] in the subject line are allowed through. 4. We can try to fight a rear-guard action and try to block obvious spammers. 5. We can hold anything which looks like it might possibly be spam for approval 6. We can ask Brett to hook the list software up to ORBS or MAPS. Opinions/votes? I hope that option 1 would work, but I quite like option 3 too. -- MJR --__--__--

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Re: [Alug] Increasing spam
by MJ Ray 09 May '01

09 May '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > I think that 4 is a little dificult, you can setup the mail > server to use RBL/ORBS, but in my experience the spammers change addrees > regularly an this becomes a little pointless If the mail server uses RBL or ORBS and adds headers, we could hold any posts with the warning headers for approval. Anyway, we're doing option 2 (restrict free posting to subscribed addresses), so make sure your subscription address (emailed to you last week) matches the address you use. -- MJR

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Increasing spam
by MJ Ray 08 May '01

08 May '01

We're getting more spam now. There are a number of options open to us: 1. Can whoever has posted our mailing list address on a web site *please* remove it again and email alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk to let us know? 2. We can lock the list down so that only subscribed addresses can sent without being approved. 3. We can lock the list down so that only emails with [Alug] in the subject line are allowed through. 4. We can try to fight a rear-guard action and try to block obvious spammers. 5. We can hold anything which looks like it might possibly be spam for approval 6. We can ask Brett to hook the list software up to ORBS or MAPS. Opinions/votes? I hope that option 1 would work, but I quite like option 3 too. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Increasing spam
by Peter Delf 08 May '01

08 May '01

>> The first and easiest is to make subscription into a two step process. >I think it already is. was for me. Peter Delf u9947868 and yes it is technically SYS U1 >-- >MJR _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Re: [Alug] More on spam
by MJ Ray 08 May '01

08 May '01

Laurie Brown <laurie(a)brownowl.com> writes: > relay: relay=catalog.com [207.240.40.4]. I've mailed them several times, > as it happens, I'm a catalog customer myself, but they refuse to do > anything about it. Are there any sanctions I can intitiate? Is there > anywhere to report them to? MAPS and ORBS are the best places. When their email to a significant number of sites starts bouncing, people tend to move. Maybe their upstream provider has something in their AUP against it? It's a lot of work to take it beyond ORBS and MAPS, though. > I'm withdrawing my business from them, not just because of this, but > because I no longer need their services. If you've no compelling reason otherwise, tell them it is because of this. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Newbie needs help
by MJ Ray 08 May '01

08 May '01

linux user stuff <linux(a)wymondham.demon.co.uk> writes: > I know I shouldn't but I normally log on as root but I'm the only person > using the machine. Still a bad idea. Can you say "virus" or "trojan"? Permissions are your friends. > It said similar thing about the Ethernet controller with the device ID as 900 > (see above in the bit about the module) and IRQ still as 11 and different > I/O addresses of course. It looks like the sis900 is supposed to discover these by itself. Does "lsmod" show sis900 as loaded? What is the exact error caused by a "modprobe sis900"? It looks like wrong IRQ/IO settings, but it ought to work themselves out. Most confusing. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] MS Access
by Laurie Brown 08 May '01

08 May '01

"Ashley T. Howes" wrote: > Would you mind sharing the macro (or point me in a direction which > would > help me construct one). This would be very useful for me. > > Thanks for any help you can give. Ashley, Here's one: http://www.slink.net/mpdb/docs/msaccess.html I can't remember if it's the base for the one we use or not, but I do know we made quite a few changes to ours. I don't have ours here, but this will get you started. I found it doing a google search using "msaccess macro mysql" Cheers, Laurie. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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More on spam
by Laurie Brown 08 May '01

08 May '01

Folks, I've set up spam filtering on my servers using sendmail's "access" database, and it workes very well. The only downside is that I need to add new domains to it several times a day, but it is catching spam, no question. You may ask why I don't use the RBL and stuff; it's because I need control: I get a lot of hotmail, yahoo, and suchlike mail, which often includes spam. Anyway, a large amount of it comes through this relay: relay=catalog.com [207.240.40.4]. I've mailed them several times, as it happens, I'm a catalog customer myself, but they refuse to do anything about it. Are there any sanctions I can intitiate? Is there anywhere to report them to? I'm withdrawing my business from them, not just because of this, but because I no longer need their services. Cheers, Laurie. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Alug] Newbie needs help
by linux user stuff 08 May '01

08 May '01

On Mon 07 May, Ashley T. Howes wrote: > on 6/5/01 11:11 pm, linux user stuff at linux(a)wymondham.demon.co.uk wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Following a successful install of RedHat 6.0 on an older machine I have > > recently changed to a Mandrake 7.2 and a quicker machine with all the > > bells and whistles on the motherboard. This includes networking, sound [snip] > Mandrake is normally quite good at picking up the correct sound and network > card during installation. You need to consult your motherboard > documentation to find out what chipset is being used for sound and network. > If you are lucky a module should be available for the kernel to get your > network/sound working. Mandrake has the redhat linuxconf config utility > which makes setting this up easier. There is a GUI to this tool. Logon as > root, KDE session. Double click on DrakConf. I know I shouldn't but I normally log on as root but I'm the only person using the machine. > If your network and sound card are not available as modules then you may > need to compile source code. Check the website of your > motherboard/sound/network card provider for support information wrt using > linux. > If a module is *.o then that's on the hard drive. I get the message /lib/modules/2.2.17-21mdk/net/sis900.o init-module: Device or resource is busy, similarly for sound. I thought I might need to start editing some files to have the system point to the module but plainly it's seeing it. David Freeman said - do a more /proc/pci Did that and it came back with a lot of stuff but the only valid bit was stuff about the vendor - SIS, device ID=7018, IRQ 11 and I/O addresses. It said similar thing about the Ethernet controller with the device ID as 900 (see above in the bit about the module) and IRQ still as 11 and different I/O addresses of course. I've been trying to find some info on the web about sound and it suggested I look at modules.conf. Did that and in that file it says this - alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-trident post-install snd-card-trident modprobe snd-pcm-oss and for the LAN stuff alias eth0 sis900 alias eth1 sis900 So do I edit/delete any of that or leave well alone? ;-) -- __ __| |_ __ __ .------------------------------------------. / _/ _` \ V V / | mailto:linux@wymondham.demon.co.uk | \__\__,_|\_/\_/ |__________________________________________|

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Re: [Alug] List splitting
by MJ Ray 08 May '01

08 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > d) Alug for general LINUX help and chat, ALUG-announce (announcements > only) and then secret-admirers (for chat about hacking type stuff like No, I think I'm going to side with Andrew here and leave the alug list itself alone. We ought to get -announce back up and maybe add -help or -newbies. > News != good. to much risk of spamming. It's more that in order to allow news posts to forward to the list, we'd need to stop checking for posters being valid list members. There may be a way around this, but I need to look. > 5. upto date archives so people can view the list via the web. 4 surely? Are the archives broken? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] -newbie list
by Peter Delf 07 May '01

07 May '01

>----- Original Message ----- >From: "MJ Ray" <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> >To: "Peter Delf" <p.delf(a)uea.ac.uk> >Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 8:12 PM >Subject: Re: [Alug] -newbie list > >SYS U1? u99....? Surely not? ;-) Changed my course from Computer Systems Engineering (4 year) to Computer Science (3 year). Back in first year again. Joy. >-- >MJR

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MS Access
by David Freeman 07 May '01

07 May '01

Yet another email from me. I need a app for linux which is compatable with MS access and provides most of the same functionality as Access. The reason being is my next college assignment is to design a database in access which is handed in in access format. unfortunatly my idea of a shell script using text files and sed/awk/grep didn't go down well :o( So can anyone suggest a suitable app? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Increasing spam
by MJ Ray 07 May '01

07 May '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > The first and easiest is to make subscription into a two step process. I think it already is. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by David Freeman 07 May '01

07 May '01

-- Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:02:08AM -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > But I've just written my first kernel MODULE!!! and it work, which > was > > a big surprise > > What does it do? Prints Hello World of course, a programmer like you should know that thats the first program you always right :o) Seriously when you insmod it it prints hello world. and when you rmmod it prints goodbye cruel world. > > One language I don't want to learn is C++. > > I am interested as to why you should say that. > > I get the impression that there are many people who think that C++ > isn't a terribly pure language or that it doesn't have a particularly > clean design. It is, however, very sucessful. True, bit like windows :o) > I don't think there is any doubt that a language such as C++ is a > compromise as C was before it, but compromise isn't necessarily bad. Exactly, and a compromise is the worst parts of all solutions. The language I am liking at the moment is java, it just makes sense with the OO design etc... > Considering C, I would suggest that without a language like C there > would be no portable OS like Unix and Linux. Writing in Assembler > would give the required level of run time efficiency and the ability > to talk to the hardware when required but not the portability, and > just about every other language would have been too inefficient, or > unable to access the hardware at the required level. I would agree, C was one of those things which changed history, without it we would never have the computer revolution we have now. It is however over 30 yrs old, which means it's not as modern and good as a language which was designed recently. > When it comes to the emergence of C++ I would suggest that run time > efficiency was still a concern, but there was the added incentive to > use C++ - compatibility with C. Agreed. > As time goes by, run time efficiency is becoming less of a concern > and > p-code and interpreted languages are now quite realistic for > "serious" > applications - even so, someone in our office was complaining today > how > much slower the Oracle GUI tools written in Java (8.1.6) are than the > previous ones (7.3.4) not written in Java (I would guess at C++ but > that is just a guess). Exactly, some of the things which in the past would be written such that they would run fast, but now powerful hardware can coverup alot of bad practice. > > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming > > languages, particully the language people first learnt was there > > favourite and all others are programmed as if they were using the > > first language. > > I'm not sure that this is the case. There is with alot of people I know who program. > The first language I learnt was BASIC on the Sinclair ZX81. All > variable names had to be kept short, there were no blocks, no named > functions or procedures, IF statements couldn't have an ELSE part, > there was no DO WHILE or REPEAT UNTIL so there had to be lots of > GOTOs > and GOSUBs. BBC basic @ 9 yrs old, horrible language, then Visual Basic - I agree with ESR "about as uch fun as a picnic in a toxic waste dump" Z80 assembler and then C. Since learing C I have learnt Java and it makes more sense to me than procedural programming. > I would not be caught programming now in the way that I had to for > that version of basic. Take a look at your older code, you will notice you did very BASIC things in C, I know I have tried these things. > I think it may be the case though that the general methodology that > one first learns becomes the default. Those people whose first taste > was with procedural programming may always find that more natural > than > OO or the kind of thinking required for Advanced use of SQL. Yes I would agree with this. Thanks D > Steve. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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-newbie list
by Peter Delf 07 May '01

07 May '01

I like the idea of starting a -newbie list to separate the beginners from the hardcore. I think all this talk about PHP/mySQL/XML databases and stuff is enough to scare off anyone thinking of trying Linux. Not quite a linux user, yet. My first post, thankyou. /( )` \ \___ / | /- _ `-/ ' (/\/ \ \ /\ / / | ` \ Peter Delf O O ) / | p.delf(a)uea.ac.uk `-^--'`< ' (_.) _ ) / SYS U1, `.___/` / University of East Anglia, `-----' / Norwich, <----. __ / __ \ Norfolk, <----|====O)))==) \) /====England <----' `--' `.__,' \ | | http://www.uea.ac.uk/~u9947868 \ / ______( (_ / \______ ,' ,-----' | \ `--{__________) \/

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List splitting
by MJ Ray 07 May '01

07 May '01

This list is getting busy now and some people are unsubscribing because of the volume. What should we do? 1. Do nothing. Leave alug@stu as the one list and hope people use digest etc to filter it. 2. Split list. Break certain topics off into other lists. a) alug (LUG traffic only), alug-announce (announcements only), alug-talk (general chatter not necessarily ALUG-related) b) alug (as it has been usually), alug-hackers (in-depth tech talk) c) alug (as it has been this week), alug-help (general help) 3. Gateway onto a private news server somewhere. Should make it easier for people to only download stuff they want, but is possibly incompatible with the previously-discussed spam blocking. 4. Something else. -- MJR

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Newbie needs help
by linux user stuff 07 May '01

07 May '01

Hi, Following a successful install of RedHat 6.0 on an older machine I have recently changed to a Mandrake 7.2 and a quicker machine with all the bells and whistles on the motherboard. This includes networking, sound and USB. I don't have any USB devices but I'm blowed if I can get networking or sound working. The error is similar in both cases. The machine complains that the device or resource is busy. The only book I have refers to RH 4 something and I've lent that to somebody so it's not immediately to hand. Can anybody offer sensible suggestions as to how I can fix these problems? TIA. -- __ __| |_ __ __ .------------------------------------------. / _/ _` \ V V / | mailto:linux@wymondham.demon.co.uk | \__\__,_|\_/\_/ |__________________________________________|

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Re: [Alug] Increasing spam
by MJ Ray 07 May '01

07 May '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > > 2. We can lock the list down so that only subscribed addresses can > > sent without being approved. > Seems a reasonable course of action. We don't get many unsubscribed valid > people wanting to post, do we? Until we throw the switch, I can't tell. So, everyone, take this as a warning: make sure *now* that your emails appear to come from the same email address as you are subscribed from. In a few days, the list settings will be changed to allow only subscribers to post without approval. All others will be held for review (not bounced). > > 6. We can ask Brett to hook the list software up to ORBS or MAPS. > Seems fair. Brett, are you out there? Can you make exim add warning headers to matches on the blackhole lists, please? Then I will hold anything generating an ORBS or MAPS-RBL warning for approval. -- MJR

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Weekly IRC meeting reminder
by Adam Bower 07 May '01

07 May '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re [ALUG] Increasing Spam
by Mills 06 May '01

06 May '01

MJ Ray wrote: > We're getting more spam now. There are a number of options open to > us: [snipped] > 2. We can lock the list down so that only subscribed addresses can > sent without being approved. Do you mean only subscribers can post to this list? In my experience lists that allow non-members to post have spam, ones that don't, do not have spam. I have not been to any of the IRC meetings as an (ex-CWC) NTL user I cannot get free access to the Internet (i.e. call charges). I hope to get a cable modem if NTL hurries up. I was the person at Linuxday (at the UEA) who was given the Debian CD-R that was burned there. I now have installed it successfully. By the way do you think the Donald Knuth books are worth buying? As for the ALUG language debate :-), how about Miranda, which is available for Linux. Another possibility is that you could use Yag assembler which I am developing, perhaps a version LISP could be created for it. As the project is open we could develop clients in whatever languages liked, may be. If XHTML is I could use my web broswer as a client. PS Netscape sent this to Mark by mistake the first time, sorry. Yours Tarquin Mills

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Re: [Alug] MS Access
by MJ Ray 06 May '01

06 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > I need a app for linux which is compatable with MS access and provides > most of the same functionality as Access. [...] I believe PGAccess and Gnome-DB provide much of the same functionality, but I don't think anything is *compatible* with MS Access. Star Office might have something, but I don't have that to hand to look. Sorry, your tutor is hell-bent on making MS's money, it would seem. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 06 May '01

06 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Very True, but what method would you suggest instead of a clutch? Continuously Varying Ratios, what else? People don't like them because they don't sound or behave like a "conventional" car, though. > Personally I think OO is very sensible, but everything needs to be OO, > which Java and C++ aren't. Small talk I believe is the closest thing we > have to a true OO langauge. [...] Now this is why Ruby is attracting many compliments: everything is an object, so it is said. _Everything_. And it's been like that since the start. Anyone able to debunk those claims for me? ;-) > BBC basic was good for the reasons above, but bad cos it used goto's > etc... BBC BASIC *had* GOTO, but didn't *USE* it on its own ;-) -- MJR

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[Kevin Taylor <kevin@eala.uklinux.net>] [lugmaster] UK LUG News - start posting!
by MJ Ray 06 May '01

06 May '01

Am I becoming The Daily Spam or what? From: Kevin Taylor <kevin(a)eala.uklinux.net> Subject: UK LUG News - start posting! Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 21:49:17 +0100 I have finally gotten around to linking up to the news feed from thinkopen.co.uk (it used to be linuxuk.co.uk). The news section of lug.org.uk now pulls in all articles posted to thinkopen under the LUGS topic. So, instead of writing reports, etc, by hand (as I had done in the past) you are all invited to post any details of events, meetings, news, whatever you would like published, to thinkopen.co.uk (there is also a submit link from our lug.org.uk news page too). Have a look (although there is not too much present at the moment ...) by visting the news pages of lug.org.uk. (Does anyone want to start the ball rolling with a comment about their linuxday event for example?) As always, comments are invited. Kevin. -- MJR

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06 May '01

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Where history comes from.
by David Freeman 05 May '01

05 May '01

As many of you know the history is in the T-shirts, but this isn't really that relevent to what I was going to say, which was: BJ mentioned at the last meet we should get some T-shirts made. Which sounded like a bloody good idea. So I thought I would have aplay with some ideas. 1) Alug logo on back of T-shirt 2) as one but with ALUG below 3) as one but with ALUG in hex below 41 4C 55 47 4) as one but with ALUG in morse below .- -.- ..- --. 5) Tux on back with: a) ALUG in HEX 41 4c 55 47 b) ALUG in Binary 01000001 01001100 01010101 01000111 c) ALUG in Morse .- -.- ..- --. d) ALUG in borring text. ALUG What do people think? Suggestions please? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > Sz - K&R brackets are the only way to go ;) GNU Coding Standards, damnit! Oh, ah, whoops. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

"Adrian F. Clark" <alien(a)essex.ac.uk> writes: > What XML does is allow the database developer to define the _content_ > of what will eventually become a web page using application-oriented > tags and without having to worry about the page's appearance. In *theory*, you don't worry about appearance for most of the time in LaTeX. As with HTML, reality bites. > [...] In principle (though I've never seen it done) XML could > produce LaTeX so that we could get typeset output that looks better > than what spews out of Netscape, which is definitely of the same > kind of abysmal quality as Word. Well, you can look at this two ways: firstly, there are LaTeX ways to produce XML and manipulate XML (I think it's xmltex, but that might be wrong); secondly, XML can be rendered to FOP and then to PDFs which aren't bad at all, especially combined with SVG. However, it all smacks of reinventing wheels again, doesn't it? > The advantage XML over (say) keyword-value pairs is that XML allows > the developer to build up a tree-like structure that can be parsed and > processed by a standard piece of software. Indeed, but S-expressions (lispish ones to the rest of you) never really caught on, did they? Once again, the lispers got it right 40 years before everyone else, but have nothing to show for it but the knowledge that they were right 40 years before... > Anyway, Neill is using lyx, not pukka LaTeX -- urghhhh! Eeek, using a non-free library to boot! Burn him at the viva! ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

jo(a)yee-ha.demon.co.uk writes: > May I point out FastTemplates? It's a PHP class that allows you to > completely separate content from code. Templating systems only fix half the problem. You still end up with your data interface layer smashed into your system logic, and your program code sat in servable files and repeatedly reinterpreted. Yes, you can overcome both of these, but why not start with a framework which has the bits in the right places? To me, PHP is only good for quick little web toys. Flame me now. -- MJR Mr Ray has emigrated to beyond that very very big mountain and is urgently seeking a supplier of asbestos underclothes.

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[Kevin Taylor <kevin.taylor@gmx.co.uk>] UK Organisation for Open Source software in education
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

spam4u Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:38:15 +0200 (MEST) From: Kevin Taylor <kevin.taylor(a)gmx.co.uk> Subject: UK Organisation for Open Source software in education The UK OSiE initiative is moving forward, and we are looking for organisations/vendors/schools/etc who are interested in the use of Open Source software in education to add themselves into our lists. Could you maybe forward this message to your LUGs, (if you think it appropriate) so that anyone involved with education knows about what we are up to ...? Interested people should have a browse through our developers site at: http://osie.sourceforge.net/ Thanks, Kevin (Northants LUG and OSiE) -- MJR

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Please Forgive me
by Earl Brannigan 04 May '01

04 May '01

Sorry everyone, just posted and included the entire previous digest. (Well I thought after being 'reprimanded' for the long signature I'd get my own back!!) ;o) Cheers Have a good weekend Earl

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ALUG Library tranche 2
by brodders＠cwcom.net 04 May '01

04 May '01

Ooookay. Thanks all! Many ideas, but 1st port of call has to be a server. Doesn't ALUG have a server connected to UEA's JANET? Isn't that what we'd want? Had a look at http://www.uklinux.net/membership/ Free MySQL / PostgreSQL / PHP /Perl is for account holders calling from a LoCall number (0845 ono). If you dial up via other ISP's you don't get the databases. Well you can for £25 a year. That's for a single account; don't know what uklinux would think of a group of people using 1 account. Looks useful though. Postgres seems to have more approval over MySQL. What's the reason behind this? Also, I hold no Postgres documentation. This will cramp my style as I've no net connection evenings. Anyone got some PostgreSQL books? Have been following up suggestions & stuff on web. Could use koha - could use a nice PHP+MySQL app MyOrgBook (http://www.it-firm.com). These can show solutions / be a source of ideas; personally would like to be creative rather then copy. NFIT! How is Zeus?? I see admin type roles as something to avoid; suspect we can't eliminate completely but do have some thoughts. ASSUMING we trust ALUG people who've been through some security protocol (is this a can of worms I see before me?) then we might assign permissions by context of what they want to do. E.g. current holder of a book has authority to return it or assign it to a requestor. If we gave this some thought might be able to do without the librarian role. See my ravings below. Want to minimise demands at client end (Java?). Who is expert to adjudicate on this? This all seems to nicely fall into the classic client / server duties ...Brett, are you volunteering to do the client / GUI side of things? Dave, need to talk more about this - what's the form for big posts on such stuff? I am peripatetic so don't have web/IRC to hand - days can pass before I get posts. Hm. Anyhow glue technology consensus seems: Postgres - Java / JDBC - Perl ALUGL Schema 0.1 is below - rip it to bits people! Why won't it work? Where is it cumbersome? It's fairly normalised - must it be more? Tricks to speed it up? Security considerations? Too complex? Something missing? [key things to look for - errors and omissions] Dave, I've not attempted to integrate your schema into this version. ALUG Library Schema 0.1 Item Table ================================================== Item_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric Item_Type 1=book, 2=mass media, 3=hardware, 4=hat etc Title char 128 (name of item) ISBN 16 char (??) Publisher 128 char (manufacturer) Author 128 char (model) Edition 6 char Published date YYYY-MM (bought date) Return Mode 1=back to ALUG, 2=wanders, 3=back to owner Last Transaction => pointer to Tx Table.Tx_ID <Danger Will Robinson> Owned By => pointer to Person Table.Person.ID Description 8096 char or note field Condition Last Seen 1=new, 2=good, 3=poor, 4=scrap/discard Last Seen datestamp Entry Created datestamp Entry Updated datestamp Thus we can loan hats - or anything. They can return to ALUG always, the owner - or just wander about, person to person- more convenient that way. <Danger> Last Tx - not normal form & redundant but handy. Alas it turns a mostly read-only table into a read/write - I think it has to go, to minimise locks and write problems. Person Table ================================================== Person_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric First Name 32 char Last Name 128 char Alias 32 char (alternative name) Password hmm. How to get this secure? How much security needed? Aka => pointer to Person Table.Person_ID (1st (last) entry is ZERO) Phone 16 char Email 32 char Entry Created datestamp (DO we need address info??) Aka is about name changes etc. using a linked list; old name is still on system. Deleting old names dangles inbound pointers. Tx Table i.e. Transaction Table =================================================== Tx_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric Item_ID => pointer to Item Table.Item_ID Now With => pointer to Person Table.Person_ID Due Back YYYY-MM-DD Tx_Type 1=added to system, 2=borrowing, 3=discarded, 4=stocktake, 5=lost, 6=returned, 7=request Tx_Date datestamp Every transaction gets an entry. Due Back might be auto-set or agreed on the spot - even blank for long-term loan. Forms Needed ================================================== 1.1 Add Item 1.2 Edit Item 2.1 Add Person 2.2 Edit Person 3. New Transaction (loan, return, request, stocktake) With a little thought, we may be able to do without much admin. eg: (current borrower | owner ) has permission to create a Return or Loan. Anyone can Add Item. Owner only can Edit Item. Anyone can Add Person. Person only can Edit Person or Add Person as an Aka. Anyone can create a request. Need a proper state diagram showing permissions at each point; need to inspect this to see if any state gets painted into a corner. Queries ========================================== Where is Item? (= search for item) => links to Request & Loan Item transaction When does Item return? => links to Request Item transaction What has Person borrowed What has Person loaned out List all out List all in List all Items due back in next X days List overdues List Tx history Item, latest at top (could double as the search form) List Tx history Person (could double as the borrowings form) Auto-email for overdues & Person-has-requested-item-you-hold would be nice. ALUG would be created as a Person. Quick! Save it before it gets away! -Steve

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Re: ALUG Library
by Earl Brannigan 04 May '01

04 May '01

Hi all Time for a two-penneth, Postgres is great, use it in a commercial env works excellent. But for small functional goodie could be a bit of an overkill...? For knocking up quick web-content I have foudn Zope (www.zope.org) to be nothing short of Brilliant. Can speak to DB, execute perl, python other CGI, has user based security model, runs staight out of the box. gotta say I love it....... Regards Earl (Released under the Zope Public Liscence - bit like LGPL as far as I can tell.....but it is free as in beer if not as in speech anyway..) Cheers Earl On 03 May 2001 17:37, alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk [SMTP:alug-admin@stu.uea.ac.uk] wrote: > > Send alug mailing list submissions to > alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > alug-request(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > You can reach the person managing the list at > alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of alug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ALUG Library ... (Andrew Savory) > 2. Re: ALUG Library ... (Andrew Savory) > 3. Re: ALUG Library ... (Neill Newman) > 4. Re: ALUG Library ... (Neill Newman) > 5. Re: ALUG Library ... (Neill Newman) > 6. Re: IP Traffic monitoring (Andrew Chandler) > 7. Re: ALUG Library ... (MJ Ray) > 8. Re: self intro (MJ Ray) > 9. Re: ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 10. Re: ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 11. one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 12. Language wars // was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (MJ Ray) > 13. Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (Mark Wilkinson) > 14. Re: ALUG Library ... (MJ Ray) > 15. Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 16. Re: ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:07:59 +0100 > From: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > Reply-To: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL ;) Can I > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database system > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can do, > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. MySQL, > um, isn't. > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a nice > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the evils > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of these? > > Anyway, enough with the random thoughts. Happy to help or advise if anyone > wants. > > > Andrew. > > -- > All views are my own, who else would want them? > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:11:04 +0100 > From: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > To: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > Reply-To: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 15:24 -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > Depends what you're doing. HTML is wonderful as the final dressing before > it hits the user's web browser, but sucks for anything other than > that. Being obsessive linux hackers, I'd expect us to massively > overengineer a solution using XML and a publishing engine (AxKit if we're > using Apache/Perl, Cocoon if we're using Java?) so that we can access the > site using our browsers, phones, PDAs, sonic screwdrivers, divining > rods... > > > Andrew. > > -- > All views are my own, who else would want them? > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:18:59 +0100 > From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> > Organization: Entora Ltd > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > Andrew Savory wrote: > > > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL ;) Can I > > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database system > > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can do, > > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. MySQL, > > um, isn't. > > yep, and until recently MySQL didn't have transaction support !!! hhmm > nice and resilient ;).. > Postgress gets my vote... > > > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a nice > > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the evils > > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of these? > > Perl/DBI sounds good to me.... > although I have to admit that I like php ;)... > > Sz > > > > -- > Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:11:05 +0100 > From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> > Organization: Entora Ltd > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > CC: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > David Freeman wrote: > > > > > > > OK - it could be done as a java server process on the webserver/some > > > server somewhere, that way we could have a java client or a web > > > client...the java server could spit/recieve XML and all could be well > > > in > > > the world... > > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > > hhmmm at the point of starting a flame I'd like to say that xml is very > good at what it does, removes content from markup, html is contant and > markup munged together, not nice!! > html is ok for small/medium sites, but any decent large scale dynamic > stuff is all xml with xslt->html translators, believe me, xml is worth > the effort... > > > > > > me, sick, never (Oh, did I mention that I've done that sorta stuff > > > before, perl talking to java is "fun", nearly as fun as java talking > > > to > > > CGIs). > > > > /me = C and Java apprentice programmer and obeyer of the KISS principle > > /me = C, Java, UML, OO, C++, Perl, PHP hacker.. I was taught OO by a > Grady Booch Phd student ;) so if you need a hand with the > design/implementation then give me a shout, > (I've been programming in Java, both commercially and academically, > since 1995 ;)... > > > > > Thanks > > > > D > > > > PS one of these days I will learn a proper language AKA Lisp and write > > some decent type programs. > > aarrgghhhh no, lisp is evil ;).. > *duck* > > Sz > > > -- > Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:14:00 +0100 > From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> > Organization: Entora Ltd > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > CC: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > David Freeman wrote: > > > > > > Exactly, If we make the system well it should work on any browser, even > > IE :o) > > > make sure you run any web pages through the w3 validator > (http://validator.w3.org/), > it is very very very usefull ;) > > Sz > > > > -- > Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:37:20 +0100 > From: Andrew.Chandler(a)ft.com (Andrew Chandler) > Subject: Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > It's a pity you haven't access to the Cisco (I assme the router is Cisco?) > There's a nice command called "ip accounting". It will give you a table > of IP addresses and how much traffic they have sent. > > I occasionally use this with an Expect script to drag back a set of > network stats on a particular router. > > There are a number of non-intrusive methods too. We have some network > probes that tap into the leased line and monitor it externally. A more > expensive way of doing it though! > > Oh well just my 2 pence.... > > Andi > > > > > > > > > > "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> on 02/05/2001 17:44:09 > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) > > Subject: Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring > > > Hmm. That's where I was heading. The extract of the numbers is trivial and > would give me 99% of their traffic. > > I'll try to knock something up in Perl that whacks the data into a MySQL > database directly. Could be an interesting project. > > Cheers. > > M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raphael Mankin" <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> > To: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> > Cc: "alug" <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:26 PM > Subject: RE: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring > > > It's in the Apache access log. Everything that is sent and how big it is. > > Not perfect; it does not include the overhead of setting up connections, but > it is a start. > > > On 02-May-01 Mark Wilkinson wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > > > We are about to put a website online for an important customer but we want > > to monitor the bandwidth usage on a monthly basis and bill them > > accordingly. > > > > Has anyone any ideas on how to do IP Traffic monitoring? We don't have > > access to the stats on our primary router (basically our upstream won't > > give > > us the data for some reason) so I just wanted to put some kind of packet > > counter in.. > > > > Any ideas or package recommendations? I've looked at sourceforge but am > not > > sure of the products I'm finding there. I want a standalone product that > > doesn't look like a beast to install and dumps the data in a nice format > > for > > sticking into a database. > > > > Cheers. > > > > Mark W. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > ---------------------------------- > ... all the fallacious exactitude that > characterises a statistical table. > - Eric Partridge > E-Mail: Raphael Mankin <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> > Date: 02-May-01 > Time: 17:25:52 > ---------------------------------- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > > > > > ********************************************************************* > * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * > * http://www.ft.com * > * * > * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * > * * > * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * > * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * > * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * > * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * > * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * > * immediately then delete this E-Mail. > * * > * * > * postmaster(a)ft.com * > ********************************************************************* > > > > ********************************************************************* > * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * > * http://www.ft.com * > * * > * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * > * * > * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * > * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * > * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * > * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * > * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * > * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * > * * > * postmaster(a)ft.com * > ********************************************************************* > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > To: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 11:40:21 +0100 > > Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > > quick, > > Calling Perl nice is not something I can bring myself to do any more. > OK, it's possible to do some really well-crafted software in it, but > it's possible to create some monstrosities too and more people do the > latter. > > > [...] Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. > > That'll be me, then. With Ruby, it's not quite so critical, as you > just tweak your database object class. Even Perl's DBI isn't a > perfect solution, because the SQLs don't seem to quite be the same. > > > [...] Then there's the evils of the world such as PHP, Embperl, > > ASP.... can we steer clear of these? > > Please! While I can't call Perl nice, I won't program in PHP any more > beyond simple tasks because of the mental anguish it causes. > > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > To: Joss Winn <joss(a)josswinn.org> > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] self intro > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 11:35:00 +0100 > > Joss Winn <joss(a)josswinn.org> writes: > > > Well, before the list admin finds a new member of the list who lives > > in Japan [...] > > Oh, I don't think we'd notice another member from Japan that easily. > Tats, are you still out there? > > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:02:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> wrote: > > David Freeman wrote: > > > > OK - it could be done as a java server process on the > > webserver/some > > > > server somewhere, that way we could have a java client or a web > > > > client...the java server could spit/recieve XML and all could be > > well > > > > in > > > > the world... > > > > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > > > hhmmm at the point of starting a flame I'd like to say that xml is > > very > > good at what it does, removes content from markup, html is contant > > and > > markup munged together, not nice!! > > html is ok for small/medium sites, but any decent large scale dynamic > > stuff is all xml with xslt->html translators, believe me, xml is > > worth > > the effort... > > XML has always appeared as a very complex thing which I haven't needed > to use for my very simple web site! Can any one recommend a good primer > for XML. > > > > > > > > me, sick, never (Oh, did I mention that I've done that sorta > > stuff > > > > before, perl talking to java is "fun", nearly as fun as java > > talking > > > > to > > > > CGIs). > > > > > > /me = C and Java apprentice programmer and obeyer of the KISS > > principle > > > > /me = C, Java, UML, OO, C++, Perl, PHP hacker.. I was taught OO by a > > Grady Booch Phd student ;) so if you need a hand with the > > design/implementation then give me a shout, > > (I've been programming in Java, both commercially and academically, > > since 1995 ;)... > > /me = self tought with far to many habits > > But I've just written my first kernel MODULE!!! and it work, which was > a big surprise > > > > Thanks > > > D > > > PS one of these days I will learn a proper language AKA Lisp and > > write > > > some decent type programs. > > > > aarrgghhhh no, lisp is evil ;).. > > *duck* > > Yes, it may be evil, but the darker side is very appealing. Just like > small talk seams appeally. A OO language where everything is an object, > it just makes sense, the way the world works is to pass messages > (instructions, sentences etc...) between objects (humans, animals, > objects etc...) > > ONe language I don't want to learn is C++. > > I like the quotes on the smalltalk website > > "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have > C++ in mind." > - Alan Kay > > and my personally favourites > > "C++ : an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog" > - unknown > > "Claiming Java is easier than C++ is like saying that K2 is shorter > than Everest." > - Larry O'Brien (editor, Software Development) > > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming languages, > particully the language people first learnt was there favourite and all > others are programmed as if they were using the first language. > > Thanks > > D > > > Sz > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:04:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 15:24 -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > > > Depends what you're doing. HTML is wonderful as the final dressing > > before > > it hits the user's web browser, but sucks for anything other than > > that. Being obsessive linux hackers, I'd expect us to massively > > overengineer a solution using XML and a publishing engine (AxKit if > > we're > > using Apache/Perl, Cocoon if we're using Java?) so that we can access > > the > > site using our browsers, phones, PDAs, sonic screwdrivers, divining > > rods... > > ESR said that you can't call your self a hacker till other hackers call > you one, based on the above can I call my self a Hacker yet? > > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about content > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these evils, > doesn't CSS attempt to help? > > Thanks > > D > > > Andrew. > > > > -- > > All views are my own, who else would want them? > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:08:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> wrote: > > Andrew Savory wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > > > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL > > ;) Can I > > > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database > > system > > > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > > > > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > > > > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can > > do, > > > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > > > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. > > MySQL, > > > um, isn't. > > > > yep, and until recently MySQL didn't have transaction support !!! > > hhmm > > nice and resilient ;).. > > Postgress gets my vote... > > So we have the holywar about Which language to write it in, now we have > a second holy war over which RDBMS we use, couple this with the > XML/HTML war and wow! > > Can we get Vi vs EMacs in as well? > > > > > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is > > nice and > > > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a > > nice > > > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to > > me but > > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the > > evils > > > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of > > these? > > > > Perl/DBI sounds good to me.... > > although I have to admit that I like php ;)... > > Perl? I never quite got to grips with perl, I have tried but I just > don't understand it. What are its pros and cons? > > How about SmallTalk as the language? or maybe something even more > obscour, like ML or Prolog, will they do it? > > Thanks > > D > > > Sz > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Language wars // was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 17:19:48 +0100 > > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > XML has always appeared as a very complex thing which I haven't needed > > to use for my very simple web site! Can any one recommend a good primer > > for XML. > > Hrm, I can't remember where I learnt about it. Probably from > webreference.com or similar. It's just like HTML but with consistency > and your own tags, really. > > > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming languages, > > particully the language people first learnt was there favourite and all > > others are programmed as if they were using the first language. > > Depending on your world-view and the task at hand, I now firmly > believe that either everything is objects or everything is functions. > This is miles away from my first language (BASIC) or my second > (FORTH), but I tend to watch people and I've seen things that would > make your toes curl. I guess others on this list will have seen > worse, though. > > I don't really get into holy wars about language, though. I just try > to avoid engaging with ones I dislike unless absolutely necessary. I > have that luxury at the moment. > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > Reply-To: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> > From: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> > To: <David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com>, <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:27:31 +0100 > charset="iso-8859-1" > > I think it best to program it in raw assembler and store the data on a 1.44 > floppy in EBCDIC. > > FWIW. > > Mark W. > > :-D > > PS. As per my original email on this. Why do people want to re-invent the > wheel? There's a package on freshmeat that could be taken, customised and > whacked on a linux box in say... a couple of hours. :-O Am I missing > something here? Is the objective a programming exercise or to get a library > system running? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Freeman" <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > To: <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 5:08 PM > Subject: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > > > --- Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> wrote: > > Andrew Savory wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > > > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL > > ;) Can I > > > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database > > system > > > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > > > > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > > > > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can > > do, > > > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > > > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. > > MySQL, > > > um, isn't. > > > > yep, and until recently MySQL didn't have transaction support !!! > > hhmm > > nice and resilient ;).. > > Postgress gets my vote... > > So we have the holywar about Which language to write it in, now we have > a second holy war over which RDBMS we use, couple this with the > XML/HTML war and wow! > > Can we get Vi vs EMacs in as well? > > > > > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is > > nice and > > > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a > > nice > > > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to > > me but > > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the > > evils > > > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of > > these? > > > > Perl/DBI sounds good to me.... > > although I have to admit that I like php ;)... > > Perl? I never quite got to grips with perl, I have tried but I just > don't understand it. What are its pros and cons? > > How about SmallTalk as the language? or maybe something even more > obscour, like ML or Prolog, will they do it? > > Thanks > > D > > > Sz > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 17:30:02 +0100 > > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about content > > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these evils, > > doesn't CSS attempt to help? > > Oh, many of us will have a go at PHP for that. CSS doesn't really > help much, as you still have most of your program code stuffed in a > servable document rather than kept right away from your markup. There > are ways to remedy it a little, but it's better not to have the > problem there in the first place, eh? > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:34:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Mark Wilkinson <mark(a)wiggis.com> wrote: > > I think it best to program it in raw assembler and store the data on > > a 1.44 > > floppy in EBCDIC. > > I take it that in true style this will be 68000 series assembler :o) > > /me has learnt z80 assembler and will learn PIC assembler. > > > FWIW. > > > > Mark W. > > > > :-D > > > > PS. As per my original email on this. Why do people want to re-invent > > the > > wheel? There's a package on freshmeat that could be taken, customised > > and > > whacked on a linux box in say... a couple of hours. :-O Am I missing > > something here? Is the objective a programming exercise or to get a > > library > > system running? > > Shoot this man for being boring :o) you should know all projects start > as a debate about features, language and then decide if something else > does the job. > > Thanks > > D > > <snip> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:35:47 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > > > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about > > content > > > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these > > evils, > > > doesn't CSS attempt to help? > > > > Oh, many of us will have a go at PHP for that. CSS doesn't really > > help much, as you still have most of your program code stuffed in a > > servable document rather than kept right away from your markup. > > There > > are ways to remedy it a little, but it's better not to have the > > problem there in the first place, eh? > > -- > > MJR > > OK then how about ASP? :o) > > </fx action="lights blue touch paper and retires to safe distance"> > > Thanks > > D > > PS Mark does the above Parse ok? > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > alug mailing list > alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > > > End of alug Digest

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We missed our 2nd birthday :-(
by Adam Bower 04 May '01

04 May '01

I was just perusing the site and noticed that we missed the aniversary of our first meet! http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/meetings/year1/meeting1.html Adam

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ALUG Library again again.
by brodders＠cwcom.net 04 May '01

04 May '01

:) LOL many nice threads. Hm - So Zeus not open source. Dave - you seem to have something in mind from (fm) - got a specific name / link? Found many hits for "library" when last looked. How do I post onto the ALUG web server? Not a student at UEA. Is the service open to all? Can't we use it for.. ALUGL! java ain't that bad; we could conect it to a flat file kept on the server's floppy. Someone must have ported QBASIC by now; who needs an RDBMS? If not, we could just have a stick and carve notches onto it. But who's going to hold onto the stick? What if they break it or throw it for their dog? Need a backup then. A bundle of sticks - and it's !SOLVED! Thanks Andrew for the link to postgres info- Steve PS per'aps I should just give the MySQL book back & creep away quietly...

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 04 May '01

04 May '01

Only if it's your coding style *grin* <religious war> GNU indent is the best! </> Bing Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 04/05/2001 14:10:07 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... Andrew Chandler wrote: > > I think Adrian was saying it should be written in vi... err.. emacs rather > than Lyx! the resulting postscript is the same, no matter how it is written.. would you complain about somebody's C coding style when the resulting executable is the same ? Sz - K&R brackets are the only way to go ;) -- Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 04 May '01

04 May '01

'Word produces HTML", but that's no excuse!! You tell him Adrian! Bing Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 04/05/2001 11:10:47 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... "Adrian F. Clark" wrote: > > > Anyway, Neill is using lyx, not pukka LaTeX -- urghhhh! ;p .. lyx produces nice latex ;) > > ..Adrian (Neill's PhD supervisor and a LaTeX hacker ;-) LaTeX guru more like ;).. Sz -- Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

2 1

Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > [...] What I have more trouble understanding is how XML > differs from SGML. XML is SGML-- rather than HTML++. It's just a bit simplified and easier to parse, I believe. The stylesheeting for XML (XSLT) is also supposedly easier to implement than for SGML (DSSSL), but that seems to be a matter of infrequent argument, as XSLT is Java-orientated while DSSSL is lisp-family-focused. -- MJR

4 5

Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about content > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these evils, > doesn't CSS attempt to help? Oh, many of us will have a go at PHP for that. CSS doesn't really help much, as you still have most of your program code stuffed in a servable document rather than kept right away from your markup. There are ways to remedy it a little, but it's better not to have the problem there in the first place, eh? -- MJR

5 4

Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

"Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> writes: > I think it best to program it in raw assembler and store the data on a 1.44 > floppy in EBCDIC. I prefer to put the data there by inductions from an unshielded spark plug. How about you? [...] > whacked on a linux box in say... a couple of hours. :-O Am I missing > something here? Is the objective a programming exercise or to get a library > system running? I'm quite happy to use one of the other systems, but it's not my decision. The debate about tools etc is generally interesting to people working or wanting to work with the web, I think. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Internet ready computer systems GBP195
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

User banned from this list. Complaints filed with ukonline, ic24 and the Metropolitan Police. Fun. Please no-one bother with his advert, as it's a fairly bad price for the equipment and he clearly has no clue or ethics, posting here. -- MJR

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ALUG Library ...
by brodders＠cwcom.net 04 May '01

04 May '01

HALLO THE GROUP Ahem. Hi all.. After discovering the ALUG at the UEA last Sunday - I've been volunteered into getting something going for the O'Reilly books ALUG (via David) now hold. I wanted to borrow the book on MySQL and mSQL - so :) I have been asked to write a system. Oh No! Who me? Me Steve. Me much too much to do (tax, company returns, commuting, 2 houses to buy, holiday someday) but then I want to explore MySQL. Two aspects - 1. The System We Want We've some books (6) a) do we want more? How will be get them? b) do we want to loan other resources (CD's, hardware etc)? c) do we want to loan private as well as ALUG stuff? (perhaps an option) d) do we want a central repository or do things wander around? e) Factor X - the unspoken expectation coming to haunt me later. All the above shape how the database will be designed, data lifecycles & that sort of stuff. Ideas Appreciated, especially if they reduce work. [Only? :) ] 2. Practicalities a) Don't want to put effort into something not used... so start small. b) IF it's to be web based, we'll need a host service supporting MySQL - do we have this?? c) Me No Web Wizard ! d) IF not web based - um, how's it going to work?? e) it's getting late & I've not had my UT fix yet. Anyone want to give a hand / interested in getting something going? Bye! Steve PS will post some more thoughts re design & features a bit later.

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Internet ready computer systems GBP195
by tony.liquids＠ukonline.co.uk 03 May '01

03 May '01

Branded PENTIUM Computer systems with Internet , only �195 Hi You don't need an expensive new computer to type letters, look after household finances, enjoy the Internet, keep a database or familiarise the family with computers. We are disposing of 'second user' branded computers, which were once amongst the best you could buy. Now one can be yours for only �195 complete and there is no VAT to be added. The Desktop computers have Windows 95 and Word Processing, Database, and Spreadsheet loaded and running. For a small extra you can 'Surf' the Internet or send E-mails. Why spend �1000 or more on the latest computer with tricky gizmos that you won't use and will require a "rocket scientist" to get going ? I trust the following will answer your questions in time for you to quickly reserve a 'second user' branded computer whilst we still have some left..... * Branded Pentium 75 Computer (16 RAM, Min 360Mb Hard Drive) * Colour Monitor (14" Super VGA) * Keyboard and Mouse (new) * Windows 95 (loaded and running with online instructions and help) * Microsoft Works (Word Processor, Spreadsheet, Database all loaded and Running) Only 195 Pounds Door to door delivery (FREE if you E.mail your order and pay by cheque) Add �24.50 You can choose any of these optional extras...... * Freeserve Internet Software and new super fast 56K modem installed and ready to send e-mails and surf the Internet FREE * CD ROM (Min 44 SPEED, new) Add �48.00 * Colour Printer (new, including cartridge and cables) Add �79.00 Your computer will arrive in just 14 to 21 days. Your computer will include all cables, guidance notes and a 30 day return to base guarantee which ensures the above applications. You will also receive two independent help lines. You can simply plug in your computer and start using it. To reserve your own Computer you can E.mail us now on tony.computers(a)ic24.net If you E.mail your reservation and pay by cheque (payable to ViSa) you will qualify for FREE delivery normally �24.50. Alternatively, we accept most major credit cards, and if you choose, we won't debit your card until after your computer arrives. Please E.mail your order/reservation now tony.computers(a)ic24.net Regards David Liquidated Computers P.S. Remember, e.mail your order/reservation and receive FREE door to door delivery worth �24.50 E.Mail tony.computers(a)ic24.net Fax (01737) 823726 or (01293) 619035 Suite 112, 235 Earls Court Road, London, SW5 9FE We don't sell Laptop Computers .Your fax number can be suppressed in writing. Terms and Conditions apply.

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Language wars // was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > XML has always appeared as a very complex thing which I haven't needed > to use for my very simple web site! Can any one recommend a good primer > for XML. Hrm, I can't remember where I learnt about it. Probably from webreference.com or similar. It's just like HTML but with consistency and your own tags, really. > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming languages, > particully the language people first learnt was there favourite and all > others are programmed as if they were using the first language. Depending on your world-view and the task at hand, I now firmly believe that either everything is objects or everything is functions. This is miles away from my first language (BASIC) or my second (FORTH), but I tend to watch people and I've seen things that would make your toes curl. I guess others on this list will have seen worse, though. I don't really get into holy wars about language, though. I just try to avoid engaging with ones I dislike unless absolutely necessary. I have that luxury at the moment. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] self intro
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

Joss Winn <joss(a)josswinn.org> writes: > Well, before the list admin finds a new member of the list who lives > in Japan [...] Oh, I don't think we'd notice another member from Japan that easily. Tats, are you still out there? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > quick, Calling Perl nice is not something I can bring myself to do any more. OK, it's possible to do some really well-crafted software in it, but it's possible to create some monstrosities too and more people do the latter. > [...] Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. That'll be me, then. With Ruby, it's not quite so critical, as you just tweak your database object class. Even Perl's DBI isn't a perfect solution, because the SQLs don't seem to quite be the same. > [...] Then there's the evils of the world such as PHP, Embperl, > ASP.... can we steer clear of these? Please! While I can't call Perl nice, I won't program in PHP any more beyond simple tasks because of the mental anguish it causes. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 03 May '01

03 May '01

It's a pity you haven't access to the Cisco (I assme the router is Cisco?) There's a nice command called "ip accounting". It will give you a table of IP addresses and how much traffic they have sent. I occasionally use this with an Expect script to drag back a set of network stats on a particular router. There are a number of non-intrusive methods too. We have some network probes that tap into the leased line and monitor it externally. A more expensive way of doing it though! Oh well just my 2 pence.... Andi "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> on 02/05/2001 17:44:09 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring Hmm. That's where I was heading. The extract of the numbers is trivial and would give me 99% of their traffic. I'll try to knock something up in Perl that whacks the data into a MySQL database directly. Could be an interesting project. Cheers. M. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raphael Mankin" <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> To: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> Cc: "alug" <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:26 PM Subject: RE: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring It's in the Apache access log. Everything that is sent and how big it is. Not perfect; it does not include the overhead of setting up connections, but it is a start. On 02-May-01 Mark Wilkinson wrote: > Hi everyone. > > We are about to put a website online for an important customer but we want > to monitor the bandwidth usage on a monthly basis and bill them > accordingly. > > Has anyone any ideas on how to do IP Traffic monitoring? We don't have > access to the stats on our primary router (basically our upstream won't > give > us the data for some reason) so I just wanted to put some kind of packet > counter in.. > > Any ideas or package recommendations? I've looked at sourceforge but am not > sure of the products I'm finding there. I want a standalone product that > doesn't look like a beast to install and dumps the data in a nice format > for > sticking into a database. > > Cheers. > > Mark W. > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ---------------------------------- ... all the fallacious exactitude that characterises a statistical table. - Eric Partridge E-Mail: Raphael Mankin <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> Date: 02-May-01 Time: 17:25:52 ---------------------------------- _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by David Freeman 03 May '01

03 May '01

--- Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 03:02:07PM -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > --- brodders(a)cwcom.net wrote: > > > d) IF not web based - um, how's it going to work?? > > The big advantage of a web system is that is doesn't require any > additional software to be installed on the clients - prospective > clients should already have a web browser (and with care we can work > with any reasonable one) and if not we still don't have to write it - > it's just a case of installing it. Exactly, If we make the system well it should work on any browser, even IE :o) > The other options are: > > 1. Use the database's client server feature. The server machine just > runs a database with no other specialised software and a small > client is written using the revalent database library which then > communicates over a TCP connection to the database server. > > I know MySQL has this feature - it can be used for remote query > sessions too. PostgreSQL has it too. Down side - requires yet another app to be installed. > 2. Another protocol or RPC mechanism where a client program talks to > a > dedicated server process on the server machine which in turn > communicates with the database. > > This last approach can be flexible and can have low bandwidth > requirements but it would be the most work of any of them. <fx action=something going over my head> RPC sounds difficult. I think web based will be best. > > Badly? We want solutions not problems, ne ideas? > > Oh dear! This kind of speak is the worst kind of management clich�. Sorry, forgot the :o) . Also please don't accuse me of being a manager, I still have some (if limited) technically abilities :o) > > We also need to consider who has access to change/add things? > > Oh, so you probably want to define a set of priveleges and add a > "roles" table. How you model the next bit is open to debate. You > could have a many-to-one relationship between users and roles (many > users belong to one role, one role only per user) in which case some > roles have to include all the privileges of lesser roles. The other > way is to have a many-many between users and roles (thus a link > table). You could have a separate privileges table (almost a link > table) which lists role/priv pairs or you could make the privs > columns > of the roles table. We basically have two levels, people browsing for available books, and a librarian to add things. also I thought of another table reservation(member no., resource number, received) member no. and resource number = composite key = integers recieved = boolean. Thanks D > Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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self intro
by Joss Winn 03 May '01

03 May '01

Well, before the list admin finds a new member of the list who lives in Japan and wonders what the hell is going on, I think I'd better introduce myself.... hello, my name is Joss. I'm from the UK (lincoln actually) but have lived in Japan for the last two and a half years. I joined this list because, well, I like Linux and will be doing an MA in Film Archiving at UEA from Sept. I have no background in computing and no plans to make a career out of it, but am personally interested in Open Source/FSF/GNU Linux. I am also interested in using Unix/Linux within the film preservation and archiving profession. It's dominated by SGI right now, but I understand that Linux is finding it's way into the business too. I use SUSE Linux 7.1 on a Macintosh and it's very sweet. If anyone has any questions specifcally regarding Linux on PPC, then I may be able to help. I've been pretty involved in it now for almost a year. Still a newbie but I can maintain my own box, build a kernel and tweak a XFConfig file! and am starting to be able to give advice to others, so I must be learning something. ;-) Anyway, enough for now. Look forward to meeting you in September. cheers Joss -- http://www.josswinn.org

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > <fx action=eureka> Parse error... no ""s and no / to denote an empty tag... > How about a java program written to utilise the Java Database > connectivity (JDBC) to get the data from mysql. If using Java 1.2 with Never mind that Java is non-free. > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. XML is a good data interchange format. So are S-expressions. HTML is hopeless, as most of the specifications are entertainingly vague. > PS one of these days I will learn a proper language AKA Lisp and write > some decent type programs. Java's quite nice, but now take those principles to Ruby and do some serious damage to the Universe. http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ -- MJR

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Linuxday April 29th
by terryfilby 02 May '01

02 May '01

Looking forward to coming to UEA again next Sunday, presume we can park near the venue to download computer, monitor etc and then, probably, go back to the car park. Hope to be there before or near 2 pm. Thanks Terry

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Re: [Alug] Linux Expo 2001
by MJ Ray 01 May '01

01 May '01

Earl Brannigan <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> writes: > www.linuxexpo.co.uk for the free registration. The only argument against registering is the amount of spam you get. Use email addresses which are about to die, etc. -- MJR

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Samba again --smbwrapper wont compile
by David Freeman 01 May '01

01 May '01

when I do #./configure --with-smbwrapper #make I get the following error Compiling smbwrapper/smbw.c with -fpic smbwrapper/smbw.c:1429: warning: `struct stat64' declared inside parameter list smbwrapper/smbw.c:1429: warning: its scope is only this definition or declaration, which is probably not what you want. smbwrapper/smbw.c: In function `stat64_convert': smbwrapper/smbw.c:1431: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1432: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1433: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1434: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1435: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1436: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1437: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1438: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1439: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1440: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1441: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1442: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1443: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c: At top level: smbwrapper/smbw.c:1448: warning: `struct dirent64' declared inside parameter list smbwrapper/smbw.c: In function `dirent64_convert': smbwrapper/smbw.c:1450: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1451: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1452: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type smbwrapper/smbw.c:1453: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type make: *** [smbwrapper/smbw.po] Error 1 Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Linux Expo 2001
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 01 May '01

01 May '01

Pepsi vouchers being slightly cheaper than Beer vouchers! Although you do get less in a can! Bing Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 01/05/2001 15:21:18 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] Linux Expo 2001 Adam Bower wrote: > > > Well, last year I had to pay (well the company did) so if you want to be > sure of not handing over beer vouchers I would reccomend registering. sound advice, although I don't drink, so it would have to be Pepsi vouchers ;).. Sz > > Adam -- Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] Linux Expo 2001
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 01 May '01

01 May '01

>www.linuxexpo.co.uk for the free registration. Earl, do you mind me asking why one would register? (Sorry, one of my questions to which the answer usually makes me blush at my own folly but I can't help but ask anyway)

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File sharing, one day
by David Freeman 01 May '01

01 May '01

Any one any idea why I can't bind to a port under samba? I am doing smbd -D as the command and it says it can't bind to port 139? ne Ideas? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Linux Expo 2001
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 01 May '01

01 May '01

I think it depends who you are and if you volunteer to pay. I've often seen people with their chequebooks handing over money at these shows... ...the best trick is to say "Well I registered, but never received my tickets" to which they appologise and give you some tickets. It certainly worked for me on one or two occasions. In any case it only takes 2 minutes to register! Andi Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 01/05/2001 13:59:58 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] Linux Expo 2001 Adam Bower wrote: > > > Because they charge about ten quid if you turn up at the door without > pre-booking. (or at least they did last year) really ?? I've been going to network/which computer show for the last 10 years or so, they say every time "costs X if not pre booked". When I've turned up they hand out free tickets on the door... I've never been to a show where I have had to pay.. then again I've never been to linuxExpo so I can't vouch for that... Sz -- Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

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Linux Security Job
by Gavin Smith 01 May '01

01 May '01

I have a client who is looking to build a security team (to be based in ipswich) with experience in the following areas: Operating system hardening esp unix/linux/freebsd Vulnerability testing, penetration testing SSL Setting up networks & environments Designing and Implementing Information Security Policy Programming skills - Java, C, C++ If you would be interested in further details (or are just curious) then please do not hesitate to contact me. Regards Gavin Smith Best International email: gsmith(a)best-international.com tel: 0121 335 9000 fax: 0121 335 9090 **************************************************************************************** Official winners of the UK IT Recruitment Service of the Year Computing Awards for Excellence 2000 Best International Group Plc Registered in England No. 3246014 London (Head Office) +44 (0)20 7300 9000 Bristol +44 (0)117 945 9000 Birmingham +44 (0)121 335 9000 Manchester +44 (0)161 942 9000 Scotland +44 (0)131 524 9000 This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any representations (contractual or otherwise), views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Best International Group, or any of its group companies. If you are not the intended recipient be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ****************************************************************************************

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