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Ubuntu CDs
by Dave Briggs 05 Dec '05

05 Dec '05

Hi chaps I had a job lot of Ubuntu 5.10 CDs through the post this weekend. The usual deal, a live CD and an install one. I have them for 'normal' PC, 64-bit and Mac. If anyone would like one (or more!) just send me an email off list with your address. Cheers -- Dave Briggs linux(a)davebriggs.net | http://davebriggs.net | http://davebriggs.net/sclug

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Another newbie joins
by Phil Wade 05 Dec '05

05 Dec '05

Hi all, I've been asked to "send a short description of why you're interested in Linux to the mailing list" - so here it is. I've been into computers since 1982 (ZX Spectrum - Z80) and am now self-employed helping people with their Windoze machines. I like the politics of open-source software and I thought I'd better learn Linux before I die. I'm very, very old (58). Also, the Reindeer is a decent pub - do they still brew their own beer? -- Phil Wade Norwich

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 05 Dec '05

05 Dec '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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FREE
by Bob Dove 04 Dec '05

04 Dec '05

Hi Peter and other members. I know what FREE means! I'm old enough to be ignored rather than told to go back to school (unless it is the U.S College of Irony)! Yes, I'm sure that folks do make a living out of 'Open Source' software as equally other use 'doze to make a living, but what has that to do with a 'FREE' software distribution on a magazine cover. Not only that I also know that folk down load FREE distros from the web and offer them for sale in things like micro mart. I believe I have read notices to the effect that the software is FREE - that is 'no cost' to the end user but the person downloading and offering it to other end user may charge for media used, post and pack &c. Please let me know if I have mis-understood all this 'free' stuff? "Fully paid up" as I said was an indication that I have a fully working installation of Linux and I want to learn how to make it as useful to me as 'doze. I haven't seen any postings on this ALUG that any of the members actually want dosh in exchange for their wisdom (not that I understand much of it as yet), though I'm sure not many would refuse a beer if offered in a certain Norwich hostelry! There doesn't seem to be any shortage of irony either! And no doubt in due course I'll be an adept command line typer! But thanks for the tip about mounting. I did discover that when media was in the drives (the DVD drives anyway) they were mounted. Now I need you get my USB drives recognised. Cheers, BD.

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Re: Suse 10.0 (Bob Dove)
by Peter 03 Dec '05

03 Dec '05

We've been using Suse 9.2 and 9.3 for the last year or so, and also Mandriva - 10.2, 2005 and now 2006. I do find Suse much less usable and much flakier. We are both using Gnome, so the differences are very very clear. The detection of usb peripherals isn't reliable. On Mandriva, you plug in and there they are on the desktop. On Suse, they may or may not be depending on how long you wait and what they are. My flash card reader mostly works, depending on what is in it. My USB pen drive never. On Mandriva, I have never had a partition fail to mount at startup. On Suse (9.2) one partition, a whole disk actually, simply vanished for no apparent reason. Upgraded to 9.3 and back it came. On Mandriva, the interface in either Gnome or KDE seems reasonably laid out. The default version of KDE on all of the Suses seems to have been designed by someone trying to make it look unusable. Then there is package installation. Urpmi really works quite well. YaST has you making pencil notes of whatever else you need to get as a dependency, then its dependencies, and I have actually found myself going around in circles - A requires B which requires A. My impression is that Suse comes with a less complete set of the libraries you need for adding more packages. Yes, you can install apt-rpm and edit the repositories. On Mandriva you don't really need to. Then there are the weirdnesses. Install Sylpheed, get through the dependencies (apt-rpm is essential if you are not to be driven mad by this) and the interface is simply weird - proliferation of folders as a default for instance, terrible fonts, compared to a nice clean look on Mandriva. The file manager - I cannot for the life of me figure out why sometimes when you are looking at a folder of photos, you seem to open in EOG and at other times in some kind of viewer with editing capabilities. And why has the zooming scroll wheel suddenly stopped working? Bottom line: your failing installation is a Message from Above. Someone is saying to you, You Do Not Want This Installation. Get Mandriva 2006 instead! It should have been right there on the stand. If they are out now, I'll copy one for you if you like. If you download the free CDs, you need to use the Mandriva admin centre and then add the official and contribution repositories, but it will lead you through that. You can also install over the net using one of the boot disks. I've done both, on different machines, and found either completely painless. Good luck Peter

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Re: Another newbie joins
by Phil Wade 03 Dec '05

03 Dec '05

> Not quite as old as I am, I beat you by a year, and my computing career > started long before yours - I've earned my keep by programming since > around 1970. Oh dear, does that mean I've let in a goal or something? Do we get to play again? Anyway, I'll bet my dad can beat your dad... :) -- Phil Wade

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Rant from Japan: Linux must give cost-effective performance in business world, surely?
by Tatsuhiko Maegawa 03 Dec '05

03 Dec '05

Rant from Japan My heartfelt thanks first goes to Mark Rey, Paul Russell and Andrew Savory there in Norwich. These guys invited me Linux world, when I was a politics student and did not know much about computing world. Without them, I probably have not arrived to the point where I stand now. Six years is long, and I miss them very much. Now that I live back in Japan for in sixth years period, I felt it is good time to reconsider the use of Linux in business world. Over the time I had business with managers and well wishers who want to have system. Many had no idea of computing world like what I used to. All had same thoughts - fast application development with cheap expenses. All agrees that their imaginary system will be beneficial to everyone. No one knows how to use that system - until it gets there. System being made and time elapsed, you talk to the exact same people, and now they are asking to retrieve informations that have not been asked before. Cost adds up, data structures becoming to look complicated, firely arguments opes, and the end seems imminent. But every single person all agree there must be Microsoft Windows. They all believe Bill Gates provide proper system with fault-torelance guaranteed. All simple, all easy, they say. Not quite, I must admit. Nowadays system is made of OS and open-source programming language. Microsoft .Net (VB/C++/MS Java) is the exception of the talk. MacOSX, Linux, NetBSD will be amongst the choice. Linux and RDBMS is having better relations. MySQL and PostgreSQL are certainly the choice. Even Oracle supports it, providing developer chooses right Linux OS. Apart from choosing Oracle and Linux for RDBMS management, first installation and system management should ended up cheaper. FTP version of Linux still allows essentials that require to run. And if I consider the use of softwares to add up on top of OS fee, it could go up higher. Next, key Criteria of cost. These are backup and restoration, execution, and everyday management. Everyday management consists of log checking, patches, and memory usage. Execution is really the speed of application. Backup and restoration can be the most annoying factor of cost, but let me assume of Disk to Disk to Tape backup solution for now. Like the others I agree GUI gives faster setups and visual confirmation for all. BUT when it comes to automation, the story changes slightly. The answer, in my opinion, is that it won't change much. Speed, execution, and all other issues do not change much. Apart from my home servers, why do I still waive the use of Linux at business? Simply there is not much people who have much skills with Linux, and do not know how to use much of it. Adopting Linux requires some skills to teach and acquire. That said ... really? I saw people taking equal amount of time to understand how Windows works before. So why I still be afraid of using Linux? There seems not much answer against the question. Unfortunately I do not have opportunity to run business with Linux and manage with Linux yet. Needs for Linux was way too low six years ago, but now it seems growing. Look at E*Trade, they run application with Linux. Unless customer wish some fancy features of .NET (such as ClickOnce), I think Linux server system should break the cost barrier and usablity a lot more easier than I first expected of. Tatsuhiko Maegawa tatsuhiko(a)jazzman.jp http://blog.jazzman.jp == This is private mail ==

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Mounting drive
by Bob Dove 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

Evening all, As a now fully paid up member of the Linux community, my first query is: In Suse 10.0, in media, both my DVD drives appear. One is a DVD ROM, the other a DVD RW. Once, and once only despite it being the drive the system was installed from, the DVD RW won't mount! Now I have discovered Yast which in hardware/CD shows the two drives - twice. Like DVD RW, DVD ROM, DVD ROM, DVD RW. When Yast/CD is opened, neither have mount points. Asking Yast to mount them is done, the message says changes made so I finish. I close Yast, go back to media and only one drive - the DVD ROM - is mounted. Further, my external USB drive is 'locked' if it show which mostly it doesn't. Any suggestions? There also seems to be a number of apps missing; Krita and KOffice for instance. Cheers, BD.

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Suse 10.0
by Bob Dove 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

Hi folks, Visited WH last eve, found a couple (well three actually) mags with new Linux distros on the cover. Suse 10.0 and Ubunto 5.10. I bought Linux mag with Suse 10.0 which as I write is half way through a 2 hour 2.5 gB installation. Cover price for Suse £5.99 on DVD, for Ubunto (on 4 cds) £9.99. Did I hear some-one complaining about 'doze bloat? Well, again as I write (her indoors keeps finding jobs for me to do) the installation froze with just 4 mins to go and nothing but nothing would start the machine up again apart from pulling the plug and restarting. 1: "Do you want to install?" 2; "Do you want to update?" Choosing update, the usual questions come up on screen and after a few minutes blank screen and then a red DOS like error message saying errors encountered and back to boot up screen!! I'll report and undoubtedly ask silly questions in due course! Is that another one bites the dust? Cheers, BD.

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Alternatives to TWiki for single user
by Chris Green 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

I have installed TWiki on my Linux box and i works well and has got me writing stuff on the web that I'd otherwise not have done. However I suspect that for quite a lot of what I am doing I am going to be the only user so all the 'co-operative' abilities of TWiki are wasted. What I find really useful are the simple ways to enter information into web pages and the simplicity of creating links within the Wiki. Are there any alternatives out there that would be more suited to a single user developing [mostly text] web pages with lots of cross links? I'd like something that can be used remotely via the web but management etc. can be local (even command line). -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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Open office peculiarity
by Stuart Bailey 01 Dec '05

01 Dec '05

I have oo 2 (as shipped with SuSE 10) installed on my AMD 64 box (also SuSE 10). I keep my important files on a server, that is mounted using NFS. However, OO crashes whenever I try to access these files. If I copy the files to my local hard disk, they work fine. OO is the only app that seems to have a problem - I can access files for attachment in KMail, accounting files in GnuCash and text files in Kate, vi etc. Has anyone else come across this problem? Many thanks, Stuart. -- --------------------------------------- Stuart Bailey BSc (hons) CEng CITP MBCS LinuSoft (Proprietor) Linux Specialist (01953) 601294 (07778) 383739 http://www.linusoft.co.uk ----------------------------------------

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O/S et al.
by Bob Dove 30 Nov '05

30 Nov '05

Hi Folks, I'm glad some of you are as old as me (if not even older)! My first encounter with a 'pooter was at Dixons (for whom I worked at the time) when a Hungarian whiz kid installed the second photo-business 'pooter in the UK - he had already installed the first in Kodak. Dixons 'pooter was intended to reduce overheads by loosing a lot of stock control staff and reduce the usage of trees. (Stanley Kalms was very young, knew every member of his staff by their Christian names and I've a feeling he was a socialist.) Well, as we all now know, 'pooters don't make work forces smaller or save trees - far from it. However, this 'pooter took up the whole of one floor of Dixon House, comprised of floor to ceiling cabinets with tape drives, was in a dust free environment on a concrete floor floating on a rubber layer (Metallastic?) and was tended by a team of white coated, hatted and slippered persons of greater number than the stock control team! However, this 'pooter could do the weeks business in about an hour and was therefore largely unemployed whereas the white coats had to be kept busy - so young Kalms rented out time on his new toy! Many many years later, a very specialist pro photo dealer ran their whole business on a PCW - which encouraged me to buy one for myself - PCW 8256 with green screen. Now of course the PCW was not a 'real' 'pooter, just an electronic typewriter where you could see your mistakes on screen before committing to paper. So, command line operation in CP/M - easy!!! However, the PCW run company was a competitor and the company that I worked for decided they (or at least the 'financial director') would emulate Dixons and install a mainframe machine - some Swedish company who also make cars and flying machines. This was like the Dixons machine intended for stock control and POS and was linked by landline to Kodak who was a major supplier so they could automatically top our stocks up. Naturally, this was expensive, and didn't reduce our overheads. What it did was to allow 14 digit product codes - and yes, 14 digit codes were used. As most brilliant sales persons are like doctors and can't write, they just couldn't cope with 'one roll of Kodachrome part #12354368700912 £5.98.' Prior to POS, £5.98 would have been rung up in the till, with POS, an invoice had to be written. The invoice set of five copies cost about £1.20 per set. A team had to be employed to check all sales invoices to correct product codes and descriptions and our 'human resources department' had to warn and eventually rid us of dyslexic sales persons. The said HRD discovered they could employ two young diploma'd persons for the same salary as one high flying sales bod and we were soon populated with diploma'd know nothings and without a quality sales force... Needless to say said company no longer exists! However, the local library who then conducted all ins and outs on an Acorn still is. My PCW was up graded (by myself) to 512 - that's 512 kB of RAM. (I know machines prior to the PCW ran three apps on 64 Kb), from a single drive to a twin drive, eventually one 3 in and one of those new 720 kB 3.5 in things and lots of 'dongles' for mouse, scanner &c. Eventually, the Amstrad PC 512C replaced the PCW and this was initially a single drive 5.25 floppy drive machine running Locoscript Pro in a form of DOS which was also fitted with a 3.5 in floppy as drive B. Eventually, a 20 mB 'hard card' drive was fitted - so much power, so much space! What's the minimum space required today? Linux SuSe seems on a 'simple' installation to require close on 1 Gb of HDD space. I don't know what the minimum amount of RAM required is but it runs in 512 mB. The PC 512 still resides in my garage - must get it out and fire it up and see what happens! It was replaced by 386, 486, Pentiums et al, currently AMDs. Incidentally, I have a large quantity of 5.25 floppies to dispose of! And I still have Locoscript Pro on my desktop! Now, is that progress? Cheers, BD.

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[ALUG] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47#
by Chris Green 29 Nov '05

29 Nov '05

On Tue, Nov 29, 2005 at 09:26:15AM -0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > > > > > > Do you know what a "sub-menu" is ? > > > Do you know how to organize information hierarchically ? > > > > > It's not for me to organise it surely. > > Who else do you expect to do it for you ? You don't seem to like the > default organization provided in your distro, but rather than do something > about it to customize your desk top you choose to bitch about it to the > list. > I don't want anyone to do it for me, I was just saying that menus aren't necessarily the answer. > > If I know the commands I can > > just as easily (and more quickly) type them in at the command line. > > OR you could learn how to customize menus/desktops and make it a "one click" > operation. > For commands that are very infrequently used (but vital) this is overkill to my mind. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47#
by Chris Green 29 Nov '05

29 Nov '05

On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 02:05:35PM -0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > > I'm now confused about what point you are trying to make. > > > > > I was simply saying that a menu with twenty or thirty entries is fine, > > and useful, but that one with hundreds of entries isn't useful. > > Do you know what a "sub-menu" is ? > Do you know how to organize information hierarchically ? > It's not for me to organise it surely. If I know the commands I can just as easily (and more quickly) type them in at the command line. > > But you don't need a menu entry for every possible command line you may ever > use. ... but where we came in was - 'how do you find that command you don't know about'. I am suggesting that menus don't really help as they (like icons) are pre-configured and can't cover all the possible commands (not command lines, I mean just the names of the utilities) that are available. What I do is to use 'man -k' when I can't remember what the command to do something is. It's *very* rarely that I will find what I want by searching through menus and just about never by using icons. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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Gooies an all...
by Bob Dove 29 Nov '05

29 Nov '05

Hi Guys, 1. Summary: GUIs are good if you want them, the command line is better if you know what you are doing. 2. Icons on the screen? Nah, folders with code names! (?) 3. 'Blind' touch typing a command line - or equally blind movement of a mouse cursor? (My problem is that my keyboard is dyslexic and I don't think you can run a spell check on a command line). Well that's how things should be. Consumer choice? Tory Blair seems to be somewhat chummy with BG (who to be fair is distributing some of his absolutely unspendable wealth on good works as opposed to poncing (am I allowed to say that?) holiday accommodation from people (who may or may not need favours or perhaps a title) in exchange for a contribution to 'charity.' Prudence and Charity seem to do well with our chums in 10 & 11. I'm a bit worried however about our nuclear submarines running on 'doze! What I think has to be taken into consideration is that when Joe Bloggs goes into his local 'puter shop on his first buy, inevitably he'll go away with the box with the spec that just covers what he said he wanted to do when he went into said shop (it's for Joe junior to do his homework) - which probably isn't what he really really wanted to do which is run Tomb Raider. But he will almost surely have a box with 'doze pre-loaded. And when he loads the software (apps) of his choice it will barely run - but in happy pointy-clicky ignorance he'll be happy 'til his HDD is absolutely full of 'recyclables' and 'temporary' internet files. Now I know you guys are different and if you are running hardware stores you'll possibly be loading Linux! I'm sure on an equal footing, a good sales person could train Joe to operate either 'doze or 'ux, but there isn't an equal footing or a level playing field. There's a dealer margin on 'doze - if it pre-installed, it still ain't free! I don't know if you guys do any test shopping? I used to wok for a retail chain and often would go into competitors shops to see if they were better salesmen than me and my crew. I still go into PC World and ask questions - which still bring uninformed answers. 'You don't need to know that - just point and click! Linux? What's that? We supply XP Home. We don't sell Macintosh!' However, I have seen boxed Linux in one stationary store - horrendous price. Well, 'it's complicated and the instruction manual is expensive!' Unless Joe develops an interest in alternative O/S - he will just never know there are alternatives. If he gets bitten, he may note that alongside the multitude of magazines on the rack in WH, there are a few Mac and Linux titles. he may even buy one and find the cover disk doesn't run in 'doze. I believe however there are other Euro governments who insist gov business is conducted in 'ux? So what's my point? Linux will not become the obvious and popular alternative to 'doze until your average sales person in the 'puter store can demonstrate that it is equal to 'doze in every aspect that a store browser (window shopper) can get touchy feely pointy clicky with display goods and see that it works. Nobody but nobody will go into your average 'puter store and start typing command lines (excepting you guys of course!) It won't become my replacement until I can run QuarkXPress (and I mean QuarkXPress 'cos it is an interchange format still) and Photoshop CS2. Both of which run beautifully from point and click icons on my desktop! I think that may be six-pennorth! Cheers, BD. NB: I have enjoyed the varied replies to this thread!

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Pointy-clicky
by Bob Dove 28 Nov '05

28 Nov '05

Hi folks, Have I missed the point? Did Digital Research create the GUI in vain? (DR was before Gates, Jobs or Linus mind). Was the 'desktop' that graphic thingy on screen showing replicas of file folders you could point at with the mouse cursor and click click to open to find your files all in vain? I think not! If it is so bad, why do most Linux distros offer the GUI desktop? Surely booting your machine to view on screen some icons that by pointy-clicky gets you where you want to be to do what you want to do - even play with C++ if that is your wish. Why do it the hard way - even if you can do it the hard way? So it is purer computing - so what??? I suppose if you spend your day typing machine code you may not need the desktop that the 99.999% of computer users do. I can open a directory on a drive, navigate to a program folder, find the exe file or other trigger - I used to do it in CP/M and DOS but why type out a path when you can point and click? The icon is after all a short cut to where you want to be, it is in effect a virtual command line. I think it is the command line mindset that puts most people off Linux and locks 'em into 'doze. If Linux was perceived as 'doze but better and dare I say cheaper ('cos most of it is FREE) but as easy to use via pointy-clicky 'doze style 'desktops then I'm sure there'd be many many more users. Lets face it, most home computers have a form of doze pre-installed so the can switch on and point. They couldn't care two hoots how the magic of pointy-clicky works - just that it works for them. And then when it all falls apart, they call the guru in or go back to PC World. In most cases that's extra profit for some-one! Ain't I a cynic eh? Just my twopen'orth mind! BD.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47#
by Chris Green 28 Nov '05

28 Nov '05

On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 01:18:12PM -0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: main-bounces(a)lists.alug.org.uk [mailto:main- > > bounces(a)lists.alug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Chris Green > > Sent: 28 November 2005 13:04 > > To: 'ALUG' > > Subject: [ALUG] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47# > > > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 12:46:32PM -0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine a restaurant where the menu is a several hundred page book.... > > > > > > > > > Sounds like heaven to me, but I doubt that's what you intended ? > > > You need to think more about your analogies ;-) > > > > > You got the message! :-) > > Are you sure ? Your post read that you would prefere the version with NO > menu rather than the counter example you put up..... > > I'm now confused about what point you are trying to make. > I was simply saying that a menu with twenty or thirty entries is fine, and useful, but that one with hundreds of entries isn't useful. To cover all the possible commands available at the command line a menu system would have hundreds (thousands?) of entries. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47#
by Chris Green 28 Nov '05

28 Nov '05

On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 12:46:32PM -0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > > > > Imagine a restaurant where the menu is a several hundred page book.... > > > Sounds like heaven to me, but I doubt that's what you intended ? > You need to think more about your analogies ;-) > You got the message! :-) I was going to write more (hence the ...) but I thought it was fairly obvious. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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Re: main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47
by Bob Dove 28 Nov '05

28 Nov '05

Hi Folks, Multitasking in 'doze (or any other O/S); err, doesn't this sort of clog up memory? When, if ever, minimising but leave running an app free up the memory? I am a heavy duty user of Photoshop, working mainly on 20+ mB files. I need to close down everything else when working or one image may (and its parts in cache or on scratch disk) just uses up all memory and I go into an involuntary reboot. Which is of course a real pain! I'm quite happy to have loads of shortcuts on my VDU virtual 'desktop' but don't allow for background running of other apps - even though 'doze frequently changes my prefs to suit itself. For instance, auto-hide task bar has to be reset daily, multiple windows that have been moved and sized via the very top left icon will revert to default. The dreaded MSM messenger 'service' keeps switching itself on again as does the auto-update routine. The desktop and pointy-clicky is fine, a computer that runs at the whim of BG isn't - hence my interest in Linux. However, having to type code on a command line to open OOo leaves me cold. Are you sure all this typing is not just to keep the Grockles in awe? Cheers, BD. ----- Original Message ----- From: <main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk> To: <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47 > Send main mailing list submissions to > main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > main-owner(a)lists.alug.org.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of main digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox (Wayne Stallwood) > 2. USB Mass Storage woes (and > ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run checksum request) (Ten) > 3. Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox (Anthony Anson) > 4. Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox (Chris Green) > 5. Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox (Chris Green) > 6. Re: USB Mass Storage woes (and > ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run checksum request) > (Wayne Stallwood) > 7. Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox (Chris Green) > 8. Re: Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox (Ian bell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:11:07 +0000 > From: Wayne Stallwood <ALUGlist(a)digimatic.plus.com> > Subject: Re: [ALUG] Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox > To: ALUG <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> > Message-ID: <1133010667.12467.128.camel(a)localhost.localdomain> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 11:07 +0000, Chris Green wrote: > > One thing that surprises me is how few Windows users use the multiple > > virtual 'desktops' that are freely available for windows as they are > > for Unix/Linux systems. I suspect it's the 'desktop' paradigm that > > makes this happen, having as many 'desktops' as you want and being > > able to go from one to another instantly just seems wrong if you're > > stuck in the rut of an office desktop. > > I think this is the same reason that most Windows users are still using > Internet Exploiter...they are either simply not aware of the options or > are scared that they may break something by installing such a utility. > > Also a lot of Windows users I know don't tend to multitask...they will > fullscreen one application and work on that, finish save their work and > close it...open something else. > > Actually that is an important difference between OS X, Linux and Windows > > OS X encourages you to leave stuff running even if you have finished > with it...Clicking the close icon simply minimises the application in > the dock (whilst leaving it running) > > With Linux I tend to leave lots of stuff running in various virtual > desktops. At the moment I see that I have left a Windows XP virtual > machine running on desktop 4, couple of terminal sessions on 2, XMMS is > sitting doing nothing on 3 and I am writing this email on 1 with > Evolution...there is also a Serial console open to the Debian installer > running on the Alpha server behind me and Firefox > > Windows tends to encourage (needs really) you to only have applications > open that you need. I find that if you have too much open then User > Interface slowdown and constant interruptions from dialogue boxes > stealing focus makes the system damn near unusable. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:04:13 +0000 > From: Ten <runlevelten(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [ALUG] USB Mass Storage woes (and > ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run checksum request) > To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Message-ID: <200511261404.16520.runlevelten(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > OK, this is doing my head in. On SuSE 9.2, which I support a few end-users on > around the place as part of my advocacy antics, there is a fairly well-known > problem with some USB mass storage devices. > > If anybody has personally surmounted this problem - or failing that has some > salient ideas about it - or failing that a shoulder to cry on - I'd be hugely > interested to hear about it. > > Now I've had USB dongles working in the past, but due to a bad memory module > hosing my file systems I've had to reinstall and don't have one of those to > check with, so I've no idea whether this is general or specific to the sony > device and suse. > > Issue is this. When plugging in a usb device that is supposed to have its sony > memory stick mounted as a USB mass storage device (specifically a cellphone) > the device is not mountable on the system, it is "offlined". See below. > > The modem device for the phone is detected and configured properly, just no > mass storage device. > > When booting into ubuntu and plugging in the device, everything goes > more-or-less swimmingly. > > I've tried switching to fstab as opposed to subfs, I've tried automatically or > manually mounting (as well as sync/not). > > Any attempt to mount the relevant device results in "not a block device" > errors - whereupon referring to messages reveals it's already been removed > from the system. > > Some log-type goodness: > > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: new full speed USB device using > address 4 > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: Product: Sony Ericsson D750 > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: Manufacturer: Sony Ericsson > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: SerialNumber: 356576003337234_0 > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: Ignoring extra > header > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: cdc_acm 2-2:1.1: ttyACM0: USB ACM device > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: Ignoring extra > header > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: cdc_acm 2-2:1.3: ttyACM1: USB ACM device > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage > devices > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: Vendor: Sony Eri Model: Memory Stick > Rev: 0000 > Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: Type: Direct-Access > ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: SCSI device sda: 248832 512-byte hdwr sectors > (127 MB) > Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: sda: Write Protect is off > Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: sda: Mode Sense: 00 6a 00 00 > Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: sda: assuming drive cache: write through > Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen smpppd[6159]: smpppd version 1.50 started > Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen sshd[6205]: Server listening on :: port 22. > Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: sda:<6>via82xx: Assuming DXS channels with > 48k fixed sample rate. > Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: Please try dxs_support=1 or > dxs_support=4 option > Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: and report if it works on your > machine. > Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:11.5[C] -> GSI 5 > (level, low) -> IRQ 5 > Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: PCI: Setting latency timer of device > 0000:00:11.5 to 64 > Nov 18 23:00:49 amonhen kernel: parport0: PC-style at 0x378 > [PCSPP,TRISTATE,EPP] > Nov 18 23:00:49 amonhen kernel: parport0: irq 7 detected > Nov 18 23:00:49 amonhen kernel: lp0: using parport0 (polling). > Nov 18 23:00:51 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6647]: add tty > device /class/tty/ttyACM1 > Nov 18 23:00:51 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6655]: add tty > device /class/tty/ttyACM0 > Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6674]: remove tty > device /class/tty/ttyACM0 > Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6677]: remove tty > device /class/tty/ttyACM1 > Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[6705]: umount block > device /block/sda > Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[6705]: remove /dev/sda > from fstab > Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6810]: add tty > device /class/tty/ttyACM1 > Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6824]: add tty > device /class/tty/ttyACM0 > Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/50-hwscan.dev[6869]: new block > device /block/sda > Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen kernel: drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial > support registered for Generic > Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[6884]: mount block > device /block/sda > Nov 18 23:00:58 amonhen kernel: Non-volatile memory driver v1.2 > Nov 18 23:01:00 amonhen kdm: :0[6926]: pam_unix2: session started for user > bcu1, service xdm-np > Nov 18 23:01:01 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[7128]: umount block > device /block/sda/sda1 > Nov 18 23:01:01 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[7128]: remove /dev/sda1 > from fstab > Nov 18 23:01:06 amonhen modprobe: FATAL: Error inserting sonypi > (/lib/modules/2.6.8-24-default/kernel/drivers/char/sonypi.ko): No such device > Nov 18 23:01:10 amonhen kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 0 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi: Device offlined - not ready after error > recovery: host 1 channel 0 id 0 lun 0 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: SCSI error : <1 0 0 0> return code = 0x50000 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 248824 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block > 31103 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device > > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block > 31103 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block > 0 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block > 0 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: ldm_validate_partition_table(): Disk read > failed. > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block > 0 > Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: unable to read partition table > > > Oh, also, I have an ati driver which I may tentatively install to get some > games going - at 50 odd MB it's a heavy old file for a dialup connection, so > if anyluggers have copies of ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run they can > provide me with a checksum for, warm fuzzy thanks would abound. :) > > Cheers, > > Ten. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:14:16 GMT > From: Anthony Anson <tony.anson(a)zetnet.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [ALUG] Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox > To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Message-ID: <313030303230303843886DB873(a)zetnet.co.uk> > > The message <1133010667.12467.128.camel(a)localhost.localdomain> > from Wayne Stallwood <ALUGlist(a)digimatic.plus.com> contains these words: > > > On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 11:07 +0000, Chris Green wrote: > > > One thing that surprises me is how few Windows users use the multiple > > > virtual 'desktops' that are freely available for windows as they are > > > for Unix/Linux systems. I suspect it's the 'desktop' paradigm that > > > makes this happen, having as many 'desktops' as you want and being > > > able to go from one to another instantly just seems wrong if you're > > > stuck in the rut of an office desktop. > > > I think this is the same reason that most Windows users are still using > > Internet Exploiter...they are either simply not aware of the options or > > are scared that they may break something by installing such a utility. > > All too many of them are quite unaware that there is any alternative. > May I boast that I have only ever used IE once (outside the system) some > time ago, and that was on a new installation, to go and get Opera. With > Opera, I got Firebird. Before that I was using Netscape. (Got as far as > N4...) > > > Also a lot of Windows users I know don't tend to multitask...they will > > fullscreen one application and work on that, finish save their work and > > close it...open something else. > > I used to, using 3.11, but my Win 2000 box often has half a dozen progs > running, especially if I'm manipulating images or writing html pages. > > > Actually that is an important difference between OS X, Linux and Windows > > > OS X encourages you to leave stuff running even if you have finished > > with it...Clicking the close icon simply minimises the application in > > the dock (whilst leaving it running) > > Never used that. > > > With Linux I tend to leave lots of stuff running in various virtual > > desktops. At the moment I see that I have left a Windows XP virtual > > machine running on desktop 4, couple of terminal sessions on 2, XMMS is > > sitting doing nothing on 3 and I am writing this email on 1 with > > Evolution...there is also a Serial console open to the Debian installer > > running on the Alpha server behind me and Firefox > > All I have ATM is the mail/news software, Nero and a couple of text > files. Writing wibbles on the Windows box I might have Explorer, > Notepad, Pagemill, Arachnophilia, Firefox, Opera, WS_FTP, Nero and > ZIMACS, as well as the two text documents I usually have there for > making notes on. > > > Windows tends to encourage (needs really) you to only have applications > > open that you need. I find that if you have too much open then User > > Interface slowdown and constant interruptions from dialogue boxes > > stealing focus makes the system damn near unusable. > > Not found that, though I do tend to close anything I'm not using, just > in case. It takes longer to save and close everything if the supply goes > on to the UPS... > > -- > Tony > http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:47:21 +0000 > From: Chris Green <chris(a)areti.co.uk> > Subject: [ALUG] Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox > To: ALUG <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> > Message-ID: <20051126144721.GA6331(a)areti.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 10:46:33PM +0000, Ian bell wrote: > > Chris Green wrote: > > >On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 07:17:21PM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote: > > > > > >>On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 13:11 +0000, Chris Green wrote: > > >> > > >>>Desktops as such don't hide complexity, they just mask it with a > > >>>different complexity. A simple desktop may hide complexity but then > > >>>so may a simple window manager with a different paradigm, how about > > >>>TWM with a single xterm window on it? > > >> > > >> > > >>So are you against a GUI interface in general and the Desktop concept is > > >>just part of that paradigm ? > > >> > > > > > >No, I'm against the computer pretending that it's something it isn't. > > > > A computer is a tool, a very general purpose tool, a very flexible > > tool and a very programmeable tool. It's appearance can be anything > > its various users want it to be. And if some want it to be a GUI with > > a desktop then it can be. > > > Yes, but all the other possible approaches seem to be disappearing > and, as a result, many, many users are not well served. If the only > accessible idiom is a desktop then the user is the poorer. > > -- > Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) > > "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:52:02 +0000 > From: Chris Green <chris(a)areti.co.uk> > Subject: [ALUG] Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox > To: ALUG <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> > Message-ID: <20051126145202.GB6331(a)areti.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 01:11:07PM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote: > > On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 11:07 +0000, Chris Green wrote: > > > One thing that surprises me is how few Windows users use the multiple > > > virtual 'desktops' that are freely available for windows as they are > > > for Unix/Linux systems. I suspect it's the 'desktop' paradigm that > > > makes this happen, having as many 'desktops' as you want and being > > > able to go from one to another instantly just seems wrong if you're > > > stuck in the rut of an office desktop. > > > > I think this is the same reason that most Windows users are still using > > Internet Exploiter...they are either simply not aware of the options or > > are scared that they may break something by installing such a utility. > > > > Also a lot of Windows users I know don't tend to multitask...they will > > fullscreen one application and work on that, finish save their work and > > close it...open something else. > > > Yes, I find that wierd too, the number of people who run everything > full screen. One of the basic powers of a GUI is multiple overlapping > (or maybe tiled) windows and many users aviod using it! > > > > Windows tends to encourage (needs really) you to only have applications > > open that you need. I find that if you have too much open then User > > Interface slowdown and constant interruptions from dialogue boxes > > stealing focus makes the system damn near unusable. > > > At home and at work my approach is to run a windows virtual multi-screen > environment with one of the screens dedicated to my Linux (or at work, > Solaris) desktop. Most of my work goes on in the Linux/Solaris desktop > but it's dead easy to flip over to one of the other screens if/when I > need to run something (other than the X server) under Windows. > > -- > Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) > > "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:52:40 +0000 > From: Wayne Stallwood <ALUGlist(a)digimatic.plus.com> > Subject: Re: [ALUG] USB Mass Storage woes (and > ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run checksum request) > To: ALUG <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> > Message-ID: <1133016760.12467.149.camel(a)localhost.localdomain> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On Sat, 2005-11-26 at 14:04 +0000, Ten wrote: > > OK, this is doing my head in. On SuSE 9.2, which I support a few end-users on > > around the place as part of my advocacy antics, there is a fairly well-known > > problem with some USB mass storage devices. > > > > If anybody has personally surmounted this problem - or failing that has some > > salient ideas about it - or failing that a shoulder to cry on - I'd be hugely > > interested to hear about it. > > Try comparing /drivers/usb/storage/unusual_devs.h in the kernel source > tree on your SuSE and Ubuntu systems. It may be that there is an entry > for that specific device in the later system that was not in the SuSE > kernel. > > I had similar problems with a Pentax Optio S camera where there was a > fix for the previous model but on the new version they had changed the > vendor id's > > > > > Oh, also, I have an ati driver which I may tentatively install to get some > > games going - at 50 odd MB it's a heavy old file for a dialup connection, so > > if anyluggers have copies of ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run they can > > provide me with a checksum for, warm fuzzy thanks would abound. :) > > > Md5 checksum as follows > > 11c881f1558439949d346ae184f9067a ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:57:05 +0000 > From: Chris Green <chris(a)areti.co.uk> > Subject: [ALUG] Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox > To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Message-ID: <20051126145705.GC6331(a)areti.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 02:14:16PM +0000, Anthony Anson wrote: > > > With Linux I tend to leave lots of stuff running in various virtual > > > desktops. At the moment I see that I have left a Windows XP virtual > > > machine running on desktop 4, couple of terminal sessions on 2, XMMS is > > > sitting doing nothing on 3 and I am writing this email on 1 with > > > Evolution...there is also a Serial console open to the Debian installer > > > running on the Alpha server behind me and Firefox > > > > All I have ATM is the mail/news software, Nero and a couple of text > > files. Writing wibbles on the Windows box I might have Explorer, > > Notepad, Pagemill, Arachnophilia, Firefox, Opera, WS_FTP, Nero and > > ZIMACS, as well as the two text documents I usually have there for > > making notes on. > > > As I said earlier in the thread my tendency is to have a number of > rxvt (lightweight xterm) window running. I use mutt for mail in one > of them and tin for news in another. I have firefox running in a > screen of its own (with an rxvt window behind). The occasional other > application I need I tend to run by typing its name in a terminal > window. I have a GUI version of my editor (xvile) that I pop up for > program development etc. > > -- > Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) > > "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:40:01 +0000 > From: Ian bell <ianbell(a)ukfsn.org> > Subject: Re: [ALUG] Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox > To: ALUG <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> > Message-ID: <438881D1.6070500(a)ukfsn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Chris Green wrote: > > >>> > >>>No, I'm against the computer pretending that it's something it isn't. > >> > >>A computer is a tool, a very general purpose tool, a very flexible > >>tool and a very programmeable tool. It's appearance can be anything > >>its various users want it to be. And if some want it to be a GUI with > >>a desktop then it can be. > >> > > > > Yes, but all the other possible approaches seem to be disappearing > > and, as a result, many, many users are not well served. If the only > > accessible idiom is a desktop then the user is the poorer. > > > > I see no evidance of that. The console is still available even under > windows and if anything, the number of GUI interfaces under Linux is > increasing. > > Ian > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ > http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main > > > End of main Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47 > ***********************************

7 12

Re: While I'm moaning about firefox
by tom potts 28 Nov '05

28 Nov '05

Chris - you hate C++ because its powerful. And desktops hide complexity! Time to dig out that old machine code I think, and a few toggle switches for input - 8 enuf? ___________________________________________________________ WIN ONE OF THREE YAHOO! VESPAS - Enter now! - http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/features/competitions/vespa.html

8 42

Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 28 Nov '05

28 Nov '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

1 0

pointy clicky
by Peter 27 Nov '05

27 Nov '05

On Sunday 27 Nov 2005 13:12, main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > However, having to type code on a command line to open > OOo leaves me cold. Are you sure all this typing is not just to keep the > Grockles in awe? Use OO every day, and never once started it from the command line. But that's just a naive user talking. On Mandriva. Lot to be said for Mandriva for naive users. Just works. Well, there was a bit of a problem with 10.1 and 10.2 installing on some systems. But 2005 and 2006 are ok Better than Suse. Easier than Debian to manage, though harder to keep up to date. Give it a go, and you can pretend terminal windows don't exist. Except maybe for setting permissions. Get "How Linux Works" by Brian Ward. Very nice how-to book for us naive users. Peter

1 0

USB Mass Storage woes (and ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run checksum request)
by Ten 27 Nov '05

27 Nov '05

OK, this is doing my head in. On SuSE 9.2, which I support a few end-users on around the place as part of my advocacy antics, there is a fairly well-known problem with some USB mass storage devices. If anybody has personally surmounted this problem - or failing that has some salient ideas about it - or failing that a shoulder to cry on - I'd be hugely interested to hear about it. Now I've had USB dongles working in the past, but due to a bad memory module hosing my file systems I've had to reinstall and don't have one of those to check with, so I've no idea whether this is general or specific to the sony device and suse. Issue is this. When plugging in a usb device that is supposed to have its sony memory stick mounted as a USB mass storage device (specifically a cellphone) the device is not mountable on the system, it is "offlined". See below. The modem device for the phone is detected and configured properly, just no mass storage device. When booting into ubuntu and plugging in the device, everything goes more-or-less swimmingly. I've tried switching to fstab as opposed to subfs, I've tried automatically or manually mounting (as well as sync/not). Any attempt to mount the relevant device results in "not a block device" errors - whereupon referring to messages reveals it's already been removed from the system. Some log-type goodness: Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: new full speed USB device using address 4 Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: Product: Sony Ericsson D750 Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: Manufacturer: Sony Ericsson Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: usb 2-2: SerialNumber: 356576003337234_0 Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: Ignoring extra header Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: cdc_acm 2-2:1.1: ttyACM0: USB ACM device Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: Ignoring extra header Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: cdc_acm 2-2:1.3: ttyACM1: USB ACM device Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: Vendor: Sony Eri Model: Memory Stick Rev: 0000 Nov 18 23:00:44 amonhen kernel: Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: SCSI device sda: 248832 512-byte hdwr sectors (127 MB) Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: sda: Write Protect is off Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: sda: Mode Sense: 00 6a 00 00 Nov 18 23:00:45 amonhen kernel: sda: assuming drive cache: write through Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen smpppd[6159]: smpppd version 1.50 started Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen sshd[6205]: Server listening on :: port 22. Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: sda:<6>via82xx: Assuming DXS channels with 48k fixed sample rate. Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: Please try dxs_support=1 or dxs_support=4 option Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: and report if it works on your machine. Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:11.5[C] -> GSI 5 (level, low) -> IRQ 5 Nov 18 23:00:46 amonhen kernel: PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:11.5 to 64 Nov 18 23:00:49 amonhen kernel: parport0: PC-style at 0x378 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,EPP] Nov 18 23:00:49 amonhen kernel: parport0: irq 7 detected Nov 18 23:00:49 amonhen kernel: lp0: using parport0 (polling). Nov 18 23:00:51 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6647]: add tty device /class/tty/ttyACM1 Nov 18 23:00:51 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6655]: add tty device /class/tty/ttyACM0 Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6674]: remove tty device /class/tty/ttyACM0 Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6677]: remove tty device /class/tty/ttyACM1 Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[6705]: umount block device /block/sda Nov 18 23:00:52 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[6705]: remove /dev/sda from fstab Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6810]: add tty device /class/tty/ttyACM1 Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/tty/50-visor.dev[6824]: add tty device /class/tty/ttyACM0 Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/50-hwscan.dev[6869]: new block device /block/sda Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen kernel: drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for Generic Nov 18 23:00:55 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[6884]: mount block device /block/sda Nov 18 23:00:58 amonhen kernel: Non-volatile memory driver v1.2 Nov 18 23:01:00 amonhen kdm: :0[6926]: pam_unix2: session started for user bcu1, service xdm-np Nov 18 23:01:01 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[7128]: umount block device /block/sda/sda1 Nov 18 23:01:01 amonhen /etc/dev.d/block/51-subfs.dev[7128]: remove /dev/sda1 from fstab Nov 18 23:01:06 amonhen modprobe: FATAL: Error inserting sonypi (/lib/modules/2.6.8-24-default/kernel/drivers/char/sonypi.ko): No such device Nov 18 23:01:10 amonhen kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 0 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi: Device offlined - not ready after error recovery: host 1 channel 0 id 0 lun 0 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: SCSI error : <1 0 0 0> return code = 0x50000 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 248824 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 31103 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 31103 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 0 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 0 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: ldm_validate_partition_table(): Disk read failed. Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: scsi1 (0:0): rejecting I/O to offline device Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 0 Nov 18 23:01:45 amonhen kernel: unable to read partition table Oh, also, I have an ati driver which I may tentatively install to get some games going - at 50 odd MB it's a heavy old file for a dialup connection, so if anyluggers have copies of ati-driver-installer-8.16.20-i386.run they can provide me with a checksum for, warm fuzzy thanks would abound. :) Cheers, Ten.

2 2

Apologies if...
by Anthony Anson 27 Nov '05

27 Nov '05

Apologies if I don't reply to anything anyone expects me to - a corrupt mail item borked my database right on the crux of Saturday/Sunday (when the database packs), and until I can find the time to get inside it and hack a few things out, I'm running on a week-old backup databse. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

1 0

Re: [ALUG] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: While I'm moaning about firefox
by Ian bell 26 Nov '05

26 Nov '05

Chris Green wrote: > On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 07:14:23PM +0000, Ian bell wrote: > >>Chris Green wrote: >> >>>On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 06:07:29PM +0000, Ian bell wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Chris Green wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>This is where we differ/misunderstand. What I'm saying is that GUI is >>>>>*not* the same as DeskTop. There are lots of other ways of >>>>>approaching a GUI way of using a computer than the pseudo-office one. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Agreed. But you seemed to be claiming it was forced upon you. >>>> >>> >>>It was, by Firefox, instead of a proper directory selection I got:- >>> >>> Home >>> Desktop >>> Fileysystem >>> >> >>No, you chose to use Firefox. If it does not do what you want, use >>something else. >> > > ... but, apparently, the change is in the underlying graphics library, > not Firefox. Most other browsers are likely to use the same file > selection dialogue. > You are going to have to be a bit more specific - which library? Ian

1 0

While I'm moaning about firefox
by Chris Green 26 Nov '05

26 Nov '05

Does anyone like the new file selection boxes? It had me totally confused when I first came across it, the 'directory/folder' window just has the words Home, Desktop and Filesystem in it - it took me quite a while to realise that Filesystem means /. I'm still not sure if I know what Desktop means. ... and nowhere does it display the full path as you navigate. This is Firefox 1.5 release candidate by the way. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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Re: While I'm moaning about firefox
by MJ Ray 26 Nov '05

26 Nov '05

Jon Dye wrote: > If you'd said Java I'd have understood the argument as in Java > everything has to be part of an object. I thought Java was another of these silly languages like Python where not everything is an object, but "everything is an object" is still often claimed? I guess "everything is an object except the things that aren't" doesn't make teachers and advocates look as good... -- MJR/slef, personal email, http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html

2 1

Plea for Help
by Wayne Stallwood 26 Nov '05

26 Nov '05

Does anybody have access to a EISA Configuration Utility Floppy for an Alphaserver 1000 (or similar I think the ECU is universal amongst most EISA based Alpha machines) Debian is refusing to see my KFESA-AA DSSI card and I think that's because it's not been configured correctly via the ECU I can see my local drives on the SCSI bus, but I have two 6 disk DSSI shelves full of disks that I want to access (mainly so I can wipe them for disposal) I know the ALUG probably isn't the most obvious place for Alpha/VAXen questions but I am hoping that as the Alpha 1000 was a pretty common mid range server someone may have the utilities for one laying around. Not sure what the license says, but a DD image of the ECU floppy would really help

2 1

Gnome icon preview of photos not always working
by Tim Green 25 Nov '05

25 Nov '05

On 11/25/05, Adam Bower <adam(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote: > I keep a few files on my desktop, due to the goodness > of Gnome doing icon preview of photos this is quite handy I find it quite odd, and anoying, when Gnome decides not to do a preview of some photos. I'll load a bunch of photos from my camera, and some of them will stay as generic icons and others will show the preview. What gives? Tim.

2 2

[ALUG Announce] Postgrad research survey on Free/Open Source Software
by MJ Ray 24 Nov '05

24 Nov '05

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- There is a questionnaire about software use and development online at http://www.postgrad.isipartnership.net/~aschofield/FOSSsurvey.htm It's being carried out by Andrew Schofield, webmaster of the Linux Society and User Group based at the University of Salford, as part of his PhD studies. It's one page, doesn't seem to need scripts, cookies or CSS and if you provide your email address, you'll be sent a copy of the results when it's completed. -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

1 0

Further to my apache2 error
by Chris Green 24 Nov '05

24 Nov '05

The error(s) I get in the apache2 error log are:- [Thu Nov 24 13:41:50 2005] [error] [client 193.128.168.194] (13)Permission denied: exec of '/var/www/cgi-bin/twiki/pub/TWiki/PlainSkin/fullscreen.gif' failed, referer: http://my.system.net/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiSkinBrowser?skin=pla… [Thu Nov 24 13:41:50 2005] [error] [client 193.128.168.194] Premature end of script headers: fullscreen.gif, referer: http://my.system.net/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiSkinBrowser?skin=pla… It appears that the perl in the TWiki is trying to execute the fullscreen.gif file. Previously I had execute permission set on the file and then I was getting "(8)Exec format error:" but otherwise the result was the same. I don't think it's an apache error as GIFs elsewhere seem to be handled OK, it's just within the TWiki that its screwy. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

1 0

Simple Apache 2 question/problem
by Chris Green 24 Nov '05

24 Nov '05

I have apache2 running on my Slackware system, it's been there quite a while just serving some simple web pages. I've now added Twiki and, much to my surprise, it mostly works. It's only for my own edification really, and maybe the family to use as well. However I'm getting the dreaded "Premature end of script headers" error, from what I can see in the apache error log it's happening whenever the Twiki tries to display a GIF. Is there some magic I have to apply to the apache configuration so it knows how to display GIFs? Or is something else adrift maybe? -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

2 2

Problem with Firefox, IE better!
by Chris Green 24 Nov '05

24 Nov '05

I was just trying to download a file with Firefox (Twiki.tgz from www.twiki.org) and couldn't. All Firefox would do was open the file as if it was HTML and displayed random rubbish in the browser window. Right clicking on the link didn't offer me any useful options either. IE just asked what I wanted to do and download it. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

6 9

[ALUG Announce] OpenMute Tour, Norwich
by Anthony Iles 23 Nov '05

23 Nov '05

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- Hello Anglia Linux Users, I am the coordinator for UK OpenMute Tour, a tour about cultural uses of Free and Open Source Software. I sent an invite to your list earlier in the year, but the date was postponed, as a few members of the list expressed an interest I am sending it again with the new date for two days of workshop at Norwich Arts Centre, December 1st-2nd. Anthony Iles --- OPENMUTE TOUR ANNOUNCE USERLAND : FREE LIBRE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE WORKING FOR YOU! OpenMute is an online collaborative software tool initiative, and the latest in a cadre of projects by Mute Magazine. OpenMute provides 'free as in beer' web space, tools and services to the non-profit and creative sectors. The OpenMute tour is a varied set of two-day workshops with an aim to familiarise audiences, practitioners and interested parties with the current concepts and practices of Free Open Source Software (or FOSS) as well as practical hands-on help building a website or creating a community project using the OpenMute toolset. The workshops are geared towards teaching people 'you' how to use the OpenMute FOSS software for your cultural or community needs, and these workshops are geared towards a novice to intermediate user of these systems Price : £20 / £10 concessions Date : 1st-2nd December Duration : Two Days Times : 10-4pm artist's talk after first day of workshop 4.30pm. Venue : Norwich Arts Centre, St. Benedict's Street, Norwich, NR2 4PG Booking : 01603 660352 All workshop participants please register for your free floss web site http://openmute.org Full details for the UK tour http://3d.openmute.org/modules/wakka/UserLand ***1st DECEMBER 4.30PM ARTIST TALK BY RICHARD WRIGHT OF MONGREL ON FREE AND OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE AND CULTURAL PRACTICE*** ALL WELCOME / NO ADMISSION CHARGE About Mongrel Mongrel is a mixed bunch of people, machines and intelligence's working to celebrate the methods of a motley culture. We make socially engaged culture, which sometimes means making art, sometimes software, sometimes setting up workshops, or helping other mongrels to set things up. We do this by employing any and all technological advantage that we can lay our hands on. Some of us have dedicated ourselves to learning technological methods of engagement, which means we pride ourselves on our ability to programme, engineer and build our own software, while others of us have dedicated ourselves to learning how to work with people. http://www.mongrelx.org/ 1/12/05 4.30-5.30pm Norwich Arts Centre, St. Benedict's Street, Norwich, NR2 4PG --- END ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

1 0

X file manager that shows icon files
by Chris Green 21 Nov '05

21 Nov '05

I'm looking for an X file manager, or just an icon manager program, that will show me the icon files in a directory as the icons they are. Simply a display program is all I need really, just a way to select icons by name. Any suggestions? xfm isn't it as it just shows a teddy bear for all the icon files. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

2 2

UPS in Fens?
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 21 Nov '05

21 Nov '05

Hi Folks, Can anyone recommend a good place to look for a UPS within reasonable reach of Ely? I've been running a Belkin 625VA "Regulator Pro Gold" very happily for some 4 years, but unfortunately its battery is now going dodgy. In view of Belkin's approach to battery replacement, I now want to simply replace the whole UPS. So I'm looking for 600+ watts, at least 3 battery-protected 220C power outlets. One good thing about the Belkin was that its controlling software came also in a Linux version, allowing clean shutdown of connected machines. I've had a look in PC World in Cambridge, and their current stock of stuff is not up to what I'm after, though maybe I could go for a lower-rated UPS per machine. Not keen on proliferations, though! Ely itself is useless for this sort of thing. I've not tried Downham Market (prior expectations low anyway), and the one time I did browse round PC World at King's Lynn I wasn't that impressed. But people must manage somehow round here! As to Belkin's support: You have to contact them by phone. Took several calls over days, on occasion hanging on for up to 20 min, to speak to someone. Only to be told that they're not licensed to sell the batteries separately in Europe, so I'd have to send the unit back to them and they'd return it with a replacement battery. "It should be done within a week." No thanks. Apart from the hassle and expense of boxing it up and sending it myself, in these parts you don't want to be UPS-less that long! (And it might be longer). Ah well ... Thanks for any suggestions! Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 16-Nov-05 Time: 15:08:33 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

13 37

Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 21 Nov '05

21 Nov '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

1 0

Re: Wireless Router for sale
by Simon 20 Nov '05

20 Nov '05

Dave, Yes please! I'll grab it off you at the next alug meeting? :) Thank you very much... -Simon Quoting main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk: > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:09:25 +0000 > From: David Reynolds <david(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk> > Subject: [ALUG] Wireless Router for sale > To: ALUG <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> > Message-ID: <5a285af9a0a466cbb3c5d9209ad18242(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Hi, > > I have a Netgear WGR614 v5 that I want rid of. In perfect working > order, boxed with all the bits it came with. All I'm asking is 15quid > ono. > > Cheers, > > Dave > -- > David Reynolds > david(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk

1 0

Wireless Router for sale
by David Reynolds 19 Nov '05

19 Nov '05

Hi, I have a Netgear WGR614 v5 that I want rid of. In perfect working order, boxed with all the bits it came with. All I'm asking is 15quid ono. Cheers, Dave -- David Reynolds david(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk

1 0

GDM not shutting down
by Peter 19 Nov '05

19 Nov '05

This is what's in /var/log/gdm. Peter Build Date: 16 September 2005 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Sat Nov 19 08:00:13 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" (EE) Unable to open /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a (EE) Failed to load module "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a" (open fa iled, 2) The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Type "ONE_LEVEL" has 1 levels, but <RALT> has 2 symbols > Ignoring extra symbols Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server

1 0

RE: [ALUG] PCI-E graphics cards
by Chris Glover 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 10:31 +0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 10:00 +0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with PCI-E graphics cards ? > > > > > > I've purchased a ATI X800-GTO to put in my new AMD 64 box, but I'm > > confused > > > by what it says on the box ... "Mother board must support specialized > > 12V > > > connector for graphics cards" (Or words to that effect). > > > > > > Now there is space on the graphics card for a 6 pin (2x3) socket but > > there > > > is not one mounted there, so I'm guessing that I don't need to provide > > this > > > particular version of the card with any additional power (other than > > what it > > > can draw from the PCI-E connector). > > > > > > Any thoughts ? > > > > > > Peter > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > On both of my PCI Express equipped machines, there is a Harddrive style > > power connector right next to the PCIE slot which needs a power cable > > plugged in. This is in addition to the square 4pin connector that gives > > 12v to the processor. > > > > Hope that helps > > Mine has both of them as well, but it's obvious what to plug into them ! :-) > > My problem is the box for the graphics card seems to suggest there should be > a power connector on the card itself, yet the space is unpopulated. > > Peter It varies from card to card. You'll find the babies of the range don't have it, yet the more powerfull cards do. I have an Nvidia 6200 card, which has the solder points on the board for the socket, but no socket. It works perfectly without it. So if the manufactures never fitted the socket to the board, chances are you wont need it! HTH Chris -- Chris ---------------------------------- E Mail: chris(a)glovercc.plus.com SIP: 84411389(a)voiptalk.org IAXTEL: 17003366726

2 1

Fat Cat Meeting, Tomorrow Night
by Simon 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

Hi, Due to the fact a number of Alug members weren't able to make the meeting at the Reindeer last thursday, another extra meeting is being organised for tomorrow night. (Wednesday 16th Nov) Meeting at about 8pm till close. The Fat Cat, if you've not been there before is located on the corner of West End Street and Nelson Street, just off Dereham Road. (Map: http://tinyurl.com/c5sl7 ) Expect the usual mix of open source and beer! Hope you can make it. -Simon

4 4

Window managers, changing, choosing, etc.
by Chris Green 16 Nov '05

16 Nov '05

Why is it always so difficult to change Window Managers! :-) I currently use xfwm but I'm considering moving to an alternative because xfce is getting too 'clever' for my liking. However, because I'm using xfce's session manager it's almost locked me in to xfce. How can I disentangle things a bit? Currently I use wdm to start things up and that in turn executes my .xsession which, currently, runs xfce. wdm offers a menu of window managers but this has no effect, I'm not clear how it works, it would be nice to make it work. Alternatively where can I find a .xsession file suitable for starting other window managers? I'm quite happy to switch between window managers by simply changing the .xsession file. I can at least understand what's going on then! -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

2 2

Re: [ALUG] Good Evening Everyone! New member here!
by Peter 16 Nov '05

16 Nov '05

Tried to install amyedit, which looks quite interesting, but on configure, it turns out to be dependency hell! Various gtkmm bits are not in the path, or not installed, so I tried installing them (this is Mandriva), they seemed to go in ok, but still can't configure. I do have apt-rpm installed, but that doesn't seem to find gtkmm... Oh well. I'll keep trying, but one question: why, in the FAQ, does it answer the question why not use GEDIT instead? Am I missing something about GEDIT? It looks like any other very stripped down text editor, and not at all to be an alternative to Kile or Lyx or anything like that. There must be more to it, if people use it to create LaTex? Peter

2 1

NFS via crossover cable networking problem
by stelmack＠nwlink.com 15 Nov '05

15 Nov '05

Greetings, This is an old 233MHZ "box1" or 192.168.1.1 set to be the client. It is connected to another 1GHZ "box2" or 192.168.1.2 via a crossover cable. As you can see I am able to ping the client from the client (no big excitement there), and I am able to ping the server (after much experimentation and research). (Don't ask me ALL the things I did wrong and the BIOS setting when there two NIC's installed --- whew!!!) Now I am trying to set up a NFS to gain access of files from either box. I am unable to mount the file system for use in either direction. I've read every "HOW-TO" and believe I've got it set up right, but I'm stuck. Both systems are versions of RedHat (7.3 for the older and 8.0 for the newer box). Anything I should check, do or change? I'm fairly new to Linux so I may have done something basically wrong. Cheers, Bob Stelmack ====================================================================== 192.168.1.1 "box1" details ====================================================================== [root@ramjet stelmack]# hostname ramjet [root@ramjet stelmack]# more /etc/exports 192.168.1.1(rw) 192.168.1.2(rw) [root@ramjet stelmack]# cd /mnt [root@ramjet mnt]# ls cdrom cdrom1 floppy floppy.directory home zip100.0.drectory [root@ramjet stelmack]# mount 192.168.1.2: /home mount: RPC: Unable to recieve; error = Connection refused [root@ramjet stelmack]# /sbin/ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:C0:4F:CF:10:B1 inet addr:192.168.1.1 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 02:00:07:E3:67:38 inet addr:192.168.1.4 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:212 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:212 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 RX bytes:14404 (14.0 Kb) TX bytes:14404 (14.0 Kb) [root@ramjet stelmack]# ping 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) from 192.168.1.1 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=780 usec Warning: time of day goes back, taking countermeasures. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=1.811 msec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=276 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=262 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=268 usec --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/mdev = 0.262/0.679/1.811/0.599 ms [root@ramjet stelmack]# ping 192.168.1.2 PING 192.168.1.2 (192.168.1.2) from 192.168.1.1 : 56(84) bytes of data. Warning: time of day goes back, taking countermeasures. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=2.513 msec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=387 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=398 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=397 usec --- 192.168.1.2 ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/mdev = 0.387/0.923/2.513/0.918 ms [root@ramjet stelmack]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p localhost program vers proto port 100000 2 tcp 111 portmapper 100000 2 udp 111 portmapper 100024 1 udp 32768 status 100024 1 tcp 32768 status 391002 2 tcp 32769 sgi_fam [root@ramjet stelmack]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.1 program vers proto port 100000 2 tcp 111 portmapper 100000 2 udp 111 portmapper 100024 1 udp 32768 status 100024 1 tcp 32768 status 391002 2 tcp 32769 sgi_fam [root@ramjet stelmack]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.2 rpcinfo: can't contact portmapper: RPC: Remote system error - Connection refused [root@ramjet stelmack]# cd /etc [root@ramjet etc]# more host.conf order hosts,bind [root@ramjet etc]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 ramjet localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.1 box1 192.168.1.2 box2 [root@ramjet etc]# more hosts.allow # # hosts.allow This file describes the names of the hosts which are # allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # [root@ramjet etc]# more hosts.deny # # hosts.deny This file describes the names of the hosts which are # *not* allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # # The portmap line is redundant, but it is left to remind you that # the new secure portmap uses hosts.deny and hosts.allow. In particular # you should know that NFS uses portmap! [root@ramjet sysconfig]# more network NETWORKING=yes HOSTNAME=ramjet [root@ramjet sysconfig]# cd networking/ [root@ramjet networking]# ls devices ifcfg-lo profiles [root@ramjet networking]# cd profiles [root@ramjet profiles]# ls default [root@ramjet profiles]# cd default [root@ramjet default]# ls hosts ifcfg-eth0 ifcfg-mybtinternet network ifcfg-bt ifcfg-eth0.bak ifcfg-ppp0 resolv.conf ifcfg-bt internet ifcfg-eth1 junk [root@ramjet default]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 ramjet localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.1 box1 192.168.1.2 box2 [root@ramjet default]# more network HOSTNAME=ramjet [root@ramjet default]# more ifcfg-eth0 DEVICE=eth0 ONBOOT=yes BOOTPROTO=static TYPE=Ethernet USERCTL=no PEERDNS=no BROADCAST=192.168.1.255 NETWORK=192.168.1.0 NETMASK=255.255.255.0 [root@ramjet default]# more resolv.conf nameserver 192.168.1.1 [root@ramjet default]# more /etc/rc.d/rc.local #!/bin/sh # # This script will be executed *after* all the other init scripts. # You can put your own initialization stuff in here if you don't # want to do the full Sys V style init stuff. /sbin/ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.1 broadcast 192.168.1.255 netmask 255.255.255.0 up /sbin/ifconfig eth1 192.168.1.4 broadcast 192.168.1.255 netmask 255.255.255.0 up touch /var/lock/subsys/local ====================================================================== 192.168.1.2 "box2" details ====================================================================== [root@dell stelmack]# hostname dell [root@dell stelmack]# more /etc/exports 192.168.1.2(rw) 192.168.1.1(rw) [root@dell stelmack]# cd /mnt [root@dell mnt]# ls cdrom floppy home [root@dell mnt]# mount 192.168.1.1: /home mount: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive [root@dell mnt]# /sbin/ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:06:5B:70:C0:C3 inet addr:192.168.1.2 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:20 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:24 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:1650 (1.6 Kb) TX bytes:1918 (1.8 Kb) Interrupt:11 Base address:0xec80 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:72 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:72 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:4694 (4.5 Kb) TX bytes:4694 (4.5 Kb) [root@dell mnt]# ping 192.168.1.2 PING 192.168.1.2 (192.168.1.2) from 192.168.1.2 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.124 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.071 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.060 ms --- 192.168.1.2 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% loss, time 2002ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.060/0.085/0.124/0.027 ms [root@dell mnt]# ping 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) from 192.168.1.2 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=0.307 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=0.298 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=0.296 ms --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% loss, time 2000ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.296/0.300/0.307/0.014 ms [root@dell mnt]# [root@dell mnt]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.2 program vers proto port 100000 2 tcp 111 portmapper 100000 2 udp 111 portmapper 100024 1 udp 1024 status 100024 1 tcp 1024 status 391002 2 tcp 1025 sgi_fam [root@dell mnt]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.1 rpcinfo: can't contact portmapper: RPC: Remote system error - Connection refused[root@dell mnt]# [root@dell mnt]# [root@dell mnt]# cd /etc [root@dell etc]# more host.conf order hosts,bind [root@dell etc]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 dell localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.2 box2 192.168.1.1 box1 [root@dell etc]# more hosts.allow # # hosts.allow This file describes the names of the hosts which are # allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # [root@dell etc]# more hosts.deny # # hosts.deny This file describes the names of the hosts which are # *not* allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # # The portmap line is redundant, but it is left to remind you that # the new secure portmap uses hosts.deny and hosts.allow. In particular # you should know that NFS uses portmap! [root@dell etc]# [root@dell etc]# [root@dell etc]# cd sysconfig/ [root@dell sysconfig]# more network NETWORKING=yes HOSTNAME=dell [root@dell sysconfig]# cd networking [root@dell networking]# ls devices ifcfg-lo profiles [root@dell networking]# cd profiles [root@dell profiles]# ls default [root@dell profiles]# cd default/ [root@dell default]# ls hosts ifcfg-eth0 network resolv.conf [root@dell default]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 dell localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.2 box2 192.168.1.1 box1 [root@dell default]# more network HOSTNAME=dell [root@dell default]# more ifcfg-eth0 DEVICE=eth0 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes USERCTL=no PEERDNS=no TYPE=Ethernet BROADCAST=192.168.1.255 NETWORK=192.168.1.0 IPADDR=192.168.1.2 NETMASK=255.255.255.0 [root@dell default]# more resolv.conf [root@dell default]# [root@dell default]#

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NewsForge presents free OpenOffice.org training videos
by Keith Watson 15 Nov '05

15 Nov '05

http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/11/09/2044220 Regards, Keith ____________ Has anyone attained wisdom by pondering the experience of others? - Not since the world began, they must pass through the fire. - Norman Douglas

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Modem
by Bob Dove 15 Nov '05

15 Nov '05

Hi folks, I have a boxed hardly used fax modem that may do as a standby 'til summat better comes along. I don't have serial cable but the power brick is still with it. 14400 bps fax send and receive 14400 bps data. I might even be able to find the software (Delrina) for Win/Dos. let me know if any use... Cheers, BD.

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Timer-Based Power Management on Fedora
by Dan Hatton 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

I mentioned this in passing in a thread last week, so apologies to anyone who's heard it before: I'd like idle-timer-based power management on my FC4 machine, but can't get sleepd 1.2.14 to compile. Can anyone suggest how to make it work, please? The details: If I point my CPATH at the apm.h and acpi.h files provided by my kernel, running "make" in the sleepd directory fails with the series of messages cc -O2 -Wall -DACPI_APM -c -o sleepd.o sleepd.c In file included from sleepd.c:21: acpi.h:20: error: syntax error before ‘apm_info’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main_loop’: sleepd.c:132: error: ‘apm_info’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:132: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once sleepd.c:132: error: for each function it appears in.) sleepd.c:132: error: syntax error before ‘ai’ sleepd.c:177: error: ‘ai’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:179: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_read’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main’: sleepd.c:307: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_exists’ make: *** [sleepd.o] Error 1 whereas, if I point CPATH at the acpi.h and apm.h provided by sleepd, "make" fails with the slightly different series of messages cc -O2 -Wall -DACPI_APM -c -o sleepd.o sleepd.c In file included from ./apm.h:1, from ./apm.h:1, [repeated _many_times] from sleepd.c:20: ./apm.h:1:17: error: #include nested too deeply In file included from sleepd.c:21: acpi.h:20: error: syntax error before ‘apm_info’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main_loop’: sleepd.c:132: error: ‘apm_info’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:132: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once sleepd.c:132: error: for each function it appears in.) sleepd.c:132: error: syntax error before ‘ai’ sleepd.c:177: error: ‘ai’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:179: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_read’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main’: sleepd.c:307: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_exists’ make: *** [sleepd.o] Error 1 sleepd compiles out of the box on my Debian Testing machine, so it occurred to me to ftp the resulting binaries to where I want them. Unfortunately, once there, the sleepd binary refuses to run, with the error message sleepd: error while loading shared libraries: libapm.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory -- Thanks very much, Dan Hatton

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RE: [ALUG] Anyone got an old fashioned *thread hijack* *pcmcia* modemgoing spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Steve Engledow Sent: 14 November 2005 11:54 > > >Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not > >usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable > >transfer of funds? > > I have a 56k external modem avec serial connection in a box > somewhere. > I'd tell you the make etc but I can't remember. It's blue ;) > Sounds good :o) Don't care about make or model as long as it works with GNU/Linux. Regards, Keith ____________ Whatever you turn your back on gets you in the end.

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Anyone got an old fashioned external serial modem going spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

A friend of mine had her modem go kaput over the weekend. As her cash flow isn't the best in the world, she runs linux on an old spare parts system, hence the external modem. I've fixed her up with my old faithful modem for the time being but I'm having trouble getting a replacement. Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable transfer of funds? Regards, Keith ____________ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. - (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)

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RE: [ALUG] Re: Re: Anyone got an old fashioned external serial modem going spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Chris Green Sent: 14 November 2005 10:04 > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:32:50AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > > From: Chris Green Sent: 14 November 2005 09:30 > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:18:40AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > > > Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not > > > > usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable > > > > transfer of funds? > > > > > > > She hasn't got an ISA slot free has she? I have a 'real' ISA slot > > > modem - i.e. not a WinModem. > > > > Really, what chipset is it? > > > > Any problems getting it to run under Linux? > > > I think my original purpose in getting it was to run under > Linux, I can send you some more details when I get home this > evening if you like (I'm at work, modem is at home). > > It's free to a good home, I have no ISA machines running any > more. I can stick it in the post to you if you want. > I'm not sure if she has any ISA slots on her m/b. Need to check, but thanks for the offer, I might take you up on that depending on what else turns up. Cheers, Keith ____________ A good explanation: never explain anything. - Zen Saying

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RE: [ALUG] Re: Anyone got an old fashioned external serial modem goingspare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Chris Green Sent: 14 November 2005 09:30 > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:18:40AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not > > usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable > > transfer of funds? > > > She hasn't got an ISA slot free has she? I have a 'real' ISA > slot modem - i.e. not a WinModem. Really, what chipset is it? Any problems getting it to run under Linux? Regards, Keith

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RE: [ALUG] Anyone got an old fashioned *thread hijack* *pcmcia* modemgoing spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Adam Bower Sent: 14 November 2005 09:41 > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:18:40AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > (or alternatively, if you know how to make a Conexant MDC480 > modem work with Linux then let me know!) > Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WinModemConexantHSF?highlight=%28Conexant%29 WinModemConexantHSF - Ubuntu Wiki and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Conexant?highlight=%28Conexant%29 Conexant - Ubuntu Wiki they might help. Regards, Keith ____________ Man always dies before he is fully born. - Erich Fromm

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: Re: installing Debian
by Robert Grant (DEV) 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

Here are some experiences/thoughts from an ordinary 'user' who just wants a laptop on which to use office and other applications rather than any kind of developer work 1. I'd like to support the positive things said about the Sarge installer. My first Linux try was with Woody and it took me months to get X working at all. Although I'd read up in advance and knew all my hardware specs I somehow chose a 2.2 idepci kernel which I think dogged subsequent efforts including my later effort at an online upgrade to Sarge. When I tried a fresh install with a Sarge CD all went far more smoothly and I had a nice looking desktop (KDE) with very little real effort. Certainly more quickly than when I put XP on the same laptop. 2. Aptitude is wonderful. dselect under Woody was really hard to get into. With aptitude installing and managing packages is extremely easy. This gave me the confidence to bypass Tasksel at install time and build up from a fairly bare-bones text only system. 3. As Brett said in this thread already "99% of the battle is knowing where to look" and I agree. Debian is not 'hard' in itself but the documentation available online seems particularly challenging for the non-initiated. The more I learn the more I like the intuitive and accessible way the Debian system itself is laid out: but the more puzzled I get that nobody seems to have produced an entry level guide which would make working it out less of a groping in the dark experience. 4. The rise of Ubuntu has me unsure of which way to leap. On the one hand I am tempted by the idea of more up to date software than I have in Sarge. On the other I want to keep building on what I have learned about Debian. Once my confidence improves my plan was to try the approach of selectively pulling in packages from the testing/unstable repositaries. In particular I'd like the more recent versions of OO.org and Okle. Maybe someone with my low level of technical knowledge and 'user' orientation would be safer going for Ubuntu though? 5. Thanks to all contributors to this thread which is a timely one for me as I've got a new, unformatted 60G HD in my thinkpad now after the last one died. I am on the waiting list for a UEA copy of XP, which I think I need to install first, so have a few days to choose between Sarge and (K)Ubuntu. BTW, just to make the purists cringe, my plan is to put on XP then shrink the NTFS partition down and add ext3 ones for / and /home plus swap using Partition Magic. Rob Rob Grant Tutor in Economics School of Development Studies University of East Anglia NR4 7TJ +44(0)1603592324 r.grant(a)uea.ac.uk

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Hard Drives
by Bob Dove 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Hi Folks, Installation CDs and pre-installed O/S plus recovery disks. I have always installed from a full O/S disk. My daughter and several of the outlaws have bought systems with pre-installed O/S and recovery disks (Tiny and Acer). Initially, these boxes had Win95. Recovery on these machines was in fact a reformat and copying of a 'mirror' image and not a full version. I upgraded my sys to Win 98 and eventually 98SE (do you think I'd admit to upgrading the outlaws?) Currently, because Photoshop CS demanded it W2K (which is absolutely with no exceptions they flakiest O/S I've used - and I started with CP/M! Fond memory says W3.11 was the best. I now have two towers and two USB externals. The 'twin towers' each have two HDD. The reason for this is that initially a refusal to boot up and even acknowledge the presence of emergency repair disk in floppy drive or the installation CD in CD drive caused my local guru to pronounce the HDD dead. I bought and fitted new drive, reinstalled every thing and fitted (after setting jumpers) 'dead' drive as slave in the hopes of being able to recover data including a large number of scanned images. Lo and behold, the 'dead' drive was seen and all the data was there and could be accessed. So verily the dead drive was resurrected! The next time the 'C:' drive 'died' on me, it was another trip to PC World for another HDD and again installing and loading O/S. This time 'dead' drive went into one of those new fangled (at the time) external USB drive boxes where it remains. As I said - two boxes and now six HDDs later have lead me to believe that it is software (namely windoze) that is at fault, not the hardware! Possibly a viral infection could have caused it but who knows? Next failure will see a smaller drive installed as 'C:' as it will in fact only contain O/S and those programs that won't install anywhere else but C: Why smaller? It takes an age to scan for Virii or defrag big drives! Incidentally, the latest reformatting because windoze wouldn't boot resurrected a dormant Linux partition which the system labelled C: and windoze took itself off into a second partition it named F: I wonder how long before I have to repeat the exercise? Now come the question; with multiple hard drives installed, can Linux install and boot from a second hard drive D:? Having windoze and Linux in separate partitions on the same hard drive made me give up on Linux. Reading these mails - your comments re operating/installing Linux is absolutely frightening. A 'simple' installation CD that injects Linux onto a hard drive and which comes up with a desktop 'just like windoze' (or Mac O/S) is all 99% of PC owners want. We don't want to know about command lines - just icons on the desktop just like the original Digital Research GUI that all other O/S desktops have copied! Cheers, BD.

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Re: Hard Drives
by Robert Grant (DEV) 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Just a thought provoked by Ten's question/aside >There really is nothing inherently bad or unusable about consoles. > >As an aside, there's *got* to be some way to remove the fear of the console >for the average user. Whether it's consoles in funky anti-aliased truetype >fonts with images/music/css theming/whatever in a gnome/kde app, or even >turing-type rubber-fork "find me the mp3s I saved in july last year" type >stuff, if we could just crack this heinous culture that's built up against >using fast, expressive, intuitive typed commands, then people would REALLY be >moving to linux. I use two stats programs, SPSS and STATA, which have GUI interfaces that have grown over the years and versions on top of command line origins. Both preserve full access to command line flexibility and to different extents encourage users to use that interface as they gain experience. The key enabling factor is that in both systems it is very easy to access the commands generated by using menus and dialogues. STATA is particularly good at this, reporting the the plain-text command equivalent with every set of results, whether generated via console or point-and-squirt. There is also an on-screen history of commands in a separate window along with another showing available variables. Items can be grabbed from either source to construct new console entries. This works the other way too, with a CLI command that shows you the GUI way of issuing. When I introduce a class to the package I can just give them the true-and-pure commands and they have the security of knowing how to get back to a GUI method too. Come to think of it there must be many other models of GUI/CLI integration like this in various applications. I'm sure others on this list will know dozens. But has it been done in an OS yet, or could a desktop environment just superimpose this behaviour? Could something provide the user with a console window that is, for example, filled in with the appropriate mnt/ls and so on commands when they stick a disk in? Rob Rob Grant Tutor in Economics School of Development Studies University of East Anglia NR4 7TJ +44(0)1603592324 r.grant(a)uea.ac.uk

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GDM not shutting down
by Peter 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Sorry, in this question I got the details all wrong. What is not shutting down is dm, not gdm. It is however true that this shuts down fine with either xdm or kdm. And the other thing that is failing is nfs locking, not ntfs... Which is puzzling me a bit, not being terribly well informed, as I don't recall ever installing nfs. Or maybe Mandriva just does it? Sorry about that Peter

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Good Evening Everyone! New member here!
by rob page 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Well, I moved down to Norwich about 2 months ago from York, where I'd been doing a Computer Science degree, and I've started using Linux about 6 years ago, about 3 years ago started using it as my main OS. Hmmm, now for why i'm interested in Linux. Well, because its better.... :-), and the politics... and I can actually do decent programming on it, and when something goes wrong with it, the answer is just a google away, because it supports my USB OHCI PCI card, and my tulip network card (which win 2k doesn't), because it has xfce4 and many other reasons.... As for me, the main programming languages I use are C++ and java, I currently maintain a latex editor called AmyEdit [1] , written using gtkmm in C++, (end shameless plug). I'm also the current KBounce International Champion! [2] That's me, Hello! [1] http://amyedit.sf.net [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBounce#International_champion

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GDM not shutting down
by Peter 09 Nov '05

09 Nov '05

Hi, Can anyone suggest why GDM should not be able to be shut down when I logout and turn the machine off? XDM and KDM both do, just fine, but I prefer GDM but am a bit troubled by the failure. This is on Mandriva 2006, and its the logs that scroll by after you have closed down. The other thing that fails is something to do with NTFS locking, don't know if this is relevant. But it fails when using XDM and KDM also. Peter.

2 1

Anyone got some old 500MB-2GB hard drives they no longer require?
by Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. 08 Nov '05

08 Nov '05

I'm in the process of building a small Debian GNU/Linux based cluster using old machines. It's something I always been interested in doing. I've already got the boxes, some motherboard/cpus with Pentium chips on them, and the NICs. The only thing missing are the hard disks. Has anyone got one or more they no longer need? I've managed to build the cluster for free so far, and hope to finish it in the same manner. I'd prefer sizes between 500MB and 2GB. So, if you can help, please email me. Perhaps you could bring something along to the kit meeting at UEA on Sunday? -- Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. http://www.ashleyhowes.com "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day." - The Joker in Alan Moore's The Killing Joke

7 9

Re: Re: installing Debian
by Robert Grant (DEV) 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

Thanks Ted, Adam, Wayne and Tony for useful thoughts Ted, my blood ran cold when I read your warning about BIOS settings on the hd. Fortunately I remember going into BIOS since installing the new unformatted drive to make sure the CD was set as boot device- then running Partition Magic just to check the drive was functional as I want to leave feedback on ebay for the thing. I also booted Knoppix which is about all I can use with no hard drive at all, so thankfully the BIOS seems intact. Knoppix froze on me after about five minutes though, so maybe even this needs an hd to be present. I do seem to recall the XP installer mentioning a small area of disk as something like 'unused' or 'unformatted', only about 2-300 meg I think, when I installed it over the factory W98. Maybe this was where 98 had 'squirted' its recovery/hibernation info. I quite agree that this kind of behaviour, plus the absurdity of making recovery data available only on a device which will be dead if it is needed, is a pretty poor show. With a totally new hd any hidden diagnostic or system specific tools are lost now. I do plan one day to have a go with the "ThinkPad Configuration Tools for Linux" tpctl package that can give you such things as on-screen volume display, power management, trackpoint configuration etc. Details at http://tpctl.sourceforge.net/ if anyone is interested. Tony, though the windows labels for all your bits C:, F: etc. are not much use in linux for the reasons given, you should still be able to mount these as you please using device paths like /dev/hda1 etc. Apologies if this is blindingly obvious but I was pleased when I realised it! I had a FAT32 partition automounting rw as /exchange and an NTFS one as /xp where 'My Documents' was. The fact that NTFS write support in linux seems to be less than fully reliable is one reason why I didn't want to set up my XP partition with the Sarge d-i by the way, even if that option were offered. In fact I am thinking of putting 'My Documents' entirely on FAT32 when I reinstall so that everything is easily accessible from both OSs, unless there are compelling performance or reliability reasons not so to do. For example it would be nice to be able to access my mp3 library from both linux and XP. I reckon something like this will do hda1 8G NTFS XP C: or /bloat hda2 8G ext3 Sarge or Ubuntu / hda3 23G FAT32 'My Documents'E: or /xp hda4 20G ext3 /home hda5 1G swap (machine has 256M RAM) Best wishes, Rob Rob Grant Tutor in Economics School of Development Studies University of East Anglia NR4 7TJ +44(0)1603592324 r.grant(a)uea.ac.uk

3 2

Re: installing Debian
by Peter 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

> installing Debian is like being greased, and wrestling with an eel. This is completely mad. I have installed Debian and derivatives of Debian many times (on a little Dell that I bought for £50, specifically for the purpose of playing with distributions, and on a couple of other boxes, one a 200mhz MMX, one a home assembled Shuttle). Debian Pure (now another name) installed over the net or from a Debian DVD with no problems. Debian Sarge, from a magazine cover DVD booted and installed with no problems. Mepis installed with no problems. Ubuntu installed with no problems (though using it, the old version I tried a year ago, was a different matter). Knoppix has an install option - it just went in and worked. I have had some problems installing things. I couldn't get Dragonfly to work at all. I had problems with one of the BSDs, or at least, problems figuring out how to get to a proper desktop. I've had temporary difficulties with Slackware, largely owing to the lack of a 'go back' option at various critical points. I had trouble with Mandrake 10.x on some machines. The first issue of elive wouldn't work properly. I never could get Woody to work. So, its not that I can do everything perfectly and easily, and I'm not at all expert in this stuff, but recent Debians are SIMPLY NOT A PROBLEM. Peter

10 26

2nd Thursday Norwich Meet : Reindeer, Dereham Road
by Jonathan McDowell 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

The monthly "Second Thursday" ALUG Norwich Pub Meet is this Thursday, 10th November. It's at the Reindeer pub on the Dereham Road, just opposite the City Gate. We'll be there from 8pm-ish, though there may be a few people there earlier. Topics for discussion will no doubt be as varied as ever. The Reindeer has a reasonable selection of beer as well as decent coffee (with biscuits, if you're lucky). Directions to the Reindeer can be found at: http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/reindeer.html Pictures of some of the regulars, and irregulars, and, well, just some pictures of people that might or might not turn up are available from: http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2004-08-ALUG/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2005-01-ALUG-Xmas/ http://the.earth.li/~noodles/stilvoid-alug/mp20050811/ Which should hopefully aid those of you wondering who to look out for. We're /normally/ just to the left of the main entrance, though last time we ended up at the far end of the pub beside the pool table. J. -- 101 things you can't have too much of : 41 - Tea.

1 0

Using mailsync with ssh
by Chris Green 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

Having looked into this I have come to the following conclusion. Mailsync only works 'with ssh' to a remote IMAP server, I'm pretty sure it can't access an ordinary mbox (or other) hierarchy on a remote machine by using ssh. I *think* the example in the examples documentation is just that, accessing a remote mh mailbox system which happens to have an IMAP server using the mh hierarchy. If anyone can point me to some documentation and/or help suggesting otherwise then I'd be very pleased to know about it. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

2 1

Dual Head on Nvidia
by Wayne Stallwood 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

I am just about to order a second 17" TFT to match my existing one, I noticed where I was doing some DVD Authoring last week that I need more screen estate. I would like to stay with Nvidia cards if at all possible, partly because I need good hardware 3D on at least one screen and partly because I know where I can grab a really good dualhead Nvidia card really cheap. Not having done this before I would like to know how it all works before I commit to the extra screen. How for example do the virtual desktops interact with dual head, Do I used the desktop pager in the normal way and choose which display has which desktop ? How does the framebuffer work, does this only work on the first screen ? Has anyone used VMware on a dual head setup, what happens if you set a VM to fullscreen ? Does it go fullscreen on one of the monitors and do you have any choice about which screen that is ? When I was googling about I saw loads of references to xinerama and twinview and other sites that just said to add the second display to the xconfig file. What method should I use to get the behaviour(s) above ?

5 7

Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

1 0

Tiff images on a Sharp SL-C3100
by Barry Samuels 06 Nov '05

06 Nov '05

I have just bought an SL-C3100 and one of the things I'd like to use it for is viewing images, from my camera, in the field. The images are 12MB Tiff files and most of the Zaurus software can't cope with Tiff so I'd like to shrink and convert to Jpeg. I've put an Arm binary of ImageMagick 'convert' onto the Zaurus and have installed the libtiff package but if I try to use 'convert' I get a message 'Libtiff is not available'. Can anyone suggest what might cause this? -- Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

3 10

Re: MFD
by Ten 06 Nov '05

06 Nov '05

Hi there folks. I'm in the process of looking at budget MFDs (the all-in-one printer/scanner/tea-strainer deelies for anyone not familiar with the acronym) for myself and the better half and wondered whether anyone here had positive/negative experiences to share. "Compatibility" with your usual GNU/Linux suspects is a must in terms of both systems and utilities - are there serious gotchas anyone here knows about? Considerations are: 1. Low cost 2. Print/scan/copy at reasonable quality 3. PictBridge and/or Bluetooth for computerless use with digital cameras. Groovy gravy would be: 1. Bluetooth for use with phones etc., but I don't personally need computerless printing, so it's less of a consideration). 2. Ability to handle 35mm film (truly unnecessary) I'd appreciate ideas/gotchas. Cheers, -- Ten

2 1

How to remove empty maildir mailboxes?
by Chris Green 06 Nov '05

06 Nov '05

This is (distantly) related to my previous question, they're both results of my migration from mbox to maildir. I'm doing that so I can rsync my mail folder hierarchy from the system where I actually read my mail to my home system without losing old mails. So, I want to write a utility that can run as a cron job and, maybe, on demand, that will saerch down my mail hierarchy for empty maildir mailboxes and delete them. This involves finding any directory that has empty cur, tmp, and new subdirectories and deleting it. I can see all sorts of horribly clumsy ways of doing it but not any really neat way. Any quick solutions anyone? Amazingly a Google search turned up nothing useful at all, surely there must be a need for a utility like this. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

5 13

RE: [ALUG] Installing Debian
by Keith Watson 06 Nov '05

06 Nov '05

> From: Anthony Anson > > I've just had an attempt at installing Woody, but fell at, if > not the first hurdle, the next one. > I'd strongly advise installing a Ubuntu distro (latest is 5.10 Breezy Badger) if you want to try out Debian. I'm a dedicated Debianite and also a total convert to Ubuntu after setting up a dial-up PC for a non PC literate friend a couple of months back (Quote: "Wow this is as good as Windows!!"** :-> ) I'm sure someone on the list has some of the latest Ubuntu Live+Install CD packs (I've got some of the previous 5.04 Hoary Hedgehog packs). IMO the install is a dream. Regards, Keith ____________ Though the forest is dense, yet water flows through it freely. - Zen Saying ** recent quote after another acquaintance was bemoaning getting assorted viruses and rogue diallers over the past year, "Oh!, I don't get those, I run Linux" (accompanied by a superior grin) [however I did enable their firewall]

9 28

Installing Debian
by Peter 05 Nov '05

05 Nov '05

I would get Mepis. Assuming you don't mind KDE. Installation is very simple indeed, and after 45 minutes, there you have it, a working Debian based installation with most of what you'll need, and Synaptic for the rest. And you get to try it out from the CD first, to make sure you like it, before going to the trouble of installing. I did try Ubuntu, an earlier version, and didn't like it one bit. It may have improved, but the one I tried, last Christmas, was an utter dog. So at least if you try Ubuntu, make sure its the latest version. I also failed, a long time ago, to get Woody in, no longer recall exactly why, but the latest version is pretty straightforward. Though not as simple as Mepis. Peter

4 5

Installing Debian
by Anthony Anson 05 Nov '05

05 Nov '05

I've just had an attempt at installing Woody, but fell at, if not the first hurdle, the next one. With 640 MB of memory I didn't think a swap partition was necessary so I skipped that. (Anyone disagree?) Formatting the drive was not what you would call intuitive, though. I 'deleted' [1] all the existing partitions on hda, couldn't print the 'help' menu [2], found that using the command letters didn't do anything except return me to the formatting page, and I could find no way of implementing the changes I had made. I understand that the latest version is a lot more user-friendly. [1] altered the hda1 FAT32; hda2 FAT16; hda3 Fat16 to a single unformatted partition awaiting the command to format. [2] the line at the bottom which said 'print help' or something similar had a cursor at the end of it, but I couldn't find any way of moving it or highlighting the lot, or getting it to work. So I removed the CD and shut down. I have a feeling that this is going to be a long job... -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

5 10

RE: [ALUG] ACPI on ThinkPad
by Keith Watson 04 Nov '05

04 Nov '05

> From: Dan Hatton Sent: 04 November 2005 00:39 > > I'm trying to set up ACPI power management, but I can't get > my system to resume from suspend-to-RAM; does anyone have any > idea how to proceed, please? > > The details: the system is Fedora core 4, on an IBM ThinkPad, > with a home-compiled 2.6.14 kernel (but the result is much > the same with a Fedora stock 2.6.13 kernel.) > > After I suspend with a (bash) script (cobbled together from > bits of advice and scripts on the WWW,) run in an xterm, > whose functional part > is: > > rmmod uhci_hcd > rmmod ehci_hcd > echo `fgconsole` > /var/cache/acpi/vt > chvt 8 > echo -n "auto_disable" > /proc/acpi/ibm/video echo -n "mem" > > /sys/power/state echo -n "auto_enable" > /proc/acpi/ibm/video > chvt `cat /var/cache/acpi/vt` rm -f /var/cache/acpi/vt > modprobe uhci_hcd modprobe ehci_hcd > > then resume by pressing the power button, the system comes > back, and shows me my xsession, but then hangs when trying to > run any commands. > > When I run the script from the console, then resume by > pressing the power button, the system dies (after a long-ish > pause) with various error messages, in which there are > references to "spinlock recursion," "spinlock lockup," and > repeatedly to "ATA Timeout." > Dan, something of an oblique answer I'm afraid but it might point you in the direction of some useful resources. I've recently been setting up my work HP nx9105 as a dual boot WinXP / Ubuntu system. My main problem was USB not working. This turned out to be ACPI related because of a BIOS bug. (Fix was to turn off ACPI and all my USB devices snapped into use :o) ) My point is that the Ubuntu Wiki and forums have a lot of discussion related to laptops and all things ACPI which may provide some ideas about ways you can figure out a solution. Regards, Keith ____________ COMMERCE, n. - A kind of transaction in which A plunders from B the goods of C, and for compensation B picks the pocket of D of money belonging to E. - Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

2 1

ACPI on ThinkPad
by Dan Hatton 04 Nov '05

04 Nov '05

I'm trying to set up ACPI power management, but I can't get my system to resume from suspend-to-RAM; does anyone have any idea how to proceed, please? The details: the system is Fedora core 4, on an IBM ThinkPad, with a home-compiled 2.6.14 kernel (but the result is much the same with a Fedora stock 2.6.13 kernel.) After I suspend with a (bash) script (cobbled together from bits of advice and scripts on the WWW,) run in an xterm, whose functional part is: rmmod uhci_hcd rmmod ehci_hcd echo `fgconsole` > /var/cache/acpi/vt chvt 8 echo -n "auto_disable" > /proc/acpi/ibm/video echo -n "mem" > /sys/power/state echo -n "auto_enable" > /proc/acpi/ibm/video chvt `cat /var/cache/acpi/vt` rm -f /var/cache/acpi/vt modprobe uhci_hcd modprobe ehci_hcd then resume by pressing the power button, the system comes back, and shows me my xsession, but then hangs when trying to run any commands. When I run the script from the console, then resume by pressing the power button, the system dies (after a long-ish pause) with various error messages, in which there are references to "spinlock recursion," "spinlock lockup," and repeatedly to "ATA Timeout." -- Thanks, Dan Hatton <http://www.bib.hatton.btinternet.co.uk/dan/>

1 0

Little wild card/scripting problem
by Chris Green 03 Nov '05

03 Nov '05

Can anyone come up with an easy solution for the following? I can invent all sorts of multi-line ways of doing it but I can't think of a simple one-liner. I have (lots of) directories with files with names like the following in them:- 1130938547.25791_1.server:2,RS 1130938547.25791_3.server:2,RS 1130938547.25791_5.server:2,RS 1130940325.30327_1.server:2,RS 1130940325.30327_3.server:2,RS 1130940325.30327_5.server:2,RS 1130945401.24201_1.halkidiki:2,RS 1130945401.24201_3.halkidiki:2,RS 1130945401.24201_5.halkidiki:2,RS I want to run a shell script for loop on the files in these directories, it's easy enough to use find to recursively run through all the directories, the issue occurs when I do:- for i in * do # lots of clever (?) things done The 'for i in *' means that the files are processed in the order shown above with the 'server' files before the 'halkidiki' ones. I want to *guarantee* that the 'halkidiki' ones come first, can anyone come up with a way of doing this? for i in *halkidiki* *server* Doesn't work because not all the directories have both server and halkidiki files. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

2 2

Cups printing
by Andy Trevor 03 Nov '05

03 Nov '05

Is there anyone out and about that really understands Cups network printing ? If so please contact me on or off list Thanks in advance -- Regards Andy Trevor Technical Director Cutter Project Limited 07840988311 http:www.cutterproject.co.uk

3 3

Linux/OSS conference at UEA
by Karamoon 02 Nov '05

02 Nov '05

Is anyone interested in a Linux/OSS conference at UEA? It should be in term time so we can get some students involved. It would essentially be a day of talks and possibly some workshops aimed at people who are new to linux and oss. A talk on installing and using Ubuntu would be great as I got 100 Ubuntu packs this morning. Positive comments and suggestions our welcome. Matthew __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

3 2

UEA ALUG society
by Karamoon 02 Nov '05

02 Nov '05

At the recent kitmeet several people(5) expressed interest in starting an ALUG society at Norwich UEA. Starting a UEA society involves getting 30 people to pay £3 each. The society would then be given a grantEli has suggested the name "ALUG/U" for the group. If anyone would be interested in a UEA ALUG society, or has any comments/suggestions, I would be grateful if they could let me know. Thanks for your time and consideration, Matthew(Karamoon) __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

1 0

Job specs to make you smile
by Guy Eastwood 02 Nov '05

02 Nov '05

Here's the result of a jobspec work asked me for a while back. I didn't give the print guys the final copy so the typo's aren't mine yet.. the wording... well, see what you think ;o) We got two really good members of staff added to tech dept as a result too! http://surefyre.com/surefyreold/surefyre_images/nomcse.png (No the position isn't open still) I've since come across people all over the place that have seen/heard of this ad LOL! Is weird reading the ad again, the jobspec is so much more demanding now. G

13 17

Advice required on implementing, configuring and managing a large number (> 500) of networked desktops
by Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. 01 Nov '05

01 Nov '05

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice and hints on how to go about installing and managing a large group of desktop machines, with shared file stores and resources such as applications, printers, etc. By large, I mean more than 500 machines. Think of a large university lab or internet cafe, where people can login to any machine, do their 'work', access their files independent of terminal used, etc. Based on my knowledge so far, under Debian GNU/Linux, the actual installation of all the machines is relatively straight-forward. Once I have setup the roles and machine groupings (based on tasks and application needs), I can use the FAI (Fully Automated Installer) which hold master 'settings' to assign each machine to a group and watch the install take place. As and when machines fail, I can just configure a new one for a specific group and then let it install and put it on the network. My confusion comes when I want to work out how to get central authentication, shared file stores, and where the line should be drawn for local/network storing of applications, files, etc. There is also the problem of scaling to 500+ machines. I know this is possible, as I used to see it in action at UEA when I studied in SYS. xdm used to talk to something (LDAP?) before allowing login. The directory of users/passwords was shared between nearly all machines so you could login to any machine using your assigned userid. So: 1) How do I do central authentication? 2) Could I use NFS for shared file access with user /home being mounted as r/w at login, or would this cause a denial of service attack on the server? Are there more scalable alternatives with intermediate caching, etc? 3) Will > 500 desktops require more than one server for shared file access? What are the preferred replication procedures in this case? 4) What the best way to network that many machines? I can run switches and bridges between the machines. Should I load-balance or shape the traffic in some way to ensure fair and fast access to the shared file store? How do I check for network saturation other than looking at blinking coloured lights :) 5) Security. I would assume standard unix security would stop one user fiddling with another's files, but how does that work over a network file store? 6) Am I correct to assume that it is best to have applications installed locally on the machines given the number of machines? 7) Is there a way to sandbox the user, so they don't enter parts of the system they aren't supposed to? I know that there is the normal root access restriction, but what about forcing them to use their network file store, rather than leaving stuff in /tmp. I know quite a bit of this depends on what the machines will be actually used for. At present, I am looking for more general advice from people who have done this before to help guide my research into this topic. In fact, I am also interested on how this would work on non-linux machines, e.g. Windows and Macs. Do these need to run separatedly, or could non-Linux based machines authenticate against a shared profile directory? I know there are many large windows based deployments. For example the Norfolk Library Services runs one for internet and application access. In fact, they seems to run a reduced version of Windows that limits what the user can and can't do. Does anyone know how that actually works? To keep this on topic, please email me off-list for non-linux based discussions. -- Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. http://www.ashleyhowes.com "The philosophers have only interpreted the world in different ways; the point is to change it." - Karl Marx

5 4

Linux.com article: Hardware emulation with QEMU
by Keith Watson 01 Nov '05

01 Nov '05

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=05/10/24/1845248 Regards, Keith ____________ You can never turn your back on reality, it surrounds you. - Stanislaw J. Lec

2 1

Re: [ALUG] Hunt the Swap Hog
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 01 Nov '05

01 Nov '05

On 01-Nov-05 Maz Walker wrote: > On 11/1/05, Ted Harding <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> wrote: >> >> What might be the best way to find out what could be >> hogging swap-space? > > > Hi Ted > > Try running top and then press the f key to add another field, > then the p key to add the swap size. You can change the sort > order of top on the latest versions, press h for help to see > if yours can do that. Hope that helps, > Maz. Thanks, yes it does a bit! Unfortunately swap is not one of the variables I can sort on in my 'top'. A:age M:resident memory usage N:pid T:time (or cumulative time) P:CPU usage only! Tried getting 'ps' to show me, but it's confusing and I'm not sure whether it did or not. Cheers, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 01-Nov-05 Time: 20:44:26 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

1 0

Hunt the Swap Hog
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 01 Nov '05

01 Nov '05

What might be the best way to find out what could be hogging swap-space? Best wishes to all, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 01-Nov-05 Time: 19:29:43 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

1 0

RE: [ALUG] Help for UEA student
by Keith Watson 01 Nov '05

01 Nov '05

> Quoting Laurie Brown < >: > > > I'm pretty sure one or two subscribers to this list work > at/in UEA... > > A friend of mine's daughter has just started there and has been > > obliged to put McAfee on her (XP Pro) laptop. The problem is, > > everytime she joins the UEA net, the machine slows to a > crawl. Would > > anyone be so kind as to take a look at it for her please? > > > > Cheers, Laurie. > > From: Simon Sent: 31 October 2005 16:59 > > This is true and also some-what annoying. Windows users > *have* to install McAfee anti-virus 8 before they can connect > to the network. A friend of mine had to uninstall McAfee 10 - > seems silly but I suppose it's a good thing in a way. I have > McAfee on my Windows 2000 installation, I haven't noticed > that it slows down. The only thing I would put it down to, > would be scanning all the files on the disc for virii which > would slow the machine down but you can't really stop it doing that. > Yes, we use McAfee here at work and it seems to run ok on my HP laptop (Win XP Pro). You do get an initial hit as it insists on doing a full scan of all the local disks which does hammer the machine at first. It may be worth her just starting up and leaving it for a couple of hours (days?). Other than that, Simon may be right in suspecting something else that's doing a lot of disk i/o, that may also cause McAfee to do a lot of work if it involves disk writes. I'm going to shut up now as this is way of topic for an ALUG post - sorry folks! Regards, Keith ____________ The shortest answer is doing. - George Herbert

3 2

Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 31 Oct '05

31 Oct '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

1 0

PHP / MySQL web developer Job
by David Reynolds 30 Oct '05

30 Oct '05

Hi, I've been asked to post this job application here, in case anyone is interested: Job Type: Permanent Job Title: PHP MySQL Website Developer Location: North Norwich, Norfolk Salary: Negotiable Details: We are looking for a team player to join our development team. We have an excellent track record in delivering a diverse range of web projects to small and medium sized business across Norfolk. Ideally you will have commercial experience developing websites using PHP and MySQL preferably in a Linux environment. Ideally you'll also have an ability to create graphic designs for a web environment. Please forward a covering letter and CV to paul(a)paston.co.uk Cheers, David -- David Reynolds david(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk

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/var/log/lastlog
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 30 Oct '05

30 Oct '05

Hi Folks, It's spring-clean time again ... Been recovering disk space occupied by stuff I don't really want to know about. In particular, /var/log/lastlog is 19MB in size, but the output of 'lastlog' is 2225 bytes on 35 lines, telling me *ALL About the Very Last Time Each User Logged In*.[1] Most of these are, of course "pseudo" users like bin daemon adm lp sync shutdown halt mail news uucp operator games gopher ftp rpm vcsa nscd sshd rpc rpcuser nfsnobody mailnull smmsp pcap apache xfs named ntp gdm who never log in anyway! So that's 19136220/35 = 546749 bytes or half a MB for each "user", and from inspection nearly all of that is bytes with value "00"! (Indeed it gzips down to 18668 bytes, i.e. 1/1000). Now I can use an extra 19MB of space on that partition (whose free space varies from near-0 to about 400MB depending on what I'm up to), so I'm feeling mean about 19MB devoted to totally boring info. Hence I'm wondering (a) what's the best way to suppress this lastlog stuff; (b) would it traumatise the system to suppress it? Thanks for any comments! Best wishes to all, Ted. [1]. E.g. ftp **Never logged in** ted pts/12 brandy Sun Oct 30 10:09:37 +0000 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 30-Oct-05 Time: 10:41:23 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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Penguins
by Anthony Anson 30 Oct '05

30 Oct '05

It has been reported that penguins can get avian 'flu as well: Now read on - nicked from a newsgroup: H5N1 BIRD FLU BELIEVED TO BE FIRST VIRUS UNABLE TO SPREAD THROUGH MICROSOFT OUTLOOK Researchers Shocked to Finally Find Virus That Email App Doesn't Like Atlanta, Ga. Scientists at the Center for Disease Control and Symantec's AntiVirus Research Center today confirmed that H5N1 bird flu cannot be spread by Microsoft's Outlook email application, believed to be the first time the program has ever failed to propagate a major virus. "Frankly, we've never heard of a virus that couldn't spread through Microsoft Outlook, so our findings were, to say the least, unexpected," said Clive Sarnow, director of the CDC's infectious disease unit. The study was immediately hailed by British officials, who said it will save millions of pounds. "Up until now we have, quite naturally, assumed that bird flu was spread by Microsoft Outlook," said Sir Liam Donaldson, Britain's Chief Medical Officer. "By eliminating it, we can focus our resources elsewhere." However, researchers in Romania, where bird flu has recently appeared, said they are not yet prepared to disqualify Outlook, which has been the progenitor of viruses such as "I Love You," "Bubbleboy," "Anna Kournikova," and "Naked Wife," to name but a few. Said Andrei Niculescu, director of the Molecular Virology Lab at Bucharest University: "It's not that we don't trust the research, it's just that as scientists, we are trained to be sceptical of any finding that flies in the face of established truth. And this one flies in the face like a blind drunk sparrow." Executives at Microsoft, meanwhile, were equally sceptical, insisting that Outlook's patented Virus Transfer Protocol (VTP) has proven virtually pervious to any virus. The company, however, will issue a free VTP patch if it turns out the application is not vulnerable to bird flu. Such an admission would be embarrassing for the software giant, but Symantec virologist Ariel Kologne insisted that no one is more humiliated by the study than she is. "Only last week, I had a reporter ask if the bird flu spreads through Microsoft Outlook, and I told him, 'Doesn't everything?'" she recalled. "Who would've thought?" -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Southern kit meet - any takers?
by Chris Green 28 Oct '05

28 Oct '05

It was suggested a little while ago that we might have a 'southern' kit meet, somewhere near Ipswich for example. Is there much support for this idea? E.g. how many people would actually come? Assuming that there aren't 500 people coming I could host it if the location was deemed suitable. I'm just about equidistant from Ipswich, Felixstowe and Woodbridge and very easy to get to from the A14, as long as you don't mind narrow lanes. Personally I'd prefer an evening rather than week-end as daylight is a precious resource needed for working outside. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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RE: [ALUG] PHP / MySQL web developer Job
by Keith Watson 28 Oct '05

28 Oct '05

> From: MJ Ray Sent: 28 October 2005 14:19 > > David Reynolds <david(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk> > > I've been asked to post this job application here, in case anyone is > > interested: > > Please send job adverts to linuxjobs. You can find it at > http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs > or linked from the FAQ. As a list subscriber I am quite happy for local people to post job vacancies for linux related local jobs here. Of course it's in their own interest for them to cross post to linuxjobs also. Regards, Keith ____________ All that is gold does not glitter; nor all those that wander are lost. - J.R.R. Tolkien

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RE: [ALUG] Penguins
by Keith Watson 28 Oct '05

28 Oct '05

> From: Anthony Anson > > The message > <63F7A21F1CA18143AFDBF28E2A7D6BBA02667C7D(a)endor.kewill-europe.com> > from "Keith Watson" <keith.watson(a)kewill.com> contains these words: > > > I definitely would not mix Lemsip and whiskey. Lemsip and brandy is > > better but I would recommend that you leave off the Lemsip and just > > keep taking the brandy (preferably French and over 10 years old :o). > > Expensive, yes, but after the 3rd glass who cares!! > > Make the first two glasses 50 year old Grand Armagnac, after > that you can guzzle cheapo - you'll hardly know the difference. > I'll drink to that! :o) Regards, Keith ____________ Everything that can be invented already has been. - This statement was released in 1899 by the U.S. Patent Office. - If these 'experts' ran the world we would still be sitting in the dark.

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RE: [ALUG] Penguins
by Keith Watson 28 Oct '05

28 Oct '05

> From: Wayne Stallwood Sent: 27 October 2005 18:48 > > (Before anyone asks...no I don't have bird flu, I have Man > Flu which is of course at least a thousand times worse) > I doubt that birds see it that way! :o) > On a related note, do you think it is safe to mix lemsip and Whisky ? > Doesn't specifically say you can't on the packet....or am I > better of drinking one after the other ? > I definitely would not mix Lemsip and whiskey. Lemsip and brandy is better but I would recommend that you leave off the Lemsip and just keep taking the brandy (preferably French and over 10 years old :o). Expensive, yes, but after the 3rd glass who cares!! Regards, Keith ____________ Knowledge is learning something every day. - Wisdom is letting go of something every day. - Zen Saying

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anyone got a kit-meet report?
by Nick Atkins 28 Oct '05

28 Oct '05

Would anyone be able to report on how successful your kit-meet was? I'd love to have made it but couldn't. I'd be interested to know how it went, how many turned up, how long was spent, were there any interesting moments where kit was saved from the trash can, any new inventions take flight, did you enjoy it, what would you do differently next time? etc. etc. I have never done anything like this before and it struck me that if you were meeting quite late then it would be midnight before you knew it, but then maybe you worked through the night? I very much look forward to any contributions, Nick Atkins, South Norfolk

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RE: Routing puzzle [solved]
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 27 Oct '05

27 Oct '05

Thanks to a number of people -- Bob Franklin, Geoff ("IT"), Simon Hobson, John Logsdon (also several private talks), on linux-users; Adam Allen, Guy Eastwood, Jim Rippon, MJ Ray, Wayne Stallwood, "Ten", Maz Walker, Keith Watson, on ALUG; it is now done! As more than a few pointed out, the trick (and I hope this solution will be useful to others in the same situation) is that the ADSL router needs to know how to talk back to the originating internal network. So it needs to have a static route to this configured on the router itself. To make it explicit: A: 192.168.0.1 eth0 default gateway -> C = 192.168.0.6 B: 192.168.0.7 eth0 default gateway -> C = 192.168.0.6 C: 192.168.0.6 eth0 default gateway -> ADSL = 192.168.1.1 C: 192.168.1.3 eth1 ADSL: Own address = 192.168.1.1, expects to be talking to 192.168.1.3 Now the following is at least partially specific to the BT Voyager 205 ADSL Router, since it refers to details of its Web interface config pages accessed via http://192.168.1.1 1. Go into "Advanced" & login as administrator 2. Go to "IP Routing" -> "IP Route" and then you see an "IP Address Table" (slightly pruned). Destn Netmask NextHop IFName RtType RtOrigin 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 62.3.82.17 ppp-0 Indirect Dynamic 62.3.82.17 255.255.255.255 xx.yy.zz.pqr ppp-0 Direct Dynamic xx.yy.zz.pqr 255.255.255.255 127.0.0.1 lo-0 Direct Dynamic 127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 127.0.0.1 lo-0 Direct Dynamic 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.1.1 eth-0 Direct Dynamic 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.255 127.0.0.1 lo-0 Direct Dynamic 192.168.1.2 255.255.255.255 127.0.0.1 lo-0 Direct Dynamic 212.23.3.11 255.255.255.255 62.3.82.17 ppp-0 Indirect Dynamic 212.23.6.35 255.255.255.255 62.3.82.17 ppp-0 Indirect Dynamic (where "xx.yy.zz.pqr" is my "public" Zen IP addressi, and 62.3.82.17 is Zen's gateway for this connection. The "212..." addresses are Zen nameservers.) 192.168.1.1 is the router's internal ethernet interface, and 192.168.1.2 is its USB interface. It looks to 192.168.1.{3,4,5,...} for outside connections via ETH/USB and in fact I set up C's eth1 to be 192.168.1.3 which works fine. So as we can see there is of course nothing to with with 192.168.0.0 in there. At this stage there is an "Add" button at the bottom which brings up a form for entering the details of a new route. So I entered "192.168.0.0" for Destinatiom, left "255.255.255.0" as it was for the Netmask, and entered "192.158.1.3" (the address of eth1 as seen from machine C) as the "Gateway/NextHop". This resulted in the following line: 192.168.0.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.1.3 eth-0 Indirect Local appearing in the abpve table, just above the "192.168.1.0" line. Click "Apply" and then "Close" on the subsequent window, and it's done! Thanks to all who joined in, and get me pointingin the right direction. Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 27-Oct-05 Time: 11:50:41 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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RE: [ALUG] Routing puzzle
by Keith Watson 27 Oct '05

27 Oct '05

Hi Ted, seems to me that you need to end up with a routing table on A or C that looks like this; Routing table for C = 192.168.0.7 (similar for A = 192.168.0.1): ---------------------------------------------------------------- Destination Gateway Genmask Flags (blah) Iface 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U (blah) lo 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U (blah) eth0 192.168.1.1 192.168.0.6 255.255.255.0 UG (blah) eth0 <====== new entry default 192.168.0.6 0.0.0.0 UG (blah) eth0 so that A & C know to route everything for 192.168.1.1 via B (192.168.0.6) (though I would have thought that the default entry would pick this up!!) so try something like route add 192.168.1.1 gw 192.168.0.6 i.e. explicitly tell the box that traffic for 192.168.1.1 is to be routed via B. Regards, Keith ____________ Old CM people never die, they just get archived and can be reproduced at any time.

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Routing puzzle
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 27 Oct '05

27 Oct '05

Hi Folks, I have a bit of a conundrum. Maybe there's just some simple trick I'm missing. Sorry for the lengthy background below! I've been happily running a dialup connection to the outside world on my 3-4 machine home LAN. In this, one machine has the modem and does the dialup, and the others have a default route which points to that machine. This has no default route in general, but when kppp completes the dialup connection it installs one via ppp0, and deletes it when kppp closes down. This works fine: all the other machines can find any address outside when this machine has its default ppp0 route up. Now I finally have ADSL broadband as well. This connects via a Voyager 205 ADSL modem. This has IP address 192.168.1.1. Here the situation is that, if I put a second NIC in any of the machines as eth1, give it IP address 192.168.1.3 (since this is the first in line of IP addresses which the modem gives out) and also manually install a default route to the net 192.168.1.0 via eth1, then from that machine I can also readily access the outside world. However, I have not managed to configure the machines so as to route through the ADSL machine via its eth1 in a similar way to ppp0. Say machine C has the ADSL modem on eth1, and machines A, B and C are linked over a network on eth0 for each. The C can see the Net, while A and B can not. Here is the outline of the configuration. A 192.168.0.1 eth0 B 192.168.0.7 eth0 C 192.168.0.6 eth0 192.168.2.0 vmnet1 [bridging network for VMWare] 192.168.1.3 eth1 --> 192.168.1.1 [ADSL modem/router] xxx.yyy.x.w ppp0 [when dialled up, ISP's dynamic IP] The other side of the ADSL router gets a fixed IP from the ISP, but I never need to see this. Now for what happens when not using ADSL, just dialup. [1] 'route' for A gives ----------------------- 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 555 eth0 loopback * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 11 lo default C 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 19 eth0 [2] 'route for B gives ---------------------- 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default Co 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 19 eth0 [3] 'route' for C, when not dialled up, gives --------------------------------------------- Destination Gateway Genmask Flags ... Iface 192.168.2.0 * 255.255.255.0 U ... vmnet1 192.168.1.0 * 255.255.255.0 U ... eth1 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U ... eth0 [4] and, when C has dialled up ------------------------------ imsnet-cl10-hg1 * 255.255.255.255 UH ... ppp0 192.168.2.0 * 255.255.255.0 U ... vmnet1 192.168.1.0 * 255.255.255.0 U ... eth1 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U ... eth0 default msnet-cl10-hg1 0. 0. 0.0 UG ... ppp0 In this configuration, as described above, all three machines can reach the Net without problems, routing through ppp0 on C. Now, with the ADSL router in place on C, I make the change analagous to [3]->[4] above, by adding the route to the ADSL 192.168.1.1 and the default route to the same on eth1. But this does not work. While C has no problems seeing the net, beither A nor B can. I feel stumped here, but -- as I say -- there's undoubtedly something simple I;ve overlooked. Comments and suggestions most welcom! Best wishes to all, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 25-Oct-05 Time: 18:54:56 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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RE: [ALUG] Routing puzzle
by Keith Watson 26 Oct '05

26 Oct '05

> From: Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk Sent: 26 October 2005 13:11 > > 5. I now add a default gateway to B > > route add -net default gw 192.168.1.1 > > (this being the IP address of the router itself) and with this > setup I can access the web quite freely from machine B. > > 6. The other two machines (A and C) each have default gateway B. > > 7. However, from neither of the other machines can I access > the web at all. > > 8. This contrasts, however, with the behaviour when B is used > to dial-up using an ordinary phone modem. Kppp does the > business, and when it's done there's a default route on B > via PPP through interface ppp0 to the outside world. > > With this, and default routes on A and C as above, unchanged, > all 3 machines can access the web freely. > Hi Ted, I'm coming into this thread a bit late (and someone may have already suggested this) but have you tried route add -net default gw 192.168.1.1 on machines A & C? Regards, Keith ____________ BAROMETER, n. - An ingenious instrument which indicates what kind of weather we are having. - Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

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OpenOffice and mdb files
by MJ Ray 26 Oct '05

26 Oct '05

A kind soul has posted me some mdb files to look at. I've had a look at the "Most FAQ" on www.openoffice.org and it seems to suggest that I can use them from OpenOffice by loading them into Microsoft Access. Obviously, that's slower and fiddlier for me. Do you know any other ways of getting useful information out of them? Thanks, -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask

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Web site designs
by MJ Ray 26 Oct '05

26 Oct '05

There's the designs on Brett's page at http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/alug/retheme-engine/ and a slightly updated one of mine at http://mjr.towers.org.uk/comp/alugtalk/ -- any others I've missed, or shall we move on? Thanks, -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask

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