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Re: Microsoft FUD
by John Seago 22 Jun '01

22 Jun '01

Having read the comments on the Microsoft 'Press Release', May I make a comment? It appears to me that the way to deal with such matters is, as the Americans put it, 'not to get mad but to get even', the way to combat such propaganda is to counter it in public, not to execrate it in private. Promotion of an operating system with which you are all so obviously involved will do more good than venting your ire to each other. I finally took the plunge having read many of the 'Linux' web sites and installed a linux operating system on my computer. At the same time I managed to convince my daughter's boyfriend to do so on his. Each time you gather a new convert you are making another ally for the Free source/Open source movement which will, in time, I am sure become the prevailing operating system. Railing against the defensive manoeuvres of Microsoft does little for your stress levels and nothing to defeat their public relations drive. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Microsoft FUD
by MJ Ray 22 Jun '01

22 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > The point is people will beleive him, why should they listen to a group > of geeks? What linux lacks is the marketing machine which can put out > the reverse FUD on MS and thus balance things? I've been quite impressed with the recent xinit and DNUK efforts, but they're still focusing on preaching to the choir in order to sell more of their machines. Hopefully one or both will start in the mainstream Real Soon Now. > [...] Will the mac > with linux/BSD/OS X be able to compete finally on the open market? No. > Apple have got the Ease of use thing down to an art, linux and the FS > communitee have power and reliability down to a tee, so why not mix > both together and we could then really rock the planet? Apple make some quite fundamental user interface errors in the more recent versions of their interface (it's a long time since 1984). I think that looking at all interfaces which have gone before and mixing bits up, picking the best from each, but focusing on simplicity, is the way to heaven. It's what I'm trying to do, anyway. I'll let you know if I succeed... ;-) -- MJR

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Re: Microsoft is right Re: [Alug] Microsoft FUD
by MJ Ray 22 Jun '01

22 Jun '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > I find it very amusing, to think that a few years ago M$ had their head in > the sand and issued statements along the lines of "Linux is for niche > markets" and "specialist applications" now they have to resort to lies. First they ignore you, etc. I like that phrase this week, don't I? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Microsoft FUD
by MJ Ray 22 Jun '01

22 Jun '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > Yes, there is more than one GUI toolkit, as it GNOME/KDE, and > though applications written for one toolkit are hard to port to the > other, each environment can run applications written for the other > one by installing the necessary libraries. Interesting. Isn't there also more than one interface library to the Windows toolkit? Is that significantly different from having a few different widget libraries? I only seem to use three with any regularity, anyway: GTK, Xaw and Tk. -- MJR

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pppd problem
by A Glover 22 Jun '01

22 Jun '01

Hi, (Im new to the list too!) After over a year away from Linux I decided to install it again, unfortunatly Ive forgotten how to fix small problems. The current one and im having no success finding an answer for is disconnecting straight away with pppd. Distribution is Debian, using the script pon.

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Microsoft FUD
by Adam Bower 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

Apologies if you have already seen this, but I had to post this link. This could be the document with the worst use of grammer (not that mine is great but then hey I'm not an advertising exec) and the greatest FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) from Microsoft ever. Its interesting that M$ now appear to be getting very worried about Linux, where a few years ago they only called it a niche market that would never be serious competitor. http://www.microsoft.com/business/downloads/retail/linux_in_retail_and_hosp… oh yeah if you run strings against the doc you see these classic lines at the bottom :-) Our latest anti-linux paper.. timbel(a)microsoft.com Tim Belvin Microsoft Word Document MSWordDoc Word.Document.8 Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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Re: [Alug] New Member
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

Neill newman wrote: >I don't want to sound all high and mighty (because I'm not!), but imho >Mandrake is probably the best for beginners. Once they are up to speed >they can then explore other offerings... There are bound to be several re-installations...I started with Red Hat 6.2, installed EVERYTHING available not knowing which packages i would need, reinstalled a few times, played with it for 6 months, and then installed debian, with an absolute minimum. I probably wouldn't have liked to begin with debian - the install gave me some grief with various bits and pieces that i wouldn't have understood if i'd begun with it. Nutter wrote: >oh i also have bad spelling due to the fact im sydlxeci Oh, David and I got excited thinking there was another Ian M Banks fan in our midst ;-) I'm officially no longer the alug newbie now, then.....does this mean i don't have to bring buns and biscuits to the next meeting and make the tea???

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Re: [Alug] Microsoft FUD
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

In reply to Adam's link: Whoever wrote that sounds like a petulant child and bullshitter of the first degree, wonder what he got paid to spout that one out? (I'd have done it for a few grand less....) Seriously, that does have a desperate tone to it. D'you think Bill sees his profit margin decreasing to just the few hundred billion? Just remember, all, - Linux is NOT FREE, your system can be hacked into by ANYONE due to the open source software, and there are NO DRIVERS for ANY of it so it WON'T WORK. The trouble is, of course, that there are a lot of people out there who will read that and believe it. When I first installed linux, the attitude from my peers (and the now infamous windows network administrator..) was "what do you want to go back to that old command-line shit again for? There aren't any applications written for linux, and no drivers...."; an opinion based on articles such as these rather than any known facts. (The same people are now beginning to say they fancy having a look round linux in slightly more impressed tones, you'll be glad to hear). We need a good hacker to hack up a link on that ms page to The Truth. Jen

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Re: [Alug] Hello im new =)
by NuTTeR =) 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

>Allegro as in lisp? >Can't spell? You'll fit in on IRC ;-) >Greetings from North End. >-- >MJR No allegro as in the C games programming lib. Its multi platform windowz, QNX, DOS, BEos, MAC and Linux witch is good coz that way there are loadz of games the can just be ported with little trouble... well unless they decided to use some platform specific stuff(DirecX). Try www.allegro.cc its not the official site but has loads of games listed (most with code =). Ye IRC'z ok but i gota use mirc =( coz i dont have my linux machine connected. lol don't think the rest of my family would like an old version of linux the next time they try to do some work on it. hhhmm that's a point is there any linux programs that can make MS word readable files? i think i have been told about one be4... just cant remember much about it =( Dennis -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze

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New Member
by John Seago 21 Jun '01

21 Jun '01

I understand that an introduction is usual. I would seem to be somewhat out of the usual run of your membership, in that that my only experience of computers is that of using one to write papers for publication, letters and articles, (and their associated filing) and the maintenance of records of my finances. I only came to the use of a computer as some of the periodicals I wrote for stated requesting their copy on floppy disk or by Email, I have had experience of Email which is best counted in days rather than weeks. It is my experience of Email and the propensity for windows to shut down when dialling in that has caused me to seek to install and learn to use Linux which is reputed to be more stable. My level of expertise extends to being able to work the keyboard and the various on/off switches, but I am prepared to learn. It appears to me that I would make an ideal test-bed for the use of the various forms of Linux as if you can get me to be able to use it with some facility then it should be suitable for more general use. I have already managed to convince my prospective son-in-law of its value and he has it installed on his computer, we look forward to learning together. John Seago

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