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Re: [Alug] re: Abstraction
by MJ Ray 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > My way, it would be 7. It would also be easier to get extra candy in, > like a datestamp on every file. (You'd have to split tail into tail1 and > tail2, then cat tail1 >> product.html; date >> product.html; cat tail2 > >> product.html) Any scripting language offering regexps would make it fairly easy to build the site from templates and external files. 6 pages would need 9 files (6 content, 1 template, 1 build script, 1 Makefile). This is more or less how I build my website at http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ I don't see how you arrived at a total 7 files unless you're doing some nasty things in the content ones?

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Re: [Alug] re: Abstraction
by David Freeman 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:02:33 -0400 Alexis Lee wrote: > What I understand you want is a way to generate pages with a customisable > sidebar and main page on your home computer, which can then be uploaded to > a static webspace. Bingo, exactly what I want! No more no less. > You certainly don't need a database for this ($0.02: pg). You don't > need to > learn a 'web language' such as PHP for it; since you're going to be > throwing > text into files, C could do it. But web languages weren't designed by > fools. Yup, RDBMS is over kill for what I want. > You can build PHP as a CGI executable (which can then be used just > like any > UNIX CLI app), pipe your source through that, and upload the result. > Alternatively, you could set up Apache/PHP on your home machine > hosting the > pages. Use wget to grab each page into export/, rename all to end in .html > (for X in `ls export'; do mv $X ${X%.php}.html; done), then upload to your > space. getting more like it, although PHP does not ender itself to me > AFA designing your source goes, I'd suggest something like this: > > > html.php: > <? > function htmlopen() { > // html, head and body tags; set up for the sidebar content > } > function htmlsplit() { > // close sidebar, open main page > } > function htmlclose() { > // footer, close main page, close html > } > ?> > > > mainpage.php: > <? > include_once('html.php'); > htmlopen(); > // sidebar content > htmlsplit(); > // main page content > htmlclose(); > ?> > > > That looks fairly simple to me, and it shouldn't be too hard to add extra > sections to the layout later on. I learnt PHP from the reference > manual, and > I knew enough to write that after day one. cat head body tail > index.html :o) I think this is the most sensible suggestion sofar, I am just skeptical about PHP, my past history with it is not good (3 weeks trying (and failing) to install it last year! The one I am surprised no one has mentioned is Slashcode! Thanks D > Alexis > -- > "Don't say don't quote me, because if no one quotes you, you probably > haven't > said a thing worth saying" - KMFDM, Dogma > "Imagine a world without hypothetical situations" - Bram Moolenaar > `man` first, ask questions later. > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Re: The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by MJ Ray 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Paul Tansom <paul(a)whaletales.co.uk> writes: > and seen so far I'm not inspired with confidence of its flexibility, and I > definately didn't like the small text input box that I appear to have to > type/past my html pages into. Of course I haven't look far into it yet so I > could be wrong/unjustly biased! Well, you can enable an FTP service on it too, but you'll want to be restricting that to specific domains for upload, IMO, and files uploaded in that way don't get types set correctly (at least not when I was doing it). The FTP also confuses some (many?) badly-behaved windows clients, as you can't list the starting or root directory if you're a normal user. I'd love to hear that there was a new upload method and/or FTP set object types correctly now.

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Re: The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:19:20 +0100 "Earl Brannigan" wrote: > David, > One word... ZOPE > www.zope.org > In a box, if you haven't got a functional site within an hour, and if you > can't get a more site up and running in basic form within a day of reading > the tutorial (included in installation) > then your a donkey!!! > Have now donned asbestos clothing and await.... > Regards > Earl Earl, Great in theory but I can't put anything other than plain old HTML. Thanks D PS EuroDMCA is scary! ===== -- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Sun cables
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 23:12:56 +0100 Neill Newman wrote: > David Freeman wrote: > > > > Does anyone know what the pinouts are for a sun Monitor plug, I have a > > Sun IPC I would like to connect to a normal monitor? > > aahh that old chestnut, I tried that a while back, it's not as easy as > just hacking the cables.. Oh goodie. > The sun monitors have RGB and sync on the green signal, but standard VGA > has seperate sync lines, you need to either get a graphics card that can > do sync on green, or hack teh sun monitor and patch the sync into the > right place on the board.. A friend has modifoed a SGI monitor to do > this, but it took him a while... This looks fun, will need to do more of a Google. > to be honest, an IPC is about the same speed as a 33MHz 486 (ish!), I > have an IPX as a doorstop ;) Whats wrong with a 486 33? I still have two 386's which are in use! I use a IPX as a monitor stand! > > > > Also how different are sun keyboards to PS/2? > > erm.. no idea about that one... Cheers D > Sz > > > > > Thanks > > > > D > > > > ===== > > -------------------- > > "We all know Linux is great... > > it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." > > Linus Torvalds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > -- > Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ > Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368 ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Abstraction
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:35:09 +0100 Richard George wrote: > On Sunday 05 August 2001 10:27 pm, David Freeman wrote: > > yes you suggested I use a language which mixes content with formatting, > > requires two new services be installed on the server and something which > > took 7 months to code, I want something I can knock up in an evening and > > then just add content to easily. I also want something which can > have the > > format changed easily perhaps with the editing of one file. > > Obviously I'm wasting my time trying to help you here, and I can only > assume > that this is why those more familiar with your posting here have not even > attempted to do so. I'm not going to repeat the reasons why what you have > written above is innacurate, as it's really of no interest to me if > you write > your pages in C, M4, perl, Fortran or Cobol. I shall just wish you > good luck > and consider this conversation closed. Well stop being a zipper head and turn your hearing aid up! Its quite simple, I beleive I have explained this in other mails. I can not be certain that my hosting will always have PHP or the practical alternative to RDMBS (MySQL) and as such your option is no good, especially if it will take me many months to code. You have yet to give me any endering reasons for me to choose it. Also PHP is notorious for heavily loading a server, ask Adam about his MySQL and PHP horror stories. I want a simple system for generating what I have at the moment from say a list of text files. The PHP code someone else had can be done equally simply by a simple shell script. Put head in file head, body in body and tail in tail cat head body tail > index.html Somehow I think PHP is a bit bloated for this. I did also say in my original mail that PHP was out. Last summer I spent 3 weeks trying to get it to install, it never even compiled! Most of what PHP can do Perl does just as well. So the question is still out, how can I generate my pages for upload onto the server. Please bear in mind that I can ONLY USE HTML on the server. As for the comment above about the usual suspects not replying I would like you to explain this! Thanks D > Richard > ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by Earl Brannigan 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

David, One word... ZOPE www.zope.org In a box, if you haven't got a functional site within an hour, and if you can't get a more site up and running in basic form within a day of reading the tutorial (included in installation) then your a donkey!!! Have now donned asbestos clothing and await.... Regards Earl

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re: Abstraction
by Alexis Lee 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

What I understand you want is a way to generate pages with a customisable sidebar and main page on your home computer, which can then be uploaded to a static webspace. You certainly don't need a database for this ($0.02: pg). You don't need to learn a 'web language' such as PHP for it; since you're going to be throwing text into files, C could do it. But web languages weren't designed by fools. You can build PHP as a CGI executable (which can then be used just like any UNIX CLI app), pipe your source through that, and upload the result. Alternatively, you could set up Apache/PHP on your home machine hosting the pages. Use wget to grab each page into export/, rename all to end in .html (for X in `ls export'; do mv $X ${X%.php}.html; done), then upload to your space. AFA designing your source goes, I'd suggest something like this: html.php: <? function htmlopen() { // html, head and body tags; set up for the sidebar content } function htmlsplit() { // close sidebar, open main page } function htmlclose() { // footer, close main page, close html } ?> mainpage.php: <? include_once('html.php'); htmlopen(); // sidebar content htmlsplit(); // main page content htmlclose(); ?> That looks fairly simple to me, and it shouldn't be too hard to add extra sections to the layout later on. I learnt PHP from the reference manual, and I knew enough to write that after day one. Alexis -- "Don't say don't quote me, because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying" - KMFDM, Dogma "Imagine a world without hypothetical situations" - Bram Moolenaar `man` first, ask questions later.

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Re: [Alug] Abstraction
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:16:51 +0100 Richard George wrote: > On Sunday 05 August 2001 9:41 pm, David wrote: > > OK, so my web of mail seams to have been distorted into a holy war > before > > I got a good answer. > > > > So this still leaves me with how can I seperate content from formatting > > such as to give an elegant and simple solution which doesn't need a week > > to code, two high level languages, a relation database and an > excerise in > > normalisation. > > You have my answer, reasons, and example. I apologise if it wasn't "good". > If you want any more info, let me know - I'm no expert, but I know > what works > for me. yes you suggested I use a language which mixes content with formatting, requires two new services be installed on the server and something which took 7 months to code, I want something I can knock up in an evening and then just add content to easily. I also want something which can have the format changed easily perhaps with the editing of one file. > Yes, the example took 7 months to code, uses DBs, CSS and js as well > as PHP, > but these are all optional. In between all that, it lets me modify > the site > from a small number of files - which I think pretty much serves your > purpose. > > Rereading your initial mail, it suggests that you want to reformat > prior to > upload; I can't say I have any brilliant suggestions on how to do > that, as I > think the more normal method would be server-side modification or CSS. Yup, I can't guarentee that I will have PHP and mysql on every server I ever use so it gives me compatablity issues, I want simple HTML, no more no less with CSS and a nice easy way to add to it. Thanks D > Richard > -- > Technical Webmaster, http://www.cyclists.org.uk/ > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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