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Kmail & spam
by Nick Daniels 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

Hi All the spam I receive is addressed to xyzy(a)freeserve.co.uk not as above I have configured Kmail pop filters to- If to contains xyzy-delete on server but it takes no notice. I basically do not want to download it -Is it me being stupid? Regards Nick

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Pissup in a Brewery
by Daniel Silverstone 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Hi, I'm organising a party to go on a tour of the Milton Brewery. There are 15 spaces on the tour, five are already allocated, leaving 10 up for grabs. It's £10 per head and we expect the visit to be in early January on a weekday evening. Fridays (and Thursdays) are most busy for the brewery, but if I can get a 15 strong interest, we can see what we can get. Wednesdays seem a possibility for many people. Milton is not near a train station, but there will be some people driving out of Cambridge and Ely to get there (yes, some non-drinkers have booked in already) so lifts may be available. Anyone interested enough to have their name down on the list should mail me privately. I'll subscribe you to the private discussion list we have, and put your name on the website http://users.pepperfish.net/dsilvers/pissup.html We do need to get the decision made by mid December ideally, so please get your dibs in fast. D. -- Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)digital-scurf.org> Digital-Scurf

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Linux
by Stan Fraser 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Has anyone seen the "Linux" Desk lamp in British Home Stores just the gift for Guy or Gal who has everything Regards Stan

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Choice of video card
by Edenyard 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable video card that would work on a Slackware 9.1 Athlon 1GHz system with kernel 2.4.22 and X version 4.3.0? The card is wanted for playing DVDs on and must have an output of some sort suitable for sending to a standard 625-line PAL (or RGB) TV system. I know that there are tons of cards out there, but I'm concerned about getting one that is WELL supported by Linux. Also, is there any reason to choose AGP over PCI, given the use to which it will be put? Thanks for any pointers! Gerald.

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Lurking
by Christopher Dawkins 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

>> I want the lurkers to speak up. > > I'm an inveterate lurker ... > I have never been to a meeting as, generally, they are too far away .. > I'm a lurker (well for a while), but mainly can't make meetings ... Me too. But once spoken up, we've broken cover and are no longer lurkers. However, we must occasionally pop up to thank the active people for all their advice and comments. I've been lurking here (and in many other places) for a few years and it's all been very useful even if am often forced by other pressures to skim or delete the digests I get. This list is very useful to me and, I am sure, to many of the other 200 inactive subscribers. Please keep it going and when we can we'll contribute. A minor reason I lurk is that we are here entirely FreeBSD based. Not Linux, but the same in most respects. Another is that I feel too busy (I know that applies to everyone). A third is that I am on the southern fringe of your geographical area. Anyway, I post now because I have just made what I feel is a critical, though non-Linux, discovery: see last half of message. > Send out an annual resubscribe to non-posters, with two monthly > reminders before removal? Too much effort, unless the copies are costing you money. > One or two may be lost, but are they benefitting anyway? Yes, most of us lurkers are benefitting. > Don't want to accidentaly unsubscribe people if we can help it. Good. > My thanks to Brett and Adam on this one. I don't care what the group calls > itself if I can get such instant, high-quality advice at a moment's notice. Hear, hear. > It's a hard life for a bear of little brain. Exactly. ================= here's the meat ================= Discovery: I don't know how many of you run a network of machines. Five, ten, fifty or the five hundred we have here? Well, we have things called hubs, and things called switches, and things called routers (which are based on FreeBSD boxes with multiple interfaces). Some of our switches are intelligent or managed, but we don't manage them, being half a dozen makes (whichever was cheapest at the time) it's difficult keeping track of all the different management methods, and anyway most of that sort came with CDs that don't run on FreeBSD so they sit on the shelf. Anyway, consider our switches. Each has one incoming port, maybe seven or fifteen or twenty-three outgoing ones. Feeding rows of RJ45 outlets through miles of Cat-5 cabling. These feed client machines through drop leads. The RJ-45 outlets are often arranged in pairs, as a pair fits nicely in a single-outlet box. You have the picture? Fairly common, I think. It all works very well. Very much more resistant to lightning than our Econet system was (we still run Econet, BTW). Doesn't work when the mains power is off, common in this country environment (indeed, we've had eleven power cuts in eleven months) and there's also trip switches that go off from time to time. But that's not the problem. The system works well on a 24/365 basis. But - there's a problem. Suppose you see a drop lead hanging from an outlet cos the user has gone off with his or her portable, isn't it nice and tidy to plug the free end into the adjacent outlet? It is, and it generally causes no trouble. But they now make better switches. Remember the old ones - you press the little button for the input lead, cos to connect two of these hubs or switches together you need a reversed lead or a reversed port? The new ones have auto MDX/MDIX on them, so you don't need reversed leads any more. Just plug them together with straight leads, and they'll work. Very convenient, although in practice you rarely needed reversed leads anyway. So - have you tried shorting any two outlets together, as in the "tidy-the-lead" scenario above? No? Try it. If your network has no broadcasts on it, you may be OK. But if there's a broadcast, it'll go out one port and in the other, then out again, and again, and again. This broadcast storm will feed its way up your network till it all comes to a glutinous halt, until blocked by am intelligent switch or router. We've had a few of these halts. We eliminated the switch responsible. But we've now determined that there was nothing wrong with the switch. It was just too intelligent, in that it had auto MDX/MDIX. But not intelligent enough, in that it caused broadcast storms if two ports were shorted. We never had the problem before (that is, before 13 months ago), because with the older switches you needed a crossover lead to do the damage. With the newer ones, all you need is a normal drop lead and a yen for tidiness. ===== well, that's the discovery. Now for the rant ========= The entire Base-T Cat-5 RJ45 system is powerful, flexible and convenient. But how could they possibly have designed it so that it can be brought down so easily by any tidy end-user? ============= OK, OK ======================================= I know we can sort it out in various ways. I am told that configuring DEVICE_POLLING in the kernels will protect our routers and servers by polling the network cards instead of allowing them to interrupt. But my immediate reaction is to source simpler switches, those without auto-MDX/MDIX. Unfortunately, these are becoming rare beasts now. And to ask you who else has come across the danger to corporate networks posed by the convenience of auto-crossover ports. -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd(a)felsted.essex.sch.uk

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Government wasting money on IT
by Dave Briggs 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Read a pretty shocking article on government waste of money on IT in the Guardian this morning. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1082416,00.html Essentially, for those who can't be faffed to click the link, the government wanted to unify the Magistrates Courts across the country with one system. The tender which won was for £146 million. It has now risen to over £400 million, and the system still does not work. This is the latest cock up, following distasters with the passport office and the CSA, amongst others. The Public Accounts Committee report [ http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmpubacc/434/434… ] states that this is the biggest waste of public money yet. What do we think about this, and how could things be done properly? Would the use of open source software improve matters? Why can't they recruit willing and able software engineers and do the job in house? From what I have hear from various sources, there are a lot of good IT people out of work at the moment. Surely they couldn't do any worse?! Dave

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More zaurus fun...
by BenEBoy 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

I finally gotten round to trying to get my zaurus to connect properly with linux (i.e. without me having to manually set the IP address) and have hit a problem. Using the instructions someone here sent me a while back I set up hotplug to grep the output of 'ifconfig' for 'usb0' when module usbnet is loaded. The usb network isn't created until I hit 'sync' on the cradle, so of course when hotplug runs when I put the PDA in the cradle usb0 doesn't exist so nothing happens. Any ideas anyone (using knoppix BTW with a 2.4.21 kernel)? I'm playing with a daemon that (I assume) will poll for the existance of the USB network every so often and set it up if it finds one, but I don't really want another daemon taking up memory cheers, BenE

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Re: [ALUG] Names and topics
by Jenny Hopkins 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

>........ I sometimes wonder how many of these mail boxes are >going to /dev/null and why we see many people join the list but never post? >are they there? do they really exist? I'm here! The list is probably in reality only half the size as most people register both from work and at home..I do anyway. I don't mind if there are talks or not at meetings. But I work full time and have two young children, and weekends are usually quite precious, that's why I don't show up, rather than lack of enthusiasm or preference for a particular style of meeting. As for the name ... I vote for leaving it as Anglian Linux Users group, for the reasons stated by John about 3,657 mails ago on this subject and Kirsten only 65 ago ;-) Jenny

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whie box linux
by Vasko Tomanov 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Do someone have some info about: http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/index.html some feedback ? Cheers Vasko

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Problem compiling from source
by Graham Trott 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Guru question: On a couple of occasions when compiling a source package I've had errors such as that below. The common factor appears to be the "error: `__ASSERT_FUNCTION' undeclared". Have I got something set up wrong in my system? -- GT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- make all-am make[1]: Entering directory `/home/graham/Documents/dvgrab-1.2' source='avi.cc' object='avi.o' libtool=no \ depfile='.deps/avi.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/avi.TPo' \ depmode=gcc3 /bin/sh ./depcomp \ g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -Wno-deprecated -O2 -Wall -D_REENTRANT -c -o avi.o `test -f 'avi.cc' || echo './'`avi.cc avi.cc: In member function `virtual void AVIFile::Init(int, int, int)': avi.cc:285: error: `assert' undeclared (first use this function) avi.cc:285: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.) avi.cc: In member function `virtual int AVIFile::GetDVFrameInfo(off_t&, int&, int)': avi.cc:388: error: `__ASSERT_FUNCTION' undeclared (first use this function) avi.cc: In member function `virtual void AVI1File::Init(int, int, int)': avi.cc:951: error: `assert' undeclared (first use this function) avi.cc: In member function `virtual void AVI2File::Init(int, int, int)': avi.cc:1240: error: `assert' undeclared (first use this function) make[1]: *** [avi.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/graham/Documents/dvgrab-1.2' make: *** [all] Error 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Announce digest, Vol 2 #26 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Web site updates, North and South edges of ALUG (MJ Ray) 2. GnuPG small vulnerability (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:19:42 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]Web site updates, North and South edges of ALUG Details of the King's Lynn and Debian-UK meetings have been added to the web site. A 2004 meetings index page has been created. The site design has changed a little, which hopefully will reduce the number of layout problems. Thanks to Stuart Hammond for suggesting some of the changes on IRC last night and helping to test them. The page at http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/ has changed to be a more useful geographic guide to our area. The side bar link list of other LUGs has been replaced with links to the new pages in /venues/ too. The front page and "join ALUG now" page have been heavily edited. North and South Edges I've not created a page for North Norfolk, because I don't have any links to put on the page, nor any clear idea of what town to link it to. Can someone from North Norfolk tell me, please? For Colchester, I don't even know whether there are still any ALUGgers there. Can you please make yourselves known to me or the main list, please? Can anyone remember how to contact the university there? For Ipswich, I've made a page, but there is no meeting planned and the last one was quite a while ago. I've put a link to the "how to make ALUG meet" page. Please can Ipswich people interested in meeting there make themselves known to the main list? Three come to mind immediately, so there should be enough people out of the 300 who will get this message... -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:48:19 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]GnuPG small vulnerability Probably it won't affect any ALUGgers, but ElGamal sign+encrypt keys in GnuPG (ones with G in the --list-keys output) have been found to be insecure. See http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-announce/2003q4/000276.html for more information. For more information about GnuPG and signed or encrypted email, ask at a meeting. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Fun with kernel 2.6.0-test9
by MJ Ray 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

After frothing lightly about the kernel-centricity, here's an email about the kernel. Please point out any errors. I started to upgrade my first machine to kernel 2.6.0-test9 at the Sunday's ALUG meeting, as some of may have seen. I didn't actually complete the upgrade there. As with all good projects, I ignored it resolutely for two days and took another look at it on Wednesday. It seems there are some things which can catch out the unwary when you upgrade from 2.4 to 2.6, but it feels a lot faster, so it's probably worth doing if you have a machine with fairly simple hardware. I hear there are still IDE bugs, so maybe you should wait for 2.6.0 proper. Nevertheless, off I went. First off, there's some changes in the device handling. Some time ago, devfs was introduced into the kernel. It offers a /dev which only contains the devices you actually have, rather than having you waste disk on a directory full of mostly unused special files. It seems that time has not been kind to devfs, as it upset kernel developers with a relative lack of maintenance, alleged design flaws and continuing its own incompatible naming scheme. devfs is still there in 2.6 at the moment, but is marked as "obsolete". Before you rush to disable it, note that part of its intended replacement, udev, is on version 0.06. I'm using a distribution which makes devfs fairly essential, so I've left it enabled for now. udev looks like a nice idea. It uses a really important new filesystem in 2.6, the sysfs. This is a virtual filesystem, like devfs and procfs, which exposes "kernel objects" as files. A "kernel object" seems to be a device or driver that is loaded into the kernel. When something is added to sysfs, the kernel calls hotplug (possibly familiar to USB device users) and udev acts on the hotplug event to create an entry in /dev. So far, not much difference. What is different about udev is that it accesses the sysfs object and calls a helper to tell it what to call the entry in /dev. That helper, called "namedev", can identify devices by their serial numbers, so even if you plug your USB printer into a different socket, it can still appear as /dev/lp0 without reconfiguring. Alternatively, it can assign a particular port to a particular device, so *that* USB socket is always your /dev/input/mouse0, even if you change the mouse plugged into it. Of course, this is controlled by text files for now. Will GUI user tools appear soon? More details in the slides and paper linked from http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/1029 Secondly, ModUtils has been replaced by ModuleInitTools. Outwardly, there aren't too many changes, as you can still use commands like "modprobe", but it says that a lot of tidying up of the interface between kernel and tools has happened. modules.conf is dead, long live modprobe.conf -- it's a simpler configuration file which can usually be generated from modules.conf by the supplier tool (called "generate-modprobe.conf"). It couldn't handle the trick my scanner does to ask the kernel to rescan the SCSI bus for it on first use of /dev/scanner, but apparently that should be done by udev now. (Yes, that means I'm prodding the scanner by hand until I have switched over to udev...) An improvement which may interest some is the better ACPI support. Sleep, suspend to disk and suspend to swap are claimed to be supported, although I've not yet really tested this. The kernel can do an ACPI power off, which 2.4 never did on this machine. Also, ALSA replaces OSS/Free as the preferred sound system. Yippee! If you haven't been using the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture, then you're probably going to get access to all the features of your soundcard for the first time. I had been using the OSS/Free which was installed by the distribution. I didn't even know that the sound card can do half the tricks it can. It sounds much nicer now and debian users won't have to fiddle around as much to make it compile. One final note. On the second machine I upgraded, the compile failed with the error that it couldn't find stdarg.h, which is a header that comes with GCC. It seems that the kernel Makefile uses options to GCC that the GCC manuals say not to use. A quick (and slightly dubious) edit of the Makefile to replace "-iwithprefix include" with "-I/full/path/to/GCC/header/include" made it work. I'm not sure what is different between the two machines, as they supposedly have the same distribution with the same GCC version. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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Re[4]: [ALUG] Cheap web hosting ?
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

Anthony Anson <tony.anson(a)zetnet.co.uk> wrote: > And posted his reply to the list. Ah! I've just realised I posted a 'reply to sender' whereas I meant to post to the list. Bother! I really must try and post this to the list!!! > BTW, your [2]: is falling foul of my spamtrap, and I've tried to make an > exception of the subject line with Re:, without Re: and just the > subject, and I've tinkered with the filter five times, reprocessed the > packet five times and it's eaten it five times. Poor thing must be hungry. I've never fallen foul of a spam trap before - how exciting. What ever would it do with Re[4]. Incidentally it's my mailer that does that not me - honest. Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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Cheap web hosting ?
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

I have a co.uk domain name which is detagged and now due for renewal. I understand from Nominet that I have to have the domain hosted before I can renew it and that if I renew via full member of Nominet it will cost me far less than the standard Nominet charge. All I want is a holding page as I don't intend to actively use the domain at present. Can anyone in the know suggest a web hosting provider who would handle this inexpensively? Regards Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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Toy
by Anthony Anson 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

Snarfed from The Shed: Here, if any Penguinistas want to waste a bit of time, have a look at xplanet. 's really rather shiny. It's turned the background piccy on my screen into a picture of The Whirled, upadted every few minutes, with day and night rotating around it as it does, and the piccies are real ones, and every few hours it grabs a new piccy of what the clouds are doing and overlays it ... you can lose hours playing with it. Coo. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Gentoo
by Richard Lewis 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

OK, I've had a look at the Gentoo website and it looks quite cool. I'll have a go at installing (if the UEA network decides to behave itself! Grr!) Just a couple of questions: 1) People say it takes a long time to install. If I've got a PIII, 512MB RAM, 20GB HDD, etc and I want a fairly standard system (KDE, basic development tools, a few music progams) how long does anyone think it might take? 2) Its source based, which seems like a really good idea. But can you use portage to install any old source.tar.gz? Or do they have to be recognised ones? (in the portage 'tree', is it, or something?) And if you can't is there a way that you can make them installable with portage? 3) Does it have an equivalent to Debian's 'non-free' or MDK's PLF? (For things like libdvdcss, pardon my French ;-) Cheers, Richard

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Linux Friendly MP3 Player
by Matt Parker 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

I just bought an Oracom 200M 256Mb player. Mandrake 9.1 detected it automatically and magically added an entry to my fstab. Not only does it sound absolutely fantastic, it was only £80 and it says "Diverse OS support for Windows, Mac and Linux" on the front of the box in big letters. No OGG though, but that was too much to hope for. Matt -- http://www.mpcontracting.co.uk Experts in Java development and website design

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When?
by Anthony Anson 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

When I log on (using Gnome - to start with, anyway) I'm asked for username and password, both of which I've remembered this time - certain listmembers will know why (!), I can get into the program, and following yesterday's help, I can now get out of it without a parachute. Q: If I need to get in as root, do I type 'root' instead of username? Q: Under what circumstances might I need to go rooting? Q: I fired Wine up yesterday and it demanded a Windows program to play with, and sulked because the one I had in mind was in the CD romdrive waiting to be installed. How should I set about installing the program, where should I put it, and how? (It's my internet software, and someone has reported that it runs under Wine. If it does, expect me to lay down a barrage of questions about modems and error messages. And Syd, I really will try to get most of the answers off that CD you kindly sent me, honest I will.) -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Open networks
by Graham Trott 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

For those interested in open (wireless) broadband, head off to http:// consume.net. -- GT

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Norwich meeting.....
by Craig 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

I think I should really pop along to this meeting... not sure how I would fit in ;) However, I could bring my little ipod for drooling purpose...... I presume anything goes at all linux meetings? ;) C

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Debian (with high version numbers)
by Richard Lewis 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

(This is sort of Re: 'MDK9.2 ships w/out kernel sources') One of the reasons why I've been using MDK is because it always uses the latest versions of software packages. (I'm afraid I'm a bit of a features junky!) I keep meaning to try Debian. The 'stable' release comes with quite old packages, doesn't it? Whats the best way to use Debian with more up-to-date packages? I've looked at downloading the ISOs for the 'testing' release. But it comes on about 11 discs and I can't find out whats on what disc. Any hints? Cheers, Richard

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Re: Debian (with high version numbers)
by Richard Lewis 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

OK, I will install Debian (all my K menu icons and panel icons have just disappeared!). But I have one more question: I've got three partitions on my disk: root (/), swap and home (/home). Can I install Debian into / and set up a user with the same name as I have at the moment ('richard') and have that user's home directory the same as it is at the moment ('/home/richard') but without overwritting any of the data in /home/richard? Cheers, Richard

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Peterborough on 27 Nov
by MJ Ray 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

Hi all, I'll be travelling to Peterborough LUG's meeting tomorrow evening, from KL via Wisbech. The meeting topic is still being decided, as far as I know. If anyone near the route would like a lift there and back, email me off-list, please. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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Linux on a Laptop
by Stan Fraser 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

Have installed Red Hat on a HP Pavilion N5472 and it seems to run Ok except the desktop only covers a fraction of the screen ie centered with a huge black border. How do i utilise all the screen. Regards Stan Fraser

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MDK9.2 ships w/out kernel sources!
by Richard Lewis 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

I've been using Mandrake since 9.0 and up till now have been really pleased with it. I installed the download edition of v9.2 today and found that it no longer includes the kernel sources package!! I checked on their website and they make no mention of not including it and it simply doesn't appear in the package list. It is, however, available on all their FTP mirrors (weighing in at 40MB!). Has anyone heard anything about this? Is it a mistake or have they deliberately left it out? Cheers, Richard

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Hosting Solutions - Suggestions?
by Nick Heppleston 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

Hello again everybody, many thanks for the input about the Win95/USB/printer problem. I'm now on the lookout for a decent hosting solution. I'd like to support (read 'give my custom to') a company that uses open source solutions and that provide the following: 1. Web hosting, including access to PHP 4.x, MySQL 3.x or 4.x (space is unimportant so long as its not less than 10Mb); 2. POP3 without a restriction on mailboxes (or at least 15 mailboxes as standard); 3. Spam (black and white lists) and virus filters (the option to remove .vbs attachments etc), and the ability to amend them even if it is via SSH; 4. A reasonable amount of bandwidth within the monthly/quartely/yearly cost. I'd appreciate it if anyone could recommend somebody! Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

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RE: [ALUG] Hosting Solutions - Suggestions?
by Martyn Drake 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > From: Nick Heppleston <nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk> > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:45:41 +0000 > Subject: [Hosting Solutions - Suggestions? > > 1. Web hosting, including access to PHP 4.x, MySQL 3.x or 4.x (space is > unimportant so long as its not less than 10Mb); I can happily do that for the princely sum of 20 quid per year for 250Mb web space, PHP 4.3.3, MySQL 3.23.58 and 10Gb of bandwidth. > 2. POP3 without a restriction on mailboxes (or at least 15 mailboxes as > standard); No problems. In addition to the mailbox being a mailbox, you'd also be able to set-up each mailbox to have it's own SSH account. Subdomains can also be configured to co-incide with a mailbox too. > 3. Spam (black and white lists) and virus filters (the option to remove > .vbs attachments etc), and the ability to amend them even if it is via > SSH; Spam Assassin 2.60 installed - and it shouldn't be too difficult to allow for your own customisations via user_prefs or .procmailrc. All controlled via a sturdy control panel, and it also comes with a SSL-enabled Squirrel Mail install and Urchin web stats (in addition to the usual Webalizer and Analog stats). The downside to all this? It sits on my own dedicated server which I run purely as a hobby (since my day job is working on big expensive FX-filled films), but I do have excellent uptime and keep the server well patched and serviced. Any charges help pay the server rental. Regards, Martyn

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Hosting solutions
by Nick Heppleston 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

Many thanks everybody for your help with hosting solutions. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

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What Hardware needed for ADSL
by Keith Watson 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

So if I bung this old 100Mb 3Com ethernet card into my PC and arrange for a broadband connection what other hardware am I likely to need? Any recommendations for good places to buy would also be welcome. :o) Keith

1 0

Advice needed re Gnome 2.4, Alsa 0.9.8.1, esd and conflicts with /dev/dsp
by Keith Watson 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

I'm using a custom 2.4.20 kernel with a mixed testing/unstable version of Debian (based on Woody). Everything works great except for those programs that try and directly address the /dev/dsp device (which includes esd). It's OK while one program is doing this but the 2nd and subsequent tasks just hang until the device becomes free. 99.9% of the time this is not a problem just an irritation. However it does annoy me that if I load up, say, Doom, I have to remember to kill esd or Doom hangs. Also means that I can't have music and sound effects. I've googled myself to a standstill trying to figure out if I can resolve this or just have to live with it. Has anyone else had this problem and fixed it? Keith

2 6

Resouces Link
by Keith Watson 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

Lots of useful Linux stuff over at the PC Plus web site. Go to <http://www.pcplus.co.uk/tutorials/default.asp?subsectionid=377> In addition the Christmas edition of PC Plius has an interesting masterclass on getting Linux set up to use broadband. Presumably that will be added to the web site in due course. Keith

4 6

[Alug]The Gimp - Fonts
by Nick Heppleston 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

Having difficulty adding additional fonts to The Gimp. Although I'm almost at the point of ditching Win2k for good, graphics is the one thing holding me back. Does anyone have any experience they would like to impart on this subject? Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

3 2

Short Report from the meeting at Syleham on Sunday 23rd November 2003
by John Woodard 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

Attendees: Keith (sorry I didn't catch the surname) Brett Parker Mark Ray Syd Handcock Tony Anson Jonathan McDowell Paul Corner BigJohn Woodard (host) Young David (BJ's son who made the tea and played Frozen Bubble) Nice to see familiar faces, a new face and a face that hasn't left the confines of Norwich for an ALUG meeting before. Sorry about the lack of beer my fault I will make sure I have the bar keys next time. Various discussions were held about web hosting, firewalls, software patents, the DMCA and its European equivalents, how to circum navigate CD copy protection, hi-fi vinyl turntables and how to stop vibration affecting them also the reason why there was *NO* beer. Some kit was in evidence with a partial install of Mandrake 9.2 being made (just to test the hardware). Future meetings were also mentioned with another showing of Revolution OS being requested, so it was decided that it could be screened at the next meeting at Syleham, on the large TV owned by the Syleham and Wingfield Sports and Social Club. Their permission will be sought and it will be scheduled for the last Sunday in Feburary next year, the 29th. This will be a normal Sunday meeting too so feel free to come with or without kit as per usual. Cheers, BJ

3 4

Announce digest, Vol 2 #25 - 3 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Collecting history of FLOSS in UK (fwd) (MJ Ray) 2. [ALUG] Short Report from the meeting at Syleham on Sunday 23rd November 2003 (John Woodard) 3. King's Lynn meeting report (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:38:10 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]Collecting history of FLOSS in UK (fwd) David is particularly interested in any events to do with Martlesham Heath. Do we have current ALUG subscribers who could help him with this? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-11-18 12:00:14 +0000 From: David Tannenbaum <david.tannenbaum(a)worc.ox.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Collecting history of FLOSS in UK Dear Lugmasters, I am a doctoral student in Economic & Social History, and am writing my dissertation on the history of free software. I am currently compiling a short history of free software use and development in the UK, particularly in higher education, for a separate project that will be published online. The report will go on the website, which has a policy of putting an open license on all documentation, and that anyone can contact them to discuss alternative licensing if they need it. Could folks suggest events or areas of interest that I should include? I am particularly interested in free software use and development in higher education, but would like to include everything that's important. I'm interested in history going back as far as the 1950s. David Tannenbaum University of Oxford Economic & Social History -------- -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: John Woodard <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> (by way of John Woodard <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk>) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:25:48 +0000 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Subject: [Alug Announce][ALUG] Short Report from the meeting at Syleham on Sunday 23rd November 2003 Attendees: Keith (sorry I didn't catch the surname) Brett Parker Mark Ray Syd Handcock Tony Anson Jonathan McDowell Paul Corner BigJohn Woodard (host) Young David (BJ's son who made the tea and played Frozen Bubble) Nice to see familiar faces, a new face and a face that hasn't left the confines of Norwich for an ALUG meeting before. Sorry about the lack of beer my fault I will make sure I have the bar keys next time. Various discussions were held about web hosting, firewalls, software patents, the DMCA and its European equivalents, how to circum navigate CD copy protection, hi-fi vinyl turntables and how to stop vibration affecting them also the reason why there was *NO* beer. Some kit was in evidence with a partial install of Mandrake 9.2 being made (just to test the hardware). Future meetings were also mentioned with another showing of Revolution OS being requested, so it was decided that it could be screened at the next meeting at Syleham, on the large TV owned by the Syleham and Wingfield Sports and Social Club. Their permission will be sought and it will be scheduled for the last Sunday in Feburary next year, the 29th. This will be a normal Sunday meeting too so feel free to come with or without kit as per usual. Cheers, BJ _______________________________________________ main(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:35:51 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]King's Lynn meeting report A hardy band of trailblazers restarted the King's Lynn meetings last Tuesday evening. Brett, Kaz, James, Pete and MJR were there and Chris sent his apologies. Many exotic and strange ways to configure disks, some sort of electrical modelling software (was it called spice?) and differentiation were discussed, while some beer was quaffed. It was a small but encouraging meeting after nearly a year's gap. I hope the others there enjoyed it as much as I did. I think the next meeting will be Tuesday 16 December at the same time (7pm) in the same place (Hogshead, High St). I'll prepare some better directions for car drivers (Lynn's roads are fiendish, so maybe photos) and probably a slightly silly christmas quiz. If 10 people agree to come far enough in advance, we should be able to get a free buffet, so please email me now. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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CDs at Syleham
by Paul 23 Nov '03

23 Nov '03

A short list of CDs that will be available this afternoon at Syleham. Knoppix-3.3 19-11-03 Morphix 0.4-1 CombinedGnome CombinedGamer CombinedKDE LightGUI MediaCentre Fedora (a.k.a. Red Hat 9) The Unix Bookshelf & other GNU docs. Regards, Paul. -- "To err is human...to really f*** things up requires the root password."

4 5

Next Syleham, and Reminder: meeting stuff to announce
by MJ Ray 23 Nov '03

23 Nov '03

Hi all, Can whoever is writing the meeting report (Brett, was it?) remember to send it to announce@ instead of main, please? I'll send the KL report there now. There are about 50 people on that list (and 250 on main who will get a copy too). Similarly, please send meeting announcements (and any other announcements) there. Is the next meeting at Syleham on 29 Feb, when we'll watch Rev OS in the bar and have some software demos? Excuse my bad memory. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

2 1

newbie
by Stan Fraser 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

Thanks for all the help. Up and running and quite pleased Regards Stan

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Re: [ALUG] Sunday
by Anthony Anson 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

The message <200311211907.49088.syd(a)toufol.com> from Syd Hancock <syd(a)toufol.com> contains these words: > > I have a Linux newbie coming along to see "all this Linux stuff > > is all about". I will bring an old spare box to install some > > distro on (maybe latest SuSE if anyone has a copy on cd or dvd). > Knoppix could be useful? I'll try and remeber to bring a copy > although I don't have the most recent version. I'm bringing Knoppix 3.1 -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

2 1

Sunday
by Jenny Hopkins 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

Hi all, Just realised I won't be able to make Syleham on Sunday, - brother's housewarming party. My favourite venue, as well. Enjoy, Jenny

5 5

Re: [ALUG] Sunday
by Anthony Anson 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

The message <200311211119.41306.mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> from John Woodard <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> contains these words: > I will be at the venue from around 1:00pm and will open up the bar if > required. > I have a Linux newbie coming along to see "all this Linux stuff is all > about". > I will bring an old spare box to install some distro on (maybe latest > SuSE if > anyone has a copy on cd or dvd). Hmmm. You've got another: thobut I know what it's all about - on the surface. I will be bringing - well, Syd will be bringing me and it - an almost pristine box with Debian loaded. (By kind attention at Syleham a while ago) I'll be bringing the Debian CD set anyway, and Knoppix, and if you think it might be useful, the coverdisks from Linux Magazine issues 1 - 20 and some apps on PC Pro coverdisks. > Also it has been mentioned elsewhere, either on this list or on irc that a > discussion on copyright issues surrounding books, education and other > matters > arising would be a good idea. I would also like to hear something about > sotware patents and the possible implications if they are forced upon us. Yes. Must do some mugging-up on the issues if I find a tuit of the correct shape. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Re: [ALUG] Off topic: Win 95 and USB?
by Anthony Anson 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

The message <1069425390.19740.24.camel(a)trite.i.digital-scurf.org> from Rob Kendrick <alug-main(a)nun.org.uk> contains these words: > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 14:22, Nick Heppleston wrote: > > Looking to pick the collective knowledge of the ALUG group - I need to > > use a USB printer on a Windows '95 install. I seem to remember that '95 > > doesn't support USB and that SP2 provided that support? Am I right? Any > > ideas where I might be able to pick up a copy of Win '95 SP2? > Windows 95 B and C support up to one USB device, IIRC (also becareful, > not all USB drivers work properly under Windows 95). Windows 95 A does > not. There is no way to "upgrade" - you have to reinstall. I suspect > at that point, it becomes easier to just find a copy of Windows 98 > instead. I didn't think any flavour of Win 95 supported USB satisfactorily. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Re: [ALUG] Trigger Levels all round
by Anthony Anson 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

The message <200311190842.ANU47458(a)msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk> from "Edenyard" <mail(a)edenyard.co.uk> contains these words: > Could you expand on that a little, Michael? I infer from it that > somehow it's possible for the ordinary man in the street to influence > the provision of ADSL in a particular area; if that's true, I'd like to > know how. I've more or less given up on the idea of ever seeing ADSL > available in a one-eyed comatose place like this (Martlesham Heath)... One way is to openly canvas for interest in a broadband sattelite link, and if BT believes it might lose a lot of customers thereby, may just be crowbarred into providing the ADSL service. I'm seriously thinking of doing just that. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Re: [ALUG] Re: Welcome to the "main" mailing list
by Anthony Anson 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

The message <abd436c600fec58e738337914f022a0a(a)bouncing.localnet> from MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> contains these words: > On 2003-11-17 15:06:53 +0000 Anthony Anson <tony.anson(a)zetnet.co.uk> > wrote: > > Disclaimer: what you may consider typos may not be all they seem. qv > > uk.rec.sheds. Now read on. > I am not, and have never been, a reader of uk.rec.sheds, but I > understood far too much of that. I am now looking for treatment. A very Sheddy riposte. I hereby confer on you the orangeade of Horrorary Sheddi. There is no escape. > In any case, welcome! Thank you. I'll see you at Syleham: Syd Hancock has very kindly offered to drive me there with my pet pooter, that I may be (DG and attending gurus willing) instructed in the mysteries of actually using Debian, and loading the Apps I might want to use. So, be you all very careful lest you get roped-in and catch a dose of Sheddism innit. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Re: [ALUG] Sunday
by Anthony Anson 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

The message <2d5c9831e41c0177c84d35ab8cb78b8f(a)bouncing.localnet> from MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> contains these words: > On 2003-11-21 20:01:02 +0000 Anthony Anson <tony.anson(a)zetnet.co.uk> > wrote: > > It looks like all my replies intended for the list are going to the > > senders. > Worse, it's going to the Sender: header contents, as far as I can tell. Ah. I just copied and pasted from the header..... > > I don't know if this is a list thing or a ZIMACS (local software) one. > Nothing wrong with the list. Do you know if "ZIMACS" supports mailing > lists? (RFCs 2369 and 2919) Can it be fixed to do so? Does it have a > "reply to all" command? It's never given any trouble with lists before. However, this *IS* a beta version, and the problem has been aired in the beta list. (Which works.) Some tweaking in setup.exe *SHOULD* have put the matter to rights. We shall see soon enough. > > Cut and pasted list addy in for this one and any others until it's > > sorted. > The list address is main(a)lists.alug.org.uk Noted, thanks, and stashed away in the address book. I'll have to repost any that seem fairly fresh. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

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Re: main digest, Vol 2 #347 - 8 msgs
by Tim Green 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 06:25:11AM +0000, main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: MP3/Ogg (John Woodard) > 2. Resouces Link (Keith Watson) > 3. TechBookReport: Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye! (Keith Watson) > 4. Re: Advice needed re Gnome 2.4, Alsa 0.9.8.1, esd andconflicts with /dev/dsp (Keith Watson) > 5. Re: Advice needed re Gnome 2.4, Alsa 0.9.8.1, esd > andconflicts with /dev/dsp (MJ Ray) > 6. A6 meeting notices (MJ Ray) > 7. Sunday (Jenny Hopkins) > > --__--__-- How come the subject line says "8 msgs", but there are only 7? Also, this isn't the first Main digest I've noticed with the +1 error. The social list is OK. Hmmm. Tim.

2 1

Off topic: Win 95 and USB?
by Nick Heppleston 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

Looking to pick the collective knowledge of the ALUG group - I need to use a USB printer on a Windows '95 install. I seem to remember that '95 doesn't support USB and that SP2 provided that support? Am I right? Any ideas where I might be able to pick up a copy of Win '95 SP2? Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

4 3

TechBookReport: Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!
by Keith Watson 20 Nov '03

20 Nov '03

http://www.techbookreport.com/tbr0050.html At last!!!! Keith

1 0

MP3/Ogg
by Syd Hancock 20 Nov '03

20 Nov '03

What do people use for ripping/encoding and what bit rates? Do you use different bit rates for playing through the household stereo rather than a small portable player? Cheers and TIAs Syd

11 20

Trigger Levels all round
by Edenyard 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Michael Sage wrote: > > Try doing an ADSL check on your line, lets see if we can get a couple > more exchanges in "rural" England enabled! > Could you expand on that a little, Michael? I infer from it that somehow it's possible for the ordinary man in the street to influence the provision of ADSL in a particular area; if that's true, I'd like to know how. I've more or less given up on the idea of ever seeing ADSL available in a one-eyed comatose place like this (Martlesham Heath)... Cheers, Gerald.

2 1

Subject: [ALUG] Re: Welcome to the "main" mailing list
by Stuart Hammond 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

I was told when joining this list I was supposed to write a short bit on why i'm interested in Linux, well I'm using it as a friend of mine said do you want to try this out whilst shoving a copy of RH9 under my nose and that was about 2 months ago. I use it for school work on a laptop at both school and work.Any way so far i've found it very stable and openoffice seems to be capable competition to MS office so that's all good so far, its lack of laptop and modem support seem to be the only real problems I've had with it (I will say that it seems a bit more complex to do simple things some times but when doing them you can do more). The ALUG group seems pretty enthusiastic about the subject, its just a shame you don't have meetings where I can get to them (around Ipswich would be good). Yours S Hammond

2 1

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server
by Nick Heppleston 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Evening all, A copy of the PC World Business directory landed on the desk today and while having a look though, I came across MS ISA, their 'Internet and Security Acceleration' server. It retails at just over £1000 (you need a copy of Win2k Server too). Just a small bit of the marketing blurb states that: 'ISA Server includes an extensible, multi-layer enterprise firewall featuring dynamic packet filtering, SecureNAT for transparency, "smart" data-aware application filters, system hardening, and built-in intrusion detection.' it also goes on about: '...high-performance cache accelerates Web access while saving network bandwidth, and with Windows 2000 Advanced Server, scales for efficient, dynamic load balancing. ISA Server studies data usage patterns and actively caches popular content. Isn't MS ISA a cobbled together product that features apps that come with a standard Linux distribution? Or is that price tag the result of putting a few point-and-click dialog boxes together? Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

2 1

ASDL
by Stan Fraser 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

We've had broadband for ages in Lowestoft. Unfortunately the copper is as old as the sewerage system so unless you live in town its a no go Regards Stan

2 1

Trigger Levels all round
by Michael Sage 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

A bit off topic but, BT have just set the trigger level for 2300 exchanges including a number in East Anglia, where I live Freethorpe we have a trigger of 350, which isn't bad going. Try doing an ADSL check on your line, lets see if we can get a couple more exchanges in "rural" England enabled! Regards, Michael Sage

2 1

new to linux
by Stan Fraser 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Look at Linux as a challenge as it seems a lot more difficult to use than MS Win, so far have totally failed to install suse 9 on a computer. Mandrake installed no problem. Looking for help regarding installing suse ie how to i make a boot disk. Regards Stan

2 1

Re: Welcome to the "main" mailing list
by Anthony Anson 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

The message <20031117101601.20618.79205.Mailman(a)terry.blackcatnetworks.co.uk> from main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk contains these words: > Welcome to the main(a)lists.alug.org.uk mailing list! Welcome to ALUG! Too, too kind. > We welcome new members and we'd especially like you to send a short > description of why you're interested in Linux to the mailing list. Disclaimer: what you may consider typos may not be all they seem. qv uk.rec.sheds. Now read on. I used to use FT at my place of work, and liked it. However, I was only given simple tasks and I've pretty-well forgotten how to do those in the intervening years. I don't work there any longer so support from that quarter isn't available in quantity, though I sometimes pop in for a chinwag. After much wrangling in various newsgroups I've settled on Debian as my particular - er - sparring-partner. I tend to use keystrokes in Windows rather than the rodent for a variety of reasons: not the least of these is to show that nice Mr. Gates what fingers are for, so that OS seemed the logical choice. Not, of course, that I would dream of applying the same reason to Mr Linus T. (Whom God preserve.) > This is so that we can get some idea of how to cater for new members, > as they're the most important ones! <Preen> > Some general info should follow... Oh. I seem to have jumped the gun. General Info rose from the ranks by means of his intuitive grasp of the function of escalators, while bearing in mind the traditional insurance industry caveat that they can go down as well as up, he progressed through CP/M, Drapery, Haberdashery and Men's Wear, to DOS, Toys, Models and Restaurant and was dragged from thence, kicking and screaming into the clutches of Windows 3.0, because Someone Who Knew insisted that 'Everything was written for Windows these days'. As it happened, I used my first PC (DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.0 for several years without ever needing to run the fenestral part.) Indeed, with half a metaphorical eye on the insurance industry, he noted that escalators promised to go down a good deal faster than the other way about, so he took great care to step onto escalators which were going in a generally upwards direction, thobut with a certain lateral shift. Are you still with me? You've not got on that escalator going down...... Hooter! He must have been listening too intently and not noticed where he was going. Ah well, I'll mumble to myself then. Never have to correct myself, what? As a result of all this upward mobility he is not as young as he used to be (FDVO young) and the escalators are becoming very thin on the ground. There's this one though, which promises to fend off the worst depradations of age, in that it exercises the brian, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get on. And it's fun: the top of it is receding rather fast, so I might have to climb rather than just stand there. That thing at the top, it's growing, and if I CBA to learn a little programming even I might be able to contribute something. The last loading of Win98 got up my nose from time to time. Well, that's hyperbole *AND* oxymoron, I guvax. It was one of those escalators I stepped on without noticing which way it was going. However, making the best of a bad job I lined up in my sights that bloody Orofice Assistant. *BLAM!* - followed in short order by condescending messages and Junior Mickey$oftie six-year-old approach to naming things *MY* computer, *MY* documents, *MY* briefcase, *MY* &@$*! In the end I discarded so much junk that Windows gave up and sulked, so I reloaded it and despite its plaintive cries and entreaties, Outlurk, Outpuke Depress and a lot of other Mucodross never even made it into the filesystem. But it's hard work, and without taking a hammer and a spanner into the codes there's not much that can be done to wipe off some of its evil habits. Besides, if I got in amongst the codes there wouldn't be much spanner about it. "Oops! It's borked! Where's the soopergloo?" would be the cry. So, I'm defecting. A foot in both camps to start with, as my internet software runs in Windows, and as a beta tester, a clean break would be painful even though I'm not an addict. (Don't they all say that?) That's not all bad, as I shall make it my aim to fire up ZIMACS in one of the emulators. Zetnet is not just Debian-tolerant, much of its software works under it, and one of the directors is a guru thereof. Enough? Had enough? Want some more? -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

2 1

Welcome to Rekall Revealed
by Keith Watson 18 Nov '03

18 Nov '03

<quote> Rekall is a database front-end, it is not itself a database. By this we mean that data is stored somewhere else in an SQL server, and Rekall is fundementaly just a too to extract, display and update that data (of course, it does lots more than that, it does forms and reports and scripting and .... you get the idea). It is database agnostic, and does not have any preferred database in the sense that Access® uses the Jet® database engine (although the Windows version can use the Jet&seg; database engine via an ODBC driver). Rekall can do lots of the things that you would expect of a database front-end (or if it can't, let us know!). You can design and use forms and reports, you can construct database queries, and you can import and export data (actually, you can copy data, import is just copy file to table, and export is just copy table to file). Rekall can be scripted using the the Python language. You can arrange that a script is executed when various events occur (for instance, when the user changes the value of a control). Scripts can be associated directly with the event, but you can also store scripts in script modules for more general use. And, of course, you have full access to all the modules that are available for Python. Plus, Rekall has an integrated Python debugger with syntax highlighting </quote> This is a KDE biased product (based on QT libs) but looks quite nice. <http://www.rekallrevealed.org> Keith _________________ "For a nation to love liberty it is only neccessary that they know it, for them to be free it is only necesary that they will it." Lafayette (qv The Rights of Man - Paine)

1 0

T-Shirts Etc
by Keith Watson 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

For anyone interested in this continuing saga please hop over to the social list. Keith

1 0

Kings Lynn meet tommorow night.
by Brett Parker 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Hi all, If anyone wants a lift from Norwich to Kings Lynn tomorow night (Tues 18/11/2003) lob me an e-mail off list (I should be checking mail at work tommorow, GNUmail is a godsend :) I should be leaving here sometime around 6 or 6.30, I think Mark is planning on starting there ~ 7pm (Mark, is that right?) Cheers, Brett. (Oh, just incase... I'll be sitting in #alug all the working day tommorow as usual, lack of response might be me actually working though, so, erm, yes :) IRC Nick: iDunno

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[Alug]Linux 2.6
by Keith Watson 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Anyone on the list using the 2.6 kernel? if so what's the general opinion of it? Keith

9 13

CD burning at Syleham
by Syd Hancock 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

If anyone has any CDs to share, bring them along to Syleham next sunday. I'm expecting to have a burner with me. Regards Syd

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Re: [ALUG] Will Debian survive the rise of Linux?
by Keith Watson 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

On 11/17/2003, "Anthony Anson" <tony.anson(a)zetnet.co.uk> wrote: >The message <20031117133424.37BD31F8024(a)mail.ukpost.com> >from "Keith Watson" <kpwatson(a)ukfsn.org> contains these words: > >> MMmmm... Debian > >Have you got a recipe? > <http://www.debian.org/social_contract> :o) Keith

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SP - First Look: Next-Generation Debian Installer
by Keith Watson 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

<http://articles.linmagau.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=inde…> Keith

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Will Debian survive the rise of Linux?
by Ben Francis 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

I stumbled across this[1] article on the linmagau (Linux Magazine, Australia?) web site. The article claims that "Early 2004 is going to be make-or-break time for Debian... and if If Debian is going to continue to grow and develop, we're going to have to work on more than just technical innovation: we need to work on usability and visibility." Although a little bit repetitive and perhaps overzealous, the author (who is a Debian devloper himself) seems, to me, to make some interesting points. However, I can imagine that many of the Debian users on this list would oppose his views with some hostility. Is Mr Oxer missing the point of the Debian GNU/Linux project altogether or does Debian really need to start appealing more to our well known friend Joe, the "mainstream user"? I'd be interested to hear some views on this. [1] http://articles.linmagau.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=inde… -- Ben "tola" Francis

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Newsforg: Big boys team up to push Linux hard
by Keith Watson 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

<http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/14/1452201> <quote> Six giants of the industry are to form a group to commercially promote the Linux operating system, according to a report in today's Nihon Keizai Shimbun. The newspaper says that IBM, Hitachi, NEC, NTT, Fujitsu and Argo 21 will not only tweak the operating system and make other software applications, but _will promote the OS actively in Japan_ </quote> Anyone care to predict how long Canon will be able to keep their "Only Windows/Mac" policy in place? Keith :o)

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Announce digest, Vol 2 #24 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. [Fsfe-uk] FFII-UK update (software patents) (fwd) (MJ Ray) 2. LOCAL: ALUG/GNU/Linux meetings 18 & 23 Nov, 11 Dec (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:48:16 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce][Fsfe-uk] FFII-UK update (software patents) (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-11-15 16:51:56 +0000 From: James Heald <j.heald(a)ucl.ac.uk> Subject: [Fsfe-uk] FFII-UK update (software patents) New things on the FFII-UK website: Summary of the latest situation: http://www.ffii.org.uk/latest.html Extracts from the US Government FTC report, which is *devastating* about software patents. http://www.ffii.org.uk/ftc/ftc.html Much expanded commentary on important things in the Parliament amendments which the Commission want to chuck out again: http://www.ffii.org.uk/nov2002.html Side-by-side comparisons of the Parliament text and the Council draft text: http://www.ffii.org.uk/recitals.html http://www.ffii.org.uk/articles.html Reminder: The Coreper decision on how to proceed with the Directive is expected any day now. We really need to get the message over to MPs this weekend, if we are to stop a stitch-up on November 27. If you have already written to your MP, please write/fax again, thanking them for their previous prompt reply, and updating them about the situation. You may also like to tell them about the FTC report and send them some of the extracts. If you have not already written to your MP, we really need your help *this weekend*. See: http://www.ffii.org.uk/latest.html http://www.ffii.org.uk/council.html for the latest situation, and general advice on how to be most effective respectively. As usual, please copy letters sent to uk-parl-sent @ ffii.org.uk and MP replies to uk-parl-replies @ ffii.org.uk It's really helpful if you could put the MP name and consituency in the subject line, eg "Second letter to Sue Doughty MP (Guildford)". With the first wave of letters, we stopped the Council of Ministers meeting on November 10 from adopting their November 2002 draft unamended. But unless we can stop it with another, even bigger wave of letters, the Commission and the EU Presidency are pushing for the Ministers to adopt a rushed hack of a text at their next Competitiveness Council meeting on November 23. Every letter counts. Yours could be the one that tips the scales. All best, James Heald, FFII-UK. [Feel free to forward all or any part of this email to anywhere it could do some good. These four are the only groups it's been sent to, so it's up to you to propagate it from here]. _______________________________________________ Fsfe-uk mailing list Fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-uk -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:04:07 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: ALUG/GNU/Linux meetings 18 & 23 Nov, 11 Dec ALUG meets frequently around East Anglia to discuss and demonstrate GNU/Linux and other free software. The next meetings are: * [7]King's Lynn on Tue 18 Nov 2003 * [8]Syleham, mid-Suffolk on Sun 23 Nov * [9]Norwich on Thu 11 Dec * IRC each Monday from 8pm in irc.alug.org.uk #alug * Ely, date tbc If you are interested in coming along, look at the pages mentioned for details and send an email to our discussion list or the meeting organiser. We are also interested in hearing from people who can help make meetings happen again in the Ipswich and North Norfolk areas. Join the mailing list and start organising, or drop us an email privately if you'd rather. Discussion If you want to talk about this, please [13]use the mailing list. * Destinations 1. [15]Join ALUG 2. [16]FAQ 3. [17]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [18]Peterborough 2. [19]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [20]PHP4Hosting 2. [21]Black Cat Networks 3. [22]Martyn Drake 4. [23]Turo Technology LLP 5. [24]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [25]UK LUGs References 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/meeting16.5.html 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/meeting17.html 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/meeting18.html 13. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 15. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 16. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 17. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 18. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 19. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 20. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 21. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 22. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 23. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 24. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 25. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: Subject: [ALUG] Re: Welcome to the "main" mailing list
by Steve Fosdick 16 Nov '03

16 Nov '03

On 2003.11.16 22:06, Stuart Hammond wrote: > ... The ALUG group seems pretty enthusiastic about the subject, its > just a shame you don't have meetings where I can get to them (around > Ipswich would be good). We did have a meeting at Martlesham a while back which was very poorly attended, which is a pitty because I live in Felixstowe so Ipswich is a lot closer than Norwich. Still, I often make it to the meetings and if you want a lift to the meeting next Sunday just let me know. Steve.

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MegaTouch Maxx
by Matt Parker 16 Nov '03

16 Nov '03

I happened to see one of these machines (you must have seen them in various pubs etc) booting up the other day and saw the familiar black screen with scrolling white text and green [OK]s on the right :-) Matt

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Which printers? I won't buy Canon.
by MJ Ray 15 Nov '03

15 Nov '03

I was browsing around for a new printer for someone and found the following gem on Canon UK's support site: "Where can I find Linux or other OS drivers for my printer? Canon only develops drivers for Windows and Macintosh, not for Linux or other OS" Further, if you look for scanners: "The information for scanners is "classified" and will not be distributed, so there is no program for these products." As some of you may know, I have been the happy owner of Canon printers in the past (both with third-party drivers) but not any more. Time for them to wake up and support us. It took people a lot of hard work to support the 4-digit BJ series and there's little interest in Canon's current crop. What's the current best for supported colour inkjets? hp? My current printer is a Samsung that came with a penguin on the box and driver sources, by the way. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

6 7

Syleham lifts from Norwich
by Syd Hancock 15 Nov '03

15 Nov '03

If anyone wants a lift to and from Sylehm from Norwich or anywhere reasonably in between, contact me off-list. Syd

2 1

Norwich 2003-11-13 report
by Syd Hancock 15 Nov '03

15 Nov '03

We had a great evening! Twelve people turned up - myself, Graham, Ian, Brett, James Taylor and Karen, Jonathan - sporting a T shirt of tasteful design bearing vulgar content <g> - Adam, Kirsten, MJR and Sarah, Tarquin. I took some photos but had drunk too much coffee and every one was very blurred (no flash - horrid intrusive devices). There were too many people to know what everyone was talking about but subjects certainly included the design of the Dragon 32, obscure command line incantations, fast cars and rubbish repairers, and activities included not only beer coffee and diet coke but also comparing PDAs, swapping stuff via IR links and reading mp3/ogg playlists stored on CF cards in mobile phones. So, lots of gadgetry and geekery and general loud chat. The forum was full (opening of the ice rink) which probably helped the general lively vibe. Meanwhile Karen worked relentlessly writing an essay - I didn't dare ask how long ago the deadline was :-) Till next time... (thursday Dec 11th) Syd Not forgetting Syleham a week sunday - 23rd Nov

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Re: Wednesday Ely Meet
by Tim Green 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 06:25:08AM +0000, main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > Hi, > As we seemed to enjoy it last time, we're proposing another Ely > Wednesday evening meeting in the Fountain pub. Sorry, I'm already booked for The Wrestlers. Maybe _next_ time! Tim.

3 3

Reminder: Norwich evening meet this week
by Syd Hancock 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

Norwich "second thursday" evening meet this week: Thursday 13th November, 8pm in the Forum coffee bar. General chat and banter, all welcome. More info on the ALUG website http://www.alug.org.uk in the Meetings section Syd

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Re: [ALUG] Ely meeting report
by Kirsten Naylor 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 22:40, Daniel Silverstone wrote: > Thanks to Kirsten and Adam for turning up, and hopefully we'll see a few > more of you at what is turning into a nice regular pub going evening for > a bunch of geeks. I had a really nice time, and hopefully there'll be a bigger crowd next time :) /Kirsten

2 1

Prozilla, FLTK, & FLUID
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

Prozilla is an ncurses based download manager (has a GUI frontend called Prozgui) Prozgui uses the Fast Light Toolkit library FLTK and there's a UI builder called FLUID for FLTK. Anyone ever used any of the above? if so, care to comment? Keith

2 1

Norwich evening meeting 8pm tonight
by Syd Hancock 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Norwich evening meeting 8pm tonight, Forum Coffee bar. Syd

3 2

New member
by Richard Fletcher 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Why am I interested in Linux? Because the penguin is cute, of course! No, the real reason is that I want to get more out of my computers than Windows can offer. As a complete newbie to all this I am still having to run Windows XP along side SUSE 8.1 but I'm rapidly loosing the need to boot into windows and I think that when I can work out WINE then I'll be kissing it goodbye for ever! Still a newbie striving for more knowledge but with that, I've just popped my cherry feeling, that I got from installing my first driver correctly! Loving the challenge of Linux along with the look, feel and smell of the penguin! Richard Fletcher.

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Re: [ALUG] Ely meeting report
by Andrew Savory 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Chris Walker wrote: > You might be interested to know that there is an Ely branch of CAMRA [...] > a link between ALUG and the local branch, thus benefitting both parties. Ooh, do you reckon there might be Free Beer involved? ;-) A.

4 3

Ely meeting report
by Daniel Silverstone 12 Nov '03

12 Nov '03

Hi, Well, the hard-core ALUGers from the region descended once again on Ely to have a good chat and a pint or two. Myself, Rob, Kirsten and Adam turned up in the Fountain and had a good natter. The smoke rose to record levels so we decided to find a new pub. The new venue for Ely meets is the 'Prince Albert' pub which is just up the side-road from the Fountain, and is opposite one of the pedestrian exits from the council carpark. The Prince Albert was nice, happen to have a cheap book sale to raise money for the Haddenham Wildlife Sanctuary, and happen to sell a good ale or two. Much geekery was perpetrated, and a jolly good natter. Thanks to Kirsten and Adam for turning up, and hopefully we'll see a few more of you at what is turning into a nice regular pub going evening for a bunch of geeks. Regards, Daniel -- Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)digital-scurf.org> Digital-Scurf

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Wednesday Ely Meet
by Daniel Silverstone 12 Nov '03

12 Nov '03

Hi, As we seemed to enjoy it last time, we're proposing another Ely Wednesday evening meeting in the Fountain pub. If anyone needs directions, please ask. We shall aim to be there at 19:00. Last time involved discussions ranging from what beer was good, through when might Debian release Sarge, onto "Is the GFDL free then?" so we have high hopes of a repeat of the beer discussion this time. See you there, Daniel. -- Daniel Silverstone http://www.digital-scurf.org/ Hostmaster, Webmaster, and Chief Code Wibbler: Digital-Scurf Unlimited GPG Public key available from keyring.debian.org KeyId: 20687895

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Re: [ALUG] Telling Linux to ignore hardware
by Edenyard 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

Chris Walker wrote: > > How about putting a loopback tool (a paper clip or two if you're feeling > brave) on the port to make it think something is connected? Would that > improve anything? > I was thinking about something along those lines so that I'd know when the stream had actually been transmitted from the hole at the back. The RS232 to RS485 adapter has a facility for echoing the data on the TX line back to the RX line and that would have done the 'paperclip' trick nicely. Unfortunately, it still doesn't get me clear of the problem, because I'd have no way of knowing how much delay had been introduced by the emulation between the echo coming back to the port and the emulator actually passing it back to my DOS programme. If there were an appreciable delay, I'd miss the real received response from the far end of the RS485 link. Ted.Harding wrote: > > mv /dev/ttyS0 /dev/ttyS0.bak > > There may be a problem arising from the initial hardware probe > at the start of boot: if Linux _at that point_ lays claim to the > hardware device then there may still be conflicts. I haven't tried > the above, so it's only a (possibly uninspired) guess. > It does seem to claim the port very early on, judging from teh dmesg output. MJ Ray wrote: > > Feed the serial driver the io address and irq of com2 as com1 or > something equally odd, then call it ttyS0. I forget how, sorry, but > I'm sure I've done similar things in the past to get an internal ISA > modem working. > Oh - that sounds intriguing! Does that mean that Linux would be trying to get at /dev/ttyS0 and /dev/ttyS1 both at the same actual hardware address? I suppose that would be alright, so long as it didn't want to write to both 'ports' at the same time. I'll try that as soon as time allows. Thanks for all the suggestions, as always! Cheers, Gerald.

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Re: [ALUG] Shutting down by non-root
by Edenyard 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

Richard Kettlewell wrote: > > CTRL-ALT-DEL seems perfectly sensible to me. > I can't see how that can be made to work via an IceWM menu, though. > > I'd suggest doing that to shutdown instead of halt - it appears (from > Debian's source) to be actually designed for setuid running, which > halt is not, and making programs setuid when they are not designed for > it can lead to unintended consequences. > Brett Parker wrote: > > SetUID evil! I'd definately go for a sudo job, and probably alias halt > to sudo halt, reboot to sudo reboot and shutdown to sudo shutdown. Also > makes it easy to add any other programs in to the list, *AND*, means you > can limit which users have access to which groups of commands. > Well - now I've learnt something else new! I've often wondered, whilst watching the packages scroll up the screen during a Slackware installation, what sudu was all about. Thanks to mention of it here, now I've been and gone and found out! Until I get it working properly, though, I've managed to set 'shutdown' to suid and that now seems to work properly with IceWM's menu item. Thanks again to everyone who'se contributed to my progress! Cheers, Gerald.

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King's Lynn meeting
by MJ Ray 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

OK, a few emails have been thrown around off-list and I'm thinking of calling an informal ALUG meeting in KL on Wednesday 19 November. In the town centre, probably 7 or 8pm, with exact time and venue to be confirmed later. Who will be there? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

1 2

Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Shutting down by non-root
by Edenyard 09 Nov '03

09 Nov '03

For once, a non-hardware question from me! What is the correct way of making 'ordinary' users (i.e., not root) able to shut the PC off at the end of the session? I find that (at least, on Slackware) an ordinary user can't use '/sbin/halt' or '/sbin/shutdown' because an error message is returned, saying something along the lines of "You must be root do do that". I've checked the permissions of /sbin/halt and /sbin/shutdown and they're both rwxr-xr-x, so I don't think that's the problem. I know that ordinary users can use Ctrl+Alt+Del and that works well here, turning off the power at the end of the shutdown procedure, but it would be nice to be able to make the 'shutdown' command in the IceWM menu work for ordinary users, too. Thanks for any clues on this one! Cheers, Gerald.

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Re: [ALUG] Telling Linux to ignore hardware
by Edenyard 08 Nov '03

08 Nov '03

MJR wrote: > > 1. don't compile the serial driver into the kernel and don't load it. > Adam wrote: > > Just out of interest, why do you want to not have a ttyS0 ? What are you trying: > to achieve? if we know that perhaps we can come up with another plan :) > Ted wrote: > > Anyway, as Adam says, it would help to know why you want Linux not > to know about /dev/ttys0 > I still need /dev/ttyS1 to work, since that's where my modem is connected, so disabling serial support altogether isn't really an option. > > has it got a dark secret? Crossed the > floor of the House to Windows, has it? > Crumbs, NO! If it had strayed to that extent, I would have personally drilled it out of the chassis and incinerated it by now.... The real problem is something of a convoluted story: I started off wanting to run a particular DOS programme using DOSemu. This DOS thing uses a serial port but has to be able to wiggle the RTS line properly. The reason for that is that it gets connected to an RS485 half-duplex system that uses RTS to switch between send and receive. The programme (which was written in Turbo/Power BASIC), when running on a proper DOS PC, writes to, and reads from, the UART's control registers to achieve the correct timing of RTS with respect to the transmitted data. That has all been working nicely for about 8 years on a variety of boxes fitted up with various flavours of DOS. In trying to make this work on a Linux box, I discovered that the emulation of the serial port by DOSemu is less than perfect. It doesn't faithfully report back the state of the UART's registers, so that, when looking for the transmit shifter to empty in order to know when to switch RTS off, the programme gets the wrong information. Also, there's a problem with the timing relationship between when the transmitted data emanates from the hole on the back of the PC and when the RTS line toggles; I imagine that this is due to latency in Linux's emulation of the port to DOS programmes. All in all, DOSemu hasn't come up with the goods for this DOS programme of mine, which I HAVE to get working for a client. The DOSemu list has, so far, seen fit not to afford me any help either: when I posted a query there, the response I got was, "What's RTS?", which doesn't exactly fill one with lots of confidence... This brings me to the query I posted to the ALUG list. I thought that, maybe if I could persuade Linux that what my DOS programme looks on as COM1 (/dev/ttyS0) didn't actually exist, then it wouldn't emulate it; I could then set the relevant things in the DOSemu config file to allow my programme to have direct unhindered access to the UART. Until I can persuade Linux that the port isn't there, I can't do that. If I do, I get an error when DOSemu starts, reporting a conflict between COM1 and standard i/o port. Hence the question: how do I get Linux to ignore a serial port? I hope that goes some way towards explaining the origin of my question. Sorry it's gone on a bit! Thanks for your input, chaps! Cheers, Gerald.

6 5

Announce digest, Vol 2 #23 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 08 Nov '03

08 Nov '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Web site updates (MJ Ray) 2. LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Norwich Thu 13 Nov (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:06:34 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]Web site updates Some changes have been made to the ALUG web site. Most importantly, http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ now contains Norwich meeting details until January 2004, thanks to Syd. I have also gone back through the list archives and added links to missing meeting announcements or reports. If you can find one I've missed, please email me. If you'd like to add a page to the web site, please email me about that too. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:14:14 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Norwich Thu 13 Nov [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.16: Norwich: The Forum bar Thursday 13 November 2003 Plan for the meeting Roughly, as follows: We will meet up from 8pm onwards for an informal evening get-together for anyone interested in GNU/Linux. How to get there For directions, please see [3]the venue information page. Use [4]the meeting transport page if you want to share your journey. People at the meeting If you will be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. NB: This venue is not suitable for anything more than portable equipment (laptops, palmtops, etc). As always, we strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [5]use the mailing list. [6]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [7]Join ALUG 2. [8]FAQ 3. [9]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [10]Peterborough 2. [11]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [12]PHP4Hosting 2. [13]Black Cat Networks 3. [14]Martyn Drake 4. [15]Turo Technology LLP 5. [16]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [17]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/forum.html 4. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?MeetingTransport 5. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 6. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/ 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 10. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 11. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 12. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 13. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 14. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 15. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 16. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 17. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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rpm to apt
by BenEBoy 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

Evening all, Can I ask you knowlegable lot whether alien is still the preferred way of getting RPM's onto debian or is there a better way and I should be shot for even mentioning alien here? thanks BenE

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Re: [ALUG] Telling Linux to ignore hardware
by Edenyard 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 06:25:08 +0000, Graham Trott wrote: > > Do you have a getty process running on ttys0? If so, it's defined in > /etc/inittab. My distribution (SuSE8.x) has the following line: > #S0:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L 9600 ttys0 vt102 > which as you see is commented out. The port is free for whatever use is > required of it. > I have the line, but it's already commented out. But Linux still knows about /dev/ttyS0 and I'd really like it not to. Gerald.

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RE: [ALUG] dual boot - problems?
by Jenny Hopkins 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

MJRay wrote: > it didn't sound as though it would be over-reliable for msaccess > > I thought Microsoft Access was one of the normal test applications > used for WINE? The comments on http://appdb.winehq.com/ don't seem > promising, though. By the way, I hear rumours of a multi-platform GUI > database client coming soon. > It's been hard enough trying to learn web programming and php, groan, I wonder what code this one will need to be learnt? Syd Hancock wrote: >(Disclaimer: I haven't used it but..) You might want to look at >Crossover Office - gets good reviews for stability etc. I *think* >it supports Access. Thanks, I'll do this install next week and give these all a go then. I can simply keep the windows hard drive in my desk drawer for should I need to plug it in and get a bit of software from it then, and do away with the dual booting :-) Jen

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RE: [ALUG] dual boot - problems?
by Jenny Hopkins 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

Wayne Stallwood wrote: > > On Tuesday 04 November 2003 09:53, Jenny Hopkins wrote: > > > Coo. That sounds exactly like the problems I've been > having. Do you > > have to be moderately good at hardware to check for this? > > > > Thanks, > > Jenny > > /me prepares to whisk new hard drive out of wrapper.... > > It may be Power Supply, to be honest unless you have a > reasonably accurate > Multimeter laying around, Substitution will probably be > cheaper than getting > the equipment to test such things. > > Worse than that it could be ripple or power on spikes on one > of the lines, in > which case you are going to need even more expensive > equipment to check it. > > Just a thought though, Did you plug that Serial modem into > either/both of > these machines (remember the time you mistakenly plugged the > serial port of > your modem into your laptop's parallel port) did you try it > on these machines > as well. If so have you had the parallel ports working since then ? > > Regards > > Wayne > > PS, You should try and convince work to pay for VMware, why > ruin the uptime of > a perfectly good Linux system by starting windows :o) > I'll try replacing the power supply then. Re. serial modem - no, that was a moment of laptop idiocy that fortunately seemed to leave no damage done (good memory you have!). This is my main desktop pc. I did have the printer printing over the parallel port from both OS until recently, as I did the sound. I'm racking my brains to think of any hardware changes I suddenly made (plugging in zip drives instead of printers to parallel ports etc) but can't think of any. I might bring the box along to Syleham meeting and invite speculation, if the psu change doesn't work. VMware - what an excellent idea. I was thinking of looking into WINE, but it didn't sound as though it would be over-reliable for msaccess, and I have to maintain a db for work in this (although I've just ported the back end over to postgresql on the linux server :-)). I'll go off and look at costs and spec. Thanks, Jenny

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Telling Linux to ignore hardware
by Edenyard 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

Please can anyone explain the magic invocation that's needed to tell Linux to ignore a serial port? I want my Slack installation (kernel 2.4.22) to ignore /dev/ttyS0 and pretend that it doesn't exist. I'm sure that I've seen it written down somewhere - but that might have been to do with ignoring parallel ports? I've tried 'setserial /dev/ttyS0 uart none', which the man page suggests might do the trick, but it doesn't. Any ideas, please, anyone? Gerald.

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[Alug]Raedeon graphics cards
by Nick Daniels 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

Has anybody managed to get a Raedeon 9000 pro graphics card working in 3D on Suse 8.2. Regards Nick Daniels

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RE: [ALUG] dual boot - problems?
by Jenny Hopkins 05 Nov '03

05 Nov '03

Keith Watson wrote: > What boot-loader do you use? I used to use LILO but have > found GRUB to be easier to configure. > LILO. I've never looked at GRUB. > If it is software related I would check out the particular > combination of motherboard/BIOS/chip set you have. However > last time I had a problem like this it turned out to be a > slowly dying power supply where the voltages where drifting > away from the required 5v or 12v and causing odd things to > happen like video/sound card lock-up, keyboard or mouse > problems, etc). > Coo. That sounds exactly like the problems I've been having. Do you have to be moderately good at hardware to check for this? Thanks, Jenny /me prepares to whisk new hard drive out of wrapper....

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GKrellm
by Keith Watson 05 Nov '03

05 Nov '03

I feel I must remonstrate with the members of this list (I'm lead to understand that they can't touch you for it :o) ). To date no-one on this list has mentioned that most excellent piece of Gnome eye-candy - GKrellm. For shame and even tsk tsk, ALUG ;o) I had to rely on a mention on Slashdot to draw my attention to this and downloaded a copy last night. In the vernacular of my younger colleagues - wicked! Keith :o)

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HOWTO meet an ALUG
by MJ Ray 04 Nov '03

04 Nov '03

Finally, the document that you've all been waiting for is available! Now you too can organise your very own ALUG meeting in the comfort of your own city for maximum LUGging, minimum effort! Astound your friends! Amaze your relatives! Be the envy of your peers! Point your web browser at http://www.alug.org.uk/articles/2003/howtomeet.html and follow the simple 10-point plan! [SANITY WARNING: may cause overuse of exclamation marks if ingested.] Seriously, I think that page is accurate and will replace a couple of older pages on the site. If anyone has suggestions for improvements, please drop me an email off-list and I'll see to it. I hope current and future meeting organisers find it useful. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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Saturday meetings?
by Dennis Dryden 04 Nov '03

04 Nov '03

Hello, I know that all ALUG meetings I've ever known about have been on a Sunday but would a Saturday meeting be out of the question? specifically a Saturday meeting in Norwich(UEA)? - Dennis Dryden

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dual boot - problems?
by Jenny Hopkins 04 Nov '03

04 Nov '03

Hi all, I set up a dual boot win2k and debian computer at home last year, each OS on its own hard drive. All was well for ages. Recently I have started having "odd" problems with it though, - first the onboard sound seemed to die and lock up either system. I disabled it in BIOS/changed jumper link, and stuffed in a sound card, and this cured the problem. However now I am having problems getting either systems to print, they can't contact the parallel port. This was working ok so settings are fine. My question is: could it be because each OS is using different settings for memory etc, that different bits of hardware are getting confused in between boots? The reason I am asking it is because I've got a 2nd hard drive to put in my computer at work here so I can have a linux desktop and only boot into the win when I need the occasional use of it. However I don't want to screw up my work box. Many thanks, Any comments or experience on this welcome. Jenny

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Promotional Artwork Page
by Keith Watson 04 Nov '03

04 Nov '03

Feedback please on the revised promotional artwork page at <http://www.kpwatson.ukfsn.org/alug/promoart/promoart.html>. If everyone's happy with it then I'll ask Mark to link it into the ALUG site. Keith

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