If anyone is thinking about a laptop for linuxhere is asuccess story.......
There was a time (not so long ago) when installing Linux on a laptop was a bit of a lottery with respect to getting drivers for all the hardware.
I decided my trusty old Dell Latitude was up for replacement, and having just built a desktop with a AMD64 mobo I decided to go for a similarly powered laptop.
For several reasons I decided on one of these http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/nbrange.html?CSF
After a bit of a delay ( and some trouble with UPS (that's the courier firm! )) it finally arrived yesterday.
I've installed SuSE 10.0 from DVD and EVERYTHING WORKS, even the built in wifi that uses a chip set I'de never heard of before! As with my other boxes I've added the ATI proprietry X server to get openGL support (1280x800 is nice!).
Peter
On 10-Feb-06 Peter Onion wrote:
If anyone is thinking about a laptop for linuxhere is asuccess story.......
There was a time (not so long ago) when installing Linux on a laptop was a bit of a lottery with respect to getting drivers for all the hardware.
I decided my trusty old Dell Latitude was up for replacement, and having just built a desktop with a AMD64 mobo I decided to go for a similarly powered laptop.
For several reasons I decided on one of these http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/nbrange.html?CSF
After a bit of a delay ( and some trouble with UPS (that's the courier firm! )) it finally arrived yesterday.
I've installed SuSE 10.0 from DVD and EVERYTHING WORKS, even the built in wifi that uses a chip set I'de never heard of before! As with my other boxes I've added the ATI proprietry X server to get openGL support (1280x800 is nice!).
Peter
That looks very nice indeed!
One question: have you tested the touchpad (or glidepad as they call it) with en external mouse? (I don't see a PS2 port listed, so maybe one has to use a USB mouse).
Sometimes one cannot use the touchpad and external mouse at the same time, unless one installs a proprietary (usually Windows) driver.
Good luck! Ted.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 10-Feb-06 Time: 18:18:50 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 05:55:35PM +0000, Peter Onion wrote:
For several reasons I decided on one of these http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/nbrange.html?CSF
Aaaah! A novatech laptop owner, I was looking at these recently because you don't have to pay the Windows tax. Could you tell me what the wireless chipset is please? I also note that they don't mention if they have an ethernet port? (If they do, can you again tell me which chipset).
(Also of note I saw that the Linux Emporium now sells IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads which come without Windows, and that they sell Linux compatible Wireless networking gear)
Thanks Adam
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 17:55 +0000, Peter Onion wrote:
For several reasons I decided on one of these http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/nbrange.html?CSF
Hmmm the idea of a proper AMD64 in a laptop is appealing, I was looking at the Turion based machines but I am such a Thinkpad junkie I don't know if I can leave them.(That said the New Turion based HP's are looking very very nice at the moment)
What sort of battery life do you get (I appreciate that these are more of a desktop replacement machine so that may be less important to you, but for me it's essential)
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 18:52 +0000, Adam Bower wrote:
(Also of note I saw that the Linux Emporium now sells IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads which come without Windows, and that they sell Linux compatible Wireless networking gear)
That's interesting to see because despite being an IBM partner they refuse to sell me Laptops or Desktops sans OEM licenses...Looks like another chat with my business manager is due.
Another weird thing (I've only checked a couple of machines admittedly) is that Linux Emporium's prices seem to be pretty much the same as standard IBM RRP...so it looks like any saving in not paying the Windows tax has been swallowed by their costs of putting on an alternative OS. This probably because in terms of cost to the manufacturer (at least in the case of large scale manufacturers like IBM) the actual cost of the OEM license is probably almost negligible.
Linux as a default installation still has value, but I wonder how much real value it has to those already using it...There is a reasonable chance for example that the Distro installed will not be the users first choice, or the configuration (choice of Window manager etc) will be wrong.
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 20:43 +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
Linux as a default installation still has value, but I wonder how much real value it has to those already using it...There is a reasonable chance for example that the Distro installed will not be the users first choice, or the configuration (choice of Window manager etc) will be wrong.
I forgot to add that the option of "Not Paying the M$ Tax" was a major plus on the argument for the Novatech purchase. It even comes free of the normal "designed for Windblows" stickers !
Peter
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Wayne Stallwood ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com wrote:
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 17:55 +0000, Peter Onion wrote:
For several reasons I decided on one of these http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/nbrange.html?CSF
Hmmm the idea of a proper AMD64 in a laptop is appealing, I was looking at the Turion based machines but I am such a Thinkpad junkie I don't know if I can leave them.(That said the New Turion based HP's are looking very very nice at the moment)
My laptop is a proper AMD64... It's an Acer Aspire 1513LMi.
What sort of battery life do you get (I appreciate that these are more of a desktop replacement machine so that may be less important to you, but for me it's essential)
I get ~ 2 hours of normal usage, to ~ 20 or 30 mins of "cane the graphics card, processor and HDD" (i.e. playing 3d games does bad bad things to battery life :)
Cheers, - -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 08:43:32PM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
Another weird thing (I've only checked a couple of machines admittedly) is that Linux Emporium's prices seem to be pretty much the same as standard IBM RRP...so it looks like any saving in not paying the Windows tax has been swallowed by their costs of putting on an alternative OS. This probably because in terms of cost to the manufacturer (at least in the case of large scale manufacturers like IBM) the actual cost of the OEM license is probably almost negligible.
This comes down to something I read saying that paying for a machine without an MS license costs more than a machine with one (lower volume, higher cost etc.), they try to order a machine without a license, but if it turns out they can't get one (the lead time is 3 or 4 weeks if it is out of stock) then they order one with Windows, remove it and the license sticker and try to get a refund later on (they don't pass costs on to the purchaser). They have been told if they start buying enough machines that they will get a discount, of course this would rely upon people buying from them.
(AIUI etc. etc. ask them directly for more)
Thanks Adam
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 23:15 +0000, Adam Bower wrote:
they order one with Windows, remove it and the license sticker and try to get a refund later on
I am not sure how they would manage that. In the System Builder license terms (used to be OEM terms) MS state that once a sticker is attached to a machine there is no chance of refund for the licensed product.
This is why for example (and I've tried this trick once with Toshiba) If you as the end user refuse the OEM license terms and try to exert your right to return the software for a full refund, you will find that you have to return the whole machine.
The OEM licensing has changed a bit now, in theory at least an ordinary consumer shouldn't be able to buy a MS OEM licensing pack (we are talking about operating systems here, other software is slightly different). The OEM license sticker should only be provided to an end user physically attached to a qualifying machine (there isn't actually a requirement to install said software)
On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 11:23:00AM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 23:15 +0000, Adam Bower wrote:
they order one with Windows, remove it and the license sticker and try to get a refund later on
I am not sure how they would manage that. In the System Builder license terms (used to be OEM terms) MS state that once a sticker is attached to a machine there is no chance of refund for the licensed product.
Apparently they don't try very hard, the idea being to show Lenovo/IBM that they don't need the licenses in the first place. They can then use this to give them a bit more clout if they say something along the lines of "here's 50 returned licenses, can you make it easier to buy the machines we really want in the first place please?".
Thanks Adam
OPSE... I sent these answers yesterday, but somehow managed to only send them to myself ... D'OH....
Peter
I'll answer the questions so far....
Q: "What sort of battery life do you get (I appreciate that these are more of a desktop replacement machine so that may be less important to you, but for me it's essential) "
A: Not sure yet as I've not given it a full charge/discharge cycle yet. Actually it's not a desk top replacement.
Q: "Could you tell me what the wireless chipset is please?
A: The interface comes up as "ra0" and the module is "rt2500" /var/log/boot.msg has this line in it.. "RaLink RT2500 802.11 Cardbus Reference Card (rev 01)"
Q: "I also note that they don't mention if they have an ethernet port? (If they do, can you again tell me which chipset)."
A: Yes it has an ethernet port.. SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet (rev 91)
Q: "One question: have you tested the touchpad (or glidepad as they call it) with en external mouse? (I don't see a PS2 port listed, so maybe one has to use a USB mouse). Sometimes one cannot use the touchpad and external mouse at the same time, unless one installs a proprietary (usually Windows) driver.2
A: Touch pad is a bit odd... Seems that it buffers up clicks and sometimes "odd things" happen (esp.when using the gnome workspace switcher) but the good news is that a USB mouse can be used at the same time and that does the right thing. I'm sure that with time I'll get used to the touchpad "quirks"
Peter
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Adam Bower -
Brett Parker -
Peter Onion -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk -
Wayne Stallwood