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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

M J Ray wrote: >Do that and we will have to kill you ;-) To put me out of my misery? Or you? >What are the last few lines before the >make "***...Error" line that you gave? Making install in . make[1]: Entering directory `/php-4.0.6' /bin/sh /php-4.0.6/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -I. -I/php-4.0.6/ -I/php-4. 0.6/main -I/php-4.0.6 -I/usr/include/apache-1.3 -I/php-4.0.6/Zend -I/php-4.0.6/e xt/mysql/libmysql -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/xmltok -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/x mlparse -I/php-4.0.6/TSRM -DLINUX=2 -DEAPI -DTARGET="apache" -DUSE_HSREGEX -DUS E_EXPAT -DSUPPORT_UTF8 -DXML_BYTE_ORDER=12 -g -O2 -o libphp4.la -rpath /php-4. 0.6/libs -avoid-version -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -R /usr/local/pgsql/lib stub.lo Zend/libZend.la sapi/apache/libsapi.la main/libmain.la regex/libregex.la ext/my sql/libmysql.la ext/pcre/libpcre.la ext/pgsql/libpgsql.la ext/posix/libposix.la ext/session/libsession.la ext/standard/libstandard.la ext/xml/libxml.la TSRM/lib tsrm.la -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv stub.lo: file not recognized: File truncated collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [libphp4.la] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/php-4.0.6' make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1 >Once again, what is wrong with the prebuilt php4 that you're trying to >fix? Or is this all an exercise in masochism? I can't remember exactly, as it seems a long time ago, perhaps I could retry......there were some probs so I left it a few weeks and have just come back to it. I'm still a bit hazy on what is the easy way and what is the hard way here. :-) I seeem to choose the hard way every time by mistake, anyway. Thanks, Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

With suggestions now flowing in thick and fast, I 've made a summary of replies so far: 1. Jen tries to compile php4 and finds apxs missing 2. jen compiles php4 without it and finds libphp4.so modules missing 3. jen is advised by Sean Neakums to install apache-dev for apxs etc 4. php4 now compiles but make install gets stuck doing *something* with libphp4.la 5. M J Ray asks about the apxs error, "not in path" - answer is it wasn't but is now. 6. Alexis Lee suggest more error log, but jen can't seem to find anything helpful. 7. Alexis Lee offers to send libphp4.so module although it is Deeply not The Right Way To Do It - this sounds very tempting to jen but she may well end up in a worse muddle. 8. Otherwise Alexis suggests things to do with apache sources and rebuilds of httpd, which also may end up with jen in a worse muddle 9. David Freeman offers his condolences and points jen once again at his "C" book......... Is it worth me comparing libphp4.la files? Re. Error log file - I've got config.log but the error is occurring on make install. My thoughts are that I could try and see if anything is wrong with makefile or libphp4.la (though why should there be?), then gratefully accept the libphp4.so module and try and work out where to stick it, the failing that do the thing with recompiling apache and httpd and php. Then failing that, borrow David's C book....... ;-) Sorry for the long output, but i've posted it below - can anyone see anything wrong with it? Thanks, Jenny. # libphp4.la - a libtool library file # Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.3.5 (1.385.2.206 2000/05/27 11:12:27) # # Please DO NOT delete this file! # It is necessary for linking the library. # The name that we can dlopen(3). dlname='' # Names of this library. library_names='' # The name of the static archive. old_library='libphp4.a' # Libraries that this one depends upon. dependency_libs=' -R/usr/local/pgsql/lib -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv' # Version information for libphp4. current=0 age=0 revision=0 # Is this an already installed library? installed=no # Directory that this library needs to be installed in: libdir='/php-4.0.6/libs'

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Laurie Brown 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> wrote: >On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:54:54 +0100 Sean Neakums wrote: > >> >>>>> "JH" == Jenny Hopkins <Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com> writes: [BIG SNIP] Not debian-related, but there's some good docs on this stuff on the web. Take a look-see at: http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/PHP/SoothinglySeamless/print.html and enjoy! It's a manual compile, but I followed it (mostly) and it worked for me. Besides, there's nothing wrong with building stuff from scratch, and IMO, rather a lot to be said for it... Cheers, Laurie. --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by Mark Elliss 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

Ok I'll stop lurking and introduce myself too. Name: Mark Elliss I work from home in a small village called Onehouse in Suffolk. I am an Objective-c programmer by choice and an electronics engineer by trade. I use Linux to develop programs which I then have to port to Windoze, Solaris, IBM AIX and HP-UX. The company I work for is based in London so it's great to work online. Family permitting I hope to attend some of the meets soon. Regards Mark

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by David Freeman 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:54:54 +0100 Sean Neakums wrote: > >>>>> "JH" == Jenny Hopkins <Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com> writes: > > JH> Alexis Lee wrote: > > JH> Thanks for the reply. > JH> I built it - - with - pgsql - - with - apxs as per the > JH> documentation, but i got the errors: > JH> "sorry, I was not able to successfully run APXS. Possible reasons: > JH> 1. Perl is not installed; > JH> 2. Apache was not compiled with DSO support (- - > enable-modules=so); > JH> 3. "apxs" is not in your path" > > apxs is the part of Apache that generates an Apache DSO; you can't > build an Apache module without it. I think you mentioned you're using > Debian; do you have the apache-dev package installed? Hurrah! Here we find why I took 3 weeks to fail to install it properly. Wait till your trying to install GD support, dependency knightmare! But back to the topic, I found you needed to recompile Apache before PHP then compile PHP then I think you had to some other weird and wonderful compilations to get it to all work. Eventually I gave up and used C :o) It was exactly this problem which I had. Good luck D > -- > Sean Neakums - <sneakums(a)ufo.chicago.il.us> --- --- -- - > Director of International Operations ----- ---- --- -- - > UFO Chicago -------- ------- ------ ----- ---- --- -- - > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

Alexis Lee wrote: >Did you build it the right way? You have to set some options or >something to make it build as an Apache module. I think it builds >as a CGI executable by default. Thanks for the reply. I built it - - with - pgsql - - with - apxs as per the documentation, but i got the errors: "sorry, I was not able to successfully run APXS. Possible reasons: 1. Perl is not installed; 2. Apache was not compiled with DSO support (- - enable-modules=so); 3. "apxs" is not in your path" So I ran it using just the - - with - pgsql option, which worked fine, apart from the lack of necessary modules, at which point I mailed the list. A trawl through the net for similar problems just led me to retry using ./configure - - with - pgsql - - with - apache but again i get the error (in Configuring SAPI modules..) "Invalid Apache directory - unable to find httpd.h under /usr/local/apache" I haven't got httpd.h (or apache.h), so no point in trying it with full path to apache/httpd.h. Jen.

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by MJ Ray 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > "sorry, I was not able to successfully run APXS. Possible reasons: > 1. Perl is not installed; It should be, if it's debian. > 2. Apache was not compiled with DSO support (- - enable-modules=so); Ditto. > 3. "apxs" is not in your path" Well, is it?

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

Sean Neakums wrote: >apxs is the part of Apache that generates an Apache DSO; you can't >build an Apache module without it. I think you mentioned you're using >Debian; do you have the apache-dev package installed? I do now! - - with - apxs is fine now, many thanks. However make install stops at "make[1]: *** [libphp4.la] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory '/php-4.0.6' make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1" Now I do actually have libphp4.la, so i don't know what it is grumbling about now. Cheers, Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] New Subscriber Introductions
by MJ Ray 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

"Martyn Ashworth" <martyn.ashworth(a)eag.uk.com> writes: I'm being mean here. > "an operating system which still baffles me" [...] > RedHat Certified Engineer (some would say just remove the word RedHat!) Hmmmmmmz. > Hope this wasn't too big for readers out there? Nope, it's fine. If only all the lurkers would post something like this about themselves... Welcome to the group!

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New Subscriber Introductions
by Martyn Ashworth 15 Aug '01

15 Aug '01

Hello All, Quick intro time. Name: Martyn Skene Ashworth Age: Have managed to stay alive for 23 years so far. Job: If it's got a microchip inside I deal with it! Based in a company in Mildenhall, Suffolk. Currently working on a large internal PHP/MySQL/Apache system. (get ready for some "help needed" questions soon). Trying to migrate systems from current NT network slowly over to Linux Just looking for like-minded individuals in a world filled with Micro$oft to learn and develop my skills on an operating system which still baffles me 5/6 years after I first touched it. Skill Set (may be some use to someone, someday?) RedHat Certified Engineer (some would say just remove the word RedHat!) Reasonable Pascal Hacker Pathetic C/C++ Hacker Prolific Beer Garden Haunter Hope this wasn't too big for readers out there? Look forward to a (hopefully) interesting experience. Martyn

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Aug '01

15 Aug '01

Andrew Glover said: >Why didnt you 'apt-get install php4' ? Because I'm stupid? In fact, I think I tried apt-get and had various problems. Plus following advice. It's installed fine anyway(she blustered), I just need to be able to load up the lib.php4.so module in apache but don't seem to have it. Ta, Jen

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Re: [Alug] Disk Space for Linux
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Aug '01

15 Aug '01

David Freeman wrote> >This sounds like a challenge for the next meet, competition who can get >the most number of OS's on a disk! The computer i built for the kids has a 1.5 g hd, on which I've squeezed win98 and debian; any more could be pushing it ;-)

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Re: [Alug] Disk Space for Linux
by David Freeman 15 Aug '01

15 Aug '01

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:32:06 +0100 (BST) Adam Bower wrote: > On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, John Seago wrote: > > > There would also seem to a problem with the rest of my rather elderly > > computer recognising the whole of the 40 gigabytes, it seems to be > able to > > `see' only 33 gigabytes of the new disk. Some opinions hold that > when divided > > into separate drives it will be able to `see' the 40 gigabytes, > whilst others > > hold that the rest of its innards need upgrading to be able to > recognise the > > whole 40 gigabytes. > > this sounds like a BIOS problem, how old is the motherboard? you may be > able to get a BIOS update so you can "see" the rest of the disk or you may > have to fiddle around with the hard-disk parameters in the BIOS. Unless > you overcome this it is very (read not) unlikely that you will see the > last 7Gb. Bios Upgrades are fun, powercut mid upgrades trashes the MB completely! > As for how many distros can you get on 1 disk, I once did an experiment > with a friend and a 4Gb disk, we managed to install in no particular order > > MS-DOS 6.2 > Win3.11 > Win 95 > Win NT (server & workstation) > Solaris 7 > Netware 5 > Redhat 5.2 (or maybe 6.0) > SuSE 6.1 > Debian 2.1 > one of the BSDs > Beos 3 This sounds like a challenge for the next meet, competition who can get the most number of OS's on a disk! > and possibly some others that have slipped my mind. the most fun part of > this experiment was working out which order you had to install things in > as making sure that one OS didn't overwrite another OSs bootloader. > > Now I make that at least 11 operating systems, so I challenge you to put > around 110 on your new disk with minimum repetitions ;-) Thanks D PS Tickets yes. > Adam > -- > This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed > Adam > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Disk Space for Linux
by John Seago 15 Aug '01

15 Aug '01

Chris Drane and I have embarked on an experiment, we have installed a 40 gigabyte hard drive in my computer, in order to accommodate a number of Linux distributions. We would like to know what is the optimum size for one Linux distribution, as the Mandrake I have currently installed takes up a little over 2 gigabytes, (in a 5.5 gigabyte partition), how much more space do they needed over the the actual programme itself? There would also seem to a problem with the rest of my rather elderly computer recognising the whole of the 40 gigabytes, it seems to be able to `see' only 33 gigabytes of the new disk. Some opinions hold that when divided into separate drives it will be able to `see' the 40 gigabytes, whilst others hold that the rest of its innards need upgrading to be able to recognise the whole 40 gigabytes. I would welcome suggestions as what to try out in this new found space, I have an ambition to have an installation of Debian, installed by hand and up and running as a long term project, (I've got to learn how to work Mandrake 8 as yet), I've got Red Hat 7.1, (which I found rather `buggy', before I changed to Mandrake). Time is no problem as I retired early. Slackware 8 looks interesting, Progeny would lead in to Debian, and perhaps BSD for the challenge? Divided into 5 gigabyte chunks I would seem to have room for at least 6, and maybe 8 distributions if we can overcome this 33/40 problem. John Seago, (attempting things well beyond his capabilities)

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php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 14 Aug '01

14 Aug '01

Here's a lovely one: I've been re-installing php4 from source. All went well this time. But! The make install command was supposed to have edited my httpd.conf file to enter the dynamic PHP module: LoadModule php4_module libexec/libphp4.so Which it didn't. A search shows I don't appear to have this file. It was no use hopefully editing it in (burying my head in the sand syndrome) as apache is objecting strongly. Is this familiar to anyone? (David? ;-) ) Thanks, Jenny

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Steve Ballmer in action
by Ashley T. Howes 13 Aug '01

13 Aug '01

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20840.html They must be putting something in the water at Microsoft! Ashley Dr. Ashley T. Howes PhD Web Developer Email: ashley(a)blueskyresearch.net Web: http://www.ashleyhowes.com "When he sees the dream he seeks, he will sleep"

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Re: [Alug] Meeting report?
by David Freeman 13 Aug '01

13 Aug '01

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:21:16 GMT Martyn Drake wrote: > Okay, spill the beans - how did yesterday's meet go? :) > > Regards, > > Martyn Having managed to give Mark 125MB of email since 7pm yesterday I think its now safe to post a report. Well My worst fears didn't occur as I got a phone call from Mark at 1pm "Where are you" "getting cash out of a cash point which is giving me a DHCP error" replies I. Once I arrive I get a call from Andrew "I'm at tesco's how do I get to you?" which was duely sorted. 8 people turned up including Steve Fosdick Mark Ray Syd Hancock Neill Newman Andrew Glover Peter Holness Peter Clarke and me. We got the cd-writter and sound working on my new debian install and discovered why I couldn't install netscape. Other than that it was a typical meet with lots of chocy biscuits and stilulating conversation on various subjects. Notable by absence BJ Jen Jo Earl Tarquin So who wants to do the next one? Thanks D > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Meeting report?
by Martyn Drake 13 Aug '01

13 Aug '01

Okay, spill the beans - how did yesterday's meet go? :) Regards, Martyn

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 13 Aug '01

13 Aug '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Tomorrow
by David Freeman 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

All, Just incase any one gets lost, needs directions or needs to contact me for any reason tomorrow, I will have my mobile with me 07751588675 Also we haven't as yet had a volunteer to bring the biscuits :o) Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Friday night ruminations
by David Freeman 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:50:24 +0100 "Jenny Hopkins" wrote: > All - just been looking through all the old digests that I've kept since > joining the list and I noticed some stuff. Quite a fun past time, some amuzing threads in there in places. Don't forget the list is archived for latter black mail purposes :o) > 1. Did I ever courteously let those who helped me with samba know that the > problem was as simple as not having logged off as default user and on as > jenny in windows box, thus network neighbourhood didn't appear? D'oh. It > took months to find that. Always the good ones these, its like spending three days searching through 30000 characters of code to find I had a * instead of a & D'oh! > 2. There is nothing as irritating as a newcomer constantly apologising for > every post (me). Apart from the posts. Oh there is - my posts :o) > 3. There was a lot of discussion earlier in the year about putting > member's > details such as website, irc, mugshots up on the website that fizzled out. I think the website fits into the catorgory of "don't mention the war" (sorry for the Faulty towers link) ATM. > 4. I discovered the mystery large-garden-with-swimming-pool-owner is Chris > Allen. (Chris, come out from under that table...) Why did you discover this AFTER I had organised tomorrow D'oh. Never mind, maybe the next meet :o) > 5. I wondered how the > RD250 in carrier bags was doing (Simon P) RD250? I take it thats a Bike? > I went into a kind of glaze around April, specially when I realised it was > friday night and I was sitting reading old mail on my computer. Nought wrong with that. Hope to see you tomorrow. Thanks D > Jen. > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Linux Expo Birmingham
by David Freeman 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:36:40 +0100 (BST) Adam Bower wrote: > Hi all, > > Linux Expo in Birmingham is just over a month away and I figured that > maybe we should organise an Alug outing to it, as I believe this was > discussed just after the London Expo. It was. and it is. there was a Rumour that it had been cancelled, this was put out on the GLLUG mailing list so can't be curtain. > I am planning to go on September the 12th but want to arrive early because > there is a keynote conference with Bob Young (Redhat) and also Richard > Stallman starting at 10am, this means I may make an arrangement to stay > overnight or something. My hope was to go up the day before by train, camp over night and then go on the 12th so I can see RMS. Side Note: RMS has a lot to say and is a brilliant talker, ecentric and nuts but fanastic, Total Tangent: after RMS did a talk at BTLabs I was lucky enough to get a seat on the same table as him on the train to london, whilst on the train we over heard a discussion between two (media?) students over internet sensership, on hearing this RMS joined in an it was an amuzing debate to watch, whats more after we had left the train I caught up with the (beautiful and female) students and told them who they had just argued with. Boy was their face a picture! Back on topic: In short I highly recommend a RMS talk. > Anyway if you want to pre-register or find out more details visit > http://www.linux-expo.com/ also pre-registration has to be done before > September the 1st. Been there done that:o) I am hoping that lots of people can come and I beleive this will be yet another tribal gathering with some socialising between attending lugs. You never know I may be able to get the 3ft high Tux this time, and we can march through the streets of solihul chanting follow the penguin! :o) Thanks D > Adam > -- > This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed > Adam > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Kmail Message Property
by Syd Hancock 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

Hi all, I'm using Kmail. Should I set the message property in the network section of the Configuration to 'Allow 8 bit' or 'MIME Compliant (quoted printable)'? TIA Syd

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Re: [Alug] brief intro before sunday
by Syd Hancock 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

Mark Thanks for the welcomes (in both senses if I read you correctly :) Syd > [Mandrake 8.0] > > Syd, glad you can join us :-)

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Getting data out of databases
by MJ Ray 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

I'm the secretary of an association and responsible for keeping their membership lists. As a Linux user, it seemed natural to me to keep the membership records in a database and along the way I discovered two applications which make life very much easier for the non-programmer. PostgreSQL is the database that I use, mainly because I like to have all the features available and I have never had any stability problems with it. For database design and data entry, I discovered the handy pgaccess application which presents an interface not dissimilar to a more famous program with a similar name. The notebook window which is displayed when you start up has tabs for Tables, Views, Forms, Queries and so on, while each one contains a list of available items and some actions on them. Once the command "CREATE DATABASE members;" had been given at the psql command line, it was simply a case of inputting the database details into pgaccess's "Open Database" window to be able to start entering the information. pgaccess was downloaded as part of PostgreSQL, available from ftp.postgresql.org/pub and its home page is at http://flex.ro/pgaccess/ The report generator of pgaccess is not yet finished, so I was left with the problem of how to get the data out. I usually use LaTeX for writing letters and reports, so I was quite happy to discover the GNU Report Generator, gurgle, which was originally designed to work with that. To use it, you write a short gurgle script which includes a few definitions, the database query and the template for outputting the data to another file. Here's my script to print envelopes: %%define PHYSDB "members" %%define NAMCOL %%define TEXEXT .tex %%database "members.sql" select name, institution, mailaddress from memberdetails %%header %%record \envelope{%NAME \\ %INSTITUTIO \\ %MAILADDRES} %%footer %%end The first line sets the database name to connect to, the next tells gurgle to use the names from the query, the third says to save the file with the .tex extension, then we have the query. An empty header and footer surround the record template, which simply puts the database results in a call to my "envelope" macro with some line breaks. The file is then included into my envelope printing file (which also contains the association's logo, etc) and any small changes (replacing commas in the address with line breaks, for example) are done before sending the file to the printer and generating a stack of printed envelopes for a mailshot. Gurgle can be downloaded from http://www.gnu.org/directory/GURGLE.html or http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/timc/gurgle/ and has optional modules for GNUSQL, PostgreSQL, MySQL and CA-Ingres databases as well as text dump files. Comments? Improvements? Your alternatives?

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Friday night ruminations
by Jenny Hopkins 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

All - just been looking through all the old digests that I've kept since joining the list and I noticed some stuff. 1. Did I ever courteously let those who helped me with samba know that the problem was as simple as not having logged off as default user and on as jenny in windows box, thus network neighbourhood didn't appear? D'oh. It took months to find that. 2. There is nothing as irritating as a newcomer constantly apologising for every post (me). Apart from the posts. 3. There was a lot of discussion earlier in the year about putting member's details such as website, irc, mugshots up on the website that fizzled out. 4. I discovered the mystery large-garden-with-swimming-pool-owner is Chris Allen. (Chris, come out from under that table...)5. I wondered how the RD250 in carrier bags was doing (Simon P) I went into a kind of glaze around April, specially when I realised it was friday night and I was sitting reading old mail on my computer. Jen.

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Linux Expo Birmingham
by Adam Bower 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

Hi all, Linux Expo in Birmingham is just over a month away and I figured that maybe we should organise an Alug outing to it, as I believe this was discussed just after the London Expo. I am planning to go on September the 12th but want to arrive early because there is a keynote conference with Bob Young (Redhat) and also Richard Stallman starting at 10am, this means I may make an arrangement to stay overnight or something. Anyway if you want to pre-register or find out more details visit http://www.linux-expo.com/ also pre-registration has to be done before September the 1st. Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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Sunday
by David Freeman 11 Aug '01

11 Aug '01

All, Update on the meet this sunday: We have the hut from 1pm so can start off from then. I have had a request for directions for people who wish to come by boat, instructions are: OS map coordinates 24405 45336 (OS Landranger map 169 I believe) Lat/Long N 52 degrees 03.627 mins, E 1 degree 16.438 mins (OS datum) Also the BBQ is a non starter(not enough interest), I suggest that we go to the PUB which is about 20yrds away. I hope to see you all on sunday. Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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brief intro before sunday
by syd 10 Aug '01

10 Aug '01

Hi All I'm hoping to come to the meet on sunday so I thought I'd give a brief intro. I've played around with computers and telecoms for about 14 years but still know surprisingly little. I am one of life's dabblers and now I'm dabbling into linux. I've played around with a few distributions recently and at the moment have mandrake 8.0 installed with KDE 2.11. Yesteray evening I tried setting up the internet access and within a few minutes was on line. Very impressed. So here in tribute is my first email message using linux (apart from a test send and receive which doesn't count). I know it's not really 'installing' or 'managing linux' in any technical sense - using an installer that auto configfures everything, using a few menus in KDE to set things up - but all the same, for a newbie like me it is great to have something tthat I can actually use while I start looking around under the bonnet. I bought and read a lot of 'Running Linux' two years ago. It's fascinating but does give the impression that al of that hand-editing of config files and using the command line is the only way to install and use linux. So when I first tried out a Storm Linux CD last year I was absolutely gobsmacked to find a GUI desktop coming up. Who'd have known? I know it sounds daft but there must be many others who think like that after looking at the recommended books. I really don't think that the linux community puts over how easy it is to install and use, at least to do a few simple things like browse the web and send a few emails etc. (I'm assuming that it still works today of course when I come to send this in a few minutes :) Anyway, I know I'm boring all you non-quiche-eating sysadmins out there but if there are any other newbies lurking on the list, wondering whether to dive in, then I just want to say - go for it and have a go. With a beginners distribution at least, it really does seem to be pretty straightforward - if I'm not tempting providence, fingers crossed and pass the garlic. Hope to meet some of you on sunday - hopefully I won't be the only peson who doesn't know their xml from their sql Regards Syd PS - I will be driving so anyone from the Norwich area need a lift - email me.

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Re: [Alug] This meeting thingy
by David Freeman 10 Aug '01

10 Aug '01

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:25:35 +0100 Steve Fosdick wrote: > On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 08:13:33AM +0000, David Freeman wrote: > > > its a 35 min bus ride from Ipswich station, and will cost about £205 > > return (long time since I used it) > > Two pounds and fivepence, or two hundred and five pounds? > > Steve. D'oh oops that should be 2.05 ukp Sorry D > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] This meeting thingy
by David Freeman 09 Aug '01

09 Aug '01

On 08 Aug 2001 20:53:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote: > Q1. Does anyone from K.Lynn - Thetford - Bury want a lift to the next > meeting? Not sure. I think Jen may be on that sort of area, but I think she is bringing the bike. > Q2. If not, how long does it take to get from Ipswich's train station > to the venue? And how much? its a 35 min bus ride from Ipswich station, and will cost about £205 return (long time since I used it) > Q3. What are we supposed to bringing? Beer, gifts and T-shirts for me and a little money for the pub afterwards :o) Seriously, its just like any normal meet. We wont be doing the BBQ afterwards as I can't get permission to burn the green down, so the plan now stands at going to the pub which is only 20 yrds from the hut. OS map coordinates 24405 45336 (OS Landranger map 169 I believe) Lat/Long N 52 degrees 03.627 mins, E 1 degree 16.438 mins (OS datum) For those who need them Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Wireless LANS and DMCA
by David Freeman 09 Aug '01

09 Aug '01

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010806S0006 Is an interesting article on how the WEP encryption on Wireless LANS has been comprimised, there is a paper being released next week on it. One thing I note here is no case has been bought under the DMCA for circumventing copy protection measures, which is what you could say WEP is if they say CSS is copy protection for DVD! Also for those who care there is a DMCA equivlent currently going through the EU which will be a big problem see www.eurocrimes.org Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Latex help
by Alexis Lee 09 Aug '01

09 Aug '01

I have a Latex table (begin{tabular}), and I want it to break one of the columns if it needs to. So rather than: <------------ size of page ------------> /---------------------------------------------------\ | field | field | long field | field | | field | field | long long long long field | field | | field | field | long field | field | \---------------------------------------------------/ I get: /--------------------------------------\ | field | field | long field | field | | field | field | long long | field | | | | long long | | | | | field | | | field | field | long field | field | \--------------------------------------/ Anyone? Alexis -- Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. "Democracy is an appalling system of government, but it is seven times better than any other" - Churchill "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok

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How big should a swap partition be?
by David Freeman 09 Aug '01

09 Aug '01

Ok, not being that great an expert at linux installs, I am wondering what people would recommend for the swap partition size, I have 384MB of ram, so am thinking a 256MB swap file is plenty for what I will be doing. What do others think? Also dare I ask what peoples views are on partitioning? Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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How big should a swap partition be?
by tom potts 09 Aug '01

09 Aug '01

Redhat 7.1 seems to thing that ram*2 is necessary which may surprise you - I thought about taking all but 32meg out and then installing! I've 256Meg on my laptop and even running Sql/IIs/Forte and a background search/index engine under W2K its not all used so under Linux if your not running everything under the Sun I would have thought you would only want swap when something goes pear shaped. Tom ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Sun monitors.
by PleXeR 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

Hi, Check out: http://www2.tk.elec.waseda.ac.jp/~tanaka/private/monitor-e.html For details of the adapter you need to make. Cheers, Ben

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This meeting thingy
by MJ Ray 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

Q1. Does anyone from K.Lynn - Thetford - Bury want a lift to the next meeting? Q2. If not, how long does it take to get from Ipswich's train station to the venue? And how much? Q3. What are we supposed to bringing?

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Re: [Alug] How big should a swap partition be?
by David Freeman 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:06:51 +0100 (BST) Adam Bower wrote: > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, David Freeman wrote: > > > people would recommend for the swap partition size, I have 384MB of ram, > > so am thinking a 256MB swap file is plenty for what I will be > doing. What > > do others think? > > hmmm, what will you be doing?? and also how big is your disk? I have 768Mb > of Ram and a 1gig swap partition but I also have a 40Gb disk so space is > not an issue, I am playing with big images (upto 300mb each) in the gimp > and blender, I also run VMware with lots of resources given to virtual > machines. Big images in GIMP, plex86, Video capture, MP3 enc, CAD, electonics design, Surfing, LaTeX pretty much sumerises what I will be doing, oh and quake. > > Also dare I ask what peoples views are on partitioning? > > I seperate /var (around 800mb) /boot (around 30mb) /usr (around 4Gb on my > machine here but depends on how much spare disk you have) /tmp (around > 300mb) / (around 180mb) /etc (around 40mb) and /home however big you need > it. Of course you can use less space for these but I have the spare disk > so I am not bothered. Why do you seperate all of the above? Thanks D > Adam > -- > This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed > Adam > -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Re: The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by David Freeman 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

On 08 Aug 2001 10:08:41 +0100 Martyn Drake wrote: > On 07 Aug 2001 16:08:29 +0000, David Freeman wrote: > > > Sorry, my crap english, I mean I can't run anything on the server, it > > runs zues/apache/what ever and will serve html, that is the only > constant > > I have. > > I should just mention that the Alug web server currently runs version > 3.4r1 of the Zeus web server along with the FastCGI version of PHP > 4.0.6. In addition, MySQL is running on it, but it's only being used to > serve a couple of my personal sites. It did run Zope for a bit, but > it's a pain in the arse getting it to work with Zeus properly. Ok. I didn't realise it was all on there and didn't like to ask after you set up, mail and web for us. But whilst on the subbject, do you have a IMAP server on the machine? > Therefore, you can run PHP code David - it's enabled on all sites on the > box :) If you need a MySQL database I can set-up an account for you. How difficult is the mysql stuff to set up? I don't want to be a pain in the arse and hog bandwidth/cycles. > Mind you, I'm not likely to shy away from Zeus to Apache having paid > £1,500 for the thing several years ago, and I'm still very impressed > with the scability and performance aspect of it :) Makes sense. Just out of interest why did you go for Zeus over Apache? Thanks D > Regards, > > Martyn -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Re: The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by David Freeman 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:54:39 +0100 (BST) Paul Tansom wrote: > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, David Freeman wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:19:20 +0100 "Earl Brannigan" wrote: > <snip> > > Great in theory but I can't put anything other than plain old HTML. > > I think you can use scripting with it from what I've read on the site > so far, > lathough I have to say I am looking further into this because I have > to, not > becaues I want to! We are going to be using Zope for our site at > work so I've > been told having started serious perl coding already. From what I've > installed > and seen so far I'm not inspired with confidence of its flexibility, and I > definately didn't like the small text input box that I appear to have to > type/past my html pages into. Of course I haven't look far into it > yet so I > could be wrong/unjustly biased! Sorry, my crap english, I mean I can't run anything on the server, it runs zues/apache/what ever and will serve html, that is the only constant I have. I think for now I am going to concentrate on making it look good, as although it gives the info well, it is a triffle bland. What sort of color combinations do people recommend? Thanks D > --- > Paul Tansom: Talking to penguins can be inTUXicating, whereas > talking to windows is only 1 step away from Talking to the wall! > --- > Smoothwall firewall/router project: http://www.smoothwall.org/ > Smoothwall project community contact: community(a)smoothwall.org -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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MSN park bench in Bury
by Adam Bower 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Hi all, Have just seen this on the news a few mins ago, and there appears to be no interest in the internet bench (what a surprise). Now I thought I may go and do Microsoft a favour and help publicise their park bench, of course I think a Mandrake 7.1 giveaway (we do still have about a million cds I think) and showing people how great linux is would be ideal! and it will allow us to show how we can integrate linux with M$ hardware. Anyway if you want to have a laugh I may do it sometime either in the week next week, or if enough people are interested then we can do it on the weekend. Let me know what you think, Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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Re: [Alug] Here's an interesting game to play
by MJ Ray 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > It does this three times, so it's not very efficient. Can anyone suggest > another fair means to do this, reading the whole file at most once? Either read the whole thing into an array, splitting on "\n.\n" instead of line breaks, or keep meta-data to indicate how many sigs are there. It's an ancient tradeoff.

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Cheep Hubs?
by NuTTeR =) 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Dose any one know where i can get a cheep hub(RJ-45 connection's, 4 or more ports) from? the cheeper the better im only a Mc D'z worker(or will be 2morrow) and second hand is gr8 :). Also do u know if newhere in norfolk is selling/chucking out old hardware and will not mind giving it 2 a cheep student? I live in the Kings lynn/Noritch area. Thanx Alot if u can help :) --- "Why is dyslexia so hard to sqell?" --- -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze

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Cheep Hub's?
by NuTTeR =) 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Dose any one know where i can get a cheep hub(RJ-45 connection's, 4 or more ports) from? the cheeper the better im only a Mc D'z worker(or will be 2morrow) and second hand is gr8 :). Also do u know if newhere in norfolk is selling/chucking out old hardware and will not mind giving it 2 a cheep student? I live in the Kings lynn/Noritch area. Thanx Alot if u can help :) --- "Why is dyslexia so hard to sqell?" --- -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Abstraction
by MJ Ray 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > So the question is still out, how can I generate my pages for upload onto > the server. Please bear in mind that I can ONLY USE HTML on the server. Makefiles are wonderful things. > As for the comment above about the usual suspects not replying I would > like you to explain this! Your mail client generates neither In-Reply-To or References, so I can't ever see what you were talking about after I read your first message unless I search the spool and that's more effort, so less likely to occur.

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Sun cables
by David Freeman 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Does anyone know what the pinouts are for a sun Monitor plug, I have a Sun IPC I would like to connect to a normal monitor? Also how different are sun keyboards to PS/2? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Here's an interesting game to play
by Alexis Lee 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

I have a sigs file of the form: <count> . sig . sig . and so on. Right now I use a perl script to generate a random number between 0 and (count-1), skip that many sigs and copy the next one into .signature. It does this three times, so it's not very efficient. Can anyone suggest another fair means to do this, reading the whole file at most once? I can reformat the sigs file if it would make the problem easier, but I don't want to include any more 'metasig' than I have to, since that would make my Vim macros excessively complicated. Each sig can contain anything except /^\.$/. Alexis ps. Here are some interesting things to say... (paraphrase, Dr. Seuss) -- The more you know, the more you know you don't know. Corollary: Those who know nothing think they know everything. "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok "Don't say don't quote me, because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying" - KMFDM, Dogma

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Re: [Alug] re: Abstraction
by MJ Ray 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > My way, it would be 7. It would also be easier to get extra candy in, > like a datestamp on every file. (You'd have to split tail into tail1 and > tail2, then cat tail1 >> product.html; date >> product.html; cat tail2 > >> product.html) Any scripting language offering regexps would make it fairly easy to build the site from templates and external files. 6 pages would need 9 files (6 content, 1 template, 1 build script, 1 Makefile). This is more or less how I build my website at http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ I don't see how you arrived at a total 7 files unless you're doing some nasty things in the content ones?

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Re: [Alug] re: Abstraction
by David Freeman 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:02:33 -0400 Alexis Lee wrote: > What I understand you want is a way to generate pages with a customisable > sidebar and main page on your home computer, which can then be uploaded to > a static webspace. Bingo, exactly what I want! No more no less. > You certainly don't need a database for this ($0.02: pg). You don't > need to > learn a 'web language' such as PHP for it; since you're going to be > throwing > text into files, C could do it. But web languages weren't designed by > fools. Yup, RDBMS is over kill for what I want. > You can build PHP as a CGI executable (which can then be used just > like any > UNIX CLI app), pipe your source through that, and upload the result. > Alternatively, you could set up Apache/PHP on your home machine > hosting the > pages. Use wget to grab each page into export/, rename all to end in .html > (for X in `ls export'; do mv $X ${X%.php}.html; done), then upload to your > space. getting more like it, although PHP does not ender itself to me > AFA designing your source goes, I'd suggest something like this: > > > html.php: > <? > function htmlopen() { > // html, head and body tags; set up for the sidebar content > } > function htmlsplit() { > // close sidebar, open main page > } > function htmlclose() { > // footer, close main page, close html > } > ?> > > > mainpage.php: > <? > include_once('html.php'); > htmlopen(); > // sidebar content > htmlsplit(); > // main page content > htmlclose(); > ?> > > > That looks fairly simple to me, and it shouldn't be too hard to add extra > sections to the layout later on. I learnt PHP from the reference > manual, and > I knew enough to write that after day one. cat head body tail > index.html :o) I think this is the most sensible suggestion sofar, I am just skeptical about PHP, my past history with it is not good (3 weeks trying (and failing) to install it last year! The one I am surprised no one has mentioned is Slashcode! Thanks D > Alexis > -- > "Don't say don't quote me, because if no one quotes you, you probably > haven't > said a thing worth saying" - KMFDM, Dogma > "Imagine a world without hypothetical situations" - Bram Moolenaar > `man` first, ask questions later. > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Re: The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by MJ Ray 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Paul Tansom <paul(a)whaletales.co.uk> writes: > and seen so far I'm not inspired with confidence of its flexibility, and I > definately didn't like the small text input box that I appear to have to > type/past my html pages into. Of course I haven't look far into it yet so I > could be wrong/unjustly biased! Well, you can enable an FTP service on it too, but you'll want to be restricting that to specific domains for upload, IMO, and files uploaded in that way don't get types set correctly (at least not when I was doing it). The FTP also confuses some (many?) badly-behaved windows clients, as you can't list the starting or root directory if you're a normal user. I'd love to hear that there was a new upload method and/or FTP set object types correctly now.

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Re: The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:19:20 +0100 "Earl Brannigan" wrote: > David, > One word... ZOPE > www.zope.org > In a box, if you haven't got a functional site within an hour, and if you > can't get a more site up and running in basic form within a day of reading > the tutorial (included in installation) > then your a donkey!!! > Have now donned asbestos clothing and await.... > Regards > Earl Earl, Great in theory but I can't put anything other than plain old HTML. Thanks D PS EuroDMCA is scary! ===== -- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Sun cables
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 23:12:56 +0100 Neill Newman wrote: > David Freeman wrote: > > > > Does anyone know what the pinouts are for a sun Monitor plug, I have a > > Sun IPC I would like to connect to a normal monitor? > > aahh that old chestnut, I tried that a while back, it's not as easy as > just hacking the cables.. Oh goodie. > The sun monitors have RGB and sync on the green signal, but standard VGA > has seperate sync lines, you need to either get a graphics card that can > do sync on green, or hack teh sun monitor and patch the sync into the > right place on the board.. A friend has modifoed a SGI monitor to do > this, but it took him a while... This looks fun, will need to do more of a Google. > to be honest, an IPC is about the same speed as a 33MHz 486 (ish!), I > have an IPX as a doorstop ;) Whats wrong with a 486 33? I still have two 386's which are in use! I use a IPX as a monitor stand! > > > > Also how different are sun keyboards to PS/2? > > erm.. no idea about that one... Cheers D > Sz > > > > > Thanks > > > > D > > > > ===== > > -------------------- > > "We all know Linux is great... > > it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." > > Linus Torvalds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > -- > Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ > Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368 ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Abstraction
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:35:09 +0100 Richard George wrote: > On Sunday 05 August 2001 10:27 pm, David Freeman wrote: > > yes you suggested I use a language which mixes content with formatting, > > requires two new services be installed on the server and something which > > took 7 months to code, I want something I can knock up in an evening and > > then just add content to easily. I also want something which can > have the > > format changed easily perhaps with the editing of one file. > > Obviously I'm wasting my time trying to help you here, and I can only > assume > that this is why those more familiar with your posting here have not even > attempted to do so. I'm not going to repeat the reasons why what you have > written above is innacurate, as it's really of no interest to me if > you write > your pages in C, M4, perl, Fortran or Cobol. I shall just wish you > good luck > and consider this conversation closed. Well stop being a zipper head and turn your hearing aid up! Its quite simple, I beleive I have explained this in other mails. I can not be certain that my hosting will always have PHP or the practical alternative to RDMBS (MySQL) and as such your option is no good, especially if it will take me many months to code. You have yet to give me any endering reasons for me to choose it. Also PHP is notorious for heavily loading a server, ask Adam about his MySQL and PHP horror stories. I want a simple system for generating what I have at the moment from say a list of text files. The PHP code someone else had can be done equally simply by a simple shell script. Put head in file head, body in body and tail in tail cat head body tail > index.html Somehow I think PHP is a bit bloated for this. I did also say in my original mail that PHP was out. Last summer I spent 3 weeks trying to get it to install, it never even compiled! Most of what PHP can do Perl does just as well. So the question is still out, how can I generate my pages for upload onto the server. Please bear in mind that I can ONLY USE HTML on the server. As for the comment above about the usual suspects not replying I would like you to explain this! Thanks D > Richard > ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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The ongoing best way to do a website debate
by Earl Brannigan 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

David, One word... ZOPE www.zope.org In a box, if you haven't got a functional site within an hour, and if you can't get a more site up and running in basic form within a day of reading the tutorial (included in installation) then your a donkey!!! Have now donned asbestos clothing and await.... Regards Earl

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re: Abstraction
by Alexis Lee 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

What I understand you want is a way to generate pages with a customisable sidebar and main page on your home computer, which can then be uploaded to a static webspace. You certainly don't need a database for this ($0.02: pg). You don't need to learn a 'web language' such as PHP for it; since you're going to be throwing text into files, C could do it. But web languages weren't designed by fools. You can build PHP as a CGI executable (which can then be used just like any UNIX CLI app), pipe your source through that, and upload the result. Alternatively, you could set up Apache/PHP on your home machine hosting the pages. Use wget to grab each page into export/, rename all to end in .html (for X in `ls export'; do mv $X ${X%.php}.html; done), then upload to your space. AFA designing your source goes, I'd suggest something like this: html.php: <? function htmlopen() { // html, head and body tags; set up for the sidebar content } function htmlsplit() { // close sidebar, open main page } function htmlclose() { // footer, close main page, close html } ?> mainpage.php: <? include_once('html.php'); htmlopen(); // sidebar content htmlsplit(); // main page content htmlclose(); ?> That looks fairly simple to me, and it shouldn't be too hard to add extra sections to the layout later on. I learnt PHP from the reference manual, and I knew enough to write that after day one. Alexis -- "Don't say don't quote me, because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying" - KMFDM, Dogma "Imagine a world without hypothetical situations" - Bram Moolenaar `man` first, ask questions later.

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Re: [Alug] Abstraction
by David Freeman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:16:51 +0100 Richard George wrote: > On Sunday 05 August 2001 9:41 pm, David wrote: > > OK, so my web of mail seams to have been distorted into a holy war > before > > I got a good answer. > > > > So this still leaves me with how can I seperate content from formatting > > such as to give an elegant and simple solution which doesn't need a week > > to code, two high level languages, a relation database and an > excerise in > > normalisation. > > You have my answer, reasons, and example. I apologise if it wasn't "good". > If you want any more info, let me know - I'm no expert, but I know > what works > for me. yes you suggested I use a language which mixes content with formatting, requires two new services be installed on the server and something which took 7 months to code, I want something I can knock up in an evening and then just add content to easily. I also want something which can have the format changed easily perhaps with the editing of one file. > Yes, the example took 7 months to code, uses DBs, CSS and js as well > as PHP, > but these are all optional. In between all that, it lets me modify > the site > from a small number of files - which I think pretty much serves your > purpose. > > Rereading your initial mail, it suggests that you want to reformat > prior to > upload; I can't say I have any brilliant suggestions on how to do > that, as I > think the more normal method would be server-side modification or CSS. Yup, I can't guarentee that I will have PHP and mysql on every server I ever use so it gives me compatablity issues, I want simple HTML, no more no less with CSS and a nice easy way to add to it. Thanks D > Richard > -- > Technical Webmaster, http://www.cyclists.org.uk/ > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Abstraction
by David Freeman 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

OK, so my web of mail seams to have been distorted into a holy war before I got a good answer. So this still leaves me with how can I seperate content from formatting such as to give an elegant and simple solution which doesn't need a week to code, two high level languages, a relation database and an excerise in normalisation. Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Profanity
by David Freeman 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

"the only language all progammers understand is profanity" Has anyone Ever heard of the programming language, "Universe"? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] IRC Nick names
by David Freeman 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

On 05 Aug 2001 13:39:24 +0100 MJ Ray wrote: > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > I would just like to remind members that it is incredibly rude to take > > the Nick of another Member. I cannot emphasis enough how offensive this > > and if it is done again action will be taken. > > Nicknames are not owned, although nickserv thinks differently to me on > that one and will win in a fair fight. This is true, how ever Taking a nick for the purpose of impersonating someone is rude. Especially as the only thing which has ever been able to impersonate my writing style accuratly and fool people was a perl script written by James McGowan at BT (not sure where he works now) Thanks D > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Web of mail
by MJ Ray 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

Raphael Mankin <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> writes: > > * Encourages mixing of code, layout and content > But that is its whole rasion d'etre. As it is for TTK and mason. I'm not saying that's a good thing... > > * It has an object system but no-one uses it > You clearly mix in the werong company. Mix with quality design and > implementation teams and you will find that the object system is > used, and used consistently and extensively. "No-one" is an approximation. Please assume a 1% observation error, as usual. ;-) > > * It has all the security problems given in the "study in scarlet" doc > It is quite possible to write bad PHP, as well as bad perl or C/C++. It is > also possible to write good PHP. *Possible* but far more difficult and no-one (see above) does. Interestingly, I don't like perl either. The better string handling is nice and is the main reason I use it at all any more, but the price of the bolted-on and under-used OO system is too high.

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[Cyril Bouthors <cyril@bouthors.org>] Geographical representation of Free Software Developpers
by MJ Ray 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

From: Cyril Bouthors <cyril(a)bouthors.org> Subject: Geographical representation of Free Software Developpers Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:54:32 +0200 Hello, A tool allowing geographical representation of Free Software Developpers and organizations on a terrestrial globe map is now available at http://france.fsfeurope.org/coposys/index.en.html I'd like to reach as much people as possible involved in the Free Software Foundation. Please have a look and register. Please feel free to forward this announcement to other appropriate mailing lists. Thank you for your patience. -- Cyril Bouthors -- phone:+33 1 41 66 47 06 fax:+33 1 41 66 47 10

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Re: [Alug] Web of mail
by Martyn Drake 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

On 04 Aug 2001 23:44:52 +0100 Andrew John Savory wrote: > Gah! Sorry, but MySQL is probably the worst choice you could ever > make if you want to use SQL or have a dynamic web site. For > goodness sake, please use a PROPER database! Oracle, Postgres, even > SQL Server is a better choice than MySQL. Where I work, we're nowing using Postgres for all new clients. We will be converting the majority of clients that use MySQL over to Postgres over the course of many months. But everbody agrees that Postgres is the way to go.. Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Web of mail
by MJ Ray 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

"D" <dsc(a)clara.net> writes: > PHP/MySQL one of the best combinations for any website! PHP is bad because... * Encourages mixing of code, layout and content * It has an object system but no-one uses it * It has all the security problems given in the "study in scarlet" doc MySQL is bad because... * It encourages use of lots of non-standard SQL extensions * It doesn't crash neatly (full disks are sometimes fun) * Its performance for non-trivial operations is often suboptimal Why do I fell like dropping chaff now?

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Re: [Alug] Document Formats
by MJ Ray 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > I have just tried to download a document from the web site of my local > MEP only to find its in bloody MS Word Format! Antiword, Abiword, even StarOffice/OpenOffice. It can be very entertaining to run strings over it and see what they didn't mean to publish, though ;-)

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Re: [Alug] test message
by MJ Ray 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

Andrew John Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Actually, I've just switched to Evolution, as I was getting fed up with > mutt's misbehaviour. I have to say, I'd thoroughly recommend it to > anyone looking for a decent GUI Outlook-style mail client. Aside from a > few annoying crashes (hey, it *is* beta), it's a very nice package. > > I particularly like the absurdly easy to configure mail filtering. > Goodbye procmail, you won't be missed! Well, while people are recommending stupid email clients, I'll just mention that Gnus does everything you could ever possibly wish for in a mail client, including indexed mail spools (for fast searching, no database server required), write-and-forget automatic mail filtering (such silliness as auto-creation of new folders is possible), adaptive scoring (watches what you read and scores up and down as needed) and of course off-line newsgroup reading from multiple servers. The price for this power is a bit of extra effort to set the damn thing up. If you know (X)Emacs already, it will help. As with all mail clients though, back up your mail before trying it ;-)

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Re: [Alug] IRC Nick names
by MJ Ray 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > I would just like to remind members that it is incredibly rude to take > the Nick of another Member. I cannot emphasis enough how offensive this > and if it is done again action will be taken. Nicknames are not owned, although nickserv thinks differently to me on that one and will win in a fair fight.

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Re: [Alug] Code Red worm is unreliable because...
by MJ Ray 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

Since modularisation of apache, it looks like all but one of those alerts are in extension modules. Interesting :-)

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Re: [Alug] Grub Glorious Grub!
by David Freeman 05 Aug '01

05 Aug '01

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:43:20 +0100 Steve Fosdick wrote: > On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 12:27:19AM +0100, Adam Bower wrote: > > > What I meant to actually say in simple english was that I believe > > the MBR only stores the current active partition and looks there for > > the boot record instruction bit. > > Perhaps it would help to understand more of the boot process, so here > it as to the best of my knowledge. > <snip discription of how linux boots> I have just worked out who borrowed the understanding the Linux Kernel book at the last meet :o) Steve, will you be at the next meet? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Next Meeting
by David Freeman 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Ok I have finally written a web page for the next meet, complete with MAPs! http://freemadi.alug.org.uk/alug/martlemeet.html or http://www.alug.org.uk/freemadi/alug/martlemeet.html ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Web of mail
by David Freeman 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Two things: 1) I have moved my mail from david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com to david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk so please update your address books 2) At the moment my web page is generated through make and a lot of abuse of GCC's C preprocessor using #define and some other weird and wonderful features for which it was never designed. However this is not the best way of doing it, can anyone recommend a better dynamic method of generating web pages for upload, PHP has appeal but looks very OTT to me. Anyone suggesting M4 will be forced to buy me a drink and then be shot! Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Document Formats
by David Freeman 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Time for my weekly rant! <rant> I have just tried to download a document from the web site of my local MEP only to find its in bloody MS Word Format! Now this is a theme I am seeing recuring across the web, people feeling that it is perfectly acceptable to publish things in the appalling format that is MS word documents! I have just emailed the web master of the site to request they stop doing it but think its pissing in the wind. This means more and more people will find it acceptable. Even tho Post script and PDF are perfectly acceptable and free formats with freely available readers which don't rely on the monopoly. next step is to request your.page.is.using.a.non.free.format.for.publishing.documents.this.is.restrictive.please.stop.it and see what they do! Ok rant over </rant> Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Web of mail
by David Freeman 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 01:43:21 +0100 (BST) oms101(a)freeuk.com wrote: > > On 03-Aug-01 David Freeman wrote: > > Two things: > > > > 1) I have moved my mail from david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com to > > david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk so please update your address books > > > > 2) At the moment my web page is generated through make and a lot of > abuse > > of GCC's C preprocessor using #define and some other weird and wonderful > > features for which it was never designed. However this is not the best > > way of doing it, can anyone recommend a better dynamic method of > > generating web pages for upload, PHP has appeal but looks very OTT > to me. > > Anyone suggesting M4 will be forced to buy me a drink and then be shot! > > > > Thanks > > > > D > > M4 is evil to my mind also, I remember the faces at the end of a > manlug talk on > sendmail's config when I asked would people use M4 for their projects. M4 is a horrid, I think the C preprocessor does it all much better. > Anyway whats your web address wo we can all have a look. Its http://freemadi.alug.org.uk/ its still very very very much under development. I don't think there are any spelling mistakes but In think I need to check the links again. Also the HTML needs tiding up and I will eventually put CSS in. > My session management system has been delayed by me playing with > kylix, but it > is simple. PHP is nice and fast to develop I here but I have also > heard very > good things about perls template model for web page generation but perl's > not my cup of tea. I would be playing with AXkit if it was. (perls > templates > are not the same as c++ templates). I am warming to perl, I am starting to like it. Although it can be a very write only language. > Maybe you could give us a list of features you wish to support Basically I want a uniform look and feel which is wrapped round the content. I also want the menu on the left to vary depending on what page you are on i.e. on the diving page you see all the Diving pages options but not the computer ones, just the top levels. I also want something which generates validated html which I can then ftp up so it is static but I keep content from the look and feel. I also want to use CSS but haven't found a good intro to it yet. > Owen > > > Date: 04-Aug-01 Time: 01:36:48 Your clocks wrong, I make it Date: 04-Aug-01 Time: 18:48:42 Thanks D > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Alug] Grub Glorious Grub!
by MJ Ray 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > This is partly to say that I am testing postfix mailserver and am > playing fith sender_canonical option to get it to work with alug and > partly to ask the following which did not get through You probably should have sent it to the list, not me personally. As I said, if you blow your Linux partition away, you'll blow most of LILO away too. -- MJR

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Compaq DL380 and RedHat..
by Simon Parkes 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Hi Guys... Anyone installed RH on a Compaq DL380, Raid5 etc... ??? I'm having "none-specific" problems installing... Usually locking up at random points during installation. But on occasion, failing to see the array (after installing correct driver from Compaq).. Any ideas ??? Also when's the next meet as if I can't sort it I'll bring it along for someone who feels lucky to have a go... Simon

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Opportunity for study/travel
by John Seago 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Take a look at the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust pages at:- http://www.wcmt.org.uk/cat.htm the category for technicians/support staff seems to offer an opportunity that one of you may be able to take up. John Seago

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.KODE event all invited
by Tim Bateman 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

I am contacting all local LUGs (that I've found) and inviting them to .KODE2001. Its an event being held at Essex University (Colchester) and will be lasting a week (24th~31st August). Basically is an open-source coding party. We only have 50 places, we are not only looking for coders, we're looking for people to help with the managing of 40~ coders and the project. Anyone could be useful, but we do need C(++) coders. The main area of the project is based on a Linux server, as windows C++ would be useful, Linux coding experience would be great. For more information please see our site (www.dotkode.org), there isn't a huge about of data on the site at the moment, but it should answer most of your questions. If it doesn't please feel free to contact me on tabate(a)essex.ac.uk. I look forward to seeing some of you soon. Tim Bateman --------------------------------- My programs don't have bugs, they have unexpected random features. ---------------------------------

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Courses?
by John Seago 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Is there a one day course available on Linux/Unix for beginners, anywhere in an arc drawn using Halesworth as a centre and taking in Norwich and Ipswich? I have specified a one day course as I find that following a whole day awake I have to spend the next in bed, (or at least asleep for most of the day). I am finding that due to my intake of painkillers I seem to lack the self-discipline to learn on my own. I have a tendency to go on to the Internet for information, follow the links, wander of down some obscure by-way, and when BT cuts me off after 2 hours, find I spent the entire time reading stuff which may or may not be useful, but which did catch my interest. Such are the benefits of very early retirement. John Seago

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Announcing a beta release of Red Hat Linux: Roswell
by oms101＠freeuk.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Something I found on a Man lug related group fyi... -----Original Message----- From: Bill Nottingham [mailto:notting@redhat.com] Sent: 02 August 2001 13:05 To: redhat-watch-list(a)redhat.com Subject: Announcing a beta release of Red Hat Linux: Roswell It has come to our attention that rumors are floating regarding the appearance of a Red Hat Linux beta release, named ROSWELL. We would like to reassure you that there is nothing of the sort. No other object has been misidentified as a Red Hat Linux beta release more often than Rawhide. Rawhide was updated just recently. Reporters probably thought they saw something on an FTP site other than Rawhide, but we assure you, it was Rawhide. Reports cite that this supposed ROSWELL beta included 4 CDs of software, with such things as a 2.4.6 Linux kernel, XFree86 4.1.0, KDE 2.2pre, GNOME 1.4, and journaling file system support, and included support for both x86 and ia64. Were any such Red Hat Linux beta release to exist, it would not be recommended for use on mission-critical hardware, and any casualties due to data loss, mutation, swamp gas, radiation, or strange glowing lights with such a release would be scoffed at. Any problems or bugs with such a release would most likely be the effect of passing weather balloons. These problems would be reported at: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/ However, there is no evidence to suggest the actual presence of a ROSWELL beta release. Those who claim otherwise would best not flaunt their naivete by telling anyone that they saw anything other than Rawhide. Documents pertaining to this supposed beta release are available at: ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ Or, at the following mirror sites: Alabama, USA: http://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ Massachusetts, USA: http://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/beta/roswell/ ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/beta/roswell/ New York, USA: ftp://ftp.cse.buffalo.edu/pub/Linux/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ ftp://mirror.phy.bnl.gov/pub/redhat-pub/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ Pennsylvania, USA: ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/r oswell/ Washington, DC, USA: ftp://ftp.dc.us.telia.net/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ Czech Republic: ftp://ftp.linux.cz/pub/linux/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ France: ftp://ftp.free.fr/mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ ftp://ftp.uvsq.fr/pub/linux/distributions/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ Germany: ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/redhat-ftp/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ Israel: ftp://ftp.cs.huji.ac.il/mirror/linux/redhat/ftp/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ Romania: ftp://ftp.warp.ro/pub/mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/redhat/linux/beta/roswell/ or check http://www.redhat.com/download/mirror.html for a mirror near you. For more information on this sighting, send mail to: roswell-list-request(a)redhat.com with subscribe in the subject line. You can leave the body empty. Or see: https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/roswell-list/ _______________________________________________ Redhat-watch-list mailing list To unsubscribe, visit: https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-watch-list Date: 02-Aug-01 Time: 20:45:05

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Re: [Alug] Code Red worm is unreliable because...
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

I suspect that they are most likely fixed now though! Bing Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk>@stu.uea.ac.uk on 02/08/2001 13:07:12 Sent by: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] Code Red worm is unreliable because... David Freeman wrote: > > > Just out of interest how many security holes have been found in apache? erm.. from what I can remember, over the last 5 years there have been quite a few apache buglets ;) Sz -- Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368 _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Re: Xnest (2)
by Steve Fosdick 02 Aug '01

02 Aug '01

Andrew et al. Further to my last message, the extra options I mentioned appear to be those that work with a normal X server (normal, rather than nested). One interesting use for this is to open a session on another unix station that uses XDMCP to log in and where you wouldn't want the session and window managers from that other machine interfering with your local machine. Just say: Xnest :1 -query hostname Where 'hostname' is the host you want to log in to. The other options are documented in the man page 'Xserver'. Steve.

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Re: Xnest
by Steve Fosdick 02 Aug '01

02 Aug '01

Andrew Glover wrote: > Trying to run Xnest with : > > Xnest :1 > > which runs fine, however, trying to run an xterm on it doesnt work: > > xterm -display :1 > > Xlib: connection to ":1.0" refused by server > Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server > xterm Xt error: Can't open display: :1 > > And I cant run xhost, either, so does anyone know how I can > automatically start an xterm on Xnest, or some other solution please? Xnest appears to have some options that are not in the man page. The first possible solution is the '-ac' option which disables access control. The other solution which I haven't tested would be: 1. Generate a magic cookie with xauth and store it in a file. 2. Start Xnest with the -auth option and specify that file. 3. Set XAUTHORITY to the that file (and export it) before starting clients. HTH Steve.

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RE: [Alug] Code Red worm is unreliable because...
by Earl Brannigan 02 Aug '01

02 Aug '01

"David Howe" <david(a)davidhowe.co.uk> wrote : >taken from ?http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1468000/1468329.stm >"What might also hamper the ability of the virus to spread is the relative >unreliability of Microsoft web servers. " ..... "As Microsoft servers crash >more often than many of their counterparts, this might limit the spread of >the malicious code. " >you gotta laugh haven't you? I'm still giggling 1/2 hour later....! >Dave

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RE: [Alug] Code Red worm is unreliable because...
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 02 Aug '01

02 Aug '01

Adam Bower wrote: >maybe I should start the open source Sircam whereby you send me a couple >of your private files and I add them to my home dir, and then I mail some >people random files from my home directory, think of it as an alternative >to freenet with much less software development required ;-) What a great idea! We could send a few to no. 10 DS at regular intervals to add that feeling of authenticity (we don't want to feel second-rate here). Jen

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expect the unexpected
by oms101＠freeuk.com 02 Aug '01

02 Aug '01

expect the unexpected! I do hate it when people say that, because .... But since I am not a total pedant and only have 9/10 for getting side tracked I am posting to ask if anyone knows why my expect script does not work. It apears to log on ok to my remote linux box, but fails to execute anything. I am planning to launch grip, xterm's and the like as I dont have enough monitors, keyboards, space for them or arms as long as my network cabels. Anyway the scripts is like this ---------------CUT here-------------------------------- #!/usr/bin/expect -- # # In this program, we telnet to a host, execute two commands, # and leave. # prevent an untimely end. If you have a command that takes a # time, adjust this set timeout 5000 # We start a telnet session............................. spawn telnet 192.168.0.97 # A telnet session begins with a login prompt, so we 'expect' # one here, and send the username in response. # The \r represents a carriage return. Everytime you would press # <Enter> # interactively, send a \r. expect "login: " send "oms101\r" # We then send the password, note thats not my password expect "assword: " send "mylittlelinuxbox\r" send "xterm &\r" # We know in advance what our command prompt is, and we # 'expect' it accordingly. If we get it, we send the # 'mkdir test' and press enter (\r) expect " >" send "mkdir test\r" exit ---------------CUT here-------------------------------- maybe it is time to learn python! anyway some background here is a screen scrape from the execution of the script ---------------CUT here-------------------------------- >fred_grip spawn telnet 192.168.0.97 Trying 192.168.0.97... Connected to 192.168.0.97. Escape character is '^]'. Welcome to SuSE Linux 7.0 (i386) - Kernel 2.2.16 (2). ford login: oms101 Password: Last login: Wed Mar 28 10:00:24 from charly.local Have a lot of fun... oms101@ford:~ > > ---------------CUT here-------------------------------- and here is what happens when I telnet in and ls the root directory unfortunately no sign of my new test directory, whats going on? ---------------CUT here-------------------------------- oms101@ford:~ > ls mp3 nsmail wav oms101@ford:~ > ---------------CUT here-------------------------------- Chears Owen Date: 30-Jul-01 Time: 19:47:52

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Code Red worm is unreliable because...
by David Howe 01 Aug '01

01 Aug '01

Just reading up on what happened (or didn't) with the Code Red Worm virus on the bbc news site...... taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1468000/1468329.stm "What might also hamper the ability of the virus to spread is the relative unreliability of Microsoft web servers. " ..... "As Microsoft servers crash more often than many of their counterparts, this might limit the spread of the malicious code. " you gotta laugh haven't you? Dave

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Fwd: Re: Ipswich
by David Freeman 01 Aug '01

01 Aug '01

Looks like next wednesday is off, just got this from Josette at O'Reilly. Shame. Thanks D --- orajosette(a)mistral.co.uk wrote: > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > From: orajosette(a)mistral.co.uk > Subject: Re: Ipswich > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:53:29 GMT > > Hi David > Unfortunately Tim had to cancel his trip to Europe due to the sudden > death of > Frank Willison, our Editor-in-Chief and dear friend of Tim. I am sure > that you > understand that Tim needs to stay in Cambridge, MA, to support > Frank's family > and staff. > I will contact you again when we have a new date for Tim. > Josette > ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Xnest
by Andrew Glover 01 Aug '01

01 Aug '01

Hello, Trying to run Xnest with : Xnest :1 which runs fine, however, trying to run an xterm on it doesnt work: xterm -display :1 Xlib: connection to ":1.0" refused by server Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server xterm Xt error: Can't open display: :1 And I cant run xhost, either, so does anyone know how I can automatically start an xterm on Xnest, or some other solution please? Thanks, Andrew

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Re: Tim Talk
by brodders＠cwcom.net 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Hi... Seen nothing about this talk; walked around the Restaurant & can see no notices. Be nice to go so - where? Date & Time? - and how do you get info on talks etc? Nothing put about this at our PP's either. Thx Steve BTexact BT Labs Adastral Park

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IRC Nick names
by David Freeman 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

I would just like to remind members that it is incredibly rude to take the Nick of another Member. I cannot emphasis enough how offensive this and if it is done again action will be taken. Thanks D - Akula, Flamebait, Tux, Carpel. ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Tim talk
by David Freeman 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Is there anyone on the list planning on attending the talk by Tim O'reilly at BT labs next wednesday? thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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password stuff
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Hi all: I'm starting to look at various permission options. 1./ In order to be able to shut down as user other than root, I created a file /etc/shutdown.allow as per man shutdown help file. I then entered the users jenny and root. su back to jenny and try "shutdown -a now" but still get the message "shutdown: command not found". 2./ I want to make my linux backup files more foolproof by backing up onto a spare directory on windows box using smbmount. But if I write a small script to do this, I'm going to have to include my password in the script. The best I can find written about doing this anywhere just says that if you have to include a password in a text file, make sure there are no read permissions for users. But would you say it is dodgy to write stuff with passwords at all? How else would you get round this? Thanks! Jen

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Re: [Alug] password stuff
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

David Freeman wrote: >Depends what else you use the password for. It's my user password, the one that allows me to use samba in the first place. I wondered if it was possible to make a dummy user for no other purpose than making the backup over a samba mount. I just wanted to set up a system that is secure in the interests of good working practice. >If you put it in the file and just make it so it has > >---x------ then you are away. How do you mean? How can I just make it this? >Alternatively, scan.co.uk sell CDRW drives from 65, get one and use >for backup. Hollow laughter at the thought of either having my own money to part with or persuading my boss to do so...... The PATH= blah blah line in bashrc works a treat, thanks. I'll study root's bashrc file and try to understand. Many thanks, Jenny.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Access
by David Freeman 28 Jul '01

28 Jul '01

In a deep and meaninful conversation with a list member whom I work with we were discussing the future of computer operating systems. One of the feature that it was decided on would be required to really boost *NIX OS's was on from NT (and Netware) which is file access lists. Does any one know of a way of implementing a per USER based access lists for files on *NIX. i.e. file foo.bar can be read by fred and alice, bob has write and read access and Eve has no access. As far as I am aware there is know way of doing this easily Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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National Sysadmin day
by David Freeman 27 Jul '01

27 Jul '01

Its national sysadmin day today. the BBC has an article on it with this fantastic quote " I know many of you might have a low opinion of "techies". (Let me just point out here that the image you might have of system administrators staying up all night, surrounded by pizza boxes, old Coke cans, playing Quake is NOT right. That's developers you're thinking of.) " http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1460000/1460166.stm Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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OT: Keyboards and sugar
by David Freeman 27 Jul '01

27 Jul '01

Is there anybody on list who can explain what a KVM switch actually does inside, i.e. its not just a simple switch it does somesort of emulation of keyboards and mice. Also are there any chemists on the list who could draw a diagram of a glucose molacule? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

4 6

Which file
by David Freeman 27 Jul '01

27 Jul '01

When you log into a Box there are two message files used, one called motd is given when you have logged in, what the name of the file which is displayed before you log in i.e. Welcom to My computer all senssions are logged Username: This is on a Sun box running solaris. Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

2 1

Bloody Vikings
by David Freeman 27 Jul '01

27 Jul '01

Has anyone else recieved an email from some Spanish person with a 293KB attachment with a .doc.bat extension? I recieved two copies which put me over my inbox size limit and I missed aload of stuff from email this morning. Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] backup loop
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 26 Jul '01

26 Jul '01

Adam Bower wrote: >and reduced the machine to the overall speed of a windows box. It's funny you should say that; that was one of the first thoughts that crossed my mind when the linux box was, for the first time ever, as responsive as a slug! Jen

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