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[Alug]RPM files
by Richard Lewis 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

Dear ALUG, Three things: 1) Is it possible to extract a single file from an RPM file (as if it were a tar archive, for instance)? 2) To ellaborate on 1): Last time I booted up my Mandake 9.1 box KDE (3.1) loaded without the kicker program (the panel at the bottom). Eventually I found that this was because /usr/lib/kicker.so was missing. I tried creating a symbolic link to /usr/lib/kicker.la but (as I half suspected) it didn't work (.so's and .la's clearly aren't that same thing!). So I found the kdebase.*.rpm on my discs and found that this rpm includes the kicker.so file but I can't find a way to get at that file without installing the entire package (which both I and Linux are reluctant to do!). Hence question 1). 3) I've had similar problems before and I believe I know the cause - but not the solution! Every 23rd boot my Mandrake box checks the root filesystem for errors and always finds and repairs them. On odd occasions after it's done this I get these sorts of problems - in fact its always been missing libraries. So, if anyone has any answers to any of these questions I'd be very grateful to hear them! Thanks very much, Richard. Linux forever, Windows never!

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[Alug]HTML editor for Linux
by Ben Francis 31 Jul '03

31 Jul '03

Hi LUGers I'm trying to find an HTML editor that can give me the same productivity I got in Macromedia Dreamweaver MX but in Linux. I've tried getting Dreamweaver to run under Wine which is supposed to be possible but I'm not keen on the idea anyway - I'd rather run something that was actually written for Linux and *ideally* under the GPL. So far I've looked around and I've tried BlueFish and Quanta Plus, the latter being the most impressive. However, I still don't find it anywhere near as productive to work with as the joint WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) and source code interface that Dreamweaver has. I need something that can: - have a split screen between WYSIWYG (not just a preview) and the actual source code (Dreamweaver style) - FTP capability and management of multiple sites - some kind of recognition of embedded PHP scripts and similar - preferably free software under the GPL - WYSIWYG should generate clean, nicely indented code that is W3C compliant - dreamweaver isn't too bad in this respect although some of the code it generates is a bit messy. I know the purists out there will just say that vi is the only way to write HTML, but that's not what I want. I know HTML well and am perfectly capable of coding it all by hand, but I've always found that a well written WYSIWYG interface can really help speed up web page creation without generating nasty code and sacrificing quality. Providing I have access to the page source as well, coding embedded scripting languages and tidying up nasty bits is no problem. Surely there's an app out there somewhere that can fulfill my needs... any suggestions? Many Thanks -- Ben "tola" Francis

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[Alug]Kylix 3 and other IDE's
by Keith Watson 31 Jul '03

31 Jul '03

Does anyone on this list have a favourite IDE (Integrated Development Environment) they use for developing GNU/Linux apps? I know it has a dependency on what language and graphics libraries you prefer but I'd be interested in hearing people's experiences. Going along the GNU/Gnome route (e.g. GTK+) has anyone used Glade (a GUI/IDE?) and what do you think of it? This has all been prompted by a copy of Kylix 3 I downloaded recently (for those who haven't a clue what I'm talking about Kylix is a port of Borland's Delphi (** see below) to GNU/Linux (and other platforms also I think?)). For the past few years Delphi has been the main software development tool I've used professionally and I was curious to see what the GNU/Linux version was like. I was quite pleased by the completeness of the port, I successfully created the usual Hello World etc. types of applications and they ran quite happily, plus a number of more complex ones. So in terms of a development environment I had no problems. If distributed the applications need a bunch of runtime libraries to be bundled with it. At the present time Borland grants a license to do this but it is proprietary and not GPL (although they do specifically allow the developed code and supporting configuration files to be distributed under the GPL). Personally I'm not keen on this because; the runtime libraries are proprietary and not GPL, they are yet another bunch of libraries to install and they are not part of the usual set of GPL libraries bundled in with the common distros. Where I'm also not so keen is the fact that the underlying tool isn't OS (open source). So I was wondering if anyone has used (or knows of) one or more OS tools that could be used to develop OS applications in a manner similar to the Delphi IDE. I'm specifically thinking of GNU/Gnome here but that's a personal prejudice, I'd like to hear what's around for KDE and command line or ncurses type application development as well. As a caveat I should say that, at this time, I've yet to trawl through Sourceforge or the Gnome websites. Regards, Keith ____________ Since it is no part of the words we unthinkingly use, it leaves no trace in the things we say. Dogen ** Delphi is an IDE that uses an object oriented variant of Pascal as the underlying language. It has an integrated GUI designer/builder where you can create your various window forms graphically by dragging and dropping various widgets on them. Similar to Visual Basic et. al. if you've ever used them.

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[Alug]Hello ALUG!
by Nick Heppleston 31 Jul '03

31 Jul '03

Hello list, I've been sitting in the shadows for sometime (reading the digest mail). Thought it was about time I emerge and become a fully fledged participant. I've been involved in the GNU/Linux/UNIX area for just over two years both commercially and as a hobby, maintaining our EDI links with customers (several Linux based servers - RedHat etc and recently Gentoo, which I can seriously recommend, and our main commercial server running HP-UX) as my day job and working on various websites mini-projects on a semi-commercial basis on an evening. I mainly develop in PHP/MySQL on the command-line and I'm in the process of starting my own business providing consultancy in an around the Diss area ( <shamelessplug>I'm available for hire</shamelessplug> :-) Anyway, one of the main reasons why I decided to make this first posting to the list was to discuss the use of Wi-Fi as a reasonable ADSL alternative. Although Norwich West has ADSL capability, I live further than the minimum 5.5Km from the exchange, so I'm stuck with my BT Openworld 56Kb dial-up connection. We have two local businesses nearby which both have leased line capability but neither of them are prepared to let me hook some Wi-Fi kit up to their connection ;-) So i'm starting to investigate the possibility of a not-for-profit install of a leased line etc, hooking up a beefy machine with a Wi-Fi capability and provide 'broadband' services to the local area. Has anybody done this? is it feasible? what barriers am I likely to face? suggestions etc most welcome! Regards, Nick Ps. Hello Mark! hope all is well :-) -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk

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[Alug]Meeting pages
by MJ Ray 31 Jul '03

31 Jul '03

Please twit-filter the pages for meetings 2003.10 and 2003.9 on http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ and send diffs (preferred command "diff -u meeting9.html.orig meeting9.html" or similar). Syd? John? Shall I run the announcer script on these to email the LUGs and newsgroups? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: Edwin A Abbott wrote about trouble with Windows in 1884

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[Alug]RE: Sweatshirts, T-Shirts & other goodies
by Keith Watson 31 Jul '03

31 Jul '03

> From: Keith Watson on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:03 PM > to ALUG Social List... > > Some time back, well a long time back, when I first joined > this list, in a sudden fit of enthusiasm I suggested we got > some T-shirts and/or Sweatshirts printed up with Tux and the > ALUG acronym over the left breast. I found a company on > Dereham who could do this for us but needed a minimum order > of 10 garments (mixed sizes and colours) and I think the cost > (at that time) was around £15 for a sweatshirt. > > I haven't dropped the idea (yet) just been overwhelmed > by other things :o) and I have also become aware of other > companies in the area who offer this service. > > A number of you expressed interest at the time, so can anyone > who is still interested please reply to this so I can get an > idea of the numbers? > > Please indicate; > > 1) are you interested in a T-shirt (more than one)? > > if so what would be the sort of price range you would > consider (min - max)? > > and what size (male/female)? > > and colours? > > 2) are you interested in a sweatshirt (more than one)? > > if so what would be the sort of price range you would > consider (min - max)? > > and what size (male/female)? > > and colours? > > 2) are you interested in a polo shirt (more than one)? > > if so what would be the sort of price range you would > consider (min - max)? > > and what size (male/female)? > > and colours? > > for comparison purposes take a look at > http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/index.php?PAGE=18 , > http://www.gifts4geeks.co.uk and http://www.cashncarrion.co.uk/ > > (Not sure if I should x-post this to Main as well?) The man from Del-Monte, he say YES!! Regards, Keith ____________ Sometimes the highest form of action is inaction. - Jerry Brown

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[Alug]Scribus DTP
by Keith Watson 31 Jul '03

31 Jul '03

Just read a Slashdot article raving about a GPL DTP program called Scribus. Anyone on the list tried it yet? Latest version is in Debian unstable (4.5Mb) Regards, Keith ____________ Can there be bliss when all that lives must suffer? Shalt thou be saved and hear the whole world cry? HP Blavatsky

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[Alug]East Anglia Update
by Tony Dietrich 30 Jul '03

30 Jul '03

A couple of weeks ago, I promised to look for possible locations for a meet in the East of the area. I'm afraid I have to admit that due to some rather exciting developments in my business, I've not been able to take the time to fully investigate the possibilities. In fact, I may not have the time to do much for several weeks. I'm happy to continue to try and find the time to locate a suitable place and organise a meet. But is anyone else want to take over because of the delay, I'm also happy to stand aside. Things should hopefully get a bit better in 3-4 weeks for me, since I'll have a few extra staff by then to take on more of the remote support. Until then I'm doing about 1000k a week and falling into bed exhausted 7 nights a week ;-( Incidentally, if anyone on here is currently at a loose end, and is a skilled network admin who can handle a mixture of Linux and Windows networks, drop me a line. It seems that I may need someone like that soon. You'd need to be willing to travel a lot :p Maturity, experience and the ability to work independently would count a LOT. As would some experience dealing with dificult customers :p -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transoft.demon.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultants

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[Alug]TV Tuner cards
by Dan Beimborn 29 Jul '03

29 Jul '03

Hi guys, Wondering if anyone could recommend a cheap linux-friendly tv tuner card? DB

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Re: [Alug]USB Network Help
by Wayne Stallwood 28 Jul '03

28 Jul '03

On Monday 28 July 2003 04:56, owen.churchcowley wrote: > Very good example between linux and my chepo but usefull PDA > > http://atulchitnis.net/writings/palm-ppp.txt > I'd actually exercise caution using this script. It's written in a rather amateurish way. Particularly in regards to how it flushes iptables rules without even warning the user.

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[Alug][jtsmoore@revolution-os.com: Re: screening permission for Anglian Linux user group of Revolution OS]
by abower＠thebowery.co.uk 28 Jul '03

28 Jul '03

Hi all, I got this mail a while back so we are going to be screening Revolution OS on the 17th of August at Elmswell. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: abower(a)thebowery.co.uk Subject: Re: screening permission for Anglian Linux user group of Revolution OS Adam, I am happy to give you permission for Anglian LUG to screen the DVD of REVOLUTION OS. When I get a chance, I will add the details of your screening to the revolution-os.com website. I hope the screening is a success. Let me know how it goes. Best Wishes, J.T.S. Moore Director, REVOLUTION OS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 28 Jul '03

28 Jul '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]A warning !! (not Linux related)
by Wayne Stallwood 25 Jul '03

25 Jul '03

Not Linux or ALUG related, but a warning neverless. If you are offered the following equipment please contact myself or Suffolk Police directly. A financial reward will be offered for the recovery of this equipment and/or information resulting of the successful arrest and prosecution of the individual/s involved. The equipment in question is as following HP NX9005 Laptop (with or without Targus Carrying case) Serial numbers as follows (even if scrubbed off these can be found internally/in the packaging/in the documentation and possibly I think in the Bios settings page.) CNF 3251PL3 CNF 3251PLG CNF 3251PKT CNF 3251PP2 This equipment was obtained from myself in what is appearing to be an act of Forgery, Deception and Fraud. This is a matter the CID are now looking into so I am unable to comment too much regarding the details of this. But please if you (or anyone you know) are offered these laptops let me know. Sorry to post such a somber non Linux related message to the list, but I figure as Computer Folk you may come across these laptops being sold off. Regards Wayne

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[Alug]LinITX
by Tarquin Mills 24 Jul '03

24 Jul '03

Does anybody know anything about Stowmarket based Linitx.com? A Linux company that does mini-ITX stuff. -- Tarquin Mills RUNG (RISC OS Users, Norfolk Group)

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Re: [Alug]LinITX
by Dan Beimborn 23 Jul '03

23 Jul '03

I ran a tivo in the states, and I can tell you that it's a wonderful gadget to have. There is a project called mythtv out there now that does all that and more now, well worth checking out: http://www.mythtv.org/ I'd like to put one of these together in a mini ITX and just use it with my LCD screen to watch telly etc on. Another really sexy way to do this is to locate a cheap dvd player that has an IDE DVD drive in it.. easier said than done perhaps.. but you take out the guts of the dvd player, hook up the ITX board inside and leave the IDE DVD drive in place, looks rather nifty. I even know of folks who've re-connected the LEDs to make everything look like a normal player! I also recall that some of these mini or micro ITX boards have a bios that will play a dvd or music cd/mp3 cd-rom right after POST if it's detected, I thought that was a very cool feature too DB

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Re: [Alug]Free CDs
by Martyn Drake 23 Jul '03

23 Jul '03

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:22:02 +0000 Wayne Stallwood wrote: > Ah which reminds me, I have the SuSE 8.2 disks now. Me too :) > If anybody wants a copy of the CD's then I am willing to do it (there > are 5) I'm going to buy the full product at some point, since I was very impressed when I had it installed. However it remained on the system for only several hours as the missus declared that she couldn't print any labels and that the fonts were too small in Mozilla (and she was a bit too impatient to allow me to fix it for her!). Given time she will come round to the power of Linux.. If anybody wants the set once I've finally finished with them, I'd be happy to forward it on. The only thing is that you don't get any official support for them since there's no registration number on disk set. > Currently I don't have the facilities to do copies of the DVD's so if > you want to install it from DVD you are going to have to either borrow > them (I'll keep a note of who has them and we can just pass them > round) or someone in the group with a DVD burner is going to have to > offer their services. I'm happy to copy the DVDs for anybody that wants it. Cost for P&P and the DVDs only (which equates to something along the lines of 99p per DVD and 60p P&P - let's call it 2.60). Regards, Martyn -- Martyn Drake | Email : martyn-d(a)moving-picture.com Systems Administrator | Web : http://www.moving-picture.com The Moving Picture Company | Phone : +44 (0)20 7494 7853 -- Martyn Drake | Email : martyn-d(a)moving-picture.com Systems Administrator | Web : http://www.moving-picture.com The Moving Picture Company | Phone : +44 (0)20 7494 7853

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[Alug]Meeting report - Norwich sunday 20th July
by Syd Hancock 23 Jul '03

23 Jul '03

Ten people attended the sunday afternoon meeting at RBLH in Norwich - MJR, Colin Hards, Ashley Howes, Paul Corner, Adam Bower, Kirsty Naylor, BenE, Syd Hancock, Brett Parker and James Taylor. In usual ALUG fashion the meeting was understated but constructive - Xandros was repaired, library books distributed for reading and review, donated items of equipment and CDs distributed, future meeting venues discussed (Ely is next for a pub crawl, sorry I mean speculative exploratory visit), Mark did something to his laptop which no-one understood (possibly including Mark) and home-made cakes eaten amid discussions, arguements and banter on diverse topics ranging from sourceforge eveloper management or bandwidth costs to bits falling off cars and the usual My Distro Roolz OK :-) Overall a very satisfying afternoon. ------------------------------------- Some advance notices (all will be announced separately later): 1. Next Norwich evening meeting: second thursday of August i.e 14th August at the Forum. (If anyone knows of another free suitable evening venue please let me know). 2. Next Norwich sunday meeting proposed for the last w/e in September - full details later once settled. 3. If anyone has access to room booking at UEA please contact me off-list (don't worry about having to 'organise' anything - we just need someone who can book a room :-) Syd

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Re: [Alug]The letter thingy...
by BenE 22 Jul '03

22 Jul '03

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, BenE wrote: > was in the EDP yesterday. It was edited a bit so it sounded slightly > illiterate :-) > > They got the web address right, and spelt linux correctly, so that was a > bonus... > Bugger, another message that's gotten stuck in the system somewhere for ages. Has anyone encountered something like this before? It only seems to happen when posting to alug. Pine is set up to send mail direct to freeserves smtp server, so my only gueses are it's a problem with pine which coincidently has only affected alug mail, a prob with freeserve or alug's mailserver. Anyone have any ideas please? cheers, BenE --------------------------------- Love is all I bring, in me crass t-shirt 'n' ting

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[Alug]The letter thingy...
by BenE 22 Jul '03

22 Jul '03

was in the EDP yesterday. It was edited a bit so it sounded slightly illiterate :-) They got the web address right, and spelt linux correctly, so that was a bonus...

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[Alug]Free CDs
by Syd Hancock 22 Jul '03

22 Jul '03

I have various CDs that I want to get rid of. No postage required - just an address. Contact off-list please. Suse 8.1 live evaluation Suse 7.3 live evaluation Suse 7.1 live evaluation Knoppix 3.2 (6 June 2003) Morphix 0.3.6 (17 May 2003) games light office heavy office Debian Woody 3.0 binary CD4 Syd

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[Alug]CoLo options
by Paul Tansom 22 Jul '03

22 Jul '03

OK, my server hosting is due for renewal and I'm looking at options for an alternative. Currently I'm on a virtual server setup, but this is too limiting for some things I want to do, so does anyone have any recommendations? Obviously I need a good price and solid support where needed, but beyond that I have some flexibility: 1. Just rack space and bandwidth costs - I can look at building my own box - quite happy to do this. 2. Server with bandwidth costs - and I'll install my own software. 3. Server preinstalled with bandwidth costs. Obviously these involve way different costs, or can do. My main stipulation is that it will be running Linux (no ifs no buts, I need flexibility and reliability and Windows just can't provide this - not to mention being cr*p for remote administration). My other stipulation is that it has to be Debian (I'll discuss this, but this is for business usage which means it has to be easy to administer with security updates and software installs - sorry to other distro users, but Debian is the only choice here - yes, I know Gentoo could possibly be another choice, but I have no experience with that yet. I've tried RPM based distros, but I can't face going back to 'dependency hell' again.) Sorry to all non-Debian users out there, but after a brief period of bliss when I first started with Linux on an RPM distro, I spent too many hours chasing dependencies to be bothered going back and seeing how things have improved. That said, I don't care what distro anyone else uses, and I'm not going to enforce my views on you - apart from the odd light hearted dig ;-) -- Paul Tansom: - contact paul(a)aptanet.com for more information Internet and Intranet Solutions -- http://www.aptanet.com/

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[Alug]Morphix 0.4
by Syd Hancock 22 Jul '03

22 Jul '03

Donated by Paul Corner. Four versions available: games, light gui, heavy gui, kde gui. Contact off-list if you'd like copies. Syd

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 21 Jul '03

21 Jul '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]out of the frying pan into the fire?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 21 Jul '03

21 Jul '03

Hi, Here at work we are finally getting rid of lotus notes server/client for our mail. Hoorah! Hoorah! We are replacing it with, cough, MS Exchange and a front end of our choice. My brother wants to use a linux box with Opera for his mail, and I would do likewise or use exim-mutt type things. Does anyone have any experience with linux and ms exchange? Is it pop3 or imap? Does it keep its mail in weird format that Opera won't be able to read? etc etc. This is a great opportunity to start running linux as a work desktop, as Notes and the odd word doc are all I need ms windows for now, and I don't intend to miss it! jen

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[Alug]Success with ACPI
by Louise Jayne Marie Worthington 20 Jul '03

20 Jul '03

Thanks for the suggestions. I have compiled ACPI in to my kernel and my laptop is dramatically cooler :) I shall also be trying autospeedstep next to improve further. Cheers everyone!

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[Alug]Norwich meeting today - reminder
by Syd Hancock 20 Jul '03

20 Jul '03

Last minute reminder: meeting this afternoon in Norwich at the British Legion Hall on Aylsham road, from 2pm. Full details on the website. If bringing any kit, bring an extension lead as there is only one double socket in the whole room. Syd

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[Alug]Hello, Mobile Athlons and cpufreq
by Louise J M Worthington 18 Jul '03

18 Jul '03

Hello I've been reading for a while but this is my first post. I try to use Debian exclusively and have been experimenting with Linux for about 3 years. I have an Acer Aspire 1301XV laptop with a mobile Athlon XP 1500+. I have tried using Debian, but the CPU gets worryingly hot and the fan is constantly on. I have been looking at the cpufreq project but I can't find much documentation or any updates on its progress. Does anyone know anything about the progress of this project or has anyone any experience with these configurations? A while ago I read about manually changing the clock speed but I haven't been able to find anything since. Thanks, Louise

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RE: [Alug] Evening Meetings
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '03

17 Jul '03

Syd wrote: >How about an informal evening meeting in Norwich on Monday's from about 8pm Syd - I live too far away, but enjoy. Should we change the IRC meeting evening, though? Jen

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[Alug]DVD Compilations
by Martyn Drake 16 Jul '03

16 Jul '03

Hi, I'm intending to put together a DVD compilation of the following distributions in ISO format for people that want to play with various distros but without having to download or buy individual ISOs themselves. Would anybody be interested in this at all? Might be useful for those going to meetings and have a DVD/CD-RW combo drive in their machine :) I'm intending to include the latest ISO releases of: - Debian Stable (i.e. Woody) - Mandrake 9.1 - Red Hat 9.0 - Knoppix - Slackware Regards, Martyn -- http://www.drake.org.uk http://www.drake-hosting.info

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Re: [Alug]out of the frying pan into the fire?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Jul '03

16 Jul '03

Chris Glover wrote: >We have MS Exchange at work, anmd I have successsfullly been able to >conect to it using Pine as an IMAP client. Our exchange servers also >support LDAP, so you can connect to that to get at things like the company >address list. This is more encouraging news. It does all sound like a case of "out of the frying pan into the frying pan next to it" though :-( Jen

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Re: [Alug]out of the frying pan into the fire?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Jul '03

16 Jul '03

Douglas Willis wrote: >Why the move to Exchange? Nothing to do with me! I've no idea. /me crawls under desk and puts brown paper bag over head. >As far as I am aware Exchange supports imap and pop3 as mail >interfaces. This should support any Linux mail client. This is better news, but conflicts with what Laurie wrote: >Exchange is fully proprietary, and doesn't run IMAP. You're restricted to >Outlook as a client. Ah, Adam says: >If you only want >mail access then make sure the people who set it up leave pop and imap turned >on (you will have to check out the imap status yourself) >I think you should point out to your management that going the exchange route >is not a great idea. This seems obvious from all your mails (thanks, all). Unfortunately I don't have a lot of say in the matter - I did argue at length for getting a linux server to run as our mail server, set up and maintained where necessary, by linux professionals. To no avail. The bloke who has talked the company into getting ms exchange sadly is the guy who walked backwards making his fingers into the sign off a cross saying "I don't know anything about Unix, thank God" when i was trying to explain I needed an ssh port left open in our firewall a few months ago. http://www.winecentric.com/notes5.shtml Hey! Pity I didn't read up this a few months ago. Not worth the effort now we're getting good old ms exchange. Thanks all, Jen

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Re: [Alug]USB Network Help, Please
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Jul '03

16 Jul '03

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 11:04:04PM +0100, Dan Hatton wrote: > I tried this query on linux-usb-users, with no luck... can my local > linux community help, please? > > I've been following the instructions at > <http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x555.html> to set up a two-machine > USB network with a Linux box at one end. > > The command > > ifconfig plusb0 192.168.0.1 pointopoint 192.168.0.2 > > fails with the error message > > SIOCSIFADDR: No such device > plusb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device > SIOCSIFDSTADDR: No such device > plusb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device > > Afterwards, > > ping 192.168.0.2 > > gets no response (i.e. 100% packet loss.) Any ideas how to fix this, > please? > > plusb is loaded as a kernel module. The kernel version is 2.2.20. Have you compiled USB-USB Networking cable device support into your kernel? This gives you a module called usbnet, which I think you need, if you haven't got it already. Jenny.

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[Alug]Anyone want Morphix/Knoppix on sunday?
by Syd Hancock 15 Jul '03

15 Jul '03

At the recent evening meet Keith brought recent Morphix and Knoppix CDs to take to the meeting on sunday 20th in Norwich at the RBLH. Morphix 3.6 (17 May 2003) in three versions - games, light office, heavy office - i.e. three separate CDs Knoppix 3.2 (6 June 2003) If anyone would like more copies of any or all of these brought to the meeting then please email me off list. No copying charge, just replace the blanks or give me cost price (about 30p a CD AFAIR) Syd

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #9 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 15 Jul '03

15 Jul '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Fwd: [arch-users] GNU, doc foo, short-term plans, hacking suggestions, money (MJ Ray) 2. LOCAL: ALUG, Norwich, Sunday 20 June (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:52:02 +0100 (BST) From: mjr(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk (MJ Ray) Subject: [Alug Announce]Fwd: [arch-users] GNU, doc foo, short-term plans, hacking suggestions, money Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Lord <lord(a)emf.net> Subject: [arch-users] GNU, doc foo, short-term plans, hacking suggestions, money arch has officially been dubbed "GNU arch". That means, among other things, that it will gain a proper web page at gnu.org (which I'll have to maintain), will be distributed from ftp.gnu.org, and can count on a tiny bit of friendly inter-project mediation with other GNU projects by the FSF. This is a good thing, IMO, but it does mean I have some work to do getting the gnu.org infrastructure for arch up to snuff. There's an option here to set up some gnu-mediated mailing lists (and a requirement to direct bug-arch somewhere, as well). In other news, James Blackwell has offered, and I've accepted the offer, that he will take over maintenance of the tutorial. It will take a few days to fully transfer control over those sources to him. Thank you James! Contributions to the tutorial have been increasingly noticeably. As an _experiment_, I'm thinking of taking a (mostly, not entirely) hands-off approach to its future evolution. Debian aside, when there start to be several, substantial, independent contributors to documentation, as opposed to just one central copyright owner -- there the oft rehearsed "problems" with the GFDL can actually turn from "problems" to problems. (At least that's _my_ twisted view of the matter.) Therefore, as part of the process of transferring the docs to jblack, while I'm still the sole copyright holder, I'll be changing the license to something less problematic -- less controversial. (Asuffield, heads up: Undoubtedly as a side effect, the docs will become Debian friendly. Y'all are still wrong, though. :-) My short term plans: *) Crunch through the patch queue. *) Establish branches for the "big three" new features I'm ideally supposed to be working on. (I'll be using these branches as a vehical to experiment by-hand with what auto-patch-factoring features might do). *) Set-up infrastructure for GNU arch releases. *) Make the next round of releases. *) Hopefully, then, return to work on the "big three" new features (=tagging-method generalizations, inode-signature optimization, partial commits). My sense of priorities has shifted slightly, lately. Roughly, in terms of (extra-economic) demand: =tagging-method / partial commits / inode-signature. Hacking suggestions: Relative to history, anyway, patches are pouring in for things like: simple bug fixes, CLI improvements, help message improvements. These are all great, thanks, and more are welcome. A big open area, easy to do, hence not among my priorities: expand the set of callouts-to-hooks and start to build a library of ready-made hook implementations. I've given some suggestions (e.g., magic-mirrors, magic-revlibs). Maybe these suggestions aren't interesting enough to be "itchy" to people -- but some of the arch-users discussion traffic suggests otherwise. Money: There's a couple of promising developments _on_the_horizon_. Nothing that will make me rich or anything -- but enough to keep me eating and pay utilities, mostly, with some regularity. But it's _on_the_horizon_ -- not real yet. And while I'm good for the next 5 business days --- that's about it. So, as usual, "when the hat comes round! :-)" (and, more interestingly, if you are at a business -- have you considered the commercial offers mentioned at (http:) arch.quackerhead.com/~lord and regexps.srparish.net/www?) Regards. Thanks, all, for all the recent patches. Doing my best to catch up. Yadda Yadda Yadda.... -t https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=lord%40emf.net&item_name=support+for… and lord(a)emf.net for www.moneybookers.com payments. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk, peterboro(a)mailman.lug.org.uk, clug(a)cambridge-lug.org Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:36:38 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: ALUG, Norwich, Sunday 20 June [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.8 : Norwich: The Royal British Legion Hall, Aylsham Road, Norwich 20th July 2003 Plan for the meeting Roughly, as follows: We will meet up from 2pm onwards for anyone interested in GNU/Linux. The room is immediately to your left as you enter the bar and is known as 'the TV room'. If you are bringing any equipment that requires mains power bring an extension lead as there seem to be very few electrical sockets. How to get there For directions, please see [3]the venue information page. People at the meeting If you will also be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Be sure to bring all appropriate power cables etc. An extra extension lead will also be a good idea. So far, for this meeting, we know of: Syd Norwich area co-ordinator. Morphix CDs. Name badges and signs. MJR A small fluffy penguin to sit on the table, so that you can find us. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [4]use the mailing list. [5]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [6]Join ALUG 2. [7]FAQ 3. [8]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [9]Peterborough 2. [10]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [11]PHP4Hosting 2. [12]Black Cat Networks 3. [13]Martyn Drake 4. [14]Turo Technology LLP You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [15]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/nrbl.html 4. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 5. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/ 6. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 9. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 10. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 11. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 12. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 13. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 14. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 15. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Reason for joining
by Tim Sanders 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

We are in the process of replacing DOS with Suse Linux and FreeBSD for some of our in-house applications (using the compiler Flagship). We have been using a consultant to do a lot of the operating system configuration, which has been successful so far. It would be better to improve our own skills too, and we hope this user group will help us do that.

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[Alug]Elmswell, 17th August.
by Robert Tillyard 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

I can get Elmswell for 17th August. I'll get the projector set-up to show the DVD. I think we can seat about thirty people in front of the screen. Regards, Rob.

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[Alug](no subject)
by Colin Hards 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

>>No one has commented on the spec of these machines . . . >pentium and above is acceptable, if you are doing gui >things then pentium 133 . . . Good. I hadn't intended to go below Pentium level. If I take on holding a small stock of kit then it will have to be organised - a published list of the items held, date, model etc., otherwise this could get out of hand quickly. My plan was to get a small stock, then from time to time ask if anyone has newer kit, and progressively update as time went on. The old kit would either have to be dumped at my local tip, or given for free to some local group or charity. The whole operation would have to be cash free. Does that sound reasonable? The 'Computers for Africa' scheme has received a bit of criticism (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2989567.stm) and I think what they'd prefer is masses of similar machine when a large company upgrades. Nevertheless, I'll check it out when the time comes. Colin _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband

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[Alug]Linux & education
by Colin Hards 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

First I would like to know if anyone reading this list has any affinity for the ideas I'm proposing. If no one here wants organised talks / lectures, which implies a slightly more formalised structure to ALUG meetings, then so be it. Unless there are others who would attend these and would enjoy them then clearly there is no little point anyone bothering further. OK, so here's a list of items I'd like some 'talks' on. And before anyone answers any of these with a simple "oh that's easy to answer, all you have to do is . . " please remember that this is not the same as a talk on a subject, where those listening can break in from time to time to get a point explained again or in a different way. Where at the end you can ask to go over an issue again, or perhaps have a further chat with the speaker. Mail lists like these are great but only can cover certain types of queries well. A beginners Linux course / talks perhaps some of the following could be covered. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) At any one time, in the Windows world there is really only one OS and one desktop. In the Linux world there are many dozens. A breakdown of what's available, which is better for certain tasks, what differences there are between them and covering which issues are significant to beginners. 2) How does Linux differ from Windows. Is this important? (Only a very little politics, I mean in broad operational tasks) 3) Do all Linux flavours use the same disk operating system? How does this compare to FAT & NTFS etc. 4) Linux flavours - is it best to stick to one, better to run more than one for different tasks etc. 5) Given we do not want to become system administrators, and are home users, discuss "what" we need to learn to (1) get started, (2) progress to a moderate level of expertise. i.e. at what point is a knowledge of command line commands absolutely necessary - if it is. 6) A beginner's lecture on what Linux is, how it differs from Unix, if the difference between Linux variants is important or not. Can you load a Unix program on a Linux system if the need arose? 7) A run down of the Linux directory structure - where programs are, where your data should go. What goes in the other areas. What we can mess with. What we shouldn't. 8) How to manage the system / how to handle backups. Is there a built in backup program, if not discuss 3rd party options. 9) How to install programs. How to delete a program. How to upgrade a program. What's and when to use a binary/source/rmp/deb install? 10) How to flatten a hard disk, if I want to try out a different version of Linux. 11) After installing a new or second hard disk - how to fdisk / format (windows terms I'm afraid) once it's installed. Learn which files can be moved to the new disk, which can't, or doesn't it matter? 12) An in depth of how 3rd party programs are installed. How to do it, how to set them up, etc. E.g. some seem allied to Red Hat - if they are, can they still be loaded and run in another's Linux version etc. 13) Show us the different desktops - KDE, Gnome & others etc., with a discussion about their differences. Discuss whether its useful to have different desktops installed for different functions. 14) Discuss simple console line commands. Do we really need these? What can they do that an equivalent software pop up window can't? 15) Explain what X windows is. (I think this is what it was called.) 16) How to open multiple windows, that reopen where they were opened before. Is this a problem with my version of Linux, or a KDE issue, or what? Last OS I used that worked properly was OS/2. 17) How to set up an old PC as a firewall / email handling box on a simple home network. 18) How to install fonts. Xandros seems poor here - maybe that's only Xandros. Software demonstrations : ------------------------- 1) Open Office - well why not? By someone who knows the similarities / differences, and can demo a few interesting advanced features. 2) A look at other options for word processor. Vi is often mentioned but is said to be complex. Is this so? 3) Apache - yes I'd like to have and run a server at home to simulate an ISP, with ancillary software integrated. A simple look at all this would be interesting. 4) Demo of Windows applications running on Linux boxes. So terrible? 5) MySQL - A number of web sites seems to use it, a basic starter would be good. Is it a good GP database for storing home user info on? 6) PHP - often allied with MySQL. Another basic starter, and good to demo what it can and can't do. Does this sound like a full time college course? Possibly, but covering just a few topics would be a start. I've hastily made this list not with the intention of asking ALUG to cover them all - obviously impossible, but there must be ALUG members reading this who know a piece of Linux software well and who would be happy to share their knowledge for a short period to beginners, and perhaps others in the group would be interested as well. ~~~~~~~ Adam >Why can you not arrange a series of lectures? If >you take care of the organising bits that only leaves >you to find some people willing to talk. Er, with that suggestion, what else is there left to do? No, if this has to happen it surely has to happen as a group exercise led preferably by the current ALUG organisers, or if not by a number of interested people - or not at all. In any case it would be difficult to start something like this against the background of disapproval that seems to be present. I'm willing to do my bit, but to simply off-load the creation of a series of talks onto a beginner, and ask me to find and organise all the speakers is not really on is it? One of the points of the Alug group is surely that over the years advanced Linux users will get know one another, and a little of what they do. Those currently running the group are correct to cajole the rest of us for being inactive. As I said I'm willing to help. But other than my home town I cannot reasonably be expected to publicise any talks further afield. Once an event is confirmed, I'm happy to create a web page to publicise it - for the organisers to add to the ALUG site. >>That's what I'm doing - asking for them. >The way you asked was to say that the meetings >were not worthwhile and say that Alug was not >doing enough. What I said was "I've been to four of five ALUG meetings and to *me* they're a waste of time." I was not saying they were not worthwhile to others. Over time the number that attend these meeting will show how this is viewed. As to ALUG not doing enough, I am of course trying to produce constructive criticism here. I doubt the group will be damaged by reading my comments. If enough agree, then the group will move in a certain direction. If they don't, well things can continue as now. >That is not a very good way to get on the right side >of people, a much more tactful way of doing it would >be to say something along the lines of . . . Please let's not reduce this to a review of words used. I intended to open this topic up to see if other felt the same. If I don't state what I think, the debate is pointless. >If you try and start the program you could arrange all >of the above, the only thing you need is some willing >volunteers (or victims) ;) to do the training. Joking or not, I'm saddened if anyone contributing their knowledge and skills to others who wish to learn should see it in this light. I certainly do not want to impose an unpleasant task on anyone. It's peoples free time after all, and it really has to start with their volunteering. >Again I think this is a chicken and egg scenario, >people don't want to be bothered sorting this kind >of thing out without people asking. You could try >and find 9 more people willing to pay for a days >introduction and then ask here for people willing to >do it. I think this is the wrong way round. This may be valid in a company setting - where you want to train a group - so you approach someone to do it and set it up in house. My intention here was to see if anyone in the group just happened to be a trainer, who from time to time conducted courses in this region, and who would be interested in helping the group. Once you have a face in the slot, and a willingness to tackle a subject, then you can try publicising it to see if there's interest. That's the chicken and egg from my perspective. Also once you get into this realm of paying for something then it needs even more pre-planning and needs good advance notice etc. Hence college courses I suppose. Unfortunately a commercial training project also suffers from the problem that it's less easy to persuaded shops & businesses to publicise your talks with leaflets if they feel that they're being used to surreptitiously advertise a commercial project for free. I'm sorry you seem to be rather against this idea and do not find any value in it. Unless a number of others come forward to express a positive endorsement to these ideas, it shows I'm clearly out of step with the group. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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[Alug]17th August Syleham meeting cancelled, we need a new venue!
by Adam Bower 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

Hi all, Can we have a volunteer for hosting the August meeting a little noise was made about this but nothing seems to have come from it. One other thing is that we have two meetings pages currently, both containing slightly different information. I say we either drop one, or turn one into "previous meetings" and the other into "current/future meetings" (contrib area) does anyone want to make these changes? Or will I be doing it this weekend? Adam PS depending on if i get holiday, I should make the next Norwich evening meeting :) -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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[Alug]ALUG and computers
by Colin Hards 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

>>The best solution would be for the next speaker to collect >>the machines after an earlier group meeting, but if this is not possible >>then I'd be happy to deliver them (let's say Norfolk) at a convenient >>time to the home of speaker. I could also store a few machines in >>between whiles if this was necessary. ... >I think you've put your finger on the important thing which >is having someone who's able to store the stuff and >co-ordinate its use. This could turn out to be a bit >time consuming for you, is that going to cause >you any problems in the longer term? I had in mind to offer to do this for the Norwich area. I think others should cover areas centred on their meeting place. Probably not a good idea to transport computers very long distances - old machines will probably fall apart if subjected to huge mileage in my car. So perhaps each area could have a small 'stock' of machines for local use. Also there's a limit as to how many can be got in one car for any trip, so this limits the number of machines. Smaller computers would help. I can store quite a few in the dry in my loft (which has easy access and is boarded) without to much strain. As to the time involved, I would estimate that a special trip might be needed once or twice a month at most, and also in taking kit to meetings. Sometimes these could be combined with work journeys. >Just a thought, how would having this kit in you home >(I'm presuming that that's where you'd be keeping it >meantime's) affect your household insurance cover? I'm assuming that if a machine is donated to ALUG for group use then essentially it has no value, either because it is not required by the owner / business any longer, or it's been replaced. I don't think anyone would want ALUG to start buying computers. Last time I enquired about computer values I was told by quite a number of people that it is generally considered that this gear devalues by a third annually. While not mathematically accurate anything over five years old has very little value and can be considered valueless.

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[Alug]Re: wireless
by Dan Beimborn 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

The best practices I've read lately involve getting rid of Mac address lockdown (which is spoofable) and instead relying on PPPOE, using RSA SecurID fobs, or using a free pppoe client + strong password encryption. Requiring individual user identification rather than knowledge of the key (which is crackable with widely known software) or mac addres (which is easy to spoof if you do a little sniffing in promiscuous mode) should get you further. I read a white paper on this somewhere with regards to setting up a wireless freenet in a rural part of America, where the chief concern was theft of service that would limit the ability of the operators to control bandwidth utilization. DB We are moving into larger offices later this month. The buildings we are moving out and and into are both regional development buildings so house multiple companies, hence we hide the AP, limit MACs, require a strong key which will change every month or so and have it on a NIC that's firewalled. Not much else we can think of on a practical level... Unless you guys can.

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Norwich social meet last night
by Syd Hancock 13 Jul '03

13 Jul '03

I was very pleased to see a few people turn up as I wasn't sure at one time if there would be anyone else except myself and Mark :-) Paul, Keith, Tristan, Brett, Mark and myself gathered - we had two penguins on the table this time :-) Keith has printed some name badges and a laminated sign for meetings as well as donating various Morphix CDs which I will bring to the sunday meeting on the 20th July. Paul also gave away some installer CDs. It was another enjoyable social evening and it is good to be putting faces to names. For your diary - next evening social is the second thursday of August - August 14th, 8pm, at the Forum coffee bar again. Seems overall the best venue for these casual meets at present. Syd

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[Alug]Anyone for a meet venue?
by Tony Dietrich 13 Jul '03

13 Jul '03

One of the minor frustrations for me as far as this group goes is the fact that most of the meets are north and west. Doing an hour's drive each way after work isn't something that appeals to me, especially if I've already been to a customer down in the Home Counties or up North that day :p So, following the adage 'if its worth doing, do it yourself' (:p) ... how many people would be interested in a meet in Ipswich/Felixstowe or the surrounding area? I live in Felixstowe, and have several local venues in mind (none of which I have investigated fully yet), but I'd be perfectly happy to look a bit further afield. But first I'd like a show of hands from people that would be interested in a meet in this area. Anyone? -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transcc.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultancy Ltd. -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transoft.demon.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultants

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[Alug]Spare monitors for ALUG
by Colin Hards 13 Jul '03

13 Jul '03

>Tony Dietrich <td(a)transoft.demon.co.uk> wrote >I *may* have a few old 15" monitors available >in a few weeks. I'll mail the list if they >come up, but someone needs to be prepared to >pop down to Felixstowe *quick* and collect them, >I have absolutely NO storage space here... Having volunteered, I'll be happy to do this, if it happens. Realistically, I think I could cope with a maximum of 3 computers systems by car to a local meeting. Three monitors on the back seat, computers in the boot, K/bs in a box. I have one computer, but no monitors, so I could collect three monitors if they are going spare. No one has commented on the spec of these machines. I read Linux is happy to operate on old computers but is this really so? Given the tasks Ive suggested, what is the minimum spec that is worthwhile for this idea? _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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[Alug]Alug computers
by Colin Hards 12 Jul '03

12 Jul '03

Keith, >We have some old monitors here a work >I think I can get one or two of if >they'd be of use. If this idea goes ahead then some monitors would be handy. My obsolete loft computer is without a monitor as this item is my working spare - but it's going dark, so not good for long periods. Colin _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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[Alug]Ah well, it's happened at last!!
by Keith Watson 12 Jul '03

12 Jul '03

Don't say that Mr. Gates doesn't know a good thing when he sees it! <http://www.mslinux.org/> Regards, Keith ____________ CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

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[Alug]Alug computers
by Colin Hards 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

Many thanks to those who've emailed me privately to express broad agreement to the ideas I've raised. Ill get around to replying to list comments when I get a chance. I'd like to make a further suggestion. One reason speakers may be less willing to step forward to talk at group meetings is the difficulty of providing computers for use in their demonstrations. Perhaps ALUG should provide them? If we provide speakers with one or two computers a few weeks before the meeting, then they can load them with their OS and relevant software for their discussion or demo well in advance. The advantage of this is that their own equipment does not need to be disassembled and transported, and at the meetings group members can experiment with the computers and test software after the talk, without fear of compromising private files or important work. Therefore the speakers equipment will not be risked. The best solution would be for the next speaker to collect the machines after an earlier group meeting, but if this is not possible then I'd be happy to deliver them (let's say Norfolk) at a convenient time to the home of speaker. I could also store a few machines in between whiles if this was necessary. I have one old machine in my loft and will be retiring another in a month or two, and would be happy to donate them. Perhaps over time group members upgrading could donate their old systems to the group rather than bin them, and this way the group can gradually update the stock. Maybe some businesses could also be persuaded help with old gear. Even if a meeting had no speaker a number of group machine could be set up so we can all try out different software. Taking the idea further still, once a reasonable number of computers were obtained by the group then demonstrations or open days become possible - even to schools! Colin _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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[Alug]Late reminder - Norwich meeting tonight
by Syd Hancock 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

For anyone just in from work and who has missed the earlier announcements - Norwich social meet this evening, thursday 10th July, 8pm in the coffee bar of the Forum (big new place by the market) Syd

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[Alug]Distro Survey
by Keith Watson 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

Just out of curiosity I'd like to know what distro's the list members use and the numbers of each. If you have no objections can you email me at <mailto:kpwatson@ukfsn.org> telling me; 1) how many distros you have installed and bootable 2) across how many machines 3) what one is your favourite 4) what one do you tend to use most regularly 5) do you have a Linux only setup or do you have a flavour of Windows installed also. I'll collate the numbers and feed it back to the list as an anonymous set of statistics (or damm lies if you prefer :o) ). Regards, Keith ____________ CONSULT, v.i. To seek another's disapproval of a course already decided on. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

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[Alug]Linux friendly printers
by jamie.french＠talk21.com 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

Hi Guys, Can anyone recommend a Linux friendly cheap colour inkjet printer? It also key to work with Windows. Take Care, Jamie Best Regards, Jamie French -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

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[Alug]Linux & education
by Colin Hards 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

Dan >While I sympathize with the replies of other group >members to the effect that we're a Linux users' >group, not a Linux trainers' group or a Linux >evangelists' group, and that Colin's post doesn't >give enough detail for us to help much, these >statistics scare me. Something's wrong here. Not necessarily. If the group reading this is satisfied with the direction ALUG is going in then I'm 'odd out' and will have to seek other solutions. The group may consist largely of trained computer professionals for whom this idea is irrelevant, and other users may be happy to potter along in their own time. I could be the only one using this list who wants this. There are other solutions - some costing, some long distance (for me). I'm merely asking if the local one is a possibility. But there's no suggestion of the group having to change if it doesn't want to. >Colin, perhaps you could tell us what your job is, >and maybe give us some examples of tasks you've >been unable to transfer to Linux, or have been >able to transfer, but only at low productivity. I >think it probable that we'll be able to come up >with some tips to change this. My job is not really relevant to this, but anyway I'm a video editor in broadcast television - working freelance mostly at Anglia TV, (and I'm doing a late shift on Thursday to midnight). Prior to that I was a cameraman. Anyone viewing broadcast television over the last 20 years will know of the consistent decline of the medium, and sadly I can see no end to this in ITV. Budgets are shrinking and so will quality, but the story is repeated in many other industries. We're also told we may have to work into our 70's if our pensions are to be worth anything. So tentatively I'm keeping an open mind for other avenues to move into if the work I do declines even further. As to specifics, MJR was good enough to sort out my computer at a ALUG meeting where apparently Apache was loaded (with the O/S) but wasn't functioning. To be useful to me I'd like to load PHP as well, but reading about this (from "PHP & MySQL web development" book) seems to indicate two types of integration, and anyway when I tried it following notes in there it didn't work. Under Windows loading a program is pretty much cut and dried. All have installers, and basically get on with it. I'm pretty sure that my failure here is almost certainly down to my lack of knowledge about the basics of what I'm doing. Putting this problem on the list would be difficult as (now) I can't remember exactly what I did or at what point the load failed. Perhaps I'll have another stab at it this wekend. But I doubt the group would want me to thrash around with this sort of problem on the list? What happens when the next piece of software I try out, also doesn't install / run? Wouldn't it be far better for all concerned if I could acquire the basics of what's going on, rather than trying to post possibly stupid beginner problems on the list? As to low productivity, this may be psychological as much as real. I get the impression that everything happens faster on my Win2000 system (Athlon 1.2GH, 392MB) box than the Xandros (Athlon 2.1GHz, 256MB) box - Win2000 loads in 70% of the time of Xandros despite the slower older system. Even the Win2000 control via a LAN of Xandros windows is better than the KDE control. But the real issue is that when any problem occurs on the Linux system, work stops as solutions are difficult to find. Some of the help files which I have accessed are pretty poor. This is I'm sure just a matter of acclimatisation, and it would be helpful to speed this up. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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Re: [Alug]Linux & education
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

MJRay wrote >.......the IRC channel (irc.alug.org.uk #alug) seems to have >people in it most of the time now, although sometimes not very talkative. You may find you have to first silence the more loquacious members who like to go on at length about their motorbikes and hens. Jen (Bored waiting for a 1.2gig file to unzip and untar itself)

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[Alug]Awareness
by Keith Watson 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

Like MJR, inspired by Colin's post, I have been thinking (not a pretty sight). One of the main issues with OSS is the general lack of awareness about it. To most people Windows is so ubiquitous that it is synonymous with the idea of a PC. So the question is how can we raise awareness of OSS software? Whatever it is has to be low cost (i.e. free or nearly free) but has to reach a fairly wide audience. I though the installfests a good idea in principal but I could never see how they could be implemented in a effective way. However 2 things have worked their way into my consciousness recently that may offer a solution. Knoppix and The Forum. I think Knoppix is a great way of showing non-technically minded people that a) there is another life after MS and b) that you don't have to know f*** all about operating systems to run GNU/Linux (in fact you don't even have to know that its called that!). I now always carry a Knoppix CD around with me and whenever someone asks me about this Linux thing I'm talking about I just find the nearest available PC (i.e. the owner doesn't mind my booting a CD off it) and run it up. Usually the response I get is initially "Is that it? So how is it deferent from the PC I normally use?" and then most people quite happily play around with the word-processor, spreadsheet, etc. with no problems (the next question is always "so where's the games?") Then after a while they ask "How much is this?" and that give me the chance to do the whole OSS spiel. Great thing about Knoppix is that 99 times in 100 it just boots and runs. No hardware issues or technical install problems. It just works. Just behind the coffee shop area in the Forum there is a small exhibition area. Several times now I've noticed local specialist groups using it. I occurs to me that it would be great if we could set up some Knoppix demos here. Perhaps over a weekend. I might be a good way to reach a more general public. There's all sorts of ideas floating (just mistyped that as fouling, Freudian slip?) round my head, so I'll stop there. I'll do some research and see if there's any way to get access to that area (costs, eligibility, etc.). Feedback please. Keith

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[Alug]Linux & education
by Colin Hards 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

Thanks to everyone who replied. >hangon, if you think Alug should be doing >this and doing that why are you >moaning about it and not doing anything? I can't do anything as I see myself as the pupil here. Do you mean I should be organising a venue? Alug seem to have this reasonable sorted, at least I've been to Syleham, Elmswell, King's Lynn, Norwich. Do you mean I should be badgering members to act as lecturers? I don't think I'm able to. I would hope that this request would encourage knowledgeable members (only you know if you have the knowledge and skills to do this) to come forward and perhaps volunteer to help train some beginners. >Their are many people here who are willing to to give talks etc. Great. If this is so please get together with one or other of the main Alug organisers to see if a program of instruction or lectures could be arranged. >but until someone asks for them they are not likely to do them That's what I'm doing - asking for them. I also saw some suggestions before Christmas on this mail list of the possibility of lecture or talks being started early this year. So I've waited to see if any of these came about. You're now debating if you can 'educate' students / school teachers? I'm asking on behalf of home users. >because of a lack of a perceived need and because they are >busy working on other things. Lack of perceived need? If no one else on this list supports me then you may be right. But that conclusion won't get Linux thriving in East Anglia will it? Members here have talked about crusading on behalf of Linux. I'm suggesting one possible avenue to further that. Busy working. Yes, we all are. Of course I'm not demanding anyone gets involved here who hasn't the time and expertise, and the willingness to pass on their knowledge. >The meetings are not really "disorganised" either, they are a >bunch of geeks/hackers/linux users/friends who like to meet up >every couple of months to talk about computers and other crap, in some ways >they are deliberatly disorganised as even >without a formal agenda we always end up locked out of the >venue standing around talking in the cold because we run out of time. Hey, I've got no problem with this. You've every right to do precisely what you want at these meetings. If as a group you outwardly appear too professional, then perhaps you frighten away many possibly interested members of the public. This may deter beginners, not encourage them. >If anyone comes to us with a specific need or >topic they need a talk on then we will try and >arrange something. I could quote you quite a few. But I'd rather ALUG set up a series of tutorials - maybe an hour at the beginning of a meeting - dedicated to a topic to help beginners. Or perhaps at another time if you want to keep the proceeding separate. Or would ten of the knowledgeable users give up a Saturday morning, or a couple of hours one evening, to get a series of lectures going? If you need subject suggestions, I'm happy to list a few. >If you find the meetings a waste of time why do >you come to them? It's fair to give everything a chance, and I have over more than six months. If I hadn't bothered to travel to any, you'd rightly criticise that. I'm merely saying that there seems little reason for me to attend any more of these gatherings unless I have a better idea in advance what can be got out of it. >Many of us also work directly with spreading the >word and the software, indeed all my previous jobs >have seen me spreading Linux and free software where >possible within companies and organisations. It seems to me that getting a Linux box, and a Linux OS with it or loaded onto it is the least of the problems. What is needed is help thereafter, using it to it's full potential. I'll leave the last few sections, as that probably won't help, but thanks Adam for your comments. ~~~~~~~~~ >Well, what can you do to help fix it? It sounds as though you have some >clear ideas about what you'd like to see happen at a meeting, . . . but >maybe it needs more planned activities and more >circulation. How to organise that? Well, perhaps the Alug web site would help here. If the user group organised a series of lectures, then it should be publicised as widely as possible. On the web site. A5 leaflets in computer stores if they're agreeable, leaflets to schools / colleges. Give us a file to download from the web site, we each print out 100 or so at home. Leave some with local computer businesses. We all live near to some of these. I'll walk about and deliver some in Dereham if ALUG has a firm plan and publishes it a few weeks / months in advance. If no one registers to book a place at these lectures, well cancel the whole idea and there's only a little wasted effort or expense, but probably on the plus side the benefit of getting some exercise. But you need a thought out viable program up front to start with. >All of this would welcome help, I think. Fair enough. You say you are fairly well organised administratively, and as I have little Linux experience or group knowledge it's difficult to see where I can help. But I appreciate that if I'm to benefit from your knowledge, then I must contribute. I'm happy to. I'm on the committee of two other 'pastime' societies, so feel I am repaying them for previous and current support. If I can help Alug I'm willing to give it a shot. ~~~~~~~~~~ >My point is that you get away with not learning >about a windows PC not because it works without >having to do so but that you can't anyway mostly. I'd quite happy to find fault with Windows and agree it's infuriating at times. Hence my toe in the water of Linux. I also agree that because we've grown up with Windows, knowledge about using the system has been acquired gradually over the years, just sufficient to do what we want. But a change over to Linux is not the same as an getting the next newer version of Windows. There's a lot of differences, and some training would get the show on the road much much quicker. The availability of this type of support would encourage a lot to think about Linux more seriously. >In further addition to this, if people do want specific >Linux training then there are people around on this >list who will do it for you, of course it will not be free, >and it will probably not be cheap. You're correct that there are quite a few expensive courses out there - I've seen £1675 for a 5 day Linux course. But I don't want to be a system administrator. I want to use a home computer. Companies who offer these courses know the individual isn't paying, his employer is, hence the price. There are also some quite modest ones - one I saw was in the order of £80 for a day's 'introduction to Linux' at Bromley college, and if my request peters out here then I'll probably think about that one. If anyone knows of courses closer to East Anglia not targeting system admins or costing many hundreds per day, then I'd be grateful if you can point me at them. I did a 6 month long one day a week course at Norwich City College a year ago. If they offered the same for Linux, I'd sign up. The course had about 20 others on it, so it's not unreasonable to suppose that a Linux and related subjects course might interest quite a few as well. But what's so terrible about paying for a course? I don't expect something for nothing. If you managed to get 10 beginners together for a day and each contributed a small fee, then you'd have quite a useful recompense even allowing for provision of computers and some travel expenses - or scale this for an evening etc. >It would be quite acceptable for someone to post >on the list and offer to pay or ask for a complete training course. This sounds like a 'one to one', and of course that would be expensive. So would a 'complete' course, and that implies decent training manuals and course notes, and would be time consuming for the trainer to set up and run. I'm thinking about a group, gathered around a computer or three, seeing a demo, taking notes themselves if they want to, maybe between 5 and 15 at a time? ~~~~~~~~~~ >In the past, I remember informal demos being some of >the most useful bits, but they're haphazard and unstructured. >I'm not suggesting anything really demanding, but a bit of >background material put up and some advance warning about >what will be there. Yes, great. I'd go for that as well. Choose a piece of software, and give half an hour about the basics, then take a Q&A on it, or allow a bit of hands on. Sounds good. Again, I'm happy to suggest a few for the list. ~~~~~~~~~ >The best way to get more out of the meetings is to >get involved, post to the List or Wiki with >topics/talks/requests you would like to see at a >meeting and see if there are any members who are >willing to assist. I'll wait for further reaction to this reply first, but if a list of subjects is needed I'll post one. Most of this will be pretty obvious, but I hope I'm past the point where it bothers me too much to admit my ignorance. I hope others in a similar position or sharing this view will also post to this list. If they don't, then I will have to conclude what I'm after really isn't required - as has been suggested. My reason for raising this subject was the huge number of messages on this list about Microsoft overcharging for software. This topic then drifted onto how to educate / get schools into the Linux camp. I'm jumping onto this bandwagon to champion a similar approach for the public. If this is not your remit then I'll say no more. Colin _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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[Alug]Anyone for a meet venue?
by Tony Dietrich 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

One of the minor frustrations for me as far as this group goes is the fact that most of the meets are north and west. Doing an hour's drive each way after work isn't something that appeals to me, especially if I've already been to a customer down in the Home Counties or up North that day :p So, following the adage 'if its worth doing, do it yourself' (:p) ... how many people would be interested in a meet in Ipswich/Felixstowe or the surrounding area? I live in Felixstowe, and have several local venues in mind (none of which I have investigated fully yet), but I'd be perfectly happy to look a bit further afield. But first I'd like a show of hands from people that would be interested in a meet in this area. Anyone? -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transcc.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultancy Ltd.

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Re: [Alug]Linux & education
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

Colin Hards wrote: >First I would like to know if anyone reading this list has any affinity for >the ideas I'm proposing. If no one here wants organised talks / lectures, >which implies a slightly more formalised structure to ALUG meetings, then so >be it. Unless there are others who would attend these and would enjoy them >then clearly there is no little point anyone bothering further. Colin - regarding what I said in a previous post about beginners v. gurus.....everyone in alug has something to learn, and all will benefit from any talks given, perhaps including the talker. We've long rattled on about giving talks and as I also said previously, they haven't happened simply because no-one has got around to organising a meeting structure. I usually find if there *has* been a talk I've missed it, as it was being given by what appeared to be a bunch of people chatting about something else while I was purloining some form of help or other for some box or other in the opposite side of the room. Re. Keith's post about ALUG members having a willing spirit but little time, perhaps rather than roll out a series of talks planned for such and such a meeting, we should take it one at a time? That way they won't fizzle out as soon as one of the talkers realises they can't make a meeting that had been planned months before, kind of thing. As for asking questions on list - I think I take the prize for that, certainly last year's, so fire away, you won't be the worst! Search the archives for proof! (Most people still seem to be on speaking terms with me...) Jenny

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[Alug]Norwich evening social meet this thursday 10th July
by Syd Hancock 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

As a general reminder: the Norwich evening socials are now held on the *second* thursday of the month at 8pm Specific reminder: next evening meeting in Norwich is this thursday, 10th July at 8pm. If you are coming please could you let myself or Mark know either by email or the list? Thanks. (And come anyway even if you don't let anyone know beforehand). I've not been able to book a venue for it so I suggest that we meet in the Forum again (which a lot of people liked anyway). Plus it's free if not many people turn up to share the costs of a hall :-) -------------------------------------------- I've put the subject line as 'social' meet to emphasise that these are really intended to be just that, a bit of chat and socialising, and not intended to replace the weekend meetings held across the region where people bring full kit, have installs etc. Does anyone really want to lug monitors etc around on a thursday evening? I did ask but there has not been much response yet to my queries :-) And kudos to Keith who started the ball rolling... Syd .

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[Alug]Diary anyone?
by Tony Dietrich 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

It occurred to me that one thing this group may benefit from is a web-accessible diary. I could roll one out for us, but my local systems are a little overloaded at present. If someone has some fast mysql and php enabled webspace they would like to donate (that I can access via a shell would be best) then I'd be happy to work on it .. I have a suitable php application on tap. -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transcc.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultancy Ltd.

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[Alug]Next Meeting
by John Seago 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Where and when is this, I ask as I have a library book I wish to return, (without having to drive al the way to Cambridge to give it back to Adam, although I may be going that way soon). -- John Seago

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Re: [Alug]Diary anyone?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Tony Dietrich wrote: >It occurred to me that one thing this group may benefit from is a >web-accessible diary. > >I could roll one out for us, but my local systems are a little >overloaded at present. > >If someone has some fast mysql and php enabled webspace they would like >to donate (that I can access via a shell would be best) then I'd be >happy to work on it .. I have a suitable php application on tap. Excellent idea. I know Adam was hoping to get a box together for ALUG bits and bobs - any progress on this Adam? Jen

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[Alug]Linux friendly printers
by Edenyard 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Jamie asked: > > Can anyone recommend a Linux friendly cheap colour inkjet printer? It also key > For what it's worth, I've been very pleased with the HP DJ930C (around £77 from Staples just over a year ago). Works a treat with Linux for Gimp and just ordinary printing too. I use the Turboprint driver system which seems to give very acceptable results for photographs - with the right paper, of course. Whatever you buy, take a long close look at the running costs - i.e., how much a new cartridge will cost and what you actually get for that. I see a big advantage of the HP system in the print head being renewed every time you change the cartridge. I had an Epson once where changing the caartridge simply renewed the ink supply. When the head failed, it would have cost about twice as much to renew as another printer cost. Also take a close look at how easy it'll be to get the right drivers (especially for quality output) working with Linux. I personally find the Linux Printing How-to the most unhelpful document I've ever seen - it lets the Linux side down completely. Hence the unprecedented step I took of actually paying £12 for a set of drivers that really work! There's bound to be a wide diversity of opinion here, so I'll duck now.... Cheers, Gerald.

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[Alug]Linux & education
by Colin Hards 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

I'm finally compelled to write to this mail group after starting this message numerous times over the months. Sorry to be critical, but I'm somewhat jaded reading about Linux on the desktop and whether it's ready or not, or in schools etc., or how to interest the masses. The question you should be asking is - is Linux ready for the public? I don't think so, and my criticism is that this Lug is not helping to change that. You talk as a group about going into schools and this is of course important. But worrying about the wording of letters or how to tackle the press is missing the point. These students possibly won't be in a position to decide what professional software they use for quite a few years, even if you do convert them - which you must. Who you should be concentrating on is Joe public - i.e. people like me. I can see Linux is coming, I've had a Xandros box for about 6 months, but I've only managed to transfer perhaps about 5% of my real work onto it, and do that work at about 50% efficiency compared to the same tasks on my other Win2000 box. I & Joe public need some actual training. So do students and their educational peers. Even the EDP computer press correspondent might be interested. And this is the crunch. I don't really want to have to learn about Linux. I want to use a linux based PC to do real work, not mess about with the OS. But I appreciate I must learn the basics. Once I do, other aspects will fall into place over time, just as we all learnt CP/M, DOS & Windows over the years. But it's that 'over the first hump' where help is needed. Well shouldn't I open a book and get stuck in? Yes, probably I should, but I'm reluctant to spend the time leaning about Linux, any more than I want to delve into the inner workings of MS Windows. And anyway you can't ask a book questions can you? There's no substitute to talking to or learning from someone with knowledge, face to face. So what's my point? I think LUGs should be concentrating 100% on education. If you want to stay as a group of professional enthusiasts meeting every so often, then fine. Rename yourselves APLUG. If you want your favoured OS to become universally popular, get out there and start passing on your knowledge. I've been to four of five ALUG meetings and to me they're a waste of time. They're disorganised, and have no focus or agenda, no advance billing of what's to occur. With one exception I don't think I've learnt anything practical from any of these meetings. MJR kindly sorted a software install problem I had, but if today I was faced with the same problem, then I wouldn't know how to fix it. What is needed here is not band aids for on-going software glitches, but a more thorough examination of what's going on to kick start us. Once I'm achieving something as easily on my Xandros system and I can under Windows, then I'm sure to tell friends and recommend Linux. I can't at the moment. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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[Alug]CPU monitoring
by Edenyard 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Tony Dietrich asked: > > Is anyone aware of a command-line program that could be used to monitor > the temperatures of a system? > I installed the lm-sensors package. I found it on a CD supplied with Linux Format magazine several months ago. There is more than one version of lm-sensors, depending upon which kernel version you use. Once installed, typing 'sensors' at the command prompt causes a list of the monitored values to appear. Hope this helps? Gerald.

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[Alug]Norwich ideas: posters and demos?
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Inspired by Colin's message, I thought of this. Talks seem not to work well for us and I think that the RBL isn't really an ideal talk venue, so how about posters? Bring along an A0's worth of paper explaining the topic and be there to talk about it with interested people. If it's a practical topic, bring along a system and demonstrate it too. This also won't interfere with the normal "box-fixing" that goes on. In the past, I remember informal demos being some of the most useful bits, but they're haphazard and unstructured. I'm not suggesting anything really demanding, but a bit of background material put up and some advance warning about what will be there. A bit of background on posters (but a bit more formal) can be found at http://www.lcsc.edu/ss150/poster.htm Hopefully these can satisfy all sorts of people, from beginners to veterans, in the same room at the same time (which I think is the constraint that killed enthusiasm at the first few meetings for my talks suggestions earlier in the year, as it alienates a significant number of the people for a significant chunk of time). For example, I'd love to learn more about building Morphix, but I'm not having much luck yet (bug report open) and I know someone here knows about it... ;-) Could we have a demo and some background material at the next Norwich ALUG? Also, I'm happy to present something at Norwich, but I'd rather take requests. What do you want? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: "Changeset algebra is really difficult."

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[Alug]CPU monitoring
by Tony Dietrich 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Is anyone aware of a command-line program that could be used to monitor the temperatures of a system? -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transcc.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultancy Ltd. -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transoft.demon.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultants

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[Alug]CPU monitoring
by Tony Dietrich 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Is anyone aware of a command-line program that could be used to monitor the temperatures of a system? -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transcc.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultancy Ltd.

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Re: [Alug]Linux & education
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Colin Hards wrote: >Yes, probably I should, but I'm >reluctant to spend the time leaning about Linux, any more than I want to >delve into the inner workings of MS Windows. I've got both MS and Linux PCs here on my desk at work. I've gone to the trouble of finding out how the linux box works, with the result that it performs exceedingly well for my day's work. I can't get at the MS one to do anything about how it works, with the result that I regularly get in a furious temper with it as it performs badly on a daily basis. My point is that you get away with not learning about a windows PC not because it works without having to do so but that you can't anyway mostly. Adam Bower wrote: >Alug is run by the members for the >members if it is not meeting your needs then *you* do something about it. I would say also: ALUG is more a group of enthusiasts who have quite willing spirits to help *where asked*. I don't think anyone has ever advertised themselves to be the equivalent of one of the training courses advertised at vast expense. Personally I have got an enormous amount of help and support from ALUG, if it hadn't been for some of the help at meetings and on list I'd still be programming in visual basic and throwing my single MS computer through the window on a daily basis. Jen.

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Re: [Alug]Next Meeting
by John Seago 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

On Monday 07 July 2003 10:03 am, you wrote: > On Sunday 06 July 2003 19:36, John Seago wrote: > > Where and when is this, I ask as I have a library book I wish to > > return, (without having to drive al the way to Cambridge to give it > > back to Adam, although I may be going that way soon). > > If getting to Bury is easier, I am going to Cambridge on Tues afternoon > and could take if for you. No that's OK, I was of the opinion that the next meeting is sometime this month at Syleham, and I wanted to go to the meeting, more than to return the book. I just can't find the date for the meeting. -- John Seago

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Broken NTL WEB Cache??
by Ian Douglas 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

Hi Folks, My wife enjoys buying bits from eBay now and again but she has been unable to log on since Wednesday. If you are familiar with the login process she completes the login page successfully but when she tries to go to her "My eBay" page (or in fact any page), or do a search, after this she gets a "Page Not Found" DNS error. This error only occurs when accessing eBay using NTL and everything behaves normally if she accesses it using a dial-up ISP. We have no problems with accessing any other sites using NTL; this problem is specific to eBay's site. Yesterday I logged on to eBay using my Dial-Up, done a few "ping"s to suss out the IP Addresses of the relevant eBay servers and manually entered them into my hosts table. This did not resolve the problem so I contacted eBay technical support who suggested that the "DNS Error" we are getting may be a red herring and the problem may be with NTL's WEB Page Cache. I am starting to think eBay's suspicion of a broken NTL WEB Cache is correct. I suppose I could trying ringing NTLs Support helpline but, from past experience, they offer very little useful advice apart from telling me to reformat my hard disk and reinstall Windows (bit of a waste of time as I am not using Windows). I was therefore wondering if anyone else had come across this problem and knows how to get round it. In particular I would firstly like to know if there is a way I can discover conclusively if the problem is indeed with NTL's WEB Cache or not, and secondly, if it is, if there is a way I can bypass this and access the real eBay pages directly. Just in case it is relevant I have tried using Microsoft Explorer 6 on my Windows partition and Mozilla and Opera on my Linux partition. Thanks, Ian.

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[Alug]Bios system time
by Wayne Stallwood 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

I have a small problem with my home machine. The Bios time does not seem to be getting updated with the system time. If I set the time correctly all is fine until I reboot at which point the system time reverts to whatever the bios says it is. Naturally I could go into the bios and reset the time manually but I am interested to find out why it's not getting set by the OS. Does anyone know how the Bios time is updated as the date -s command only seems to affect the system time. Regards Wayne

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[Alug]A. N. Other-Newbie
by David Bishop 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Hello all Just a note to thank you all for providing a welcome to your ship! The appeal of Linux to me? Camaraderie, freedom from spyware, keeping more of the horsepower I paid for, helping he underdog (in market share terms, if not core funtionality) and being sick of "..of course, sir, and the price will be.)" David

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[Alug]Norwich evening meet -Thursday July 10th
by Syd Hancock 01 Jul '03

01 Jul '03

Due to the change from third thursday to second thursday of the month, as previously sent to the list, the next meeting is rushing upon us. Thursday next week in fact, the 10th July. The date is firm but the venue is not yet settled as I would like to sample a few of the altenatives before settling on a long-term venue. More info later. Syd

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[Alug]Calling 'Colin'
by Syd Hancock 01 Jul '03

01 Jul '03

Apologies for noise Could Colin who was at the first Norwich evening meet at the Forum please email me off list? TIA Syd

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[Alug]file permissions and /usr
by Syd Hancock 30 Jun '03

30 Jun '03

I created as root a directory in /usr and used chmod to set permissions. After a reboot the permissions had reverted to what they were before the chmod command. This is probably some basic bit of info that I lack but is this usual? I was very surprised when it happened. Using Mandrake 9.1, mkdir and chmod run from the command line. TIA Syd

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 30 Jun '03

30 Jun '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Linux at City College
by Tarquin Mills 29 Jun '03

29 Jun '03

Derek wrote: > Hi Tarquin [snip] > On another issue: > > Can you give me a *very short* explaination as to why City College should > switch to open source IT? We have a funding crisis at work and need to save > money, so I've suggested we do this to the principle, but I really don't > know much about it. > > If you could point me at something not too tecky, I'd appreciate it. [snip] Someone sent the above to me could you supply me something to give them. Thanks in advance. -- Tarquin Mills Reboot Movement (An Anti-Wintel Campaign) http://www.planet14.sonow4u.co.uk/comp/reboot/

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[Alug]New member - Hi all!
by Ian Higgins 29 Jun '03

29 Jun '03

Hi everyone! Just thought, as I am new to this list, that I would introduce myself and say why I am interested in Linux. My name is Ian Higgins, I am 30 years old and I come from East Dereham in Norfolk. I have been using Windows XP for just over a year now. Basically I got sick of the lack of speed that XP "produces." I have a P4 2.5ghz - Radeon 9700 Pro - 512mb ram - 120 gb HD - and XP is so slow on it - I feel that a modern OS should be much faster than this. Especially given the speed of modern hardware. I also got tired of the constant maintenance that Windows requires to keep it running at anything like a "decent" speed - defragging the hard drive, cleaning out the registry, disabling unused services etc. I feel you shouldn`t have to do this anymore - it is so antiquated. I used an Amiga for 9 years previously and I never had to do any maintenance on that. :-) I decided to give Linux a go - RedHat9 to be precise - a little while ago and haven`t looked back. Once I can get Linux online then XP will be ditched for good - had a few problems with my adsl modem. Linux is such a responsive and beautifully written OS - it reminds me alot of Workbench on my old A1200. Unlike Windows it lets you work the way that you want to - plus it looks so much better to boot. Anyway, that`s all for now. Hope to hear from you all soon. Kind regards, Ian Higgins.

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[Alug]Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much. (Ben Norcutt)
by Ben Norcutt 27 Jun '03

27 Jun '03

Under the MSA agreement you choose the components you wish to licence when you sign a master agreement this master agreement stays in place and then you order upgrades/renewals every 12 or 36 months. Most Schools in Norfolk use Phoenix from Pearsons as their Schools database. Some are using SIMS thne there are other apps like Nova-T and cash accounts for the timetabling and accounting sides respectively as well as all the other software we use so yes all this has to be licensed as well. Under the MSA all machines of pentium class and above have to be licensed you have no choice to stay on the right side of Microsoft and it is this point under which they are currently being investiagted by the OFT about. Every PC has to have a windows licence and on top of that you then have to buy an MSA licence giving you upgrade rights on the OS and any other apps you choose from the list. Cheers, Ben

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Re: [Alug]toshiba CDT440 install problem
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 27 Jun '03

27 Jun '03

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com wrote: > >> I enjoyed my first go at installing woody on laptop with no cdrom drive >> yesterday :-) >> The floor was littered with hurled floppies by the time I went to bed. > Then wbh replied: >Hey - someone else running the same old clunker as me! From what I >remember (last install was August last year) I used TomsRTBT to get as far >as networking, then sucked debootstrap over (I think you need a sane >version of wget, too) Then normal Debian. Seems to be an OK machine but >never got the IRDA going, there's a 2.2 driver for those with serious >amounts of spare time ;-) TomsRTBT has got me out of a few holes before >now... For the record: had another go at this last night, with success this time. Should anyone else wish to try it, my difficulty was coming at the configuring pcmcia stage. After mounting the root filesystem onto the hard drive, I then ran the "configure pcmcia" stage, edited my pcmcia card and driver required into the pcmcia config file using the minimal console on tty2. Then I ran the "configure the network" stage. Although the pcmcia card was configured, it couldn't be activated, so at this stage I went back to tty2 and did a bit of fettling there... I had to create an empty file called "pcmcia-scheme" in /var/lib/misc or some suchplace, as it was grumbling about that. ifconfig showed no eth0 and none of my usual eth0-persuading runes would work, but I eventually found I needed "ifconfig start eth0 192.168.1.111". I could then go back to the installing procedure on the first terminal and install the base system over a network link. :-) I tried downloading TomsRTBT, by the way - thanks for the pointer. Alas, though, when I got to 99% I was told my floppy was full. Now to find out what performance I'll get with a desktop on the machine - it is a present for my dad, he's 73 and has never used a computer, so i thought, well why start with anything other than debian :-) Jenny

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[Alug]Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much.
by Craig 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/News/story.asp?datetime=19+Jun+2003+05%3A15&… Really long url there guys but if you trust tinyurl... http://tinyurl.com/epgo Looks like *nix is spreading around! -- (o_ - Craig Butcher //\ - IT Technician / Unix Support MTH/ENV @ UEA V_/_ - http://www.wizball.co.uk

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Re: [Alug]Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much.
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 25 Jun '03

25 Jun '03

>On Tuesday 24 Jun 2003 3:03 pm, BenE wrote: > >> >> Apologies for not getting the letter done earlier, but here goes... >> >> Dear Sir, >> >> In reply to your frontpage story and editorial from the 24th June. We feel >> the need to expand on what has been mentioned about Linux and the open >> source movement. Firstly, Linux is free. Everything, including word >> processors, professional quality graphics programs and tools for creating >> computer programs can be downloaded from the internet or obtained for >> little more than the price of a blank CD. It is created by thousands of >> dedicated people around the globe, as well as a number of large companies. >> Also it is more stable, secure and it is much harder for viruses to infect >> a machine running Linux. More importantly it works well with older >> computers which would also eliminate the need to constantly buy new >> computers to keep the latest release of windows working properly. >> >> For anybody who is interested, further information and support (including >> potentially visiting schools and demonstrating Linux) can be obtained from >> the local Linux user group at www.alug.org.uk. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> $whoever > >Here's my twopennyworth. I suggest make the first two sentences into one with >a comma after June. Perhaps change Linux is free to Linux is free to Linux >can be obtained for little or no cost. Change 'It is created by' to Linux is >created by. Change 'More importantly it works well' to More importantly >Linux works well (on the basis that the more times the word Linux is >mentioned the more chance it has of sticking in other peoples minds). With >or without these changes I am haapy to append my name to the letter. > >Ian How about "It is also" rather than "Also it is", or even "A machine running Linux is more stable, more secure and much less likely to become infected with a virus"? And maybe clarify the potentially visiting schools bit with "....further information and support can be obtained from the local Linux User Group at www.alug.org,.uk, from which there are willing volunteers prepared to visit schools and give a demonstration of Linux". Please add my name, do! Jen

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[Alug][Fwd: [Fsfe-uk] URGENT (swpat): Graham Watson MEP needs to hear from scared SMEs]
by Chris Lale 24 Jun '03

24 Jun '03

Does anyone work for a SME (small/medium enterprise) and have a concern about the software patent threat to free/open source software? If so, please read this message - forwarded from the Free Software Foundation Europe (UK) list - and email Graham Watson MEP (e-mail: gwatson(a)europarl.eu.int) urgently. Many thanks, Chris. ----- Forwarded message from James Heald <j.heald(a)ucl.ac.youkay> ----- From: James Heald <j.heald(a)ucl.ac.youkay> I've had a message from Erik Josefson, who's on the spot in Brussels trying to head off the software patents directive, can we urgently find SMEs who are worried about software patents to contact Graham Watson MEP. > He needs to be called by SMEs who say > > 1. we are n employees (n as large as possible) > > 2. we have a turnover of XX EUR. > > 3. we are damaged/threatened by patents. It is looking increasingly likely that the full plenary debate in the parliament is going to take place in the session starting 30 June -- ie only ten days away. This gives very little time to educate MEPs, and next to no time to file amendments. It looks as though there is no chance of any kind of exemption for Open Source. The question is whether there are going to be any effective limits placed on patentability. If the plenary goes the same way as Tuesday's committee vote, the answer will be no. Graham Watson is the group leader of the European Liberals, who will be having a group meeting very soon to work out how they are going to vote, and which amendments they need to put down. Watson's contact details are: Office PHS 55 C7, European Parliament, Rue Wiertz, B-1047 Brussels, Belgium Tel. 00 32 2 284 7626 Fax. 00 32 2 284 9626 e-mail: gwatson(a)europarl.eu.int It may be worth cc'ing any emails to the Lib Dem's UK IT spokesman, Richard Allan MP (allanr(a)parliament.uk) Basically unless we can establish that there is really a depth of concern about this issue, among real businesses, the McCarthy text will go through. Best regards, James Heald. Unfortunately I'm going to be away from the net for the next couple of days, but Alex Macfie <alex(a)cgce.net> is either in or just back from Brussels, if you need to know the latest score. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | ___ Chris Lale <ctlale(a)netscape.net> | | / \ | | | <_/ My PC runs Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (http://www.debian.org). | | \ Robust, secure and free operating system + applications. | | `- | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+

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Re: [Alug]Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much.
by BenE 24 Jun '03

24 Jun '03

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Adam Bower wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 03:03:34PM +0100, BenE wrote: > > > > source movement. Firstly, Linux is free. Everything, including word > > I think that defining what is meant by free would make an ideal paragraph, if > you mean that linux is free (as in beer) by that setnance you should perhaps > change it to something along the lines of "Linux is obtainable for free" as it > is a more "correct" thing to write. > Although important, IP freedom might be a bit...I dunno...over the readership's heads? In any case, I'll add the words, 'obtainable for' as it could be misleading... BenE

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Re: [Alug]Linux event in Norwich next month
by MJ Ray 23 Jun '03

23 Jun '03

On 2003-06-23 20:42:37 +0100 Chris Walker <linux(a)wymondham.demon.co.uk> wrote: > These silly RISC-OS users also happen to be Linux users and you're > going the > right way to piss them off. Equally, by continually reraising the same topic with no new information, they are going the right way to piss me off. I have no problem with them using RISC-OS if they can drive their mail client. I have no problem with them posting any new info about this problem. I'm happy to let this lie until there are more developments, but posting more noise than signal is very annoying. > Is this the same approach you're intending to use > on the schools that might soon need help? No. Is this the same fine line of personal attacks that you're intending to use at an ALUG meeting? > I'd take care as you step down from that high horse. People in glass houses, etc. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: "Changeset algebra is really difficult."

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[Alug]Linux event in Norwich next month
by Tarquin Mills 23 Jun '03

23 Jun '03

Peter Naulls member of the ARM-Linux team is going to demonstrate installing Linux on an Iyonix. Castle's Iyonix (http://www.iyonix.com) is the first Xscale desktop computer. Mr Naulls is porting debian ARM-Linux to it, Debonix, see http://www.drobe.co.uk/riscos/artifact673.html Xscale is an ARM processor, a very popular low power cpu architecture. The meeting is at the upstairs room in the new Holy Trinty Church hall Cambridge Street at 7pm on the 17 July, the meeting will end by 10pm. http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=622165&y=307924&z=1&sv=Cambridge&st… Free parking is available at the church on Essex street, as well as free coffee,tea and biscuits. All welcome. -- Tarquin Mills RUNG (RISC OS Users, Norfolk Group)

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[Alug]Re: Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much
by John Seago 23 Jun '03

23 Jun '03

Perhaps it would make more impact with the public if all traffic on the above subject were to be copied to the local papers that ran the story today! -- John Seago

9 21

[Alug]Linux 2003 Conference & Tutorials, Edinburgh, 31 July - 3 Aug
by Alistair Riddell 23 Jun '03

23 Jun '03

The 2003 UKUUG Linux technical conference is taking place in Edinburgh, Scotland from the 31 July to the 3 August 2003. The deadline for early-bird rates offering up to 50% off conference fees is 30th June so be sure to book your place before then. Highlights of the conference include over 30 speakers including Jon 'maddog' Hall of Linux International, the new Debian Project Leader, Martin Michlmayr and optional full-day tutorials including "Inside the Linux Kernel" by Stephen Tweedie of Red Hat. For full details see http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2003/ Sponsors: Positive Internet, Perforce, SGI, Astaro -- Alistair Riddell - BOFH

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 23 Jun '03

23 Jun '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]toshiba CDT440 install problem
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 22 Jun '03

22 Jun '03

Hi all: I enjoyed my first go at installing woody on laptop with no cdrom drive yesterday :-) The floor was littered with hurled floppies by the time I went to bed. I ground to a halt at installing the base system, however. I installed the kernel modules ok, then configured the pcmcia.conf file on console 2 to use my network card and the pcnet_cs driver. This resulted in the two high beeps and lsmod showing pcnet_cs ok. I then configured the network to use eth0 and gave it the appropriate addresses etc. So then I tried to use the network to install the base system, but I can't get eth0 interface up. All the right info is there that I think it should have, but no eth0. Bah. Incidentally, I loaded into ramdisk0 and root fs is currently mounted on /[some-dir-I've-forgotten-the-name-of]. Can anyone think of anything I should be looking for? Interfaces file is in /etc/pcmcia/network. loopback is working. Ta, Jen

4 3

Re: [Alug]Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much.
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 22 Jun '03

22 Jun '03

Neil Marjoram wrote: >I would like to start with a clearly well worded and clearly >demonstrable case to remove MS Office in our schools in favor of Open >Office for each MP in our area (Saving Money in education wins votes!) >It should also be a short non technical non bias paper (if we can be non >bias!). Then lets go for the jugular latter with Linux instead of >Windows (think we need a few more revisions before we have good >desktop). > >I'll go for a draft, but my English and spelling are crap - anyone like >to take up this challenge? Neil - you write a draft and I'll spell check and tweak words a bit, if you like. Jen

9 9

Re: [Alug]Re: Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much
by Ben Francis 22 Jun '03

22 Jun '03

> > The downside for your school may be cost as in replacing old servers, and > paying my time. It depends on their budget. Very quickly, because of > reliability and lack of hassle, it becomes cost effective, of course, and the > licencing fees are nice! > Thanks for the offer but I'm afraid paying someone to set it up for us is out of the question. Firstly we simply can't afford it and secondly we'd be missing out on the experience ourselves. Any advice would be welcome though.

1 0

[Alug]thin client
by Laurie Brown 22 Jun '03

22 Jun '03

Is there anyone in the LUG with some Linux-based thin-client expertise willing and able to talk to me? I have a pretty large potential customer. Cheers, Laurie. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com --------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Alug]Kmail config files
by Syd Hancock 21 Jun '03

21 Jun '03

I am moving a Kmail 1.4 to another machine. The folder Mail in my home directory holds all the messages but I cannot find the location of the config files. I expected to find a 'dot' file in the home directory such as .kmail or something similar but no such luck. Does anyone know the location of the files holding all the Kmail config information? TIA Syd

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[Alug]Open Source penetrates the Leagl market!
by Tony Dietrich 20 Jun '03

20 Jun '03

Given the subjects we've seen on here lately, I though you guys might be interested in the news that the Legal profession seem to be picking up on Linux now .... We've just had a firm order for a network of 12 systems from a small-medium sized firm of solicitors in Kent, mostly on Linux o/s, including desktop systems for the staff. One of the reasons they've crossed the divide is that they reckon they are laying themselves open to claims that the data on their systems may not be secure against intrusion, despite Redmond's denial that they would ever use the rights they claim in their EULA for that purpose. The fact that the staff had a go at a demonstration system, and wanted to switch to Linux was a boost as well :-) The fact that the firm reckons they'll save considerably on TCO helped too, as did the fact that losing the os software costs meant that the project could be brought in for £5k less than if they'd opted for MS. -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transcc.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultancy Ltd. -- Tony Dietrich <td(a)transoft.demon.co.uk> Transoft Computer Consultants

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #8 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 20 Jun '03

20 Jun '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. LOCAL: ALUG Meeting: 19 June 2003, Norwich (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:37:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: ALUG Meeting: 19 June 2003, Norwich [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.7 : Norwich: The Royal British Legion Hall, Aylsham Road, Norwich 19 June 2003 Plan for the meeting Roughly, as follows: We will meet up from 8pm onwards for an informal evening get-together for anyone interested in GNU/Linux. The room is immediately to your left as you enter the bar and is known as 'the TV room'. If you are bringing any equipment that requires mains power bring an extension lead as there seem to be very few electrical sockets. People at the meeting So far, Syd, Paul and MJR are confirmed, while various others are suspected. If you will also be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Be sure to bring all appropriate power cables etc. An extra extension lead will also be a good idea. So far, for this meeting, we know of: MJR A small fluffy penguin to sit on the table, so that you can find us. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [3]use the mailing list. [4]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [5]Join ALUG 2. [6]FAQ 3. [7]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [8]Peterborough 2. [9]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [10]PHP4Hosting 2. [11]Black Cat Networks 3. [12]Martyn Drake 4. [13]Turo Technology LLP You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [14]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 4. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/ 5. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 6. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 8. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 9. http://www.cam-lug.org.uk/ 10. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 11. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 12. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 13. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 14. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Norwich meet this evening
by Syd Hancock 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Just a quick reminder - thursday 19th June (today) at the RBLH (Royal British Legion Hall), Aylsham Road, Norwich. 8-11pm in 'the TV room' immediately to your left as you enter the bar. Should be some sort of sign on the door ranging from a scrawled note to a multi-coloured Tux poster. Hope to see a few people there? Syd

2 2

[Alug]Web cam
by John Woodard 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Can anyone reccomend a Linux friendly webcam for use with Gnomemeeting. Usb 1.1 any suggestions? Also what other webcam apps are worth looking at? Cheers, BJ

2 1

[Alug]Alug library
by Adam Bower 18 Jun '03

18 Jun '03

Hi all, I got some books from O'Reilly last week for us to review, If you would like a copy of a particular book then please mail the list to say so. The one thing you have to consent to doing (apart from promising to look after the book and return it when someone else wants it) is writing a review that I can return to O'Reilly so that they will be prepared to send more review copies in future. Unfortunatly I will not be able to make the meeting tomorrow night as I have other commitments, although if you want to collect books from me then I live in Cambridge. I will also be at the next weeked meeting although I currently have that down as the 17th of August in Syleham courtesy of Big John. (not including tomorrows meeting and further Norwich evening meetings) If anyone has a venue for July (or i have forgotten Julys meeting) can they please step forwards? One possibiliy for the next meeting would be a showing of the Revolution OS DVD, so somewhere with a projector or large tele screen would be really great. Revolution OS website here > http://www.revolution-os.com/ Anyhow the books currently available in the Alug library are (this will be online soon, I just need to get a box built and hosted to put the library system on) Building Embedded Linux Systems Learning Red Hat Linux (3rd edition) Using Samba (2nd edition) Linux server hacks Free as in freedom The Cathedral and the Bazaar The root of all evil (user friendly) Anyhow if you want one of these books or can help with a venue for next month (or remind me where Julys weekend meeting venue is) then I would be very greatful. Thanks Adam -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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