- main - earth.li

Fenland coordinator?
by MJ Ray 03 Nov '03

03 Nov '03

Now that the Ely meetings seem to have got going, who should I list on the web site as the contact for fenland? Suggestions? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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More X4.3.0 keyboard troubles
by MJ Ray 03 Nov '03

03 Nov '03

As you may remember, I'm trying to modify my keyboard to produce the ccircumflex and other characters used by esperanto. I'd like to do this with Xkb rather than xmodmap if possible. I've made a file "eo" in /usr/lib/X11/xkb/symbols which contains the key (re)definitions. After finding a bug that breaks XkbSymbols options and similar in XF86-Config, I edited the gb keymap instead. In /System/Settings/X11/xkb/keymap/xfree86, I now have: xkb_keymap "gb" { xkb_keycodes { include "xfree86" }; xkb_types { include "default" }; xkb_compatibility { include "default" }; xkb_symbols { include "en_US(pc105)+gb+eo" }; xkb_geometry { include "pc(pc102)" }; }; ...and XF86Config points to that layout, I think. It seems not to work, though. I get german double s on AltGr s instead of scircumflex. Running the command: setxkbmap -symbols 'en_US(pc105)+gb+eo' ...makes it work, so I'm sure that's the right symbols string. What mistake am I making? If anyone wants to test this, I'll send the eo file to them on request. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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Announce digest, Vol 2 #22 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 03 Nov '03

03 Nov '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Mini Cambridge-Meet next weekend (Daniel Silverstone) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)digital-scurf.org> To: ALUG Announcements <announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk>, ALUG Main List <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Organization: Digital-Scurf Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 13:22:48 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce]Mini Cambridge-Meet next weekend Hi, Debian-UK often have mini debian-meets in the Cambridgeshire area. The meets tend to be informal geekery centered around pubs and bookshops (and sometimes coffee). There is a plan to have a mini-meet in Cambridge on Saturday the 8th. The plan (as ever) is to meet at 12:00 in the Regal (wetherspoon pub under the arts cinema) and then dither for several hours. If you're interested in Debian, or just fancy a chat with a bunch of geeks (although conversation does tend to be centered around Debian) then feel free to come along and introduce yourselves. See you there. D. -- Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)digital-scurf.org> Digital-Scurf --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 03 Nov '03

03 Nov '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Mini Cambridge-Meet next weekend
by Daniel Silverstone 02 Nov '03

02 Nov '03

Hi, Debian-UK often have mini debian-meets in the Cambridgeshire area. The meets tend to be informal geekery centered around pubs and bookshops (and sometimes coffee). There is a plan to have a mini-meet in Cambridge on Saturday the 8th. The plan (as ever) is to meet at 12:00 in the Regal (wetherspoon pub under the arts cinema) and then dither for several hours. If you're interested in Debian, or just fancy a chat with a bunch of geeks (although conversation does tend to be centered around Debian) then feel free to come along and introduce yourselves. See you there. D. -- Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)digital-scurf.org> Digital-Scurf

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Paging Console Output During Startup
by Keith Watson 02 Nov '03

02 Nov '03

When Mark gave his excellent talk at the Billy Blueboy about system start-up, it was mentioned that there are some Ctrl+ key combinations that allow you to page back and forth through the start up messages. Can anyone remind me what that are? Keith

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Norwich Spectrum and SAM Show (ORSAM 2003)
by Tarquin Mills 02 Nov '03

02 Nov '03

[Posted and mailed] *** Press release about a local event *** The first major Sinclair ZX Spectrum and Sam Coupé Computer Show (ORSAM 2003) in 5 years in the UK, is taking place next Saturday, 1st November, in Norwich. The venue will be at the Alec Bussey Scout Centre off Rowington Road, near Grove Road and the Norwich Bus Station. Open from 10am to 4pm. Entry free. Refreshments available. Free car parking. There is a map available (under 'travel') on the show website http://homepage.ntlworld.com/speccyverse/orsam.htm A variety of traders will be present. Visitors from as far away as Germany and Cornwall have said they will be attending. The show will opened by Councillor Steve Land, of the Green Party. There will be a raffle, and a bring and buy stall. While ORSAM 2003 officially only supports the Spectrum and SAM range, Z88 and ZX81 will be there unofficially. If next show happens, it may widen to officially include all Sinclair (and related) 8-bit formats. QL users will be able to get taste of what the March Norwich Quanta Workshop will be like. -- Tarquin Mills ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society) http://www.planet14.sonow4u.co.uk/comp/accus/

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New member Martin
by Martin Collins 01 Nov '03

01 Nov '03

Hi everyone and thanks for the Norwich area meeting info Syd - appreciate it. I first stumbled onto Linux with a SuSE 7.2 box set from a book shop a couple of years ago. Installed it on my 300MHz Celeron IBM Thinkpad 240 laptop but a buggy version of XFree (so I found out later) and my inexperience resulted in me giving up on Linux for another 6 months. Since then I've experimented a lot, installing various distros including MDK8.2, 9.0, RH8.0, Lycoris, Slackware & a partial Debian install (I gave up half way as I became confused & bored with all the questions). After dual booting on my self-built 1.4GHz Athlon desktop for a while with Windows, I became fed up with MS OS problems, freeze ups, crashes, expensive software, etc. and so finally settled and went 100% over to Linux with SuSE 8.2 Pro - no probs since. SuSE is still on my desktop now but last night couldn't help myself but to install MDK9.2 on my laptop - just to have a look. Mmm its OK'ish on first glance. Noticed a couple of glitches but never have got on very well with MDK on that laptop. But I will carry on with it for a while. My Wife, who isn't particularly good or interested in computers, made the switch from Windows to Linux with only about 15 mins training from me, and happily e-mails, surfs and writes letters with no problems. I also became fed up of fixing my Mother's MS Windows problems and she now also runs SuSE 8.2 (Personal) and I hardly ever get called out to fix problems anymore - thank goodness. I've always wanted to program and Linux sure does give me the freedom to learn and play in this respect. I am currently learning C++ together with QT. I am a deck officer (navigator) in the merchant navy so my first and current project is a navigation/passage planning program. Haven't actually seen any similar software for Linux but if anyone knows of any links please let me know. Also reading (but not coding yet) books on PHP & MYSQL/Postgre. Anyway that's all the guff about me out of the way. Will try and contribute something more interesting in future but am enjoying the mailing list digest very much indeed. Thanks all. Martin

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Multiple monitors
by Louise J M Worthington 31 Oct '03

31 Oct '03

It's a long shot, but does anyone know if its possible when using two monitors to have X running on only one of them a console on the other? Thanks Louise

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Quick intro from a new member
by Dave Briggs 31 Oct '03

31 Oct '03

Hello all I just thought I would send a quick email round, I only joined the list yesterday. I currently live in Ely, but as of this weekend will be moving to King's Lynn - well into the heart of ALUG territory! I work at the University in Cambridge, which is going to be a long haul every day but who cares when the rent is as cheap as it is in Lynn! I run Mandrake 9.1 on a dual boot with Windows at home. I am hardly technically proficient, but I just like the idea of open source software. My main interest lies in web site creation, and I run a book discussion website called Palimpsest - http://www.palimpsest.org.uk . I am still having some teething troubles with Linux, my soundcard seems to refuse to work and I haven't got round to buying a proper modem yet, so any internetting has to be done through Windows or at work :-( Anyhow, that's enough from me. Dave

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Re: [ALUG] DOSemu - serial help needed
by Edenyard 31 Oct '03

31 Oct '03

Thanks for that, Owen! I've just sent a message to the DOSemu list as you recommend - will be interesting to see what comes back! Cheers, Gerald. On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:41:49 +0000, owen.churchcowley <owen.churchcowley(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > Have you tried mailing the DosEmu list, its a good product and unlikely someone > who is on it has not hit this problem before, failing that they may know where > the bug is, have a patch or at the least know the location of thier bug track > location.

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Re: [ALUG] Re: [Alug]OT: Standard of IT in schools across the country
by Ben Norcutt 31 Oct '03

31 Oct '03

>The d/l was blocked by the security s/w and I was told by the >network manager that it was blocked by the LEA provider not the >school. Glad to hear that it's not the case everywhere in Norfolk >though. Ah ok well we all go through the county proxy farm at bt which runs on symantec igear but they are always making changes and tweaking stuff. If it wasn't an igear ddr access denied page then it was blocked by county but they do block a lot of stupid stuff. Then again there's always around it :) Cheers, Ben

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DOSemu - serial help needed
by Edenyard 30 Oct '03

30 Oct '03

Please could someone help me with this DOSemu problem: I've installed DOSemu V1.9.99 (a.k.a. 1.2.0) and have got it running quite nicely on Slackware 9.1 (2.4.22 kernel). It recognises the DOS partition on the HDD and will run programmes like Xtree and Wordstar without any problems. However, I have a programme written in Turbo Basic that accesses the serial port (COM1) and I'm having trouble getting it to talk to the port properly under DOSemu. This is the error message I get as DOSemu is coming up: ERROR: PORT: conflicting devices: COM1 & std port io The programme appears to be able to send out of the port but cannot get any data coming back in. I've set /etc/dosemu/dosemu.conf to deal with the COM1 port like this: $_com1 = "/dev/ttyS0 irq 4" $_ports = " device /dev/ttyS0 fast range 0x3f8,0x3ff" $_irqpassing = "4" but I can't stop the 'conflict' message or get any data from the port into my programme. The remainder of the programme appears to work properly, even printing to what it thinks is LPT1. I've an idea that I need to tell Linux to ignore COM1 (ttyS0) so that the DOS programme can have it, but I don't know how to do this. Is there a parameter to give to a module or the kernel at boot time, or something like that? I've tried DOSemu V1.0.2 and get the same problem, so I'm sure it's something I'm doing that's messing it up, rather than a DOSemu bug. Any ideas, please, anyone? Gerald.

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Re: Welcome to the "main" mailing list
by Tim Green 30 Oct '03

30 Oct '03

On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 09:01:01PM +0000, main-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > We welcome new members and we'd especially like you to send a short > description of why you're interested in Linux to the mailing list. Hello! I was invited to this evening's Ely social in The Fountain, but without enough warning! So here I am at home *clickerty-click* subscribing to the mailing lists. I have been using Linux since 1993 when I discovered I could re- partition my university's public PCs and dual boot between DOS and a unix. SLS Linux needed quite a few floppies! I now run Debian on half my PCs, and I gave up dual booting because I like to be able to run both Linux apps and Win32 apps at the same time. Maybe I'll try one of those emulator-y things like VMWare one day. I like using Linux because I feel I have much more control over my computers. I can choose to share files and other resources, and I can choose not to. And its free! If only I had a bit more free time to take advantage of the free speech aspect of Linux ... Tim.

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Re: [Alug]OT: Standard of IT in schools across the country
by Ben Norcutt 30 Oct '03

30 Oct '03

>And, in Norfolk schools at least, can't d/l ISOs either which is a >disappointment. Syd, I don't know why you came up with that statement which is blatently untrue as I download lots of iso's from different sources all the time. We can send smtp mail using the country mail relay, ssl sites are fine, pinging web servers works, irc doesn't. As far as the best sites being filtered etc... well there are always ways Cheers, Ben

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Re: [ALUG] Ely meeting report
by Simon.Turner＠LDS.spx.com 30 Oct '03

30 Oct '03

Kirsten Naylor wrote: >> A pleasant meeting in the Fountain, attended by Rob, Daniel, Simon, Ted, >> Kirsty and Adam. Daniel Silverstone wrote: > It was nice to meet Simon and Ted at last. The conversation was indeed > nice and geeky, I think adding the deck of cards to the mix helped to > fill any awkward silences a bunch of geeks often end up generating, > albeit not trying to do so ;-) Many thanks to you all for making me welcome! Interesting that three of us were from the same village. If you can persuade Tim to attend next time then there would be four! I enjoyed the cards - would be more than interested in bringing a laptop to a suitable venue in the future ... > I'm all for making this a more regular thing for the Ely/Nr-Ely crowd. > Perhaps every two or three weeks would be good. Admittedly it'd be nice > if we could get a venue to have a talk etc, but just making sure there's > face2face socialising within the LUG is a good thing. Agreed - I guess somewhere with some bandwidth would be good :-), although not always easy in the Fens. See you next time ... Simon -- Simon Turner

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Ely meeting report
by Kirsten Naylor 30 Oct '03

30 Oct '03

A pleasant meeting in the Fountain, attended by Rob, Daniel, Simon, Ted, Kirsty and Adam. A penguin was present, as was lots of very interesting conversation about wireless internet, open source hardware etc etc (over a game of cards :). We met at 7pm (well, a bit after 7 for most of us - sorry Rob and Daniel!) and did not adjourn till after 10.30pm so it was a good night out! /Kirsten

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Re: [Alug]Suse 8.1 Live Eval CD problem
by Syd Hancock 30 Oct '03

30 Oct '03

On Sunday 26 Oct 2003 8:54 pm, IanBell wrote: > On Sunday 26 Oct 2003 5:12 pm, Syd Hancock wrote: > > This is a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. When I > > first got my T23 Think[ad a couple of months ago I tried a Suse > > 8.1 Live Evaluation disk in it and what happened when it went > > past the opening screen was really scary. [...] > It doesn't, by any chance, have an LG CDRW drive does it?? I > have heard of problems with this drive and distros which have > packet writing enabled (like Suse 8.1 and Mandrake 9.2 but not > Mandrake 9.1). No I don't think it's the CDrom - it's an IBM drive (may be badged I suppose). The current problem with the LG drive and mdk9.2 is because the drive firmware uses a command which is intended to flush the buffers to flash the rom instead... hence dead CD drives while trying to instal mdk9.2 - nasty. LG's response is that their drives 'don't support linux'. Hmm. These LG drives are used in the Dell Optiplex BTW if anyone out there needs to know. I have a couple of them, they are a very nice machine, solidly made and an easy install (with mandrake 9.1 and knoppix at least) so I will not be using mdk 9.2 (which so far does not look as if it is going to be one of Mandrake's better distros unfortunately - many bugs have appeared within days of release. mdk9.1 is pretty solid though). Syd

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[Alug]OT: Standard of IT in schools across the country
by Ashley 29 Oct '03

29 Oct '03

Sorry to be off-topic, but I was hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction (if I remember correctly, some of the people on the list have experience with educational institutions). I have recently got involved in the creation of a CDROM presentation to be placed inside schools (high schools and sixth form). In order to do this, I need to get a grasp on the specs for the machines I am deploying on. I discussed this with Norfolk County Council and was told the following was recommended locally: * Windows 98 or XP * 1.7Ghz / 80Gb / 256 Ram * All students had Internet access on their desktops This only covers Norfolk of course and is only a recommendation I was wondering if a national minimum standard of computer technology exists, or whether each school sets their own standard? Please email me onlist, or directly if you can help. Ashley

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ALUG Meeting
by Martin Collins 29 Oct '03

29 Oct '03

Hi only just joined the list a few days ago. Would like to attend meeting if that's OK as have yet to meet anyone else who uses Linux. Rgds, Martin Collins

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Meeting
by Martin Collins 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

Sorry, my geography is a bit off. Didn't realise it was so far from me. Maybe next time but will cancel. Rgds, Martin

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Calling Zaurus owners
by Wayne Stallwood 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

Is anybody out there using OpenZaurus ? After 6 months or so of not looking at it, I'd thought I'd give it another go. Open Zaurus 3.2 has a strange bug for me. If I suspend/unsuspend the Zaurus with a CF card inserted I frequently get no response from Opie for about 30 seconds. Sometimes I get a login prompt at the bottom of the screen. It's bug number 733158 (and I have just added some comments) Has anybody else experienced this (and hopefully found a workaround) I'd love to switch from the Sharp Rom, but problems like this keep getting in my way.

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Re: OT: Standard of IT in schools across the country
by Ben Norcutt 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

>Such bravery, putting XP net-facing in such numbers. Of course they keep >all the machines patched... Nobody said anything about the machines being Internet facing. All connections from Schools to the Internet by the links provided by Norfolk LEA are one big VPN. This then goes into a server farm of proxies at baynard house provided by BT then through the BT networks to the outside world. Information on standards etc... for Schools can be found on the DFES website. I know personally that as a School our budget isn't big enough to include upgrading and replacing machines this money has come from the Government via NGFL funding. Cheers, Ben Norcutt

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Announce digest, Vol 2 #21 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Ely Wed 29 Oct (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:36:31 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Ely Wed 29 Oct [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.15: Ely: Fountain 29 October 2003 Plan for the meeting We'll meet at [3]the Fountain at 1900. Someone will put a penguin on the table, ALUGgers will gather round and chat. Because we're in a pub, please only bring portable equipment like laptops and handhelds. People at the meeting So far, Adam, Kirsty, Rob and Daniel look fairly certain to be there. If you will be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Use [4]the meeting transport page if you can share your journey. Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [5]use the mailing list. [6]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [7]Join ALUG 2. [8]FAQ 3. [9]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [10]Peterborough 2. [11]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [12]PHP4Hosting 2. [13]Black Cat Networks 3. [14]Martyn Drake 4. [15]Turo Technology LLP 5. [16]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [17]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.britishpubguide.com/cgi-bin/pub.cgi?results:Cambridgeshire:1147 4. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?MeetingTransport 5. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 6. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 10. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 11. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 12. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 13. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 14. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 15. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 16. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 17. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Gnoppix
by Keith Watson 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

Has anyone else seen and tried Gnoppix (www.gnoppix.org)? Gnoppix is a Knoppix clone that uses Gnome 2+ rather than KDE. Keith

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[Alug]Suse 8.1 Live Eval CD problem
by Syd Hancock 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

This is a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. When I first got my T23 Think[ad a couple of months ago I tried a Suse 8.1 Live Evaluation disk in it and what happened when it went past the opening screen was really scary. The machine totally locked up with a blank screen, the green leds were flashing, the fan came on and the hot air was really hot and smelled of hot electronics... the thing was totally locked up and not even the power button would do anything. I really thought it was totally fried (lm_sensors was the first thing I thought of) but thankfully after a few minutes the fan stopped and I was able to power it up again and take the CD out. Since then I have installed mandrake 9.1 with no problems (except the minor glitch of getting a video driver) and has run perfectly ever since. Knoppix no probelms either (and it has the correct video driver too). But it has put me right off Suse which I would actully like to try out. Has anyone else seen this and/or does anyone have any comments? Syd

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[Alug]Suse Problems
by Nick Daniels 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

HI Suse 8.0, 8.1, 8.2, total system freeze only when connected to internet, and running KDE The freeze occurs about once in fifteen times connected to internet num lock light flashes, caps lock flashes, I can run Gnome forever and the system never locks I have a normal dial up connection Mandrake O.K , i have a normal dial up connnection and external modem System xp1600 , 768Mb ram, hard disc IBM deskstar Regards Nick Daniels

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RE: Re[2]: [Alug]Problem 2 - Unkillable processes
by Jenny Hopkins 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

> Stuart Clark <stuart.clark(a)Jahingo.com> wrote: > > > Barry Samuels wrote: > > > > > > Just recently I have started an application that then freezes. It > > > shows in the list of processes viewed using something like KDE > > > System Guard or Top but cannot be killed by using either of the > > > above or 'kill' from the command line. > > > > > > > Have you tried kill -9 <pid> ? > > No but I did try from KDE System Guard using KILL rather than > TERM and that didn't work so I imagine that kill -9 <pid> > wouldn't work either but I will try it if (when?) it happens again. > There is also "kill -s KILL <pid>" which sometimes works if kill doesn't. Jen

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Problem 2 - Unkillable processes
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

Just recently I have started an application that then freezes. It shows in the list of processes viewed using something like KDE System Guard or Top but cannot be killed by using either of the above or 'kill' from the command line. Is there any way of killing these processes? The only way that I have found is to reboot which seems a bit drastic. Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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Re: [Alug]Problem 2 - Unkillable processes
by Stuart Clark 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Barry Samuels wrote: > > Just recently I have started an application that then freezes. It > shows in the list of processes viewed using something like KDE System > Guard or Top but cannot be killed by using either of the above or > 'kill' from the command line. > Have you tried kill -9 <pid> ? - -- Stuart Clark mailto:stuart.clark@Jahingo.com http://www.Jahingo.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/m9wM8fzjqiF3TCIRApmtAJ0RDCFEdbpH0KcThXx7KFnDejAc2wCdHEtL n9lQ296Q3dLpJkbIwSQG/5Y= =zAVW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [Alug]Problem 1 - Snort and local LAN
by Stuart Clark 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Barry Samuels wrote: > > Debian has a DEBIAN_SNORT_HOME_NET variable which should be set to > 192.168.n.n/nn. What do I need to set it to to disregard anything > coming from 19.168.anything? > If that is how it is expecting it use '192.168.0.0/16' The simplest netmasks to remember are 8, 16, 24 & 32 which correspond to 192.x.x.x, 192.168.x.x, 192.168.0.x and 192.168.0.1 (ie one of the 4 'dotted quads' more each time until a 32 which is a single ip address) - -- Stuart Clark mailto:stuart.clark@Jahingo.com http://www.Jahingo.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/m9vp8fzjqiF3TCIRAuy8AJ9U3tw5R1+QIcCMpKO0wuDDZBhgBwCeIJBh eVQW415oDuJ//GyuejMwEc0= =OeEH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Alug]Problem 1 - Snort and local LAN
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

My computer has two LAN sockets on eth0 and eth1. My home network is connected via eth0 and my ADSL router via eth1. I want Snort to disregard activity on either eth0 or eth1 and to monitor only traffic coming from the Internet where the router's address is 192.168.n.n. Debian has a DEBIAN_SNORT_HOME_NET variable which should be set to 192.168.n.n/nn. What do I need to set it to to disregard anything coming from 19.168.anything? I especially don't understand the net mask bit even though I have read a bit about it. Goes over the head I'm afraid. Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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RE: [Alug]Time to give something back
by Karl Foley 25 Oct '03

25 Oct '03

Ian Douglas now has all the Sun kit. I made him promise before I left that if he found he had no use/too much then would he pass it on. I hope you're doing ok with it Ian, I'm just glad I eventually remembered the root password! --- ATB, Karl. -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan McDowell [mailto:noodles@earth.li] Sent: 23 October 2003 23:49 To: Karl Foley Subject: Re: [Alug]Time to give something back On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 10:45:24PM +0100, Karl Foley wrote: > Due to a clear out I now find I've got nowhere to store my Sun kit so > would like to donate it to a loving home. I have had a flavour of > Linux (Debian?) running on it but most of the time it's been running good old Solaris. > > Details of what I have are: > > Sparc 5 Base Station > Scsi Cdrom > Floppy > 128MB RAM > 2 Internal SCA Scsi drives > > Sparc 5 Base Station > Scsi Cdrom > Floppy (I think) > 64MB RAM (I think) > 1 Internal SCA Scsi drive I'd love some better Sun kit; if either of these are still available I'll gladly take one. Obviously the one with more RAM would be more appealing if it's still free. J. -- I don't tip. This .sig was brought to you by the letter G and the numbers 5 & 20 Product of the Republic of HuggieTag

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #20 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 25 Oct '03

25 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. RE: Stallman Visit ( (Ted Harding)) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:55:48 +0100 (BST) Reply-To: Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Subject: [Alug Announce]RE: Stallman Visit On 24-Oct-03 announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:39:19 +0100 > From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> > To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Organization: Very poor > Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: 2003-10-22 12:00:15 +0100 > From: Nick Hill <nick(a)nickhill.co.uk> > Subject: RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. > > I have just had news that RMS is suffering a broken arm in a Finnish > hospital. His trip to the UK is in the balance. > > In order to keep people up to date about the current status of RMS' > trip to the UK and whether the speeches will go ahead/ in what form, I > have put up a web page: > > http://www.nickhill.co.uk/rms-speech-status.html According to messages on the Sheflug and linux-users lists, RMS will in fact be travelling to the UK after all (due to speak in Sheffield on Saturday). Ted. =================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:43:11 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Ibbotson <richard(a)sheflug.co.uk> To: David Johnson <dj(a)david-web.co.uk> Subject: [linux-users] Re: RMS Speech in balance Cc: linux-users(a)lists.man.ac.uk, man-lug(a)lists.man.ac.uk Hi Just got some mail from RMS. He says he will be here in Sheffield as was originally planned for Saturday afternoon. So, I'll look forward to meeting anyone from the other side of the hill who hopes to come along :) Thanks Richard www.sheflug.org http://lists.man.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 24-Oct-03 Time: 16:55:48 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Linux Install Problems
by Stuart Hammond 25 Oct '03

25 Oct '03

Im having a problem installing red hat 9 and suse 8.2 on my desktop computer as both crash out in installation, the system i use is an intel PIII 750 with 128mb ram and 40GB hard drive when red hat starts to install to the hard drive it and displays the message "abnormal install error -- signal 11 sent" and in SuSE also at the start of installation it displays the error message "XFree86 - man - 4.3.0 - 15 ERROR (instTarget:some subprocessesfailed) -?- Any suggestions any one? Yours S Hammond

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[Alug]The Broadband Search Continues
by Nick Heppleston 24 Oct '03

24 Oct '03

As the title of this e-mail suggests, the search for broadband continues. After a brief dabble in wireless with a local ISP, which unfortunately came to nothing, I'm now investigating one-way satellite broadband. I've found a supplier called netsystems ( www.netsystem.com ) who use Astra for the downlink aspect of the connection. I can make a slight modification to my Sky dish (i.e. add a dual LNB) and pick up the signal. However, I need to invest in what Net Systems call a 'Sat Modem'. They ship a free Windows 'Sat Modem' when you sign up, but I'm interested to know whether anyone has ever come across a Linux compatible 'sat modem'? I may be forced to move my Gentoo based router to a Win2k install to benefit from the faster connection offered by the satellite (Help!!!!) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

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[Alug]RE: Stallman Visit
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 24 Oct '03

24 Oct '03

[forwarding this to Alug direct since in fact I replied to "announce" and it may be delayed] -----FW: <XFMail.031024165548.Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk>----- Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:55:48 +0100 (BST) From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Subject: RE: Stallman Visit On 24-Oct-03 announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:39:19 +0100 > From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> > To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Organization: Very poor > Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: 2003-10-22 12:00:15 +0100 > From: Nick Hill <nick(a)nickhill.co.uk> > Subject: RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. > > I have just had news that RMS is suffering a broken arm in a Finnish > hospital. His trip to the UK is in the balance. > > In order to keep people up to date about the current status of RMS' > trip to the UK and whether the speeches will go ahead/ in what form, I > have put up a web page: > > http://www.nickhill.co.uk/rms-speech-status.html According to messages on the Sheflug and linux-users lists, RMS will in fact be travelling to the UK after all (due to speak in Sheffield on Saturday). See below. Ted. =================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:43:11 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Ibbotson <richard(a)sheflug.co.uk> To: David Johnson <dj(a)david-web.co.uk> Subject: [linux-users] Re: RMS Speech in balance Cc: linux-users(a)lists.man.ac.uk, man-lug(a)lists.man.ac.uk Hi Just got some mail from RMS. He says he will be here in Sheffield as was originally planned for Saturday afternoon. So, I'll look forward to meeting anyone from the other side of the hill who hopes to come along :) Thanks Richard www.sheflug.org http://lists.man.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ========================================================== -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 24-Oct-03 Time: 17:45:01 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #19 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 24 Oct '03

24 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. (fwd) (MJ Ray) 2. RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:07:04 +0100 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-10-21 18:54:35 +0100 From: James Heald <j.heald(a)ucl.ac.uk> Subject: [Fsfe-uk] Fwd: [SWPAT] EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. Below is (very slightly revised) an email alert sent out to FFII supporters. Faxes sent to MPs today/tonight could be particularly important (especially if the local MP is a Lib Dem). Use www.faxyourmp.com Please forward this alert at will to any mailing lists where it has not already been posted. --------------------------------------------------------------------- [SWPAT] EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. A web version can be found at http://www.ffii.org.uk/council.html Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure UK Dear Supporter[1], In September the European Parliament voted[2] for strong restrictions[3] on software patentability, after having heard powerful arguments from economists[4], scientists[5], small business associations[6] and MEPs[7] that software patents would be bad for e-commerce[8], bad for small businesses[9], and bad for innovation[10]. But this vote is in danger of being set aside[11] at a meeting of the EU's Competitiveness Council of Ministers[12] on 10 November. The ministers' meeting is to be "negotiated" at a meeting of senior patent officials[13] from across Europe even sooner: this Thursday 23 October. If UK ministers cannot be convinced otherwise before 10 November, it is believed they will push for the Council to adopt a November 2002 draft text[14], which is even worse than the infamous McCarthy report[15]. The European Parliament's rules for second reading make it very difficult for MEPs to fix a bad text from the Council. So far UK ministers have been sleepwalking, automatically following a Patent Office script. The FFII is therefore calling for all supporters to contact their local MPs, as soon as possible. We have until 10 November at the latest to wake up UK ministers up the dangers of software patents. If at all possible we need to try to make an impact before this Thursday. It could be our last good chance to stop software patents in Europe. Every letter could be the one which tips the balance. Every letter counts. Best regards, Software Patents Workgroup, FFII-UK Supporters elsewhere in Europe may like to look at this page at FFII[16] for information on who to contact, and what else can be done. Know your stuff: * How important is the Council of Ministers? * What is the UK position? * Are software patents good for software developers? * What does the minister need to know? * Who to contact * How to be effective * How to stay in touch How important is the Council of Ministers? VERY. The European Parliament's rules for second reading make it far more difficult for MEPs to fix a bad text from the Council, because any amendments need an absolute majority[17] of all of the 623 elected MEPs -- ie usually far more than 50% of those actually voting in the chamber. What is the UK position? UK policy has so far been led by the UK Patent Office[18]. The UKPO has been particularly active in lobbying[19] for unlimited patentability and is unlikely to support a platform which is acceptable to anyone except the patent industry. Unless they can be convinced otherwise, UK Government ministers are being led by UKPO officials to support the November 2002 draft[20] drawn up by patent offices across Europe. The Nov 2002 version actively supports software patenting, unlike the September 2003 European Parliament text[21]. Replies from ministers[22] are claiming that the UK Patent Office's consultation[23] 3 years ago produced results which were "broadly in favour" of the UKPO position. In fact, the views[24] of software professionals (as opposed to patent professionals) were overwhelmingly against software patents. Are software patents good for software developers? NO. "Software patents are like landmines for programmers. At each design decision, there is a chance you will step on a patent and it will destroy your project. Considering the large number of ideas that must be combined in a modern program, the danger becomes very large." -- Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU project. Supporters of e-patents often make the simple equation patents ==innovation == growth. One of the most interesting articles to rebut this is "e-Patents and financial investing"[25] by Laura Creighton, a software venture capitalist. It explains why software patents are not necessary, nor usually even helpful, and give surprisingly little real protection. Software patents are bad for e-commerce[26], bad for small businesses[27] and bad for innovation[28]. That is why leading economists[29], scientists[30], small business associations[31], and MEPs[32] all urged the European Parliament to vote against software patents. What does the minister needs to know? * Our central request is for the the Council of Ministers not to adopt its draft November 2002 text[33] unamended, but instead to substantially revise it, adopting and building on the Parliament amendments. * Most importantly, we need to convince the Government that software patents are a bad idea. Ministers should not just follow the advice of the UK Patent Office (UKPO) uncritically. Currently UKPO are both judge and jury, and about as likely to campaign for real limits on software patents as turkeys are to vote for Christmas. Ministers must be challenged to consider for themselves what is really in the best interests of the UK software industry and all UK computer users. * Free software is directly threatened[34] by software patents. But it is essential that the campaign against software patents is not just "special pleading" by supporters of Open Source--"free-love, open-standard, freeware fanatics" according to one patent lawyer. The entire industry would be damaged by patenting and litigation. If you write about free software, please make clear how important it is to the whole software industry and commercial end-users. * The directive claims to allow the patenting of new "technical" devices, but not the patenting of "generic pure software". But the EPO regards almost any software innovation as technical[35]. Without an explicit definition, European Courts will be forced to follow the EPO doctrine. The European Parliament's most important amendment is its new very clear definition of what is and what is not "technical". * The November 2002 draft also makes abstract data processing a field of technology[36]; has no article 6a to allow interoperability[37] -- and it would allow program claims[38], so that just discussing code on a website can be a direct patent infringement. Ministers must re-open the November 2002 text. Every letter counts. Who to contact * WRITE to your local MP as soon as possible with your concerns about software patents, and ask your MP to bring them to the attention of Stephen Timms MP[39], the minister for e-commerce at the DTI. * BY ASKING your local MP to forward your concerns, you should get a reply personally signed by the minister. You could of course just write to the minister directly; but if you do, you will just receive a standard civil service reply, and the minister will never see it. * FIND your local MPs by typing your postcode in www.faxyourmp.com Then WRITE to your MP at: Name of MP, House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA * COPY your letters to uk-parl-sent @ ffii.org.uk, and replies to uk-parl-replies @ ffii.org.uk You should only write to your own local MP. You may also wish to send a blind copy of your letter to [40]Richard Mulcahy at the Patent Office. How to be effective * DO: make your letter personal. Explain who you are, how this issue affects you, and why it matters to you. * DON'T: write the same as everybody else. MPs ignore form letters. Decide which is the most logical or important starting point for you, and then bring in other points around that. * IF you are: + a small business: tell your MP why and how a rush to software patents would afftect your business. Be sure to mention your turnover and number of employees -- real money and real jobs are at stake. + a user of software: tell your MP what makes you afraid of monopolisation and loss of choice. + a member of a political party, a trade union, a university, a consumer organisation, a business association, or any other sort of organised body: think how you can mobilise your organisation to make its voice heard. + a consultant: explain to your clients - and the MP - why software patents will make it harder for you to solve their problems. * DO: be polite, reasonable and well-informed (insane abuse doesn't help). Be focussed and to the point. If your letter is very long, write a short one-page executive summary bulletting the main points, and use it as a covering letter to introduce the full brain dump. * DO: spread the word. There is very little time, and we need to make a huge impact. So unless you want to see legislation for unlimited patentability, pass the message on to other people. Encourage them to write. How to stay in touch * Join the FFII list of supporters[41] * Sign the Eurolinux petition[42] against software patents. * If you want to do more, or to keep in touch with the campaign daily, join the ffii-uk email list at ffii.org.uk - further instructions on the FFII-UK main page[43]. _________________________________________________________________ References 1. You have been sent this email because you have expressed concern about software patents in Europe, either by signing the Eurolinux Petition http://noepatents.org and/or the FFII Call for Action http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/demands/ We intend to use these lists very occasionally, to send updates and information alerts on the progress of the software patent directive through the European system. Such messages will have [SWPAT] as the first word in their subject lines. If you would prefer not to receive any more such messages, please send a reply to this email with the subject line "Remove". Thank you for your support. 2. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39116642,00.htm 3. http://swpat.ffii.org/journal/03/fsfr1010/index.en.html 4. http://www.researchineurope.org/policy/patentdirltr.htm 5. http://www.greens-efa.org/pdf/documents/SoftwarePatenting/petitiontoEP_EN.p… 6. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/ceapme0309/index.en.html 7. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/plen0309/deba/#framm 8. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#ecommerce 9. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#developers 10. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#innovation 11. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39116709,00.htm 12. http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/CouncilOfMinisters 13. http://register.consilium.eu.int/scripts/utfregisterDir/WebDriver.exe?MIval… 14. http://www.ffii.org.uk/nov2002.html 15. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/amccarthy0302/index.en.html 16. http://swpat.ffii.org/group/todo/index.en.html 17. http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+RULES-EP+2003020… 18. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/ippd/issues/softpat.htm 19. http://swpat.ffii.org//players/uk/index.en.html 20. http://www.ffii.org.uk/nov2002.html 21. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/ 22. http://www.ffii.org.uk/hewitt.html 23. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/consultations/conclusions.htm 24. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/consultations/responses/comsoft/index.htm 25. http://www.vrijschrift.org/swpat/030508_1/ 26. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#ecommerce 27. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#developers 28. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#innovation 29. http://www.researchineurope.org/policy/patentdirltr.htm 30. http://www.greens-efa.org/pdf/documents/SoftwarePatenting/petitiontoEP_EN.p… 31. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/ceapme0309/index.en.html 32. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/plen0309/deba/#framm 33. http://www.ffii.org.uk/nov2002.html 34. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/stallman-patents.html 35. http://www.ffii.org.uk/technical.html 36. http://www.ffii.org.uk/fields_of_tech.html 37. http://www.ffii.org.uk/interop.html 38. http://www.ffii.org.uk/program_claims.html 39. http://www.dti.gov.uk/ministers/ministers/timms.html 40. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/ippd/issues/softpat.htm 41. http://aktiv.ffii.org/?l=en 42. http://petition.eurolinux.org/index_html?LANG=en 43. http://www.ffii.org.uk/index.html _______________________________________________ Fsfe-uk mailing list Fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-uk -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:39:19 +0100 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-10-22 12:00:15 +0100 From: Nick Hill <nick(a)nickhill.co.uk> Subject: RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. I have just had news that RMS is suffering a broken arm in a Finnish hospital. His trip to the UK is in the balance. In order to keep people up to date about the current status of RMS' trip to the UK and whether the speeches will go ahead/ in what form, I have put up a web page: http://www.nickhill.co.uk/rms-speech-status.html Please forward this to everyone involved or who might be attending a speech. I wish Richard Stallman a speedy recovery and hope to see him this weekend. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Time to give something back
by Karl Foley 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

I've been a long time reader of the ALUG list and a very, very occasional poster. Too much work in the day don't you know! Been into networking for the last 10 years and electronics before that. Mainly train support staff but also do the odd bit of consultancy. Someone, I believe it was Keith (we met up at Norfolk police HQ that day remember?) was kind enough to give me a small SCSI disk to replace one I had in a small external Sun disk case because the original has failed. Due to a clear out I now find I've got nowhere to store my Sun kit so would like to donate it to a loving home. I have had a flavour of Linux (Debian?) running on it but most of the time it's been running good old Solaris. Details of what I have are: Sparc 5 Base Station Scsi Cdrom Floppy 128MB RAM 2 Internal SCA Scsi drives Sparc 5 Base Station Scsi Cdrom Floppy (I think) 64MB RAM (I think) 1 Internal SCA Scsi drive External Disk Unit 2GB SCSI Drive (Thanks Keith!) Cable to connect it to Sparc 5 External Backup DDS2 DAT NO cable (Worked in a Netware box though!) 2 * Large Sun Monitors 19/21" Dunno - Big and heavy! 2 * Type 5c Sun Keyboards and 3 Button Mice This was all working when last powered up (a few months ago now). I have no media to hand but it's easy enough to get - I could possibly dig around at the weekend for some Solaris media. I'm based in Felixstowe but will drive a little way to drop the stuff off. Please drop me an eMail if you're interested: Karl(a)thefoleyhouse.co.uk P.S. Did I say it was all free! ;-) --- ATB, Karl.

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[Alug]IBM TV ad for Linux
by Ben Francis 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

what do people think of IBM's Linux advert? http://www-5.ibm.com/e-business/uk/linux/ -- Ben "tola" Francis

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #18 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 22 Oct '03

22 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. RMS talks; London + Sheffield; [this weekend!] (fwd) (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:11:19 +0100 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk, peterboro(a)mailman.lug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS talks; London + Sheffield; [this weekend!] (fwd) Original text by Paul Sladen <lugmaster(a)paul.sladen.org>, but edited. 2003 October 25th (Saturday) 12:00 noon. Richard Stallman will give a lecture about Software Patents in the Stoddart Building at Sheffield Hallam University. http://www.sheflug.co.uk/meeting.html 2003 October 26th (Sunday) 14:30 pm. Richard Stallman will be speaking about the dangers of Software Patents at the University of Westminster, London. Meeting held by AFFS and FFII-UK. http://www.affs.org.uk/diary -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Reminder: Norwich evening meet tonight
by Syd Hancock 21 Oct '03

21 Oct '03

Meeting tonight at the Forum coffee bar, 8.00 pm onwards, thursday 16th October. Apart from us there are usually very few people there so we should not be difficult to spot - there is usually a penguin or two on the table. It's possible that I may not be able to be there tonight - if not, hope lots of people make it and have fun. Syd

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[Alug]Blip - OK - I'm *JUST ABOUT* alive again.
by Brett Parker 21 Oct '03

21 Oct '03

Hi all, Right, first a quick apology, haven't read my Alug mail box for a while, so whilst doing it, there's probably a couple of replies that are well out of date. Sorry about that, must remember to check the list more often. Otherwise, right, I'm back, sortof, so I might actually be able to do something useful at some point... hell... I might even remember to read my e-mail every now and again ;) Cheers, Brett.

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[Alug]Alug problrms with Freeserve?
by Nick Daniels 21 Oct '03

21 Oct '03

Freeserve seem to be trashing a lot of my mail as Bulk? i.e. BBC daily email. Can anybody tell me how many Alug main email's have been sent out this week, I have received 7 since last 21/9.( i have removed all filters etc) Could somebody answer me directly in case i do not receive it!!! Regards Nick Daniels

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[Alug]Adrian Kiddle rejoining ALUG
by Adrian Kiddle 21 Oct '03

21 Oct '03

Hello ALUG, It's been about 3 years since I last took a close look at Linux. I have been very busy for some time with the installation of a new I.T. system at work (Windows based), but have now reached a point where the pressure is starting to ease off a bit, and I have some time available for looking at other things again. In the meantime I understand there has been a lot of progress with Linux, and the way that Microsoft has been going has made me even less of a fan of theirs than I was before. I have recently installed Mandrake 9.0, and yesterday I was wondering whether I could get any remote desktop client software for Linux to access Terminal Services on our Windows 2000 server. This started off a train of thought, and prompted me to re-subscribe to the ALUG list. Best Regards Adrian Kiddle

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[Alug]Fax Server?
by nickheppleston＠gmx.co.uk 21 Oct '03

21 Oct '03

I'm looking for suggestions for a fax server. At my last compay, we used RightFax - a Win NT4 application - that allowed users to 'print' to a fax spooler which would then be sent via a dial-up modem. Is there anything similar out there in the open-source world? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk | 07989 581766 +++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More! +++ Getestet von Stiftung Warentest: GMX FreeMail (GUT), GMX ProMail (GUT) (Heft 9/03 - 23 e-mail-Tarife: 6 gut, 12 befriedigend, 5 ausreichend) Jetzt selbst kostenlos testen: http://www.gmx.net

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 20 Oct '03

20 Oct '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Shockwave for Linux: All you have to do is ask
by Keith Watson 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/10/15/215232 Keith ____________ The best use of your mind is to distrust it. François Fénelon

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[Alug]Linux Tutorials
by Keith Watson 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

IBM Developerworks - Education and events - Tutorials <http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/views/opensource/tutorials.jsp> Regards, Keith

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[Alug]Alug library request: does anyone have "Learning Debian/GNU Linux"?
by Kirsten Naylor 14 Oct '03

14 Oct '03

Hi all We are trying to discover what has happened to an Alug library book "Learning Debian/GNU Linux" published by O'Reilly. It used to belong to Adam but he donated it to the library, and now he has not seen it in a very long time. It will be very out of date now but we would just like to know where it has got to :) Thanks /Kirsten

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[Alug]Using Apt-Zip
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Been playing around with Apt-Zip (there's a man page online at <http://debian.ipv6.fhtw-berlin.de/ger/howto/apt-zip.html>) and finding it very useful. I had to hack the output around so that I caould use FTP in batch mode via windows 2000 but that wasn't too hard (it might be a nice option to put in the apt-zip-list script). And then I neaded to hack the output again to process the .deb files (couldn't get apt-zip-inst to work on my system), but again that was fairly straightforward. I'll do a more detailed write-up if anyone's interested in the details. I must admit that now I've been through the process a couple of times it'd probably be just a quick to drive the whole thing directly from the cmmand line with apt-get and a couple of gawk or perl scripts. But I have a question for the Debian gurus out there :o) When I run Synaptic it lists over 80 packages as candidates for upgrade but when I run apt-get in simulate mode to list the package details it only includes 5. It says the others have been 'held back'. Now IIRC this is because upgrading these would involve installing or removing othe packages. Is this correct? If so, is there any way I can override this so the package is included in the list of packages to be upgraded (plus any dependancies). This is so I can use apt-get-zip to download then elsewhere and then do the upgrade offline.

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[Alug]Reminder: Norwich evening meeting this week.
by Syd Hancock 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Postponed Norwich monthly evening social meet this thursday 16th October, 8pm onwards at the Forum coffee bar. See website Meetings page for more info or email. Syd

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #17 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Norwich Thu 16 Oct (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:57:02 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Norwich Thu 16 Oct [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.14: Norwich: The Forum bar 16 October 2003 Plan for the meeting Roughly, as follows: We will meet up from 8pm onwards for an informal evening get-together for anyone interested in GNU/Linux. This meeting is a week later than the regular date of 'second thursday' because of a clash with Linux Expo. How to get there For directions, please see [3]the venue information page. Use [4]the meeting transport page if you want to share your journey. People at the meeting If you will be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. NB: This venue is not suitable for anything more than portable equipment (laptops, palmtops, etc). As always, we strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [5]use the mailing list. [6]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [7]Join ALUG 2. [8]FAQ 3. [9]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [10]Peterborough 2. [11]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [12]PHP4Hosting 2. [13]Black Cat Networks 3. [14]Martyn Drake 4. [15]Turo Technology LLP 5. [16]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [17]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/forum.html 4. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?MeetingTransport 5. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 6. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/ 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 10. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 11. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 12. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 13. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 14. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 15. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 16. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 17. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 13 Oct '03

13 Oct '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Development Web Server Recommendation?
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 11 Oct '03

11 Oct '03

I'm about to set up a web server on my home system so I can do some server side web development without having to be connected to the internet (I'm a poor dial-up only user ;o) ). Its a Debian Woody system. Haven't decided on what server side tools to use yet, initially it will be very basic. Apache looks good but is it overkill in this situation? Recommendations on suitable web server software please? Keith

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[Alug]Teletext
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 11 Oct '03

11 Oct '03

Anyone know anything about teletext systems? Have a friend who runs a small hotel/boarding house in the west country. He has a TV in each room the can display teletext pages and they run off a common aerial feed (analogue not digital). We were kicking around the idea of him setting up his own set of teletext pages and feeding in to this set up. I've done a quick Google but it's either people trying to sell teletext services or hardware. Can't seem to find much basic info. Anyone know of some good reference sites? Anyone know what sort of software/hardware would be required (Linux based if possible)? Keith

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[Alug]Mandrake installation
by Kendall, Rob 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

Hi all, firstly, thanks to Keith Watson for supplying me with the mandrake cds. secondly....aaaargh!!! first install went pretty smoothly....put gnome on as GUI...went into it, all seemed ok. display resolution was set to 800x600, tried to find where to change it, but couldn't. then the gui crashed....rebooted machine, mandrake loaded back up, then halted saying that xfree86 not installed on system. wiped HDD, reinstalled mandrake....everything went ok up to 1 min from end of install, got error 'error on load of module xfree86, do you want to continue' have tried with both a yes, and no, xfree will not load, no matter what i do!!! everything else seem to load, just not xfree.....mandrake runs the command line seemingly ok. can i put xfree on separately, and if so how? much appreciated rob kendall ******************************************************************************************** " This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Cap Gemini Ernst & Young Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message ". ********************************************************************************************

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Re: [Alug]Postfix To Hotmail Problems
by Matt Parker 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

On Sat, 2003-09-27 at 09:48, Charles Blundell wrote: > on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 11:35:02PM +0100, Matt Parker wrote: > > I got all the way through, but only on mx4.hotmail.com. No joy on mx1. > > Is there anyway I can force postfix to use mx4 or is it just pot-luck > > which server I get? > > make sure you have: > > transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport > > in /etc/postfix/main.cf > then add to /etc/postfix/transport: > > hotmail.com smtp:[mx4.hotmail.com] > > then run: > # postmap /etc/postfix/transport > # postfix check > # postfix reload > > (though you would be better off if you could rely on the mx records > for hotmail.com...) > > fwiw, mx1.hotmail.com times out on connect: postfix should be trying > other mx's. but i see that hotmail lists them all at the same > preference. odd. > That worked to connect to mx4 but unfortunately I'm still getting the same message from hotmail:- Sep 27 11:35:17 ben postfix/smtp[16249]: 065813B4E0: to=<cowboy_bob500(a)hotmail.com>, relay=mx4.hotmail.com[65.54.254.151], delay=41, status=deferred (lost connection with mx4.hotmail.com[65.54.254.151] while sending MAIL FROM) Don't know why it works manually via telnet but postfix gets cut off. Grrr. Damn Microsoft... Thanks for the help, Matt

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[Alug]CD Players
by Nick Daniels 10 Oct '03

10 Oct '03

Hi Has anybody had any trouble with the Cdplayers on Suse 8.2, Two computers, boards Jetway 830ch, Gigabyte GA7A, both Xp1800 Xmms O. K on MP3s, Line in , Mic in, O.K. Start music plays and Kmix adjusted. C.D. is shown as playing but no sound output Regards Nick

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[Alug]O'Reilly Book Reviews
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 07 Oct '03

07 Oct '03

Are there any guidelines for the format of book reviews? and, if not, would some be helpful? A quick Google throws up loads of sites, even an O'Reilly one <http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>. Once we've written a review what's the next step? Keith

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Re: [Alug]automount with NFS
by Steve Fosdick 06 Oct '03

06 Oct '03

On 2003.10.06 23:13, Steve Fosdick wrote: On 2003.10.06 22:30, MJ Ray wrote: > One tip: be very careful with NFS mount options. If a server hangs > on you, then you can't just kill the thing and restart like you can > with the userland amd. You could lose the whole autofs system for > the duration unless you have timeouts and interruptable options. Any > process trying to touch it will block hard, leading to amusingly high > load averages (I think around 120 was my highest before fixing > it...). Futhermore if you enable use the intr option so any blocked processes can be killed, then killing one of them can cause a kernel oops on the client. Specifically, imagine you have a process that has a file open but has removed the directory entry for that file. The normal way unix handles this is that the file will continue to exist anonymously until the last process closed it whereupon the file is deleted and the space recovered. On NFS, when the last directory entry to an open file is deleted the file actually gets renamed to a hidden filename. So, you have this process running and it's holding the file open but the NFS server has gone away and you want to unmount the filesystem so you kill the process at which point the kernel panics because it can't delete the hidden file on the NFS server.

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[Alug]automount with NFS
by Craig 06 Oct '03

06 Oct '03

Anyone successfully managed to get this working? I cannot really make sense of some online documents (quite surprised at that). Quick guide anyone? C -- - Craig - http://www.wizball.co.uk "Simplicity, the best way to approach life"

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Re: [Alug]ALUG meeting in Norwich on Sunday
by Tristan Scott 06 Oct '03

06 Oct '03

Syd Hancock wrote: > Hi tristan > > >>ill check out how i book a room sometime, an let you know. > > > That would be great. If you need advice, several people on the list > were at UEA and know the ropes. I checked. I cannot book a room in january until november or possible even december. they havent even got a calendar for Jan yet! > > HTH > Syd > > -- Tristan Scott Engineer 0800 computer Services Wenceslas House (Opp. Boundary pub) 355 Aylsham Road Norwich NR3 2RX Tel: 0800 0185237 Tel: 01603 442233 Fax: 01603 404410

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[Alug]Reminder: Norwich Meeting NOT this week
by Syd Hancock 06 Oct '03

06 Oct '03

Reminder that the October Norwich evening meet has been postponed for a week. Now takes place on thursday 15th October, 8pm The Forum coffee bar. Syd

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[Alug]Laptop thermal zones and pcmcia - forked from meetings thread
by Tristan Scott 06 Oct '03

06 Oct '03

this was in the meetings thread... > > >>maybe you can help me with my laptop. >>damn thermal zone isnt recognised in 2.6.0, so i can only turn >>the fan on flat out, or off (and overheat) btw, in 2.4.* you cant even turn the fan on - overheats in a few minutes. >> >>theres a dsdt patch for 2.4.18 which fixes it, but i cant work >>out how to apply it to the 2.6.0 kernel. >> >>it doesnt seem to use the same data structure? >>?:( <edit> Syd Hancock: > > Sorry, I have no idea at all, other than the obvious comment that > 2.4 and 2,6 kernels are very different. A message to the list may > get you some useful feedback as several people are testing versions > of 2.6 > > I have seen on the Thinkpad list that there are some builds > specifically for laptops (may be Thinkpad only?) which may help as > this may be an ACPI problem. Google for Andrew Morton's patches > e.g. 2.6.0-test6-mm1 (the mm suffix indicates that it is an Andrew > Morton patch). running 2.6.0-test6-mm. dosent help. got a new problem: my bootiful new cisco 352 802.11b pcmcia card will send....but not receive. same card works a different laptop. i can talk to the card, get model number, mac address etc etc but although it requests a dhcp lease, it ignores the response... if i manually assign, it will ping itself but merely drops the packets sent anywhere else. the hub reports it present (i turned off its mac address and it then logged warnings about it) - and YES i did turn it back on. -- Tristan Scott Engineer 0800 computer Services Wenceslas House (Opp. Boundary pub) 355 Aylsham Road Norwich NR3 2RX Tel: 0800 0185237 Tel: 01603 442233 Fax: 01603 404410

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[Alug]Call For Help: bestmeat and refs web pages
by MJ Ray 06 Oct '03

06 Oct '03

Hi all, Alexis Lee has bowed out of editing the web site, so can you take over one of the two following pages that Alexis used to edit? http://www.alug.org.uk/articles/2001a/bestmeat.html - Suggesting "best of breed" applications, maybe should be updated to mention recent releases? http://www.alug.org.uk/articles/2001a/refs.html - Book list, still edited by Jenny, but I'm sure help/suggestions would be appreciated. If you can edit one of these, please send a short email to the list, then download the page, edit it and email the edited copy back to me. Thanks to Alexis for work in the past, including general site editing as well as these pages. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 06 Oct '03

06 Oct '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Microsoft foot-in-mouth again?
by Graham Trott 05 Oct '03

05 Oct '03

Just to get that warm feeling of superiority... "Microsoft has banned the cover-mounting of its software on magazines, and is advising users to go to its own web sites for updates instead. And apparently, it's all Sun's fault." http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33021.html -- GT

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[Alug]RE: +AFs-Alug+AF0-Bourne Grammar Open Day
by Jenny Hopkins 03 Oct '03

03 Oct '03

Ben Francis wrote: > no, I forgot. It didn't seem like anyone was interested either :P > > The open evening runs from 7:00pm - 9:00pm, Bourne Grammar > School, South > Road, Bourne, Lincolnshire. All welcome. > Ben, I would have been thoroughly interested in going if I had the time - little enough spare time being a full time working mum as it is - don't think we're not interested, though, I think it's a fantastic project and would have loved to come and see how it is going. Was there much interest from visitors? Jen

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Re: [Alug]Bourne Grammar Open Day
by Ben Francis 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

MJ Ray wrote: > On 2003-09-16 21:00:55 +0100 Ben Francis <ben(a)franci5.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > >> Confirmation of date and a more specific time to follow. > > > Did we get that? > no, I forgot. It didn't seem like anyone was interested either :P The open evening runs from 7:00pm - 9:00pm, Bourne Grammar School, South Road, Bourne, Lincolnshire. All welcome.

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[Alug]I am back
by Wayne Stallwood 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

After an impromptu house move, a computer damaged in transit and a change of ISP's My old mail address is now defunct, If any of you have that in your records please update accordingly., The Crimson Techology address is not affected. Kind Regards Wayne PS. Have I missed anything ?

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[Alug]Useful Info. Site
by Keith Watson 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

Has anyone here ever looked at a US based Linux support site called Linux Orbit <http://www.linuxorbit.com/> ? It has a useful list of 'HOWTOs', 'Mini-HOWTOs' and 'Quick Tips' (especially those related to Debian ;o) ) One in particular I mentioned at the meeting on Sunday is "GRUB in Debian HOWTO" <http://www.linuxorbit.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&r… iewarticle&artid=539&page=1> But be warned it's the sort of placed you go to to look at something specific and then spend hours checking out all sorts of goodies. Regards, Keith ____________ AIR, n. A nutritious substance supplied by a bountiful Providence for the fattening of the poor. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

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[Alug]Meeting report - Norwich Sept 28th 2003
by Syd Hancock 30 Sep '03

30 Sep '03

The meeting in Norwich on sunday at the Billy Bluelight had a good turnout - 13 people in all - too many to list unless people insist! See photos on the page referenced below. I feel credit for the turnout is very much due to Mark for being willing to face the massed ALUG ranks and present a talk - thank you, Mark. Having a specific focus gives a different flavour to the meeting and is something I hope we can develop further next year. Mark's talk on the boot process was well-prepared and well-presented. It was accessible and informative for novices like myself while offering plenty of scope for debate, contributions and heckling from the floor :-) Lecture notes and summary are on the website here: http://www.alug.org.uk/articles/2003/boothalt.html (as posted earlier by MJR - included here for furure reference) Later there was also some discussion of the library and general meeting planning. Sadly Kirsten was not able to bring any cakes this time but otherwise everything went very well. Syd

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[Alug]new addition to Alug library Linuxuser & developer magzine
by abower＠thebowery.co.uk 30 Sep '03

30 Sep '03

Hi all, I just got home to discover 3 copies of Linuxuser and developer magazine (technical edition with coverdisc) sitting on my doorstep to be handed around the group (many thanks to LinuxUser http://www.linuxuser.co.uk ). It has a complete set of Redhat 9 on the coverdisc, articles include "how linux is revolutionising movie production" (shame they didn't feature the London production companies though) "can AMDs Opteron cope with Linux" "Getting a small business working online" etc. etc. Anyhow if you want one of these you can either come and pick it up from me in Cambridge (or arrange some kind of sneaker net to get them to you) or I will be at the next Norwich evening meeting (that is if the meeting is rescheduled for the 16th of October as I will be in London on the 9th for LinuxExpo. It would be good if we could get people who take copies to pass them on to other people who want them also in their local area so any alternative ideas on distributions would be welcome. Thanks Adam -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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[Alug]red hat installation help
by Kendall, Rob 30 Sep '03

30 Sep '03

Hi al, total Linux newbie.....am trying to install RH9, and am not getting very far. I have followed some instructions, but so far nothing is helping..... basically the system is.... compaq proliant dual PII 450 mhz(each cpu) 512mb ram on board graphics (1 meg....its a server!) (various scsi 120 gb hdds (x5)) winxp win2kserver spare partition for RH9 has compaq monitor, keyboard and mouse. when i put the cd1 in, the install starts. if i just hit enter, the anaconda installer starts, does hardware probing, gets past the monitor and hangs. If i do 'linux noprobe'...i select the correct scsi driver for hdds, then the anaconda installer starts, does hardware probing, and hangs! Someone has told me that some monitor types can hang the instal, but i know that the same setup as mine has had RH9 installed on it fine. I dont know what else to do....someone has suggested installing textual, but i dont know if im advanced enough to try! any other suggestions? thanks in advance Rob ******************************************************************************************** " This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Cap Gemini Ernst & Young Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message ". ********************************************************************************************

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[Alug]Re; Cathedral and Bazaar
by John Seago 30 Sep '03

30 Sep '03

I have this, however due to incapacity have not been to any meetings since, can you give me an address to get it to please? -- John Seago

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[Alug]Mandrake 9.0 and USB (not) printing - anyone?
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 29 Sep '03

29 Sep '03

My sister-in-law is using Mandrake 9.0 and has just bought an Epson Stylus C44 which I have duly installed using the Mandrake Control Centre (or whatever they call it). It detected it correctly and it shows up in the KDE Control Centre correctly. It will not, however, print. No error messages in the CUPS logs and in the CUPS Management thingy the job just sits there in the queue although it lists the Epson C44 as idle and waiting for jobs. I even tried cat file.txt > /dev/usb/lp0 which also produced nothing. Any ideas, anyone, please! Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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[Alug]Another spare (and free) magazine
by Syd Hancock 29 Sep '03

29 Sep '03

I completely forgot to bring this to the meeting yesterday but I have a spare copy of the current Linux Format (LXF45 October 2003) with cover CDs. Email me off list if you want it - I'm happy to pay the small postage costs. Syd

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[Alug]Basic Home Hardware Spec.
by Keith Watson 29 Sep '03

29 Sep '03

Saw a letter in a magazine a while back asking what hardware people would get if they were setting up a budget home PC system for Windows and I wondered about the spec for a similar system for a GNU/Linux based system. So if you were setting up a budget GNU/Linux system consisting of; a 15" colour monitor, mouse, keyboard, colour printer, CD Writer, sound card & speakers, modem, what type of case, what motherboard, what processor, how much RAM, size and type of HD. What would you go for and where would you source the kit (as this is a budget system 2nd hand stuff can be considered e.g. eBay). As this is a budget system you need to think about the trade off between cost, performance, reliability, maintenance, functionality, etc. Keith ____________ MARRIAGE, n. The state or condition of a community consisting of a master, a mistress and two slaves, making in all, two. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 23/09/2003

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[Alug]High End System Spec.
by Keith Watson 29 Sep '03

29 Sep '03

Following on from my last post, imagine you suddenly had unlimited cash to spend on PC kit, what would be your hardware spec for a dream GNU/Linux system for use at home. How many boxen? What would each one do? Where would you source the kit? Keith ____________ Old CM people never die, they just get archived and can be reproduced at any time. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 23/09/2003

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[Alug]Magnatune, the open music record label
by Ben Francis 29 Sep '03

29 Sep '03

OK, so it's a little off topic, but I've just spotted this http://www.magnatune.com. Has anyone else heard of this site or the "Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike" license their music is released under? I'd be really interested to know how some of the GPL gurus on this list think it compares to the GNU General Public License for software. Are music and software comparable in terms of freedom and distribution? Are there any obvious flaws in what they're trying to do? I'd really like to give support to this label, I may even submit some of my own music if I get a decent enough recording. One thing I'm not clear on is what happens when the music you pay to download from this site leaks onto P2P networks... surely 99% of people will dowload the music for free from Kazaa, Gnutella etc. and 1% will pay to download? Is it down to the listener whether or not they give any money and if so can the site survive on this basis? The following is from the web site: We're a record label. But we're not evil. We call it "try before you buy." It's the shareware model applied to music. Listen to hundreds of MP3'd albums from our artists. Or try our genre-based radio stations. If you like what you hear, buy our music online for as little as $5 an album or license our music for commercial use. Artists get a full 50% of the purchase price. And unlike most record labels, our artists keep their rights to their music. Founded by musicians, for musicians. No major label connections. We are not evil. What is "Open Music" ? Open Music is music that is shareable, available in "source code" form, allows derivative works and is free of cost for non-commercial use. It is the concept of "open source" computer software applied to music. All our music is available under the "Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike " license from Creative Commons to promote these goals. -- Ben "tola" Francis P.S. sorry if that was all too off topic for this list

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 29 Sep '03

29 Sep '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Is anyone actually going to the meeting tomorrow?
by Syd Hancock 28 Sep '03

28 Sep '03

Is anyone intending to go to the meting tomorrow afternoon in Norwich? So far there has not been a single confirmation either to the list or by email. Perhaps i should cancel the room booking? Syd

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[Alug]Meeting pm 26-9-03
by David Crease 28 Sep '03

28 Sep '03

Syd wrote asking if anyone is going to this afternoon's meeting. I intend to be there, my second meeting after a period of about 3 years! I was under the impression from the mailings that it was fairly well susported. I hope to see lots of people there. David Crease

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[Alug]Postfix To Hotmail Problems
by Matt Parker 27 Sep '03

27 Sep '03

Hi all, Curious problem I've got here. Hotmail disconnects me from their mail server whenever I try an send an e-mail from my box. Anyone seen this problem or know of a solution. I've e-mail Hotmail but I guess it'll be a cold day in hell when I receive a reply... In the "info" log I get this:- Sep 26 18:15:45 ben postfix/smtpd[11085]: connect from fred.mpcontracting.co.uk[192.168.1.100] Sep 26 18:15:46 ben postfix/smtpd[11085]: 01CF23B4DE: client=fred.mpcontracting.co.uk[192.168.1.100] Sep 26 18:15:46 ben postfix/cleanup[11086]: 01CF23B4DE: message-id=<1064596424.2590.0.camel(a)fred.mpcontracting.co.uk> Sep 26 18:15:46 ben postfix/smtpd[11085]: disconnect from fred.mpcontracting.co.uk[192.168.1.100] Sep 26 18:15:46 ben postfix/nqmgr[2044]: 01CF23B4DE: from=<matt(a)mpcontracting.co.uk>, size=565, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Sep 26 18:16:27 ben postfix/smtp[11088]: 01CF23B4DE: to=<cowboy_bob500(a)hotmail.com>, relay=mx1.hotmail.com[65.54.252.99], delay=41, status=deferred (lost connection with mx1.hotmail.com[65.54.252.99] while sending MAIL FROM) Nothing in "errors" or "warnings". As you can see from the post to the list, my mail server is working just fine for everything else. Thanks, Matt

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[Alug]ALUG meeting in Norwich on sunday
by Syd Hancock 26 Sep '03

26 Sep '03

ALUG SUNDAY MEETING Next meeting in Norwich this coming weekend on sunday 28th September. 2pm onwards in the Nelson Room at The Billy Blue Light pub, Hall Road, Norwich. The Billy is at the city end of Hall road and is not far from the bus station, just off the inner ring road. I have not put detailed directions on the website but IMNSHO anyone with a bit of gumption should not have too much difficulty using a streetfinder map of Norwich (or online equivalent)! Bring extension leads etc if power is required as I don't yet know what sockets etc are available. Room hire is £15 so please bring a bit of spare change towards the costs. OTHER PLANNED MEETINGS Next Norwich sunday meeting is currently planned for the end of January 2004 - unless anyone fancies a get-together before xmas, perhaps in a pub or for a meal (or both combined). I'm just dropping this idea in for people to think about. Norwich monthly meetings continue on the second thursday of the month at the Forum coffee bar, 8pm. Regards Syd

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[Alug]Silly Question
by Tarquin Mills 24 Sep '03

24 Sep '03

Hi, I want to mount a DVD video in Linux but the disc is not recognised as UDF or ISO format. A DVD-ROM from PC Format mounts in ISO format but the Hitch Hiker DVD will not mount on the video side or the ROM side. Thanks in advance. -- Tarquin Mills Reboot Movement (An Anti-Wintel Campaign) http://www.planet14.sonow4u.co.uk/comp/reboot/

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[Alug]Apropos of absolutely nothing!
by Keith Watson 24 Sep '03

24 Sep '03

http://www.jotajota.org/ficheros/answer%5b1%5d.gif Regards, Keith ____________ 'If there is a better solution...find it.' - Thomas Edison --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #16 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 24 Sep '03

24 Sep '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Call for Nominations for the 2004 FSF Award for the Advancement of Free Software (fwd) (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:27:25 +0100 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org, lugmaster(a)lug.org.uk, announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: My own Subject: [Alug Announce]Call for Nominations for the 2004 FSF Award for the Advancement of Free Software (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-09-21 23:34:20 +0100 From: Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> Subject: Call for Nominations for the 2004 FSF Award for the Advancement of Free Software [Please redistribute widely where appropriate] The GNU project is asking for nominations for the 2003 Free Software Award. We want to give this award to a person who has made a great contribution to the progress and development of free software (free as in freedom; see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html for the definition), through activities that accord with the spirit of free software. Any kind of activity could be eligible--writing software, writing documentation, publishing CDs, even journalism--but whatever the activity, we want to recognize long-term central contributions to the development of the world of free software. "Accord with the spirit" means, for example, that software, manuals or collections of them (on tape or CD) must be entirely Free. (Once again, that's free as in freedom; see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.) Work done commercially is eligible, but we want to give awards to individuals, not companies. People such as Miguel de Icaza, Donald Knuth, Larry Lessig, Brian Paul, Guido van Rossum, Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds, and Larry Wall who have already received this or other awards for their contributions, are not eligible for the Award for the Advancement of Free Software. Please send your nominations to award-nominations(a)gnu.org on or before Friday 31 October 2003. Please submit nominations in the following format: * Put the name of the person you are nominating in the email message subject line. * Please include, in the body of your message, an explanation (40 lines or less) of the work the person has done and why you think it is especially important to software freedom. Please state, in the body of your message, where to find the materials (e.g., software, manuals, or writing) which your nomination is based on. Information about the previous awards can be found in http://www.gnu.org/award/. _______________________________________________ GNU Announcement mailing list <info-gnu(a)gnu.org> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnu -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Confusing MSEC E-mails
by Matt Parker 23 Sep '03

23 Sep '03

Hi All, I'm running Mandrake 9.0 on my web server/e-mail server/firewall and MSEC is sending me reports every night telling me what's going on. The thing I find confusing is that I keep getting reports like this:- Security Warning: These files belonging to packages have changed of status on the system : - No longer modified : /usr/include/c++/3.2/bits/istream.tcc The thing is, this file has never been modified and it hasn't been modified back. What does it mean by "no longer modified"? It'll tell me one night that a file has been modified and then the next night it'll tell me that it is no longer modified. With all this "crying wolf" how do I, as a sysadmin, tell when something has really been modified? Matt

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[Alug]networking problems
by Ben Francis 23 Sep '03

23 Sep '03

I've got an unusual network problem with some Linux boxes at school. Mozilla Browser can view web pages fine via the proxy on port 80 and ftp works OK. I can ping the router but if I try pinging any web sites it just times out - it does seem to find the IP of the web site I'm pinging, but no data pongs back. So I can use google in a web browser, but ping google.co.uk just times out - I didn't know that was possible! I'm also having trouble allocating static IPs to the boxes. I've made "reservations" on the Windows NT DHCP server of the IP addresses I want in the range 10.25.20.101 - 10.25.20.108 but I'm having trouble getting /etc/network/interfaces set up correctly to connect to the network using them. This is the current contents of /etc/network/interfaces: =================================== auto lo iface lo inet loopback auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 10.25.20.101 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 10.25.16.1 #network 10.25.16.0 #broadcast 10.25.16.255 =================================== After I make changes I do ifdown eth0 and then ifup eth0, which usually results in a "network unreachable" message. Is there a way of being able to address a computer by its name as opposed to it's IP if a dynamic IP is being used, allocated by the DHCP server? I'd like to be able to do ssh user@hostname instead of ssh user(a)000.000.000.000 for example which is my reason for wanting static IPs in the first place. One other simple question, how can I find out the IP of the computer I'm working on? I thought it was hostname -i but this just returns 127.0.0.1 instead of the computer's IP on the network. One other unrelated problem. I've been having trouble changing the keyboard language setting for X from the default US to UK. I've changed the relevent values in /etc/X11/XF86Config and /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 and restarted X, but for some reason it keeps reverting to US. The KDE keyboard setting is fine, but in fluxbox it uses a US layout. The funny thing is I've been able to change the language on my home PC using fluxbox, perhaps I'm missing something obvious. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm not very experienced with any of these problems! -- Ben "tola" Francis http://www.bourne-grammar.lincs.sch.uk/bgstux

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[Alug]Linux powered DVD player
by Jonathan McDowell 22 Sep '03

22 Sep '03

I mentioned this at the Forum on Thursday and people asked for more info. The new crop of EM8500 DVD players (the ones that are fairly cheap and support DivX) seem to be powered by Linux. You can get these for aruond £120, for example at: http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/acatalog/Hardware_Section__.html (the LiteOn LVD-2001 about half way down). LiteOn's page for the player: http://www.liteonit.com/DC/english/lvd_2001.htm Sigma's development kit is Linux based: http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/em8500.htm Some info about other EM8500 players: http://www.duke.edu/~java32/bravo/bravohacking.html If I didn't have a DVD player already I think I'd be buying one of these to play with. J. -- I'm an a**h**e, I'm an a**h**e, | .''`. Debian GNU/Linux Developer I'm a real f**king a**h**e. | : :' : Happy to accept PGP signed | `. `' or encrypted mail - RSA + | `- DSA keys on the keyservers.

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 22 Sep '03

22 Sep '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Kernels.
by Craig 19 Sep '03

19 Sep '03

Just thought of something to discuss on a friday ;) What kernels are you running at work/home? And what patches did you apply to it? At work, I'm running Con Kolivas patchset to 2.4 (http://members.optusnet.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/ ) as well on my mini itx at home. I was running 2.5/6 for a while with andrew morton's patchset and felt that I was being too far on the bleedin' edge ;) C

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[Alug]USB Hard Drives
by Richard Lewis (MUS) 19 Sep '03

19 Sep '03

Dear ALUG, I am looking to buying a USB hard drive and wondering if anyone knows anything about using them with Linux. Presumably I would have to set up a new block device connected to one of the USB ports. I could then mount it at somewhere like /mnt/usbhd. The ones I've looked at say that you have to write your own partition table and format the partitions yourself; how would I do this? (The details of the one I'm thinking of are here: http://www.dabs.com/products/prod-info3-info.asp?&m=y&quicklinx=2BDV.) Cheers in advance. Richard

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[Alug]A review: GoboLinux 007alpha
by MJ Ray 19 Sep '03

19 Sep '03

As some of you know, my desktop machine was running Gentoo for a while. It was an island in a see of Debian. However, a few things prompted me to move away: first, I found it a pain to write ebuilds; second, I hate having to jump through hoops to block "free for non-commercial use" software from being installed automatically; third, I found it was taking more and more time to update the system. There are things that Debian could learn, like firing up a merge tool when there's a new version of an edited config file, but apart from being source-compiled, it was similar to Debian but lacking the licence division. Gentoo's official line seems to be that their ebuilds are free software: they just happen to download things that aren't. Grrr. But this isn't a review of Gentoo. It's a review of GoboLinux. You can find their homepage at http://www.gobolinux.org/ but the big idea is to restructure the filesystem into /Depot (shared space), /Files (add-ons that don't belong to a particular program), /Programs (one subdir per program like the old /opt idea), /System (replacement for /etc, /usr and /var) and /Users (replacement for /home). Why do this? Well, they take the line that all package managers are doing it the hard way, throwing everything in together and trying to keep track of it. The depot or stow idea is basically right, but tries to accommodate throwing everything in together as well. Not everything in a package needs to be linked into a common area and there are some tricky question: do you tell a program it's going to run under /usr or /usr/stow/program? Gobo was first developed as a take on the stow idea for use in $HOME on a system that the developers didn't have root access to. Soon, an entire system was built up around the idea and has been put onto CD. Packages are basically a tarball of a subdirectory in /Programs and you install them with InstallPackage packagefile.tar.bz2, which will go off and try to satisfy declared dependencies. Building from source is normally quite easy too, using the sandboxing tool CompileProgram to build it all from a source tarball. Generally the developers have tried to avoid customising the sources too much, so if they didn't enable an option that you need, recompiling from plain sources with CompileProgram should work without trouble. Both these tools make the symlinks from /Programs/Whatever/Current/bin/* to /System/Links/Executables and so on, so the shell and other tools can find them. When you're sick of a program, you just rm -r /Programs/Whatever and run FixBrokenLinks. If you want to change the default version of a package, you change where the /Programs/Whatever/Current symlink points and rerun SymlinkProgram. It works surprisingly well. I installed from a CD image of 007alpha, which had some amusing bugs which should be squashed before 007 final ("Bond") is released. Although InstallPackage can download packages to fulfil dependencies, one that was missing from the base install was wget, which is used for the downloading. Development cycle is short enough at the moment that you can use a package from 006 ("Trevelyan") most of the time and sometimes even from 005 ("Thomas"). The developers are now getting to grips with things like that and supporting a variety of shells instead of just their favourite zsh. It's an interesting distribution and if they can solve the normal growing pains of a distribution, such as security, distributed development and trickier packages, it could be the base for a good multipurpose distribution in a year or so. Questions? Comments? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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[Alug]Re: script help request
by Jenny Hopkins 18 Sep '03

18 Sep '03

On Thursday 18 September 2003 2:32 pm, MJ Ray wrote: > > I'm looping through a list of words in a file, passed in as > > variables, and > > performing an action on it, but first I need to strip the ".ipk" > > from the > > word. > > That's a different problem to the one you asked. If the word is > stored in the variable $word, then ${word/%.ipk/} will contain what > you need in bash. If you're using another shell, let me know. That's exactly what I was after - many thanks. I later realised the filename also had to have a version number stripped from it, but the above syntax took care of that as well, with a small amount of twiddling. Jen

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[Alug]Adrian Kiddle rejoining ALUG
by Dan Beimborn 18 Sep '03

18 Sep '03

Adrian, check out rdesktop: http://sourceforge.net/projects/rdesktop/ DB

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[Alug]Trouble with foreign character input
by MJ Ray 17 Sep '03

17 Sep '03

I want to type characters like c-cedilla (French) and c-circumflex (Slavic) easily. I cannot get the compose key or the dead_circumflex character in xmodmap to work for anything other than combining a circumflex with a space to produce ^. Redefining keys with xmodmap, eg: keycode 54 = c C ccircumflex Ccircumflex doesn't work either (output of xmodmap -pm gives: shift Shift_L (0x32), Shift_R (0x3e) lock Caps_Lock (0x42) control Control_L (0x25), Control_R (0x6d) mod1 Alt_L (0x40) mod2 Num_Lock (0x4d) mod3 mod4 Super_L (0x73), Super_R (0x74) mod5 ISO_Level3_Shift (0x71) in case I've got a modifier wrong.) That used to work with XFree86 3.3.1, using AltGr-c to give c-circumflex. Indeed, it's the same xmodmap file and the same pc105 gb keyboard settings in the config file (but a different place), but I am now using XFree86 version 4.3.0. If someone knows what is wrong, please tell me. If I can give more helpful info, please tell me what you want. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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