- main - earth.li

Re: [ALUG] Microsoft and schools
by Stuart Hammond 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

I think the idea of the government using OSS (eg Linux OS) on school desktop computers is slightly narrow sighted for education is there to allow people to go forth and gain employment and as most workplaces don't use Linux as the OS for there desktop machines it would not really be following that ethos. How ever as some one who has just started to use Linux i am gradually finding windows terrible. i use Mozilla instead of Internet Explorer in Windows as it dose not crash when ever i get a popup ad also the GUI of Linux is so much nicer than Windows exspecaly with the built in multiple desktops and the ability to have more than one taskbar, however i think what Linux needs is easier software installation (tarballs etc. scare me) and better device/games support and then it would really be truly superior to Windows in every way (from a user point of view). What it needs to solve all of these is probably better reconition in the business arena on desktops which would at least force the government to teach people how to use it. Yours S Hammond _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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Predictions for 2004
by Graham Trott 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

The link below is to an article at silicon.com predicting winners and losers in 2004. Linux is in the first list for servers and the second for client side, partly because of the unnecessary, confusing and destructive battle between KDE and Gnome. While I don't necessarily agree completely with the article I think it has some fair points. http://www.silicon.com/management/ itdirector/0,39024673,39117578,00.htm?nl=e20040106 I'd also like to predict some more losers: 1 The public wi-fi access point. As long as prices stay where they are, that is. 2 Java as a client-side solution, given the increasing bloat with every version release. (That may well apply to .NET too, for the same reason, but I wouldn't know.) Why in hell can't Sun or IBM modularise the thing so if you don't want it all you don't have to download it (or force your customers to)? 3 Sun - already in the loser list, but for the additional reason that they don't understand end-users. Some fine ideas but seemingly targetted at a world that won't exist for another five or more years. 4 Anyone who expected broadband to be taken up by every Mom and Pop in the land. 5 Mom and Pop, who can't download the service patches from Microsoft and thus catch every virus and worm going. Nice to think Linux could gallop along on its white horse and save the day, but it's too fragmented and difficult for said Mom and Pop to set up. After all, ain't nobody else gonna do it for them. And just to show I'm not all negative, a winner: Computer users everywhere, able to use an increasing base of good-quality free software as an alternative to overpriced commercial stuff or nag'n'bitch shareware. When this trend gets far enough along, coupled with much better standards than at present and making source downloads a LOT easier to use, Linux may emerge as a viable desktop candidate for ordinary people. -- GT

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Re: [ALUG] Does anyone know lftp -c commands ?
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

I wondered why the response I sent below hadn't appeared on the list. I had sent to to Mark by mistake - sorry Mark! Here it is again: > Similar to Graham, my untested guess: lftp -e 'open -u > mylogin,mypassword mydomain ; ls' Bingo! I tried semicolons and it didn't work but I didn't think of enclosing the whole lot in single quotes. The combination of the two works. Thanks to you both. Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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Security problem - some ideas sought
by James Green 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

Hello All, Here's an interesting scenario for you security buffs out there - I've been approached to think about the issues and return with some verdicts and would appreciate some intelligent ideas I'm sure you can conjure up... Company A has its software installed on lots of customer Windows machines around the world. The software has effectively got 'root' access on the machine, and talks regularly to a central server to gain upgrades etc. If the software is tampered with, the computers could well cause disruption. [ Yes, really bad idea. Microsoft should indeed be shot for allowing it. ] The upgrades can be 'pushed' out at will to a subset of customers, or to all. The software, having full Administrator access, needs to be careful. Or, more to the point, the procedure for releasing upgrades and changes to the software needs to be highly secure. One idea that was my initial on the subject is as follows: Six 'trusted' employees, six 'secure' servers. Employees are minor shareholders in the company. For an upgrade to be pushed out, a majority of the trusted employees must submit the same upgrade package to a majority of the servers, and the servers between them must agree that the upgrade is verified as coming from the claimed sources. Combined, they should check out. If any one employee, or one machine, were to raise a black flag, the process is aborted. In the event that a bad upgrade is indeed rolled out any two employees can activate a rollback procedure (which I can't think of procedurally right now). Normally I would of course be thinking in terms of specialised identity and verificaton equipment, but Company A doesn't exactly have the resources of the CIA or NSA, so remote servers and a chain of trust is the closest they can get. PGP keys all round I suspect. A nightmare to secure, and is still open to attack, both internally and externally, however thats how I see it. I warn that I got almost three hours sleep last night due to "server issues" so if I make no sense thats probably why. Comments/suggestions on completely different ideas/etc most welcomed. I don't have experience in this field. Thanks all, James

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Does anyone know lftp -c commands ?
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 06 Jan '04

06 Jan '04

I've been struggling to get the lftp -c and -e options to work. There's no elaboration of the -c option in the man page and a search on the web produces nothing extra. Does anyone know the proper syntax? If, for example, I try: lftp -e open -u mylogin,mypassword mydomain ls All I get is: lftp: ls: no address associated with name How is one supposed to enter a series of commands on the command line? Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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dinamic library
by Vasko Tomanov 06 Jan '04

06 Jan '04

The key "feature" here is that I want to write a piece of code in Linux that will read a .conf file when it starts up, and then "load" and "link to" several libraries, all of which will export the same interface. In Windows, what you do is get hold of the name of the DLL from somewhere (e.g. the registry), call LoadLibrary() on it, then call GetprocInstance() to get the address of the various entry points. Libtool appears to be different -it just says "link to this file when you compile the project" - that's no good because I don't want the drivers to be fixed at compile time any suggestions ? Cheers Vasko Tomanov

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Names
by Tarquin Mills 06 Jan '04

06 Jan '04

I did not take part in the earlier ALUG names debate, but while reading Free as Freedom, I have decided I perfer Anglian GNU/Linux User Group to Anglia Linux User Group. "promise me to use the term GNU/Linux instead of Linux and tell all your friends to do likewise." (Quote from RMS) -- Tarquin Mills bmud (BitMap UNIX Display) Terminal

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ALUG Sunday meeting in Norwich January 25th
by Syd Hancock 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

There will be a sunday afternoon meeting in Norwich on the 25th January 2004, from 2pm at The Billy Bluelight, Hall Road. Full details of venue etc are on the ALUG website http://www.alug.org.uk Following Norwich sunday meeting planned for April 25th. Details later. Regards Syd

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Have we got a loit boys? [Voice from the Fen]
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3353911.stm Radio boost for rural broadband Rural broadband has been given a boost by the UK Government's decision to free up a key radio frequency. Just before Christmas, the Department of Trade and Industry said it would let internet service providers and community groups use the 5.8Ghz Band C spectrum. [...] The three-month trials are taking place in Ballingry in Fife, Scotland, Pwllheli in Wales, Porthleven in Cornwall and Campsie in Northern Ireland. The technology being tested sends the internet signal using radio waves, without the need for wires, similar to wi-fi technology. The signal travels from a base station to a home computer through a low-power antenna. It is similar to a satellite dish, but is smaller and diamond-shaped and fits onto the side of a house. If successful, it could be used to take broadband to rural areas which cannot get it by cable or over the phone line. The trials are part of BT's pledge to offer broadband to all of UK by 2005. =================================================================== This could be a buutiful breakthrough. That's a long way from anywhere, where Oi live, and maybe lots of you too. Any chaance we could use our comboined muscle to set up a commuunity group that could offer to join in them troials in Anglia region? What dyou think then? Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 29-Dec-03 Time: 14:49:51 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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beginners scripting question
by Syd Hancock 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

Hi all I want to do something that I am sure is very simple but I am frustrated because I am not sure where to start. Basically all I want to do is to feed all the files from a directory one by one into an application - i.e. using lame to encode wav files to mp3. Can this be done from a bash script or should I use perl or ??? Any advice or info much appreciated. Syd

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hypertec router
by Stan Fraser 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

Has anyone got the Driver CD for a Hypertec HyperRoute ISDN/10T that they would be willing to burn a copy of, my is damaged so unreadable:( would reimburse cost. Thanks Stan

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Anyone in yarmouth...
by Ricky Bruce 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

got a copy of RH, Mandrake, Suse or maybe even slackware, mind lending it to me...the library here is sh*t and has only the one linux book that has no cd's, and no cd burners. Gotta wipe Windows, AOL et al off of my dads computer before i go crazy... not withstanding any problems with winmodems i might encounter, has anyone ever managed to run AOL using wine/x or crossover? not that i like it but my dad wont bandy up the cash for broadband no matter how persistant i am. _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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Startup script - advice needed
by Nick Heppleston 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

I've written a small script that flashes my caps-lock LED when I get new mail as I run Evolution on a different desktop to my main working / browser desktop. I'm after having this script start when my system is booted and stops when the system shuts down. Apart from writing an init script, is there any other/better way to start the script? I did think of running it from the .bashrc file, but was unaware that this fires every time I open a new terminal window. Additionally, the script calls setleds, which needs to be run from the console (i.e. Ctrl+Alt+F1 etc...). Any help much appreciated. Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk

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FW: High-Availability & Reliability Conference: Bournemouth, 25-26 Feb (UKUUG)
by Alasdair G Kergon 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

UK Unix User Group LISA/Winter Conference and Tutorial: High-Availability and Reliability Bournemouth, UK, Wednesday 25th and Thursday 26th February 2004 http://www.ukuug.org/events/winter2004/ The main theme of the conference is High-Availability and Reliability, with topics including large-scale email services, High-Availability Linux, storage replication, MySQL, and choosing reliable hardware. The conference starts in the afternoon of Wednesday, 25 February and will be preceded by a half-day tutorial on High-Availability Linux clusters, and the Heartbeat cluster monitoring software. This is being given by Alan Robertson and Lars Marowsky-Bree, who will both also deliver talks in the main conference. Lars currently works as technical lead and developer for the SUSE Labs. His main areas of expertise are high-availability and cluster related topics, ranging from storage (multi-pathing, RAID, and replication) over network load balancing to cluster infrastructure service, resource management and administration. Alan, who is now based at IBM's Linux Technology Center, has been an active developer and project leader for High-Availability Linux for several years. He maintains the Linux-HA project web (www.linux-ha.org), and has been a key developer for the open source Heartbeat program. The technical talks of the conference run from the Wednesday afternoon and will finish late afternoon on the Thursday. The provisional programme includes: Matt Asay Open Source Capitalism: Innovation Business Models (Novell) for an Innovative Development Methodology David Axmark MySQL High-Availability Features (MySQL) Mark Baker and javaGMA: A lightweight implementation of Matthew Grove the Grid Monitoring Architecture (University of Portsmouth) Matthew Bloch Getting the best from your server with (Bytemark Hosting) User-Mode Linux Peter T. Breuer NetRAID (Universidad Carlos III de Madrid) Tim Chown IPv6 Deployment Status (University of Southampton) Julian Field MailScanner (University of Southampton) Tony Finch Scaling up Cambridge University's email service (University of Cambridge) Niall Mansfield Experiences with the Sobig worms and (UIT Cambridge Ltd) how we combatted them (and other Spam) Lars Marowsky-Bree High-Availability Cluster Design and (SUSE LINUX AG) Set-up Stephen Mayo Hardware for high-availability (Hewlett-Packard) Richard J. Moore Preparing Linux for the Enterprise (IBM Linux technology Centre) Philipp Reisner Storage Replication with DRBD (LINBIT Information Technologies GmbH) Alan Robertson Heartbeat (IBM Linux Technology Centre) Steve Whitehouse Cluster filesystems (ChyGwyn Ltd) The event is open to both members and non-members of the UKUUG. Bookings must be received by 18 February 2004, and a discounted early booking rate is available until 23 January 2004. A limited number of free and subsidised places is available for those who would otherwise be unable to attend. See <http://www.ukuug.org/events/winter2004/> for booking information and full details of the programme including abstracts and speaker biographies. For further information, contact: Jane Morrison UKUUG Secretariat PO Box 37 Buntingford Herts SG9 9UQ Tel: 01763 273 475 Fax: 01763 273 255 office(a)ukuug.org www.ukuug.org The UKUUG was formed to represent users of UNIX and Open systems in the UK. It uniquely caters for the needs of people in this area and is completely independent of specific hardware and software vendors. Any profits are used to further the activities of the organisation. Provisional dates for Linux 2004 conference in Leeds: 29th July - 1st August 2004

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Re: [ALUG] Anyone in yarmouth...
by Ricky Bruce 01 Jan '04

01 Jan '04

lol, sorry, came across a little over enthusiastic there:) no fear, i'll dual boot, the only reason im stuck using my dads pc is because i just got back into the country and had to leave mine behind. My dads elvis mp3 collection is safe...for now! >From: Syd Hancock <syd(a)toufol.com> >To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk >Subject: Re: [ALUG] Anyone in yarmouth... >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:06:36 +0000 > >On Wednesday 31 Dec 2003 6:56 pm, Ricky Bruce wrote: > > got a copy of RH, Mandrake, Suse or maybe even slackware, mind > > lending it to me...the library here is sh*t and has only the one > > linux book that has no cd's, and no cd burners. Gotta wipe > > Windows, AOL et al off of my dads computer before i go crazy... > >Errm, Ricky, unless you really know what you're doing, this would be >a very foolish move IMO. Slow down, take your time, maybe introduce >yourself to the list... > > > not withstanding any problems with winmodems i might encounter, > > has anyone ever managed to run AOL using wine/x or crossover? not > > that i like it but my dad wont bandy up the cash for broadband no > > matter how persistant i am. > >Like I say, you really need to know what you're doing first. You >don't want to get even more grief from your dad when his computer >won't work and you don't know how to get it going :-) > >Good luck! >Syd > > >_______________________________________________ >main(a)lists.alug.org.uk >http://www.alug.org.uk/ >http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main >Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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I see trouble ahead....
by Wayne Stallwood 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

http://news.com.com/2100-7337_3-5131787.html?tag=nefd_lede Bios maybe replaced by EFI and Microsoft are helping to develop it. Poorly written article but neverless, the thought that MS might have a hand in something like that is pretty scary. Also the bit about low level 3rd party drivers being loaded before the OS worries me. Naturally this will all be closed source and if two of the drivers don't play nicely how the hell will you be able to troubleshoot it. I'm all for ditching the BIOS as it stands maybe moving to something like http://www.openfirmware.org/, if it works for Apple and Sun then why not. But the thought of a platforms firmware being designed by that platforms most aggressive software developer is something that fills me with dread.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 29 Dec '03

29 Dec '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Linux support for CF card readers?
by Dennis Dryden 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

Anyone know if this: http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X… ...is supported under Linux? I recently got given a cheap digital camera but it has no connection cable's so i'm planing to use an external CompactFlash Card reader. If anyone knows of any others that work that'll be nice to know =). I'm guessing it uses the standard USB mass storage interface but you never know. - Dennis Dryden

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Happy Christmas ALUGers!
by Nick Heppleston 25 Dec '03

25 Dec '03

Just wanted to wish everybody Happy Christmas, as it is officially the 25th. Hope you all get suitably stuffed tomorrow and have a great time whatever you are doing. Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk

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Debian sarge
by Richard Lewis 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

Hello List, Whats going on at the Debian project? Linux Format, in their January issue (p. 9), under the headline "Debian Woody reaches for the skies...", report that, "the 'stable' version of Debian Woody is nearing with the launch of a second release candidate", while Linux Magazine, in their January issue (p. 88), talking about the bugginess of the debian-installer, say that, "this would not have been a big problem, if the Release Manager, Anthony Towns, had not set December 1 as the release date for Debian GNU/Linux Sarge", and while packages.debian.org continues to be out of operation and the debian.org front page makes no mention of sarge going stable. Any ideas? Cheers, Richard

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Linux Kernel 2.6.0
by Craig 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

Just went and installed this on my machine at work yesterday.. seems fine so far =D Ah.. this just reminds me of the days of 2.4 kernel. Except that I was testing the release candidate using Alan Cox's mad patch set which often froze my PII 233 box sometimes. Now I feel old...... C

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Has anybody got SuSE 9.0
by Wayne Stallwood 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

If so can they zip me across some cd's (for a fair fee) I need to see if the problem with installing 8.2 on Nehemiah based MiniITX boards has been resolved in 9. For those that may be thinking about installing SuSE (or is it SUSE now, I'm confused) on a MiniITX board, there is an issue with the Nehemiah chip, cpuid says it is a i686 compat, but it does not support the cmpxchg8b opcode, gcc assumes that anything above i486 can handle cmpxchg8b. End result is that suse 8.2's kernel (compiled for i586) will not run. Gahhhhhh I blame gcc as the IA32 documentation states that you should check before doing conditional moves,and that cmov implementation in the processor is optional. If anybody has a set they can copy for me (or lend if they don't have a burner) then it will be most appreciated. After a mail discussion between a few ALUG'ers (including myself) and a representative from SuSE (SUSE) it was confirmed that this was allowed (and even possibly encouraged) by SuSE within User groups (they even sent me some 8.2 media which I have sent to some ALUGers.) Failing that, if anyone has installed SuSE 9.0 on a Via M10000 without resorting to the install on another machine, recompile kernel and swap drive dance required with 8.2, can you let me know. Regards Wayne

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Asking Open Source hackers to develop for dollars?
by Keith Watson 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

So is this total sacrilege? or is that an over-reaction? Personally I can see anything wrong with this, what do you think? <http://www.open-mag.com/1125339824.shtml> Keith

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Description of 2.6 kernel features
by Syd Hancock 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Detailed description of 2.6 kernel features: http://kniggit.net/wwol26.html A lot has changed! Syd

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Announce digest, Vol 2 #29 - 3 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Web site changes (MJ Ray) 2. Support Free Software with buying books (fwd) (MJ Ray) 3. [ALUG] Re: Schools using open source software (nick daniels) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:58:27 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]Web site changes The web site is at http://www.alug.org.uk/ and now has: # Jobs listing linked to meeting areas # Meeting details for 2004 (Norwich, Syleham, K.Lynn in Jan and Feb. More Norwich entries to come.) # Venue listing: new map and pages for each local area. # Stuman sneakily asking for a job in the contrib area's member's directory # Dave Briggs moves his blog # Visitors from HUDLUG and France sign the visitor book -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:12:40 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]Support Free Software with buying books (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-12-17 11:20:50 +0000 From: Thorsten Ehlers <thorsten(a)freiheit.com> Subject: Support Free Software with buying books Hi, a little more than a month ago we have launched our very own online-bookshop Bookzilla.de as a partner of Libri.de (a books distributor). The system runs on machines with Debian GNU/Linux. We receive a commission of 5% on every article, which we donate 100% to the Free Software Foundation Europe <http://www.fsfeurope.org/>. So if you are planning to buy some books, CDs or DVDs, you may want to consider doing so at <http://www.bookzilla.de/>. Best regards, Stefan Richter and Thorsten Ehlers on behalf of the Bookzilla.de-team --__--__-- Message: 3 From: nick daniels <nick(a)danielsn.freeserve.co.uk> To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:10:16 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce][ALUG] Re: Schools using open source software Hi I received this email from Herts LUG and thought it worth posting I have asked permission If i could foward it and was told , foward away Regards Nick Daniels On Wednesday 17 December 2003 15:44, tony.tibbenham(a)sonoco.com wrote: > All, > > Given the enthusiasm in LUG's for getting Linux into schools I thought the > attached message was worth broadcasting. Please respond directly to Jon > Hunt > > (forwarded with the permission of Jon Hunt. Originally received via MK LUG > mailing list) > > -----Forwarded Message----- > From: Jonathon Hunt <jon.hunt(a)becta.org.uk> > Subject: Schools using open source software > Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:47:24 +0000 > > Dear sir/madam, > > My name is Jon Hunt and I work for Becta's Independent Procurement > Advisory Service (Ipas). We are currently conducting a number of total > cost of ownership studies of ICT in educational institutions, and are > keen to extend these to include schools using open source software. > > I am currently pulling together a list of schools in England that are > using open source software, based on desk research, using sources such > as http://www.schoolforge.org.uk, http://casestudy.seul.org and the > suse-linux-uk-schools list archives. > > I would be interested to hear of any particularly notable case studies > you know about? I would be very grateful for any information or advice > you could provide. > > Becta, the British Educational Communications & Technology Agency, is > the Government's lead agency for ICT in education. > > Many thanks, > > Jon Hunt > IPAS - Independent Procurement Advisory Service, Becta > Tel: +44 (0)24 7684 7190 > http://ipas.ngfl.gov.uk http://www.becta.org.uk > > -- My thoughts -- > This is a chance to get education advisors to recognise the benefits of > Linux. Becta's web site includes such gems as "Microsoft Licencing > Negotiations" which is interesting reading. > > So, a chance for all those schools and colleges who have used GNU/Linux to > detail the benefits they have received and answer the question "is Linux > cheaper for education". > > If nothing else offering real competition may encourage existing suppliers > to keep their licencing fees low. > > Anyone got some good stories to tell? _______________________________________________ main(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Openoffice in Libraries - for copying!
by Dave Briggs 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34593.html Rather ingenious - borrow a software CD from the library - for the *purpose* of copying it! Dave

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Re: Schools using open source software
by nick daniels 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

Hi I received this email from Herts LUG and thought it worth posting I have asked permission If i could foward it and was told , foward away Regards Nick Daniels On Wednesday 17 December 2003 15:44, tony.tibbenham(a)sonoco.com wrote: > All, > > Given the enthusiasm in LUG's for getting Linux into schools I thought the > attached message was worth broadcasting. Please respond directly to Jon > Hunt > > (forwarded with the permission of Jon Hunt. Originally received via MK LUG > mailing list) > > -----Forwarded Message----- > From: Jonathon Hunt <jon.hunt(a)becta.org.uk> > Subject: Schools using open source software > Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:47:24 +0000 > > Dear sir/madam, > > My name is Jon Hunt and I work for Becta's Independent Procurement > Advisory Service (Ipas). We are currently conducting a number of total > cost of ownership studies of ICT in educational institutions, and are > keen to extend these to include schools using open source software. > > I am currently pulling together a list of schools in England that are > using open source software, based on desk research, using sources such > as http://www.schoolforge.org.uk, http://casestudy.seul.org and the > suse-linux-uk-schools list archives. > > I would be interested to hear of any particularly notable case studies > you know about? I would be very grateful for any information or advice > you could provide. > > Becta, the British Educational Communications & Technology Agency, is > the Government's lead agency for ICT in education. > > Many thanks, > > Jon Hunt > IPAS - Independent Procurement Advisory Service, Becta > Tel: +44 (0)24 7684 7190 > http://ipas.ngfl.gov.uk http://www.becta.org.uk > > -- My thoughts -- > This is a chance to get education advisors to recognise the benefits of > Linux. Becta's web site includes such gems as "Microsoft Licencing > Negotiations" which is interesting reading. > > So, a chance for all those schools and colleges who have used GNU/Linux to > detail the benefits they have received and answer the question "is Linux > cheaper for education". > > If nothing else offering real competition may encourage existing suppliers > to keep their licencing fees low. > > Anyone got some good stories to tell?

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New member/subscriber
by Chris Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just saw your information posting in the uk.linux newsgroup (at least I think it was there) and thought I'd come and see what you do here. I've been in computing professionally since 1970 so I've seen a few changes over the years! :-) Currently I'm a C/C++/Java programmer with a company in Ipswich. I live at Newbourne out in the sticks (where there's no ADSL). I'm a Unix/Linux junkie, have been since the 1980s. My desktop machine at work is a Sun Solaris box but is soon to be changed to a PC running RedHat. At home I have a Slackware 9.1 'server' machine that runs all the time. It would be good to try and get some face-to-face meetings in Ipswich going again. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk)

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Microsoft virus problem - POP3 mailbox - Solved
by barrie james 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>"barrie james" <barriedj(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > Does anyone know how to get just the > message headers from a POP3 >mailbox and then go back separately >and delete > the unwanted mails without actually downloading them all? > Thanks for everyone's input on this. The first suggestion from Ian re configuring KMail with a message size works beautifully and took less than 20 seconds to implement. Checking the mailbox now with KMail, it lists all messages (size, subject, sender) which are over the 9k size limit I've set and asks whether to download, leave, or delete them. This is exactly what I needed - although there were only 8 virus mails today so it's possible they are starting to tail off. Thanks again Barrie _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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Microsoft virus problem - POP3 mailbox
by barrie james 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

After more than 2 years without any kind of Microsoft products I thought viruses were a problem for others. Unfortunately I'm now being hit by one which is causing real problems. The POP3 mailbox on my ISP is getting 20+ mails a day with a virus attachment (W32/Gibe-F FWIW, though this isn't important) This means a 2-3MB daily download just to then delete the majority of the messages, and as I'm on 56k dialup this is an unwelcome and pointless task. I thought it would be a 1 or 2 day effect, but nearly a week on the flow hasn't let up at all. Does anyone know how to get just the message headers from a POP3 mailbox and then go back separately and delete the unwanted mails without actually downloading them all? Alternatively, I'd settle for a straight deletion of all messages without download if this is an option and I can't browse messages/headers first. I've got mutt, pine,and kmail running, but would go for any suitable MTA/MUA if I can achieve the desired effect. Any ideas/suggestions? Thanks Barrie _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess

4 4

X crashes under SuSE 9.0
by Julie A 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

Hi all, I'm new to the list. My name is Eric Pierce. I'm having some problems with my new SuSE 9.0 network install. Read on if you have a minute. My network install went fine. However, X will load up and freeze under a minute. I can swirl around the mouse for 10-20 seconds then everything freezes up. I'm unable to jump to other terminals at this point. The kernel, however, is still purring along. I can ssh into the machine. But killing X remotely doesn't give me back any control over said machine. I've tried quite a few things to figure this out, but to no avail. I deleted the XF86Config to get a fresh start and ran Sax2. Sax2 crashes in less than a minute after X is up. I also tried using my working XF86Config file from SuSE 8.2, but that didn't help any (ie., X still froze). I have 2 devices that are getting different IRQ assignments under SuSE 9.0 than what they got under 8.2. 8.2 had: 10: 2 XT-PIC ohci1394, Intel 82801BA-ICH2 11: 30 XT-PIC eth0 9.0 had: 5: 25 XT-PIC eth0, ohci1394 Everything is the same except for these 2 devices grabbing IRQ 5 (they had 10 & 11 under SuSE 8.2). I'm not so sure if this IRQ reassignment under 9.0 is really the problem anyhow. I popped out the firewire card (ohci1394 above) so eth0 could grab IRQ 5 all for itself, but X still dies. I don't see anywhere in BIOS to reassign these particular IRQs. Not knowing exactly what I'm doing, I also tried setpci -s 02:08.8 INTERRUPT_LINE=11 (11 was what SuSE 8.2 put eth0 at). That went in quietly. I also did setpci -s 02:08.8 INTERRUPT_PIN=11 which went in quietly too. I reassigned the firewire card as SuSE8.2 had it as well, but I saw no change when doing 'cat /proc/interrupts'. I don't see any errors in /var/log/XFree86.0.log either. A few Warnings, but nothing that looks detrimental. I also tried pci=noacpi at bootup. When I 'dmesg' it suggested that I try this. Still no go. My video card is a NVidia TNT2 32MB / AGP. It more or less worked find with SuSE 8.2. I'm truly stumped on this one. Anyone have any ideas? Anyway, thanks for reading! Eric Pierce __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/

5 8

Meeting King's Lynn Wednesday
by MJ Ray 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

There's a meeting with Xmas quiz intended for the Hogshead in King's Lynn on Wednesday (17 Dec) at 7pm. Note that the day has changed from last month. This will probably be the last meeting at the Hogshead for a while. It's within easy walking distance of the bus and train stations and ample free car parking is available nearby. Directions are on the web site, linked from http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/meeting19.html along with a few notes on travel. It's quite easy to get to. New faces particularly welcome. Who's going to be there? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

3 3

laptop recommendations
by adam＠thebowery.co.uk 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Hi all, I am looking for a new laptop and need a few suggestions... What I want is something that doesn't have to be insanely fast, but works with Linux really nicely (and without resorting to non-free drivers). Has perhaps 512MB of ram, 40GB+ disk, half decent gfx that don't use system ram as video ram, 3 year warranty, linux friendly modem, ethernet. Built in working wireless would be nice, but I can always resort to a pcmcia wireless card. Extra points would be awarded for having a long battery life, and either a small form factor with a screen 1024x768 or a large form factor but with an amazing hires screen, keeping the weight down would also be good, and having a nipple and a trackpad would be exemplary. I would also like to avoid having to pay any M$ tax if at all possible but if the supplier doesn't support linux I am not so sure about ditching the windows license entirely for when the thing goes wrong and they won't take it back as "that must be a linux problem". Anyhow, so far I have been looking at Dells factory outlet, as they have 3 year warranty and are unlikely to go bankrupt tomorrow, so at least the warranty is worth something unlike some of the taiwanese OEM crap. I have also looked at Thinkpads on ebay, but they are all either far to expensive or very dodgy looking. Any suggestions? Thanks Adam PS I would like to spend less than a grand, just to make this mission impossible ;) and I did look at Apple laptops and they are either too expensive (powerbooks) or don't have pcmcia slots (iBook) which means they are not linux friendly :( -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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Announce digest, Vol 2 #28 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. [Fsfe-uk] "Software Patents in Europe" IRC meet 6pm Monday (James Heald) 2. LOCAL: GNU/Linux/East Anglia: 17 Dec, 25 Jan, 29 Feb+more tbc (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: James Heald <j.heald(a)ucl.ac.uk> To: fsfe-uk <fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:06:21 -0000 Subject: [Alug Announce][Fsfe-uk] "Software Patents in Europe" IRC meet 6pm Monday There's going to be an IRC discussion on "Software Patents in Europe" this Monday at 6pm, to kick off a week of free online events organised by Uninet as part of its 4th international virtual conference on unix: http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2003/english/prog.html All welcome to #linux on the Uninet IRC network, http://www.uninet.edu/uninet/servers.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Brand" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: Umeet conference on swpats > Hello, > > Uninet Project (http://www.uninet.edu) is announcing its 2003 edition of > the Umeet Conference (http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2003/english/pres.html) > This year, the organizing comittee wants to start the event by a bof session > dedicated to Software Patents in EU. Feel free to join this bof session, > which will take place on Monday, December 15th at 18:00 UTC. Umeet > conferences are given online through the IRC network of Uninet > (http://www.uninet.edu/uninet/servers.html). The bof and conferences will > take place in the #linux channel. > > For those new to IRC, you need an IRC client (such as xchat, chatzilla, > ircII) which has to be told to connect to one of the servers listed on the > previously given web page and you have to join the #linux channel (usually > by issuing a /join #linux command). If you need help or assistance, feel > free to ask. Some web gateways to IRC servers are also available for users > sitting behind restrictive firewalls or networks (http://irc.fr.uninet.edu/ > is one of these gateways). > > gb > > _______________________________________________ > bxl mailing list > (un)subscribe via > http://lists.ffii.org/mailman/listinfo/bxl and http://aktiv.ffii.org/. If you subscribed via the latter, you can unsubscribe only by going to both. > _______________________________________________ Fsfe-uk mailing list Fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-uk --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:47:20 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: GNU/Linux/East Anglia: 17 Dec, 25 Jan, 29 Feb+more tbc ALUG meets frequently around East Anglia to discuss and demonstrate GNU/Linux and other free software. The next meetings are: * [7]King's Lynn on Wed 17 Dec 2003: Informal chat and xmas quiz * [8]Norwich on Sun 25 Jan 2005: A talk? * [9]Syleham, mid-Suffolk on Sun 29 Feb 2004: Film screening and software demos * IRC each Monday from 8pm in irc.alug.org.uk #alug * Ely, date tbc If you are interested in coming along, look at the pages mentioned for details and send an email to our discussion list or the meeting organiser. We are also interested in hearing from people who can help make meetings happen again in the Ipswich and North Norfolk areas. Join the mailing list and start organising, or drop us an email privately if you'd rather. Discussion If you want to talk about this, please [13]use the mailing list. * Jump to 1. [15]Join ALUG 2. [16]FAQ 3. [17]Meetings References 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/meeting19.html 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2004/01-25Sun.html 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2004/02-29Sun.html 13. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 15. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 16. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 17. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Norwich evening meet: Thursday 13th November
by Syd Hancock 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Norwich evening meeting on thursday 13th November at 8pm at the Forum bar. All welcome - put faces to names, gossip, exchange tips, have flame wars, whatever gets you through the night. See you there Syd Other Norwich dates for your diary: Thursday 11th December 8pm at the Forum Sunday 25rd January 2pm at the Billy Bluelight Meetings pages on the ALUG site will be updated soon.

18 34

Apache failure to start
by J 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

Rar afternoon of intense heaches trying to work out the solution to this problem: Initial problem: dead, unpingable, unloginable, unviewable box: Theory (due to being able to look at console) Debian UM Linux box crashing, seemingly due to mysql Solution: Restart box via interface.... Box restarts, things come up. Now: Problem: box unpingable, but loginable. ircd and mysql have both started and are being used again, mail is up, but apache is dead: try starting apache (using apachectl) Configtest: all ok Graceful: root@dev:/var/log/apache# apachectl graceful /usr/sbin/apachectl graceful: httpd not running, trying to start [Sun Dec 14 16:07:44 2003] [error] (2)No such file or directory: mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic /usr/sbin/apachectl graceful: httpd could not be started looking at error.log: root@dev:/var/log/apache# cat error.log [Sun Dec 14 15:36:00 2003] [error] (2)No such file or directory: mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic getpeername: Socket operation on non-socket getsockname: Socket operation on non-socket Error getting local address again, thom steps in saying the mod_mime_magic isnt a problem as that wiill just die nicely when it cant configure itself, but the getpeername is possibly due to a failure of some non-existing domain name somehwere, so I go through the entier config file commenting out the virtual host loads, and the bit which makes it look for virtual hosts, and changing anything which poitns at dev.imen.org.uk to pointing at its ip address, and then try again, but I get the same error, checking all the way through a couple of times and repeating. The box is still unpingable from the outside world, (from various hosts) but pingable by itself (duhh). Could this have an affect on it. DNS lookups to it return the correct ip address for that box (otherwise I couldnt log in or irc to it). Searching the web gives me either results not relavent to apache, or just other people (including entries on debian-users which havnt been replied to (dating back years). Am I doing something incredably stupid here? J ps apologies if this goes in the wrong format its my first time using thunderbird

1 1

unmounting nfs mounts
by Syd Hancock 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

How can I unmount an nfs-mounted partition from the client? Or is that even the right question? Here is the situation: I have a directory exported on an nfs server (a desktop PC) and mounted from the command-line on my laptop. The desktop is a dual-boot which spends most of its time in windows (kids gaming machine). My plan is to have somewhere to store backups. What should I do on the client before shutting-down the server PC to let things end gracefully? Can I set-up fstab (or ?) on the client so that it will mount the exported drive if it is there but not cause problems if it is not there? Is there a better way to do this??? Many thanks Syd

2 1

Tele-conferencing under linux & M$
by Paul 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

Just had a cry for help in setting up a teleconferencing system for a small group of FOSS developers. The proposed solution is to use a specialist service provider based on conventional telephony equipment - This works fine as long as it uses local rate calls, but I would need to dial a US number.. IRC would be my favoured choice, but it has been ruled out as some people have an aversion to the keyboard. This leaves voice-over-internet (VoIP ?), an area I have no experience of. Looking at www.linphone.org, it would appear that it would only support a one-to-one connection. On the other hand, it may provide a solution to the problem of long distance calls... Question: Are there any compatable software packages that will run on linux and microsoft platforms ? Regards, Paul. -- "To err is human...to really f*** things up requires the root password."

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For sale : Understanding the Linux Kernel (O'Reilly)
by Ashley 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

I have an O'Reilly book for sale. It covers the technical details of the Linux 2.2 kernel. More information at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxkernel/ I am looking for £5. Please email me off-list if interested. -- Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. http://www.ashleyhowes.com "When all the animals of this world are gone, man will die of loneliness"

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Subject: Re: [ALUG] Norwich evening meet: Thursday 11th December
by Ricky Bruce 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

if anyones ever in the market place in norwich watch out for streetwalkers handing out heart shaped leaflets, get as many as you can, they are for Nandos on the riverside or red lion street, and you can get a free meal with them, get enough and thats free catering for the meet. The foods pretty good aswell, their chilli sauce knocks your head off, i went temporarily blind and almost passed out after a few minutes of eating my extra-hot burger. The music isnt too invasive either. Rick ps: hello everyone aswell, keep meaning to write but im lazy. Just moved back to the uk after a spell in the US, my old lug wasnt very active, as theres not a whole lot of technology in central illinois..just corn but greetings from lugop anyway. www.lugop.org _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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Re: [ALUG] laptop recommendations
by Matt Parker 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 23:20, adam(a)thebowery.co.uk wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for a new laptop and need a few suggestions... > I'd recommend an IBM. I've had Linux running on a number of Thinkpads and it's been rock solid. They're not the best laptops for their price in the world, but Linux loves them, and they're built like tanks. I dropped one from a fair height once, and except for a small crack in the LCD screen it worked without a problem. Matt -- http://www.mpcontracting.co.uk Experts in Java development and website design

1 0

D-link DSL-300G+ and SuSEfirewall2
by Peter Onion 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Anyone using this combination ? The modem has a DHCP server , which initially gives a 192.168.0.X address on a short lease. It waits until it actually has traffic to send it until using DHCP to get the real (ADSL interface) address. Then it updates the 192.168.0.X address for the real one. Changing eth0's address like this breaks the rules in the firewall. It can easily be fixed by running "rcSuSEfirewall2 restart", but it is a bit of a pain. Any other solutions ? Peter

2 1

Don't forget! Norwich evening meeting 8pm tonight
by Syd Hancock 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Norwich evening meeting 8pm tonight, Forum Coffee bar. I have a nasty runny cold just starting so may not be there this evening - if not would someone post a brief note to the list afterwards? Thanks Syd

6 5

Announce digest, Vol 2 #27 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Linux Ham headcount (MJ Ray) 2. Reminder: Norwich evening meet this week (Syd Hancock) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:32:17 +0000 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]Linux Ham headcount ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-12-03 10:06:19 +0000 From: chris williams <webboss(a)ntlworld.com> Subject: Linux Ham headcount Hi All, Would you mind asking around your lugs to see if you have and Radio Amateurs in your groups. If you could you ask any "Linux Hams" you find lurking to drop a very quick mail to :- linuxham(a)485design.co.uk At this stage Im doing a quick headcount using an email countbot to see roughly how many are about, but if there is enough interest a couple of members from our group plan to put together a UK based Linux-Ham resource site etc... We (Shropshire LUG) recently did a "Linux Awareness Day" at Telford Radio Rally - a national event kind of like a computer fair on steriods for radio amateurs. Quite a good event - several thousand visitors all of whom had to walk past our display to get to the bargains - lots of interest - kept 6 of us on the display stand busy all day with demos and chat :) Judging from the number of visitors we spoke to who indicated they used linux already there should be potentially quite a few. Our lug has about half a dozen out of our 60ish membership that are radio amateurs (around 10%). I will be interested to see if this is a national thing or if we are just a strange bunch of anoraks here in shropshire ;) cheers all... Chris W (g7/m3nbp) -- Christopher J Williams LugMaster for Shropshire - http://www.shropshire.lug.org --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Syd Hancock <syd(a)toufol.com> To: alug <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:44:44 +0000 Cc: alug <announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Subject: [Alug Announce]Reminder: Norwich evening meet this week Norwich area monthly evening meet takes place as usual on the second thursday of the month: 11th december 2003 from 8pm in the bar of the Forum, Norwich. Full details, directions etc. on the ALUG website http://www.alug.org.uk Syd --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

1 0

Router firewall
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

On my ADSL router firewall configuration there are 3 interfaces - Public, Private and DMZ and one can apparently specify ALL. I understand Public as the Internet side, Private as my home LAN side and I don't really understand DMZ for which there are default rules set up. I have my single port router (Ethernet) connected to my main computer, which has two ethernet ports, on eth1. The home LAN is connected to the other ethernet port eth0. This computer masquerades for the other computers on the network. Do I really need the DMZ rules? Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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Reminder: Norwich evening meet this week
by Syd Hancock 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Norwich area monthly evening meet takes place as usual on the second thursday of the month: 11th december 2003 from 8pm in the bar of the Forum, Norwich. Full details, directions etc. on the ALUG website http://www.alug.org.uk Syd

2 1

RE: [ALUG] Linux friendly external modem, and ISPs
by Jenny Hopkins 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: adam(a)thebowery.co.uk [mailto:adam@thebowery.co.uk] > If you saw the rats nest that was lurking under my desk at > the time I am sure you would have been more forgiving :p > Is that the true meaning of "plug 'n' pray"? :-) Jen >

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Re: [ALUG] Linux friendly external modem, and ISPs
by adam＠thebowery.co.uk 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:10:00PM +0000, Chris Walker wrote: > > I've just retrieved mine from the cupboard and it's not exactly rocket > science is it? ;-) > > One in socket and one out flying lead. Remind me not to let you loose on one > of my machines again :-) If you saw the rats nest that was lurking under my desk at the time I am sure you would have been more forgiving :p -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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Re: [ALUG] Domain name (was Linux friendly external modem, and ISPs)
by Dave Briggs 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Thanks for all your comments. I have another quick question, though it is more a matter of taste than anything... Since I am leaving my job at the University shortly, I want to get myself sorted with a new permanent email addy, and want to register a domain name. The one I wanted was to be ww.tyndale.net, or some other acceptable suffix. I like the name as it's firstly the name of the street where I live, I like the historical connection, and it's also a nice short word. dave(a)tyndale.net - sounds lovely, doesn't it? Trouble is, the only suffixes free are .info or (ugh) .biz. The latter is deffo out, but I am totally undecided as to whether tyndale.info is any good or not. If I decide not, then it's straight back to the drawing board... Does anyone have opinions on this? I could do with some ideas.... Dave On Dec 8 2003, Graham Trott wrote: > On Monday 08 December 2003 10:21, Rob Kendrick wrote: > > > Thanks. Had a quick search on Dabs, just to get a gauge on prices, > > > and the US Robotics one is £75 - rather more than I thought I would > > > have to spend. Are the £35 odd quid ones not worth bothering with? > > > > Not IME. The USR ones will give you better performance, and will last > > you forever. Also, I've had bad experiences with cheap external modems > > - some of them really are Windows-only. Boggle. So be careful what you > > buy if you're going for a cheap one. > > Yes. Most USB ones are basically external WinModems (I didn't know that > till recently). > > Though I agree external is better - nice flashing lights to look at, too > - if your WinModem is Intel or Conexant you shouldn't have too much > trouble. The latter have drivers at http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/ and > I was able to get an Intel WinModem to work pretty easily using > downloaded drivers. BT is unpredictable in its provision of broadband so > if there's the remotest chance of getting it soon you might be better > getting the internal to work. > >

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Linux friendly external modem, and ISPs
by Dave Briggs 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

I am getting fed up with having to use Windows whenever I want to read my mail, browse the web etc - it's becoming a real pain in the backside. Having totally failed to find anything of any use on getting my winmodem to work with Linux, I have decided to give in and buy myself a nice proper external modem for christmas. Any recommendations? Also, I need to sign up with a decent ISP, and would like to use one that offers a flat rate monthly fee, though I can't have broadband. Does anyone have a personal favourite here? Thanks Dave

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Hello there
by Roberto Puricelli 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Hello everybody, My name is Rob and I live in Norwich. I work for a global financial institution as an e-support coach, which basically means I travel the length & breadth of the UK, training and coaching our staff and financial advisers on how to use our trading software. In the past I was mainly involved in retail although I spent some time with Gateway, the American PC manufacturer, in their business division. I found ALUG in Linux Format magazine and thought I'd sign up. I am a very green newbie to Linux! I've often pondered giving it a go and after talking to a former work colleague who is Linux crazy, I thought "What the hell, I have nothing to lose", and promptly went out and bought a couple of books that both came with Red Hat 9. I installed it onto my laptop and within about 20 minutes or so, I was up and running. Since then, I've just messed around with it and dipped in to the books occasionally. It takes a little getting used to after years of Windows usage, but it's like a pair of new shoes...familiar, if a little uncomfortable to start with. I have to admit that since then, I've trawled the net for information and stuff, and have ended up downloading many new distributions such as Slackware, Knoppix, Peanut, Morphix, DamnSmallLinux and LNX-BBC to name but a few. I've also gone a bit crazy and downloaded loads of apps and stuff. All I really want to do is get a real feel for the OS and the whole Open Source community and what it has to offer. Although I don't see myself abandoning Windows, I do see myself using Linux to do all the things that are too darn expensive to do on Windows, such as Web Design etc. You see, I have no programming ability whatsoever and I have yet to find a web design program that wasn't either difficult to use, severely lacking in features or didn't cost the same as the Gross National Product of a small European nation! With Open Source, it looks like I can be more creative and productive at significantly less cost than with Windows. Sadly, I have yet to discover a really good and stable music sequencing package (a la Cubase) as I am a part time musician. I have just downloaded Rosegarden 4 and will give that a go soon. Anyway, enough of my ramblings. I'd love to hear from fellow newbie's, and I might just be able to pop along to the meeting on the 11th if work commitments allow. Hope to see some of you soon, Rob.

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Re: [ALUG] Linux friendly external modem, and ISPs
by Wayne Stallwood 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Monday 08 December 2003 18:08, Chris Walker wrote: > There's a company local to Norwich called Grey Electronics that sell modem > protectors. I have one around here somewhere but I've been a bit lax in not > buying one to protect my ADSL router. Reject any type that doesn't filter mains as well. (or at least have a decent earth connection) Why ? Erm umpteen zillion volt lightening bolt (or just a transient induced voltage) will need to be going to ground. unless filter is the size of a house, or has a decent earth it won't work ! I've seen modem filters that are just a box that goes in the line, unlikely to do very much as your modem and computer will still be a far more attractive path to ground. Oh and also reject any line filter that doesn't say it can cope with ADSL (if that's what you have) Some of them are a bit of a bandpass filter as well and that will upset ADSL unless the filter has been designed to let it through. Most modem deaths are an induced voltage picked up by the line from a near strike, more often happens in the sticks where a higher percentage of lines are in the air. If you get a direct strike, you will be lucky to find your modem, let alone use it again. Never really understood why BT don't just put a smallish spark gap at the point the line enters the house, tie it to a convenient ground. Won't stop the transients, but would stop the "Ok so who replaced all my phones with charred lumps of plastic during the lightning storm last night" That I saw a few times when I used to fill out technical insurance reports at a previous job.

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Windows-to-Linux migration support articles from IBM.
by Syd Hancock 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Windows-to-Linux migration support articles from IBM. Looks like a useful and detailed resource. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-roadmap.html Syd

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Mandrake Community Twiki
by Syd Hancock 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Heaps of Mandrake support and advice here http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/WebHome

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USB/SCSI fun in 2.6.0
by MJ Ray 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

I'm having the following problem with my scanner under 2.6.0 It connects through SCSI and a USB bridge. I do the following steps: 1. Power everything up; 2. modprobe usb-storage 3. modprobe sg 4. sane-find-scanner runs fine and can see the scanner; 5. scanimage locks the machine up hard -- sometimes magic SysRq gets me out, sometimes it doesn't. After a reboot, I see no errors in the syslog. Anyone know how to debug this, or a better configuration? I'd really appreciate it. Meanwhile, I'm going to try patching the kernel up to the latest. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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Re: [ALUG] Linux friendly external modem, and ISPs
by adam＠thebowery.co.uk 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 06:08:22PM +0000, Chris Walker wrote: > > There's a company local to Norwich called Grey Electronics that sell modem > protectors. I have one around here somewhere but I've been a bit lax in not > buying one to protect my ADSL router. I think it says something that I had one of these and it didn't work very well, but that was down to me managing to plug the wrong cable in at the wrong point and bypassing the protector entirely :) -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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Installing Gentoo
by Graham Trott 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

I'm installing Gentoo on a VIA 800MHz mini-ITX, following the excellent instructions on the website. However, at the crucial point of entering the new environment, the following command fails: cdimage gentoo # chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash Illegal instruction Everything seems to be in the right place; any ideas why this might be happening? Have I made an error in assuming the CPU (calls itself an Ezra) is a 686-class? -- GT

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UK NHS trials Sun Linux
by Craig 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

UK NHS trials Sun Linux, threatens 800k user defection from MS: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34396.html It is a start... -- - Craig - http://www.wizball.co.uk "Simplicity, the best way to approach life"

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Re: [ALUG] Linux friendly external modem, and ISPs
by Dave Briggs 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

On Dec 8 2003, Rob Kendrick wrote: > US Robotics. (Or 3com, whoever makes them these days.) Although if you > can get a PCI one still these days, I'd get one of theses. They can be > slightly less latent. Thanks. Had a quick search on Dabs, just to get a gauge on prices, and the US Robotics one is £75 - rather more than I thought I would have to spend. Are the £35 odd quid ones not worth bothering with? > Eclipse. For a fixed fee, they'll give you dial-up with a static IP > (you can even chose rDNS for it). Although it does kick you off every > so often (2 or 4 hours, depending on package) you can just instantly > redial, and there are no limits. And because you've got a static IP, if > you redial quickly enough, it doesn't really matter. All for less than > 30 quid. Had a look at these - they look very reasonable. Thanks for the tip. Dave

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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ext3 in windows
by Ben Francis 07 Dec '03

07 Dec '03

Is there a way to view my ext3 Linux root partition in Windows? At the moment all my files are stored on a FAT partition so I can view it as a drive letter in Windows and mount it in Linux. I'd prefer to store my files in /home/tola/ and be able to view them from Windows when I need to. Any suggestions? -- Ben "tola" Francis 00101010 tola ^/. http://hippygeek.co.uk mailto:tola_at_imen.org.uk opinions expressed are of the voices in my head only

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cordless mouse
by Syd Hancock 07 Dec '03

07 Dec '03

I'm thinking of getting a cordless mouse for the laptop. Has anyone here used one? From pictures, they seem to have a receiver at the laptop end, plugged into a usb port. Does this need to be line of site from the mouse? Also, is a purely h/w device or does it need drivers? TIA Syd

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Re: [ALUG] Microsoft and schools
by Ben Francis 07 Dec '03

07 Dec '03

Chris Walker wrote: > Dennis also mentioned that he had used Acorn machines and so there may be a > link to Linux. There is a RISC OS desktop available for most distros of > Linux, SuSe and BSD at http://rox.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/ which might enable > a seemless link between those few Acorn machines that still reside in schools > and to any companies that might want to run it. Acorns? Well there are 200 Computers in my school and there is one Acorn computer left. It sits in the corner of my Linux Lab (8 Linux Boxen - I am trying!!) quietly (actually it's quite noisy) and nobody even knows it's there, apart from the head of Geography who doesn't use it any more. The Acorn runs 24/7 displaying readings from the remains of the weather reading equipment on the roof. There used to be a lot of Acorns running in the technology department about 4 or 5 years ago - they're all PCs running Windows these days. -- Ben "tola" Francis 00101010 tola ^/. http://hippygeek.co.uk mailto:tola_at_imen.org.uk opinions expressed are of the voices in my head only

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Re: [ALUG] Microsoft and schools
by Dennis Dryden 07 Dec '03

07 Dec '03

On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 12:22, Chris Walker wrote: > Dennis also mentioned that he had used Acorn machines and so there may be a > link to Linux. There is a RISC OS desktop available for most distros of > Linux, SuSe and BSD at http://rox.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/ which might enable > a seemless link between those few Acorn machines that still reside in schools > and to any companies that might want to run it. > > I'm about to try it on my Mandrake 9.0 install although I'm typing this on a > genuine RISC OS machine. Well the few Acorns that were left were only used for one application(some old math program), so i don't think they wanted to get rid of the OS(along with the program). Maybe an emulator on a Linux Machine would be good but i don't see a Acorn running Linux + X and then running an emulator of itself. Seems like it would kill the old box'en. - Dennis Dryden

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Re: [ALUG] Microsoft and schools
by Tarquin Mills 07 Dec '03

07 Dec '03

Chris Walker wrote: > On Sun 07 Dec, Tarquin Mills wrote: > > Ben Francis wrote: > > > It's also harder for schools to get cheap support for a Linux system. > > > Technicians who can just about cope with a Windows NT/2000 network and > > > keep the printers topped up with ink are easy to come by and > > > relatively cheap to employ. A Linux system adminstrator is not. > > I disagree, IT people are plentiful in Norwich, and as IT jobs become > > more and more scarce this going to more so. > > I'm with Ben on this one. Sorry Tarquin :-) > > My employer has thousands of Microsoft desktop machines and almost as many > problems seemingly. The 'midrange' team that support Sun boxes amongst > others are quite knowledgeable whereas I wouldn't describe the other > mob in the same way and as a service engineer for twenty years it's easy > for me to compare. That is not bit I disargeeing with, the bit I disargee with is that they cannot find a "cheap" Linux SysAdmin. -- Tarquin Mills RUNG (RISC OS Users, Norfolk Group) http://speccyverse.homedns.org/rung/ (running on RISC OS) New domain name coming soon http://***.***********.**.**/

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Re: [ALUG] Microsoft and schools
by Craig 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

On 6 Dec 2003, at 11:15, Chris Walker wrote: >> You are right there. I just felt that I need to watch the show just to >> see what the BBC put together. It just seems that TV still never get >> the point across about computers in general etc. > > Such short memories but then since I don't know your age, it's entirely > possible that you weren't watching tv when the BBC did their series on > computers in the very late 70's and early 80's. That's when they > sponsored > the build of a computer - remember the BBC A and B models that were > everywhere, including most schools? I'm 24 ;) Okay, you're older than me heh. Yeah I remember those BBC computers.. old sk00l ;) > Sinclair were most upset when they weren't awarded the contract. > Instead it > went to Acorn who were visited by a certain Mr. Gates who tried to > sell them > his version of BASIC. They pointed out to him that theirs was quicker > and > could run on a network, to which he is quoted as asking 'what's a > network?' > so not much changes does it? Acorn are no more and Gates has ripped > off even > more ideas in the meantime. Wow. Bill Gates actually said that? Well well well.. there is no end to this. Frankly, Bill Gates is in fact a sales person more than a computer buff anyway. And a particularly evil one at that ;) C -- - Craig - http://www.wizball.co.uk "Simplicity, the best way to approach life"

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Re: [ALUG] Microsoft and schools
by Wayne Stallwood 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

On Saturday 06 December 2003 11:18, Chris Walker wrote: > There is a third and final show new week comparing Tiger Woods and Beckham > <yawn> so you'll be able to find out then unless it gives out that > information on the BBC web site. The website is- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/worlds_most_powerful/ But I can't find any reference to a production company, can't bear to watch the next eposide, Tiger Woods should win but you just know it's going to be Beckham. Why Tiger Woods ... a. Google says so, "Tiger Woods" catches 1,370,000 pages, "David Beckham" catches 528,000. b. There is no David Beckham's football computer game, but I recall a couple of Tiger Woods golf games. See with five minutes of very scientific work I have saved the BBC the bother of airing this program. The Question is already answered. :o)

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Microsoft and schools
by nick daniels 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

Microsoft boss Bill Gates has promoted laptops for pupils Schools across the UK could save up to £50m on Microsoft software over the next three years. The Education Secretary, Charles Clarke, said Microsoft had reached an agreement with the government's educational technology agency, Becta. "This kind of agreement shows the advantages in co-ordinated procurement for schools across the country." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3291279.stm Regards Nick Daniels

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wi-fi in libraries plan
by Syd Hancock 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

Gov plans to make every library a wi-fi hotspot http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/69/34352.html Syd

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SMTP daemon popularity
by MJ Ray 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

Can anyone direct me to figures about number of installations for the different SMTP daemons? I'm quite interested in estimated % share of sendmail, but other servers are also interesting. I don't think netcraft collect the numbers any more.

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Re: [ALUG] Microsoft and schools
by Dave Briggs 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

On Friday 05 December 2003 09:16, Craig wrote: > Speaking about this.. anyone seen that show last night on BBC2? Bill > Gates 'won' ;) > > 'Bill Gates won because his software is everywhere' > > True however but I felt as always the BBC doesn't research far enough. I think these sort of programmes are a real waste of time, and don't actually teach us anything new. An obvious way to sort out who was more 'powerful' (however you define that) between Gates and Jobs would just to do a quick poll on who had heard of Gates, and who had heard of Jobs. Gates would be a clear winner, it would take 5 minutes and then we could get on with the rest of our lives. However, the whole exercise is fatuous in the extreme. On Dec 4 and 5 2003, nick daniels wrote: > Microsoft boss Bill Gates has promoted laptops for pupils > Schools across the UK could save up to £50m on Microsoft software over > the next three years. The Education Secretary, Charles Clarke, said > Microsoft had reached an agreement with the government's educational > technology agency, Becta. "This kind of agreement shows the advantages in > co-ordinated procurement for schools across the country." > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3291279.stm > > Sorry I meant to add on the bottom " how much would the > saving be if open source was adopted" Exactly. £50m saved must mean an awful lot more than that is being spent, which at the end of the day is our money, as taxpayers. They should ditch all propriatory software in schools, and switch to OSS. Part of the savings could be spent on providing hard up families with computers, again fully installed with OSS. The rest can be spent on (gasp) books. If kids at school are using the software, they will want to be able to use it at home. Sufficient numbers will then be clued up when they go into the workplace, and can help business save some money too. Dave

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JOB Opportunities for C/C++ on linux
by Vasko Tomanov 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

Hi, The company where I work now search for 2-3 experienced Linux C/C++ developers. ( for multiplatform development) Do anyone search for new job ? Cheers Vasko Tomanov

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EU guide to OSS migration
by Dave Briggs 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

Not sure if everyone has already seen this, if so, apologies. http://europa.eu.int/ISPO/ida/jsps/index.jsp?fuseAction=showDocument&parent… It's basically a guide by the EU for government bodies migrating from propriatory to open source software. The main document is a 150 page behemoth of a PDF, but I have scanned through it and seems to make sensible reading. They even provide a speadsheet to work out potential cost savings - and you can have in in OpenOffice.org format as well as Excel! True believers, clearly. I am starting a new job at a local council in the New Year and it will be interesting to find out in any discussions have been made about using OSS in their offices. With several governmental bodies on the continent (the Germans are quite keen, aren't they?) making the switch, it would be interesting to know how things are progressing in this country - especially in the wake of all of our rising council tax bills.... Dave

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Re: [ALUG] EU guide to OSS migration
by Dave Briggs 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

On Dec 5 2003, MJ Ray wrote: > Some UK councils are moving over. The most high profile migration in > progress is probably SuSE's work with Nottingham City Council. There's a > press release that's more like an article at > http://www.suse.de/en/company/press/press_releases/archive03/nottingham_cit… A brilliant example of the way that OSS can be used to a) reduce costs long term and b) actually do a job *better* than propriatory solutions. I think any organisation that uses propriatory software on servers really must be a bit mental, these days. With more success stories like this, OSS will get more of a foothold in the consciousness of those behind IT policy in these organisations - I think a snowball effect would be highly likely: word would soon spread, especially about the cost savings. You never know, Linux might even end up on council office desktops! > and it featured in GLU&D issue 31 (SCO Erupts cover). I can't see it > online, but I can drop a copy of the article to you if you want. That would be interesting - maybe bring it to the KL meet in the New Year? Dave

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A6 meeting notices
by MJ Ray 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

Last I was at the forum in Norwich, people seemed to like the small meeting notices, so I've turned them into templates, plugged them into a script and produced ones for the other venues: http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/cards.ps.php?loc=NCH for Norwich http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/cards.ps.php?loc=MID for Syleham It's fairly easy to add other venues as details appear, or update the above. Please get them out into shops, windows, noticeboards, etc. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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Re: [ALUG] FOSS for Joe (was Hello There)
by Dave Briggs 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

On Dec 4 2003, Graham Trott wrote: > Capable, yes. Willing, not so sure. People who use Windows expect a > fully graphical approach to anything, whether it does the job better or > not. Once persuaded of the benefits of manual mark-up they're surely > capable, but if they're only doing lightweight HTML the problem is in > making that first step. Many Windows users regard Linux as "DOS but more > complicated" and therefore a retrograde step back from the wonderful > world of on-screen widgets. The way to tempt them in is to provide > familiar eye-candy, not lecture them with a stern, Spartan "Do it this > way, it's good for you". A good point. If Linux is to make the breakthrough to non-savvy desktop users, I suppose there has to be an equivalent application for everything that Windows has. Like you say, the lecture would put people off, I guess.

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RE: [ALUG] cups server problem
by Jenny Hopkins 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

> >> Is the second machine listed in your /etc/exports.allow ? > > > > I thought that was only used for NFS? I think LPRng used hosts.lpd, > > but I > > don't know what CUPS uses. > > Me too. Cups is configured in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf on here, for > network (IPP) connections you need to change the allowed machines, > works very much in the same way as apache's set up as far as I can > see. > > Hope that gives a starting point. > > Cheers, > > Brett. Ah, I should have caught up on all my mails before replying. I've allowed everything in cupsd.conf, restarted the server, but can't print from either a windows samba share or a linux box on the same network: the requests are getting through but tail-ing the cups access/error log don't give clues, logging on full. The windows error is "permission denied", the linux box doens't give one. Both the win and linux are connecting as users I've set up on the server, as ordinary and samba users. I set my firewall to allow everything local in case that was the problem. Baffled, Jenny

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RE: [ALUG] cups server problem
by Jenny Hopkins 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: Paul [mailto:bdi-emc@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 02 December 2003 17:36 > To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Subject: Re: [ALUG] cups server problem > > > > Hi Jenny > > Is the second machine listed in your /etc/exports.allow ? > > Regards, Paul. > Oooooh, no! I'll try that when I get home, I've tried everything else.... Thanks, Jenny

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Re: [ALUG] FOSS for Joe (was Hello There)
by Dave Briggs 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

On Dec 4 2003, MJ Ray wrote: > Anyway, a short recap of what I remember from the last discussion: > there are some GUI tools, but code editing gives the finest control. A > true "WYSIWYG [HTML] editor" is impossible. I think this is right. I hand code my websites, and I am *so* un-techy that I can't even get my soundcard to work in Linux. I have tried using Dreamweaver on a machine at work, and I have to say that it confused the hell out of me - I think it might actually be easier to hand code. I use gedit to edit my files - even bluefish etc manage to confuse me! There are loads of good HTML guides on the web, although often having a book in front of you helps. One of the reasons I like coding websites is that it is a really simple way of "programming" (I know, I know; I am using the term in it's loosest sense) a computer, and getting some good results. My advice would be: Give it a go! Dave

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FOSS for Joe (was Hello There)
by Ben Francis 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

P.S. http://home.freeuk.com/losingtouch/pics/office_suicide.gif -- Ben "tola" Francis 00101010 tola ^/. http://hippygeek.co.uk mailto:tola_at_imen.org.uk opinions expressed are of the voices in my head only

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Re: [ALUG] Video cards (or Names and topics)
by Edenyard 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

MJR wrote: > > Video cards that play DVDs? Actually the card? Not use a program? I > think you get the idea. > Well - maybe I've been labouring under a misapprehension all this time, but I've seen advertised some cards, such as this one: "GeForce2 MX400 AGP 64MB Graphics Accelerator - (blah, blah) Allows full-screen, full-frame DVD playback." Or there's this: "nVIDIA TNT2 M64 Graphic Accelerators - (blah, blah again) DVD playback using Power DVDXP4.0 with RCA composite and S-VHS outputs" I don't know whether quoting those two makes it any clearer why I've been asking my question, or whether I'm barking up some sort of a wrong tree. I assumed that proper DVD decoding (whatever that might be) needed more power than a CPU could give and so some sort of purpose-made hardware did the decoding. But why would a card's spec specifically talk about allowing full-screen DVD playback if the type of card had no bearing on this???? > > From http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html -- > "If you can't get an answer, please don't take it personally that we > don't feel we can help you. Soemtimes the members of the asked group > may simply not know the answer. No response is not the same as being > ignored" > Thanks for the reference - I'll go and find it next time I'm connected. Clearly, though, there have been (infinitely) more answers since I made my comment than before (ratio = 6:0) so I'm not sure that the sentence you quoted above explains why I didn't get a response before. Cheers, Gerald.

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Kernel Bug found at root of Debian's Compromised Servers
by Wayne Stallwood 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/debian-security-announce-2… Patches available for 2.4.18 2.4.23 and 2.6.0-test6 onwards are unaffected.

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RE: [ALUG] cups server problem
by Jenny Hopkins 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

Wayne Stallwood wrote: > > Not a CUPS expert by any means, but this sounds like a > flaky/incorrect printer > driver to me. > > What printer and CUPS driver are you using ? > Hi, The posts on this arrived after I left work yesterday, but I had another go last night and got it working. I think what *may* have happened is that because I'd been initially faffing about with various drivers/ports/settings the parallel port had got into an unhappy state. So when I then thought it should work as I'd got the settings correct (Epson Stylus C70, driver something like cups-2.4-gimp-something, /dev/lp0) it still kept spitting out nonsense. In the end a reboot cured it and it printed me a glorious test page. I then spent a while trying to print to it from a second linux box; I could see the request was getting through to the server by watching the output to the logfiles, but it seemed unhappy with "get_printer_attr" - "no good!" type errors. It'll be something silly somewhere. Thanks, Jenny

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Advice required on CD burning software
by Nick Heppleston 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

Morning all, Starting to get into the world of creating my own CD's and as my new laptop doesn't have a floppy drive, I need to start writing data CD's. Can anybody recommend CD-writing software (and CD-RW software if there is a difference) for Linux? I run Gentoo over a blistering 56k dial-up modem so am looking for a few recommendations before I unleash the power of the modem ;-) Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

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Re: Playing DVDs with Linux using Ogle
by Richard Lewis 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

> I thought I would have a go at trying to get my PC to play DVDs this weekend > so I done an apt-get install ogle-mmx ogle-gui then ran install-css.sh and > linked /dev/dvd to /dev/hdc. > Why not just link to someting more obvious? # ln -s /dev/cdrom /dev/dvd > If I type "ogle" I get the ogle gui appear When I first started using Ogle I used to use it on the cmd line: $ ogle -u cli I remeber I often had to issue this command about 3 or 4 times and eventually it just worked. > However if I then click on FILE and OPEN DSC the following appears: > > libdvdcss error: failed opening device > libdvdread: Can't open /dev/dvd for reading. Do you know what version of libdvdcss, libdvdread and libdvdplay you have installed? Get the latest versions and make sure they're installed properly and with --prefix=/usr. They has quite a few dependencies so make sure they're all installed as well. http://developers.videolan.org/ (You may have to compile you're own versions of these; I don't know whether they're [libdvdcss] in Debian or not and I can't check because packages.debian.org is still down!) Cheers, Richard

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Re: xwWindows
by Richard Lewis 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

>> Do anyone use wxWidows ? > > Many people use wxWindows. I think the site http://www.wxwindows.org/ > keeps lists of examples. > >> I juts thinking to base my staff on it or to use the standard way - >> GTKor >> KDE ? >> Some suggestion ? > > It depends how portable you wish your program to be. wxWindows can run > in lots of places and make a reasonable attempt at *looking* correct, > although it can't integrate as well with GNOME or KDE. > > I like to see people develop GNUstep, but that's another story. I would choose wxWindows over GNUstep; wxWindows runs on Unix variants, MacOS (inc. < 10) and Windows; whereas GNUstep only really runs on Unix variants. wxWindows is written in C++ against GNUstep in Objective C. (Though I suppose whether this is an advantage or disadvantage is enturely a matter of opinion ;) ) wxWindows is at a further stage of development. (2.4.2 against 1.9 & 0.9.1) Cheers, Richard

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Reminder: Norwich thursday meet next week
by Syd Hancock 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

Don't forget: Norwich monthly evening meeting next week, thursday 11th December, from 8pm at the Forum bar. Syd

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Video cards (or Names and topics)
by Edenyard 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Thanks to Adam, Anthony and MJR for the thoughts on video cards. Adam wrote: > > to make your own VGA to Scart/RGB cable and use custom refresh rates to drive > the TV, you could possibly kill your tv doing this :) As far as I know there > are no consumer gfx cards that do RGB out (they either do composite or > s-video) > if anyone can prove me wrong then that would be fantastic. > RGB out was only a preference - I'd happily accept composite PAL or even YUV. But I suppose YUV is even more unlikely than RGB? Anthony Anson wrote: > > Did you say why you wanted a different card and what constitutes 'good'? > Yes, I did. I want something that plays DVDs well and something that gives composite, RGB or YUV video signals (in addition to the standard VGA socket). What constitutes 'good' is being well supported by Linux, i.e., having stable drivers that make all of the card's functions work. MJR wrote: > > Most likely, your question wasn't precise enough > Well - fair enough, if it wasn't. However (and with all due respect), I'd have thought that "I want well-supported video card for Linux that plays DVDs with video out" might have been specific enough to get something going? > > (seen ESR's paper about "smart questions"?) > No! What's that all about, then? Thanks for the input! Gerald.

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wxWindows
by Vasko Tomanov 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Do anyone use wxWidows ? I juts thinking to base my staff on it or to use the standard way - GTKor KDE ? Some suggestion ? Cheers Vasko

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cups server problem
by Jenny Hopkins 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Hi List, Are there any CUPS experts out there? I tried to set up cups printing system last night, but when I try and print a test page from the webadmin page on the localhost it prints the first top half-inch of "This is a test page" in inch-high letters then grinds to a halt and just sits there. Thanks, jenny

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Playing DVDs with Linux using Ogle
by Ian Douglas 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Hi folks, I thought I would have a go at trying to get my PC to play DVDs this weekend so I done an apt-get install ogle-mmx ogle-gui then ran install-css.sh and linked /dev/dvd to /dev/hdc. If I type "ogle" I get the ogle gui appear and I get the following console errors: Note[ogle_ctrl]: ogle 0.8.2 Debug[ogle_ctrl]: Started /usr/lib/ogle/ogle_gui with pid 4483 warning: failed to load external entity "/home/ian/.oglerc" WARNING[ogle_gui]: Couldn't load config file WARNING[ogle_gui]: interpret_config(): Couldn't read '/home/ian/.oglerc' Debug[ogle_ctrl]: Started /usr/lib/ogle/ogle_nav with pid 4484 warning: failed to load external entity "/home/ian/.oglerc" WARNING[ogle_nav]: Couldn't load config file WARNING[ogle_nav]: interpret_config(): Couldn't read '/home/ian/.oglerc' Debug[ogle_ctrl]: Started /usr/lib/ogle/ogle_mpeg_ps with pid 4485 Debug[ogle_ctrl]: Started /usr/lib/ogle/ogle_vout with pid 4486 However if I then click on FILE and OPEN DSC the following appears: libdvdcss error: failed opening device libdvdread: Can't open /dev/dvd for reading. vm: faild to open/read the DVD Debug[ogle_ctrl]: child: 4484 exited with 1 Debug[ogle_ctrl]: pid: 4484 exited with status: 1 Debug[ogle_ctrl]: child: 4486 killed Debug[ogle_ctrl]: pid: 4486 terminated on signal: 2 Debug[ogle_ctrl]: child: 4485 killed Debug[ogle_ctrl]: pid: 4485 terminated on signal: 2 Debug[ogle_ctrl]: child: 4483 killed Debug[ogle_ctrl]: pid: 4483 terminated on signal: 2 Debug[ogle_ctrl]: removing shmid: 10616832 Note[ogle_ctrl]: exiting ian@rhino:~$ I am confused.... why is ogle unable to open /dev/dvd? Ian.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Given the talk of lurkers...
by Owain Sutton 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

....thought I'd introduce myself New to Linux, arriving here for various reasons, but the main one is being unable to trust MS with anything remotely secure.... Desperatly wishing I could claim that OpenOffice is better than MS Office, but I can't, sorry. Internet Explorer, on the other hand, deserved retirement a long time ago. In short, I guess I'm hoping that a dual boot box will give me the best of both worlds in the short and medium term (yes, unfortunately there's some software I need which is Windows-only). Anyway, that's my ambivalent position stated :D ....btw count me out of most meetings, because Woodbridge without a car is not fun :S

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Fedora - what's in a name?
by Ben Francis 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

It seems RedHat didn't do their research very well when choosing a name for their new project. Is this going to cause any serious problems? http://www.fedora.info/fedora.shtml Building their brand could be quite difficult when it happens to be someone elses... -- Ben "tola" Francis 00101010 tola ^/. http://hippygeek.co.uk mailto://tola_at_imen.org.uk opinions expressed are of the voices in my head only

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Re: [ALUG] Names and topics
by Edenyard 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

MJR wrote: > > I want the lurkers to speak up. We have 250 addresses getting copies > of this. Even if we assume that all the meeting venues get different > people (definitely untrue IMO), that means we only see about three > dozen of them to talk with. How do we get the other seven-eighths > involved? > Alright, then! I didn't think I had anything useful to add to this thread, but because MJR wrote the above and I have a lot of respect for what he writes, I'll attempt to add in my tuppence. Why don't 'the others' get involved? I can only share my experiences. I run a Linux system, from which I have learnt a lot but I've only scratched the surface, as things go, and I still need lots of help. One area in which I really do need help just now is in getting a good video card. I posted a message about this and, when I saw all those digests waiting to be read earlier today, I felt sure that the answer to my question would be in there. But no! Nothing! What? Does nobody else on this list use a video card? Or have I not used the correct incantation to get a response? So how come no-one had ANYTHING to say on this subject? Now this isn't, by any means, the first time I've had this experience on this list. Maybe I'm not alone (I'll assume that I'm not singled out for this treatment), so if others have had this experience with ALUG (or any LUG, really), then maybe it's not so surprising that lots of would-be members don't participate as much as would be desired. Right - I suppose you'll want to excommunicate me after that contribution.... Cheers, Gerald.

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Re: Jamming the network
by Christopher Dawkins 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

>> And to ask you who else has come across the danger to corporate >> networks posed by the convenience of auto-crossover ports. > I had this at a middle school I do work for, One little darling student > did exactly this. <snip> > It is annoying that such a thing can happen, but to be honest it's no > worse than in the old days of a missing t-piece or a cable fault, > bringing down a whole coax lan. True, those were the days. But the Base-T system has been so comparatively rock-solid reliable and proof against all the problems we used to have that it has been a shock to find that it is so easily compromised. And the problem has only arisen with the more recent equipment! > You should be using spanning tree protocol (sometimes called spamming > tree protocol when it breaks) which should allow these kind of redundant > links that you are creating. Indeed redundant links should be/are a good > thing. Yes, redundant links are, I am building up a number, and I have looked at STP. The main reason I haven't used it is that I prefer the idea of subnets, routed, RIP and routers instead: routers based on multi-port FreeBSD boxes. I don't see how STP (or subnets) cure this switch-jamming problem, except that the more intelligent the device the more capable it is of preventing the jam from spreading back onto the network spine. However, we have some quite large (multi-building) branches containing hundreds of outlets that are all within the same easily-jammed area. Luckily I don't yet have a large number of auto MDI/MDIX switches and am hoping to obtain more older models, which are immune to this problem because normal users don't possess crossover leads. -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd(a)felsted.essex.sch.uk

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Enticement, was: Names and topics
by MJ Ray 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

On 2003-11-29 11:45:57 +0000 Chris Walker <linux(a)wymondham.demon.co.uk> wrote: > I'm already committed to other meetings on Thursdays so that's why > this > lurker doesn't attend them. I think we've been trying hard to scatter the days. Ely (might be trains there from Wymondham if you like beer) and K.Lynn have been on Tuesdays and Wednesdays so far. Sunday afternoon meetings are being planned further ahead to give people more notice (thanks to Syd and John). Is there something more we can do to make it more attractive? ("No" is fine as an honest answer IMO.) -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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