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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:39:40 +0100 (BST) linux user stuff wrote: > On Wed 22 Aug, David Freeman wrote: > [snip] > > What do you want to know? I am thinking of writing something for the > > website on this, but I have been busy writing my first RFC "IP over > Liquid > > Beverage Containers" of late so haven't had much time. > > > > If you want to forward me some questions you want answered I will add > > them as FAQ and also answer them. > > > > Oh and BTW it was me who did the stuff at the UEA. > > Yes, I was aware of that but I was busy having the kernel on my machine > attended to, by Adam I think, and I never had time to ask questions. What > sort of equipment is needed? What sort of cost? What licensing > conditions are > there and is the exam - I assume there is one - very difficult? its a brave man who lets adam fiddle with there kernel :o) The first question I have to ask is what do you want to use it for, how much money do you have and howmany users? Followed shortly by why did you think there was an exam for using wireless? I know you need to do an exam for a VHF license (got mine soon) but for 802.11 you don't it sits in the Industrial, Scientific and Medical (ISM) band and is license exempt. Not however that Bluetooth, kitchen Microwaves, video senders and lots of other bits of kit live in this band. Thanks D > -- > __ __| |_ __ __ .------------------------------------------. > / _/ _` \ V V / | mailto:linux@wymondham.demon.co.uk | > \__\__,_|\_/\_/ |__________________________________________| > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > I know you need to do an exam for a VHF license (got mine soon) but for > 802.11 you don't it sits in the Industrial, Scientific and Medical (ISM) 802.11? Airsnort! see http://lwn.net/ security section amongst others.

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Re: [Alug] FW: I thought you might want this
by MJ Ray 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > Besides, if Mr. Stallman sees that plate, your car is history. To paraphrase RMS, "Richard Stallman is not the great Satan". I doubt even he would expect something which is (still) impossible with our number plate system. There must be more "GNU" plates out there than "L1NUX" plates, anyway ;-)

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Syleham poster 4 u
by MJ Ray 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

Initial details of the syleham meeting should be on the website. A poster to be scattered around liberally is at http://mjr.towers.org.uk/alug/syleham20016.pdf I'd wait until tomorrow, though, so that I can correct all the goofs that people will point out to me ;-)

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Re: [Alug] Security problems (was Lurkers)
by MJ Ray 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> writes: > Can someone clue me in on how MITM attack would work here? Key stroke analysis even. > I'm probably just hard-of-thinking this morning. Yes, you are, aren't you?

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Security problems (was Lurkers)
by MJ Ray 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: > ssh: mitm, key stroke analysis (which seems to have been "discovered" lately > but i thought it was obvious to anyone sitting down with tcpdump > and an ethernet with ssh...) Can someone clue me in on how MITM attack would work here? Am I right in thinking it's only when the user types their password into the remote machine? > The problem with certificate based approaches is that in order to be What alternatives are there to certificates? I'm probably just hard-of-thinking this morning.

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FW: I thought you might want this
by Earl Brannigan 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

Anyone got a few grand to spare.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1181583482 Cheers Earl

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Re: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

Alexis Lee has the sig: >The early bird gets the worm. The second mouse gets the cheese. - Jen Hopkins Wow! Did I really say that? ;-) I'll offer up a laptop for a debian install, but it was pretty tricky when i put redhat on there. Jen

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Re: [Alug] tty puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

Adam Bower wrote: >It sounds like control characters are getting written to the console or >something? try booting it in single user mode and see if it lets you login >then? OK, thanks for all the comments on this - turns out it is a hardware problem; bios is all screwed up too - graphics card, maybe, or a BUS thing. I'll have to try and get my hands on some other bits when i'm back. Perhaps leaving it running overnight caused bad connections to loosen further if they warmed up. The errorlog postgres thing must be a coincidental error causing a red herring . Jenny.

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Re: Window managers // was Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 24 Aug '01

24 Aug '01

jo(a)yee-ha.demon.co.uk writes: > While I see your point, and mostly agree with it, I can understand that > some people who spend a lot of time at their conputer may be of the > opinion that it may as well be a nice environment to look at, right? Why > do people decorate their houses? Well, that's what X gave you a root window for. With all due respect, <rant>most theming equates more to taking all the door handles off and replacing them with a small button 20cm above the bottom hinge-side corner of the door than giving it a new coat of paint. Yes, I put graphics on my root window (xplanet with cloud maps at home, random web images from a script I wrote at work) and change the colours of various parts of the system. I even skin gkrellm. I don't change the way all controls work every time, though.</rant> > As for spare CPU cycles, I thought everyone was running seti@home these > days.. ;) distributed.net, surely?

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Re: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On 23 Aug 2001 22:06:50 +0100 MJ Ray wrote: > John Woodard <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> writes: > > > > 1. John Woodard -- "Why I can't install Debian" > > Mine was more of a question than a talk. I fear the talk would be > rather > > short along the lines of "I can't install deb coz I'm a total > plonker!" at > > leat in the eyes of MJR I am. :-) > > Oh, OK, we're looking for a new talk, people ;-) > > A list of problems might be a good challenge to end the block on, > though. I'm sure with the hard drive swapping, there's more than > enough to draw on for 5 mins or so. > > And no, John, you're not a plonker from where I'm standing. There's > someone far ahead in that contest ;-) /me wonders who you are refering to here :o) Thanks D > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] tty puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Jonathan McDowell wrote: >Pet hate. It's Jonathan. That's the most common way of spelling the >name. There are some Jonathon's but they're vastly in the minority. Sorry about that. >> Will I have to crash out here? Bum. >If you have Magic SysRQ support compiled in try: >ALT-SysRQ-r >and see if that helps. If it doesn't: >ALT-SysRQ-s ALT-SysRQ-u >to sync and remount reonly the disks. >Or if you can log in remotely: >reset < /dev/tty1 >perhaps. No ctl-alt-del, no response from ALT-SysRQ-*, can't log in remotely, connection refused. Can't ping from other boxes. Can't log in blind as no response from many keys, including the "n" key which all my passwords contain. Cold reboot and box is still behaving the same - i.e. can't do anything with it. I don't understand - I go home leaving it switched on, come back next morning and it is kaput. Don't tell me there is no solution except a reinstall? Why me? I think I'll give up computers and take up the bass again. :-( Or take up absailing. Bricklaying. Cycling. Knitting. Jen.

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Re: [Alug] tty puzzle
by John Seago 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Perhaps you should try Slackware, I understand from having bought the disks and scanned the various web-sites on installation and configuration, that it's even more complicated/difficult than Debian, (I've put it to one side until I understand what I'm trying to do with what I've got). Note that the one recent mention of Slackware 8 was from someone who wanted to buy it with the manual! It could provide a challenge even greater than abseiling! And no don't ask me I can't even work out how to get at my second disk! John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:00:28 +0100 xsprite(a)bigfoot.com wrote: > on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:11:05AM +0000, David Freeman scribbled: > > > > Web server of anything outside of a firewall == OpenBSD > > > Why OpenBSD? > It doesn't even have a mature firewalling system at the momement, let > alone an > easy to use isakmp daemon. > Oh, and they've also dropped qmail, djbdns, publicfile, as well as ipf. Security, lack of wholes. > Even Linux has security-orientated code audits performed on it now. > So how is it more secure/a better choice? I wan't aware that Linux had audits like this. Maybe Linux would be a better choice. > It's hellishly slow on most low spec stuff that you would normally > love to use > as a dedicated firewall/small webserver. A p100 with 8 megs of ram > crawls under > openbsd. The task scheduler pretty crappy. The same box flies under > NetBSD. > Oh, and NetBSD runs under about 44 architectures. But how well audited is netBSD? how many wholes are there in it? Thanks D > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On 23 Aug 2001 22:05:12 +0100 MJ Ray wrote: > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > > > I know you need to do an exam for a VHF license (got mine soon) but for > > 802.11 you don't it sits in the Industrial, Scientific and Medical (ISM) > > 802.11? Airsnort! see http://lwn.net/ security section amongst > others. Hey get with the picture, WEP was cracked ages ago. It is known to be easy to crack. As for Airsnort its just a free version of a package I saw for windows which did all the same stuff. If you run 802.11 then you need to run IPSec over the top, its the only way of making it secure. Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5
by MJ Ray 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

John Woodard <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> writes: > > 1. John Woodard -- "Why I can't install Debian" > Mine was more of a question than a talk. I fear the talk would be rather > short along the lines of "I can't install deb coz I'm a total plonker!" at > leat in the eyes of MJR I am. :-) Oh, OK, we're looking for a new talk, people ;-) A list of problems might be a good challenge to end the block on, though. I'm sure with the hard drive swapping, there's more than enough to draw on for 5 mins or so. And no, John, you're not a plonker from where I'm standing. There's someone far ahead in that contest ;-)

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Re: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:14:13 +0100 (BST) Adam Bower wrote: > On 23 Aug 2001, MJ Ray wrote: > > > As those of you who have been to Syleham will know, it is an excellent > > venue for talks. Would someone like to suggest a theme for the > > meeting so that we can run 2 or 3 short 10 to 15 minute talks with > > questions? Other than that, the normal demos will take place. > > I did promise to do a talk on the Debian package management systems apt > and dselect, and the differences between stable, testing and unstable of > Debian. I will also try and talk about the Debian policy of free and > Non-free although most of it will be word for word from the Faq. /me is annoyed at not being there. > I will try and sort this out after the Linux Beer Wanderung, and there > should be photos of the LBW also. If we sobber up and you get that square peg (pile of kit) in the round hole (60L backpack) > I think there may also be the chance to watch NetBSD getting > (well attempting) installed on some old Vax kit! but this depends on other > outside circumstances. That depends on when you pick my vaxes up from cam! As I wont be there I think we can leave this till the next one I can make. Taking a vax on the train sounds like fun :o) Thanks D > Adam > -- > This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed > Adam > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5
by MJ Ray 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

"John Woodard" <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> writes: > Announce ALUG 2001.5 Point of order, it's 2001.6. I know 2001.5 isn't on the site, but that's Mr Freeman's fault, I think. Can you give us until tomorrow to get this web page online? > are there any I have missed? uklinux.linuxnbsd on news.uklinux.net? As those of you who have been to Syleham will know, it is an excellent venue for talks. Would someone like to suggest a theme for the meeting so that we can run 2 or 3 short 10 to 15 minute talks with questions? Other than that, the normal demos will take place. John, how much is the venue hire this time? Is it more if the bar is opened, or do they need to take a certain amount?

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On 21 Aug 2001 23:46:10 +0100 MJ Ray wrote: > Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > > > At the end of the day, the best technical solution is not necessarly the > > best solution [...] > > No, marketing has far too much influence. Why do you think we're > heading up the creek at a rate of knots? Marketing have an awful lot to answer for. I still don't understand how the IBM PC compatable is beating the MAC? > > I don't want people thinking that the community is arguing amoungst > > itself as to which OS/distro is technically superiour. > > But we *are* arguing about what is technically superior and it > encourages innovation. If we try to deny that it happens, people will > be repulsed when they discover these arguments going on. We need to > set the agenda, not just try to answer others' points. Darwinasim in action! The arguing helps the distros to evolve. > > Use what is a good solution for the job, and if that is slackware, > > mandrake, *bsd, suse, debian then so be it.. > > Bah, pragmatist. Does your freedom and the benefits it brings mean > nothing to you? (Notice that you include two freedom-impaired systems > in your list...) HURRAH! IMHO freedom is the most important thing, I now only use free software on my box (except nutscrape as mozilla doesn't work properly quite yet) Also before someone says I am being two faced for saying Novell for file serving, I would like to point out the only time I am going to be doing so would be for money in which case I am kind of prepared to install a non-free package, but only when it is not possible with a free package. One of these days I will do a bench test with linux verses Novell 5. Thanks D > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Alug web site - back to Apache
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:57:07 GMT Martyn Drake wrote: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:13:06 -0400 Alexis Lee wrote: > > > There's a Perl CGI script called FormMail which lets you get this > > kind of thing very easily. If you go to support.nicnames.net they > > have a lovely page about it somewhere. > > I'll probably end up using a script that I've knocked up in PHP to do the > job. However, I fear that I could be mugged by the rest of the team if I > integrated PHP into the Alug site ;) **shudder** > Also, I've now decided that I'm no longer scrapping Zeus (and thus no > cheapo license - if you do want a cheapo license then go and see > http://www.zeus.com as they're currently doing them half price which is > actually pretty good deal), and thus Apache deployment has been postponed. WHAT! BUT WHY! Apache isn't that difficult to configure, even I did it! Surely you can try again. > The biggest problem with Zeus - for me anyway - is that it makes you > incredibly lazy at administering normal Apache boxes - you just get used > to that web interface :( I sat at the shell prompt this evening in > readiness for migrating to 1.3.19 and thought - "Sod this, Zeus has a > better approach to all of this" and abandoned the idea. No comment. Thanks D > Regards, > > Martyn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Alug web site - back to Apache
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:00:10 +0100 "Martyn Drake" wrote: > Hi, > > This is a general announcement to say that there will be a brief outage to > the Alug web site (and for that matter - any other web site currently > hosted > with myself) while I convert from Zeus to Apache. The principle > reason for > this is that it's not going to be cost effective for me to run the Zeus > server anymore - particularly now that Zeus have moved over to an annual > support contract for the most part. If anybody is looking to use the Zeus > server in their organisation and would like a cheap license - then contact > me ;) Hurrah! I see a certain list admins (Mark, stop gloating) opinions of you raising as I type. A free web server thats how we like it :o) > Therefore, it's back to good old Apache, hopefully as from tomorrow > evening. > I'll be running version 1.3.19 with all the trimmings, including PHP 4.0.6 > for anybody that needs it, and mysql support (which may infuriate a few). PHP **shudder**, MySQL **Shudder Shudder** Are you running the machines as a load of virtual servers? I have just been told the firewall at uni only lets out port 80 and 443 which is kind of annoying. > With regards to the Postgres database that has been suggested - I will > definately install this within the next couple of weeks when I get a > chance > to sit down and play it with properly. I'll then open it up for anybody > that wants a fiddle with it. Fantastic. <fx action="add another beer the one I already owe Martyn"> > As stated before - if any members want web space/email - just shout. I'll > try to set everything up within 24 hours depending on what's going on > (I've > my wedding to plan (invites still going out, need to book marquee, etc, > etc.) amongst many, many other things). Can recommend this, very cool. > Heck, maybe even create a small form on the main Alug web site > that'll email > me the details of requested web hosting and it'll email me the details for > processing. What do people think? Thanks D > Regards, > > Martyn > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Re: alug request rejected
by Martyn Drake 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

What I'm going to suggest is that maybe the Alug could have an area on the web site or even FTP space (not anonymous however!) so that members can share files easily without having to use the mailing list for this sort of thing (i.e. just point the URL in the body of the message). Regards, Martyn On 23 Aug 2001 11:44:41 +0100 MJ Ray wrote: > Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > > > Sorry guys, you're not going to be allowed to review this. > > They could if you posted it in accordance with the rules. > > > Could it not just append MIME text/plain to the end of the > > message? > > It wasn't marked as text/plain anyway. > > Maybe the move to mailman2 on lists.alug.org.uk (may happen > tonight) might fix this. Anyone care to test by sending an > attachment to social(a)lists.alug.org.uk (just one now)? > > MJR

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Re: [Alug] Re: alug request rejected
by MJ Ray 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > Sorry guys, you're not going to be allowed to review this. They could if you posted it in accordance with the rules. > Could it not just append MIME text/plain to the end of the message? It wasn't marked as text/plain anyway. Maybe the move to mailman2 on lists.alug.org.uk (may happen tonight) might fix this. Anyone care to test by sending an attachment to social(a)lists.alug.org.uk (just one now)? MJR

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Re: Window managers // was Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > > I still don't understand why non-hackers like E so much. Surely the > Wash your mouth out. Now let's see: spend CPU on making pretty pictures or spend CPU on doing useful stuff... I know which I choose. E is bad for the environment, using all that extra electricity on machines that would otherwise have idle time. ;-) > But the point is that nothing is perfect for everyone (arguably anyone). > So the best one can do is to supply a good design, then give people the > tools to turn it into their private utopia. What E itself does is provide essentially no interface design, though. It's not even a good starting point. People still have the tools anyway...

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Re: alug request rejected
by Alexis Lee 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk wrote: > has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the I wrote: > Attached is the current jobs.xml. Have a look, it's not scary. > If anyone would like to be put down for any of the categories (Editors, > Hosts, Experts, Others), mail me. Sorry guys, you're not going to be allowed to review this. Could it not just append MIME text/plain to the end of the message? Bah humbug. Never mind, it'll be on the web tomorrow, have a look then. Alexis

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Excellent 'Doze piss-take!
by Laurie Brown 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

You people will really like this! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/21211.html Cheers, Laurie.

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Re: [Alug] tty puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Jo wrote: >So, stay up all night watching it and see what it does ;) Jo, you are such a comfort in times of need.

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Window managers // was Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > As am I, I would merely suggest blackbox over E on non-decent > computers. And E has those extra features that make things a bit > comfier than blackbox. [...] I still don't understand why non-hackers like E so much. Surely the only attraction is that you can write a bit of code to totally change the user interface and force you to re-learn it all? Then again, if the interface is the best possible one at the start, there would be no need to rewrite it... configurability is a poor substitute for a good design. I'm currently using a very simple window management setup. Windows just have a bar along their top edge, which contains the title. You grab it with the left button to move them, click with the middle to shade the window, or the left to sink the window behind all others. There's a box at the right-hand end. A left click minimises, middle resizes the window and right destroys it. There is a small panel at the bottom, mostly like a task bar, but with up/down buttons to flip desktops and edge buttons to hide it. There is a small corner panel at top-left, containing icons to start programs, although I'm likely to get rid of that and start using an Apps folder again soon. This is done with sapphire and rox... both devel lists are regular love-ins and you can find both at sourceforge.

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Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Andrew Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Hi Alexis, Is this meant for the list? > This is pretty much my view too. I cant be responsible for them all, > but would gladly share it with someone else. So probably alternating > each one is best? There are two parts, really: the venue and the promotion. If one does one and the other the other, it should go wonderfully. > And I dont mind who does October first. Are you a student there? Which > year? Im year 2 sys student. After a quick look, im guessing this > might be you? > http://www.uea.ac.uk/menu/staff_and_students/enrol/ueanetwork/SYS/9953647.h… That made me panic, as that URL wouldn't be restricted. The correct URL is http://www.uea.ac.uk/menu/staff_and_students/enrol/ueanetwk/SYS/9953647.html and you need either a UEA central login or a sick VPN like mine to see it. I still think that stuff being published is an invasion of privacy.

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Re: [Alug] Alug web site - back to Apache
by MJ Ray 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

Martyn Drake <martyn(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:13:06 -0400 Alexis Lee wrote: > > There's a Perl CGI script called FormMail which lets you get this > > kind of thing very easily. If you go to support.nicnames.net they > > have a lovely page about it somewhere. I don't think that this was originally sent to the list, else I would have felt compelled to point out that there are many very buggy versions of formmail out there which allow all sorts of nasties to be done to your server.

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Re: [Alug] Website
by David Freeman 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:56:45 -0400 Alexis Lee wrote: > Hiya, > I'm going to be webmonking for ALUG soon, so as a first step could > I have nominations for people who do stuff for ALUG. Is that webmonk as in perl monk or web monkeying with a missing ey? Anyway, good luck! :o) > Currently I have Mark and I as web editors, Freeman as bookmonkey > and Adam as FAQ maintainer. If the venue organisers would like their > names to go on the jobs list as well as on the individual venue pages, > drop me a mail. I am the book monkey, also professional sceptic and also put me down for wireless monkey. > Also I would like to compile a list of definitive web references for > various things. I have a few programming language ones (Java, C, PHP, > ASP) and a few web ones (HTML, CSS, neither perfect). Does this sound > a good idea? It probably isn't a good idea to start linking to compile > instructions, since we'd end up having a link to every cool project on > the web. C == The new testiment/Bible/'C Programming Language' by Kernighan and Richie Java == Java in a nutshell, Thinking in Java, Core Java HTML == http://werbach.com/barebones/ PHP == /dev/null Ask me specifics and I can help. > Speaking of which, one of my .sig quotes is a list of a few cool > things I've found. Would this make a good page (with a broken links > disclaimer at the top, and lots of contributions)? Focus on utilities > that open up new areas (IE expect, cron/at) rather than apps which > merely do their job well (IE mozilla, IMHO). Go ahead, could be interesting > Heck, maybe an article discussing the perceived merits of each distro? > If we could get an advocate from each distro, an article would come > together quickly. Note I wish to focus purely on why one ought to use > distro X, rather than not use distro Y. <fx action="light blue touch paper and retire to safe distance"> Why not add which editor, browser, window manager, shell, mail client etc... :o) Thanks D > Alexis > -- > "All programmers are optimists" - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. > Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. > "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that" > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Website
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

PHP stuff: http://www.php.net/tut.php http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/PHP/SoothinglySeamless/ http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tutorial4.html http://www.phpbuilder.com/ Downloadable books : linux programming and VIM http://www.newriders.com/opl/ Debian guide http://www.newriders.com/debian/html/noframes/debian-tutorial.html Linux tips http://www.scrounge.org/index.html#linux Samba http://infobase.informit.com/linux/content/bookframe.html?0672316099 TomCat/Apache HowTo http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-3.2-doc/tomcat-apache-howto.html#ht…

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sabcmd
by oms101＠freeuk.com 23 Aug '01

23 Aug '01

could you please put sabcmd in the cvs system as then it will be simpler to setup and get started with the web site. If this is a bad idea due to the size of sabcmd why because we have all got to use it to produce alug web pages. so it might as well come all in one peace. Owen Date: 23-Aug-01 Time: 00:24:08

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:02:53 +0100 (BST) linux user stuff wrote: > On Sun 19 Aug, David Freeman wrote: > > On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:41:29 +0100 (BST) "D.I. Redhouse" wrote: > [snip] > > > Possibly my least interesting experience to date was trying to > work out > > > why `the internet isn't working' via mobile phone whilst standing > on top > > > of a Bronze Age barrow somewhere in the Fens. > > > > Have you tried using a real networking technique, if you can get a > little > > bit of height and some big twigs yoy could use 1-11Mbps wireless > ethernet > > to connect these up, we have had success with over 8 miles per link! > > I saw this being setup at the only meet I've attended, at the UEA, > but didn't > manage to find out any detail. In company with another Linux user that > occasionally lurks here, I attend meetings of another local computer group > and this seems like it would be useful for us. If this isn't the > right place > for the detail, perhaps you could email me privately. What do you want to know? I am thinking of righting something for the website on this, but I have been busy righting my first RFC "IP over Liquid Beverage Containers" of late so haven't had much time. If you want to forward me some questions you want answered I will add them as FAQ and also answer them. Oh and BTW it was me who did the stuff at the UEA. Thanks D > Thanks. > > -- > __ __| |_ __ __ .------------------------------------------. > / _/ _` \ V V / | mailto:linux@wymondham.demon.co.uk | > \__\__,_|\_/\_/ |__________________________________________| > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Alug web site - back to Apache
by Martyn Drake 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:13:06 -0400 Alexis Lee wrote: > There's a Perl CGI script called FormMail which lets you get this > kind of thing very easily. If you go to support.nicnames.net they > have a lovely page about it somewhere. I'll probably end up using a script that I've knocked up in PHP to do the job. However, I fear that I could be mugged by the rest of the team if I integrated PHP into the Alug site ;) Also, I've now decided that I'm no longer scrapping Zeus (and thus no cheapo license - if you do want a cheapo license then go and see http://www.zeus.com as they're currently doing them half price which is actually pretty good deal), and thus Apache deployment has been postponed. The biggest problem with Zeus - for me anyway - is that it makes you incredibly lazy at administering normal Apache boxes - you just get used to that web interface :( I sat at the shell prompt this evening in readiness for migrating to 1.3.19 and thought - "Sod this, Zeus has a better approach to all of this" and abandoned the idea. Regards, Martyn

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Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. (fwd)
by Adam Bower 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Hi all, Just got this mail in my inbox, so it is now on for May. I think we will organise an outing a bit nearer the time. Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. Dear Visitor, Thank you for registering for LINUX EXPO BIRMINGHAM. Please note that the show has been RE-SCHEDULED from 12th-13th September 2001 to 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. The show will still take place at the NEC and will have exactly the same focus, dedicated to GNU/Linux and Open Source Solutions. There is no need to register again - we will re-register you automatically for the 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. Apologies for any inconvenience caused by re-scheduling the show. We look forward to seeing you in May for a high-quality show! Yours Sacha Dunas CEO Sky Events / Linux Expo Tél : 0143456600 Fax : 0143459244 Portable : 0672802604 Email : sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com Linux Expo 2002 Amsterdam - 19 - 20 February Paris - 30 - 31 & 1 February Madrid - 3 - 4 April Sao Paulo - 15 - 16 May Birmingham - 29 - 30 May Milan - June Sky Events 12 avenue de Corbera 75012 Paris

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Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Alexis Lee <alexis(a)turton.com> writes: > Must say I've never heard of ae. Is it _really_ simple? I mentioned Pico > because literally any idiot can use it (well, if they figure out ^X means > CTRL-X). ae and easyedit are both very simple and easy to use. PICO is hardly *that* good and the odd licence means it shouldn't be mentioned in polite society any more. jpico (joe's pico emulation) is an improvement for people that can't/won't move onto a real emacs yet.

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Re: [Alug] tty puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Jonathon McDowell wrote: >> If I leave my debian box on, I come in in the morning to find the >> screen displaying erratic debugging messages to do with pg_indexes and >> suchlike, with letters omitted, where I had left the login prompt. >At a guess you have postgres installed and PGDEBUG is not set to zero >and POSTGRES_LOG isn't set in /etc/postgresql/postmaster.init Thanks, Jonathon, this could well be it. It seems to have made the box go crazy, - all the consoles look like miniature galaxies and half the keyboard letters won't respond, meaning i can't log in, or shutdown cleanly. Will I have to crash out here? Bum. Jenny.

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[Alasdair Kergon <agk@arachsys.com>] [lugmaster] FW: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002.
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:56:46 +0100 From: Alasdair Kergon <agk(a)arachsys.com> To: UK Linux User Groups <lugmaster(a)lists.lug.org.uk> Subject: [lugmaster] FW: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. Clashes with SANE (Maastricht). Alasdair ----- Forwarded message from Sacha Dunas <sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com> ----- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:36:19 +0200 From: "Sacha Dunas" <sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com> Subject: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. Dear Visitor, Thank you for registering for LINUX EXPO BIRMINGHAM. Please note that the show has been RE-SCHEDULED from 12th-13th September 2001 to 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. The show will still take place at the NEC and will have exactly the same focus, dedicated to GNU/Linux and Open Source Solutions. There is no need to register again - we will re-register you automatically for the 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. Apologies for any inconvenience caused by re-scheduling the show. We look forward to seeing you in May for a high-quality show! Yours Sacha Dunas CEO Sky Events / Linux Expo T?l : 0143456600 Fax : 0143459244 Portable : 0672802604 Email : sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com Linux Expo 2002 Amsterdam - 19 - 20 February Paris - 30 - 31 & 1 February Madrid - 3 - 4 April Sao Paulo - 15 - 16 May Birmingham - 29 - 30 May Milan - June Sky Events 12 avenue de Corbera 75012 Paris ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- End forwarded message -----

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Alug web site - back to Apache
by Martyn Drake 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Hi, This is a general announcement to say that there will be a brief outage to the Alug web site (and for that matter - any other web site currently hosted with myself) while I convert from Zeus to Apache. The principle reason for this is that it's not going to be cost effective for me to run the Zeus server anymore - particularly now that Zeus have moved over to an annual support contract for the most part. If anybody is looking to use the Zeus server in their organisation and would like a cheap license - then contact me ;) Therefore, it's back to good old Apache, hopefully as from tomorrow evening. I'll be running version 1.3.19 with all the trimmings, including PHP 4.0.6 for anybody that needs it, and mysql support (which may infuriate a few). With regards to the Postgres database that has been suggested - I will definately install this within the next couple of weeks when I get a chance to sit down and play it with properly. I'll then open it up for anybody that wants a fiddle with it. As stated before - if any members want web space/email - just shout. I'll try to set everything up within 24 hours depending on what's going on (I've my wedding to plan (invites still going out, need to book marquee, etc, etc.) amongst many, many other things). Heck, maybe even create a small form on the main Alug web site that'll email me the details of requested web hosting and it'll email me the details for processing. What do people think? Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Website
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

mjray writes: >xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: >> more? >scheme, http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html >ruby, http://www.rubycentral.com/ I'll volunteer to take all URLs sent and update the booklist/sitelist I did, if no-one else is...? Let me know if anyone else is doing this, so we don't duplicate work, otherwise send them on over. Jen.

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tty puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

All If I leave my debian box on, I come in in the morning to find the screen displaying erratic debugging messages to do with pg_indexes and suchlike, with letters omitted, where I had left the login prompt. Logging into another console and typing "who" shows only the new console, tty2. Then I discover that the output display on tty2 has also become distorted, "halt" appears as "h lt" but works ok, e.g. What is this bizarre phenomenon; can I prevent it? Ta, jenny.

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Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > <fx action="light blue touch paper and retire to safe distance"> > Why not add which editor, browser, window manager, shell, mail client > etc... :o) David fails to understand "incremental" (or write XML for that matter)?

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Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: > more? scheme, http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html ruby, http://www.rubycentral.com/

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:05 +0100 Neill Newman wrote: > Laurie Brown wrote: > > > > > > That's one reason I'm still with SuSE after all this time. They > haven't messed me about at all, > > and if beta software is in the distro, they ensure one is aware of > it. IMO, for a newbie, SuSE > > can't be beaten. Every time I've been near RH, OTOH... > > > this isn't aimed at one person, or one distro, just a general blow of > steam.. ignore if wanted.... I like these rants great fun and good thread starters. any wwy here goes. > <rant> > > I recommend Suse to all my friends who are home users, but in commercial > environments I use redhat. This is for various reasons; I've been using > it long enough to know what goes where, I can setup/automate large scale > systems very easily, it runs with very little management when I have set > it up, and finally there are some non-technical issues like the managers > and bean counters not having heard of suse or debian. There is more of a > chance that they have heard of redhat... WHAT! SUSE is a complete nightmare, never did get ppp to work on it, and as for yast, well yast is the practical alternative to real unix > Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but for the last few years I have never had any > problems with Rh.. pre 6.2 was a different story though, but that's 3 > years old now ;) yes you are weird but so are most here so we don't hold that against you :o) > I was in a heated discussion with friend recently saying how unstable M$ > stuff is and he said that win2k is very stable, and that I was using the > same reasoning and logic from win95 to judge win2k.. I have to admit > that he was right... No he's wrong! uptill windows 9X they where very crap, win NT is still crashable and I managed on many occasions when at college to wipe it out. Win2K is getting so bloated its un believable, It requires so many resources it is unbelievable. Also WinNT took me 2 weeks to install on two Compaq servers, both failed, Peanut linux went on in under 5 minutes! > Now I'm not saying that we should all switch to winblows, but I am > saying that just because things didn't work in teh past, the past > shouldn't be used to judge the present... the first version of Suse I > used was a compete nightmare (version 5.1), and I hated it with a > passion. But now I am seriously considering giving 7.2 a try... I want > encrypted file system out of the box, and it provides the features I > want, so I'll make the switch... SUSE is horrible. > At the end of the day, the best technical solution is not necessarly the > best solution, M$ is a shining exmaple of how to do things that are > technically wrong, but how to provide a good solution to people's > problems </me hides under rock for the second time today> Oi, make room under this rock, some others need to hide here as well. MS is an example of good marketting and skilful FUD! > I believe that what we alternative OS types should be doing is promoting > the use of alternative systems. I want people to realise that they do > have a choice in linux/BSD/other, and that the community can support > them when they need help. I don't want people thinking that the > community is arguing amoungst itself as to which OS/distro is > technically superiour. Use what is a good solution for the job, and if > that is slackware, mandrake, *bsd, suse, debian then so be it.. Don;t > forget that somebody has to look after these machines, if a newbie is > given a slackware CD then I would consider that an incorrect move, even > if it is better than the rest... Ok, If I had to list what I would use for each task it goes like this Web server of anything outside of a firewall == OpenBSD Desktop boxen == Debian, I have yet to find such an easy ppp setup file server == Novell, hands down this is what it does best! Idiot friendly for newbie's to computers == Apple kit simple as that! Windows IMHO is good at nothing and bad at most things. > Oh well, back to the land of reality ;) Why, reality is shite, trust me on this :o) Thanks D > </rant> > > Sz > > -- > Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ > Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368 > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Website
by Alexis Lee 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Hiya, I'm going to be webmonking for ALUG soon, so as a first step could I have nominations for people who do stuff for ALUG. Currently I have Mark and I as web editors, Freeman as bookmonkey and Adam as FAQ maintainer. If the venue organisers would like their names to go on the jobs list as well as on the individual venue pages, drop me a mail. Also I would like to compile a list of definitive web references for various things. I have a few programming language ones (Java, C, PHP, ASP) and a few web ones (HTML, CSS, neither perfect). Does this sound a good idea? It probably isn't a good idea to start linking to compile instructions, since we'd end up having a link to every cool project on the web. Speaking of which, one of my .sig quotes is a list of a few cool things I've found. Would this make a good page (with a broken links disclaimer at the top, and lots of contributions)? Focus on utilities that open up new areas (IE expect, cron/at) rather than apps which merely do their job well (IE mozilla, IMHO). Heck, maybe an article discussing the perceived merits of each distro? If we could get an advocate from each distro, an article would come together quickly. Note I wish to focus purely on why one ought to use distro X, rather than not use distro Y. Alexis -- "All programmers are optimists" - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that"

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > At the end of the day, the best technical solution is not necessarly the > best solution [...] No, marketing has far too much influence. Why do you think we're heading up the creek at a rate of knots? > I don't want people thinking that the community is arguing amoungst > itself as to which OS/distro is technically superiour. But we *are* arguing about what is technically superior and it encourages innovation. If we try to deny that it happens, people will be repulsed when they discover these arguments going on. We need to set the agenda, not just try to answer others' points. > Use what is a good solution for the job, and if that is slackware, > mandrake, *bsd, suse, debian then so be it.. Bah, pragmatist. Does your freedom and the benefits it brings mean nothing to you? (Notice that you include two freedom-impaired systems in your list...)

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ARM and a leg
by David Freeman 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

I know we have a couple of people who know a bit about all things embedded, can any advise on what chips successfully run the ARM linux? is it something that runs only on the Strong arm processor such as the intel SA1100 (used in the IPaq) or will the ARM Thumb processors run it as well? Also how many people do we have on the list who are experienced in Electrical engineering? Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:41:29 +0100 (BST) "D.I. Redhouse" wrote: > On 16 Aug 2001, MJ Ray wrote: > > > Mark Elliss <mark.elliss(a)btinternet.com> writes: > > > > > Ok I'll stop lurking and introduce myself too. > > > > Hooray! Oh, and hello too. > > Ooohhh, OK. > > My name is David. I provide computing support to a humanities department > at a University somewhere in south-east England. Hello, welcome, from your cam.ac.uk address I am assuming you are from Cambridge Uni. > I administer Netware, NT/95/98/2000, Solaris, Linux, OpenBSD and > Macintrash boxen. None of them very well. Also, anything with a plug on > it. Cool, Netware still lives, just out of interest which of the above is your favourite? > I am a big fan of Oracle Applications, NT Roaming Profiles, and IIS. <fx action="shudders"> > A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I was a Field > Archaeologist, and have been responsible for introducing 22 tonne tracked > excavators to some of Britain's less interesting Scheduled Ancient > monuments. I'm not going to ask. > Possibly my least interesting experience to date was trying to work out > why `the internet isn't working' via mobile phone whilst standing on top > of a Bronze Age barrow somewhere in the Fens. Have you tried using a real networking technique, if you can get a little bit of height and some big twigs yoy could use 1-11Mbps wireless ethernet to connect these up, we have had success with over 8 miles per link! > On occasion I work in central (i.e. the sticks of) Sicily. I /was/ going > to use this experience as the basis of an article on computing in the > field. I /was/ expecting to do some nifty juggling with English modems, > the Italian phone system and NAT/IP Masquerading, but when I arrived a > very nice man just connected me to his 100Mbps switched network. Which was > nice. Perhaps you can lend advice to a poor student who has be accused of being a wireless network expert and given the task of connecting a field somewhere in the bottom left hand corner of belguim a network connection for a week so a large quantity of geeks in various states of soberness can connect to the web! bugger! Thanks D > -- > David Redhouse > -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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alug.org.uk domain problems
by Alexis Lee 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

(copied to list in case it doesn't get to you) Hi Martyn, I'm behind a router at work, but I can't see the alug.org.uk domain. anglian.lug.org.uk works fine. Can't use CVS or web from it. Alexis -- "All programmers are optimists" - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that"

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Re: Meeting report?
by Earl Brannigan 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

Hi Dave, >Notable by absence >BJ >Jen >Jo >Earl >Tarquin Sorry, on hols in Turkey.... V Hot, didn't go near a computer all week. Cheers Earl

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by Laurie Brown 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

21/08/01 11:00:56, Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote: >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, D.I. Redhouse wrote: > >> Didn't it go through a period of being quite badly behind most of the >> other distributions? > >More like other distros try and race each other into having the most >unstable software with the biggest version number in! One of the That's one reason I'm still with SuSE after all this time. They haven't messed me about at all, and if beta software is in the distro, they ensure one is aware of it. IMO, for a newbie, SuSE can't be beaten. Every time I've been near RH, OTOH... Cheers, Laurie. --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

I'd second you on that one Laurie. I started using Redhat since the dawn of time, but SuSE became much more stable so I switched over to it instead. I do have Redhat and Mandrake systems, but for *real* production SuSE is always the way! Andi Laurie Brown <laurie(a)brownowl.com>@stu.uea.ac.uk on 21/08/2001 11:25:00 Sent by: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: Subject: Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions) 21/08/01 11:00:56, Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote: >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, D.I. Redhouse wrote: > >> Didn't it go through a period of being quite badly behind most of the >> other distributions? > >More like other distros try and race each other into having the most >unstable software with the biggest version number in! One of the That's one reason I'm still with SuSE after all this time. They haven't messed me about at all, and if beta software is in the distro, they ensure one is aware of it. IMO, for a newbie, SuSE can't be beaten. Every time I've been near RH, OTOH... Cheers, Laurie. --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 --------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

"D.I. Redhouse" <dir21(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> writes: [...] > Mandrake's OK, but part of me wishes I'd stuck with my RedHat 6.2 install > and tried to bodge ViaVoice on to that. I have to ask, seeing as you appear from the Cam: have you tried Debian yet?

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

"D.I. Redhouse" <dir21(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> writes: > Didn't it go through a period of being quite badly behind most of the > other distributions? Well, the "stable" releases tend to be just that: tried and tested stable versions of software rather than just whatever they managed to get to compile on time. If you just need the latest version of one package, then you can just say apt-get source packagename cd package-version debuild binary with an appropriate configuration, of course. Stable still has the benefit of security updates being made available very quickly, although you have to edit the config to enable that. If you're feeling helpful then you can help debug the "testing" set, or if you want *everything* to be the latest and don't mind the occasional goof, "unstable" is for you. > Although equally it could be something to do with the fact that a Debian > user round these parts once described/denounced RedHat as the Windows 95 > of Linux distributions, and I developed a general theory concerning Debian > users. Well, Debian users are allowed to express themselves as badly as any other Linux user. What was probably meant is either that their build quality really isn't as good as it should be, or that RedHat's config tools are rather over-friendly and will happily obliterate any changes you make, while others fall over if you set things up the normal way.

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LPI Certification
by John Seago 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

There was a query raised as to the costs of the Linux Professional Institute Exam. Details can be found at :- http://www.lpi.org/ I understand the costs are $100 US for the Exam and a registration fee. The nearest Exam centres are reported to me as being at Ipswich and Peterborough. John Seago (I've got the time to browse!)

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Re: [Alug] UEA Meetings
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

How about: a September meeting organised by John Woodard at Syleham an October meeting organised by Alexis Lee at UEA a November meeting organised by Simon Parkes at Red Lodge ?

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

"D.I. Redhouse" <dir21(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> writes: > My name is David. I provide computing support to a humanities department > at a University somewhere in south-east England. It's getting hard to keep getting more excited... but hello to you too! Any more lurkers wanting to break cover? :-))) Hmz... HHGTTG and Fast Show I spotted there... any others?

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Future Meetings
by John Seago 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

I wish to enter special pleading in the matter of future meetings. whilst I can walk for short distances, and even manage a small number of stairs, (though not necessarily at the end of the day, it would be much easier for me were the venue to be wheelchair accessible. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Weekly IRC reminder
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

How about changing the from address too? A> markj@cloaked.freeserve.co.uk@stu.uea.ac.uk on 20/08/2001 10:13:38 Sent by: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] Weekly IRC reminder Yay, more editing! Can the following changes be made, please, if everyone agrees? On 20 Aug, Neill Newman wrote: > > This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that > there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. IRC not irc (well, at least be consistent). > The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the > #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more > info on the openprojects network. Perhaps add the following: Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". > Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and > Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. I don't think ircII has been popular for a long time. I'd recommend EPIC in place of it and BitchX, personally. Is kIRC still around? > > Unix > > http://www.bitchx.com Drop this one. It's nasty in the default settings, IMO. > http://www.xchat.org > http://freshmeat.net Add trailing /s. > http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Drop the ()s. EPIC is a pretty good client, even if Brett does say so... _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: [Alug] The web site
by MJ Ray 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > > Don't exaggerate: there were four errors. > http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anglian.lug.org.uk%2F&do… > 17 at my count.. some might be recursive though... DOCTYPE is not inline because sablotron does not support that, as far as I can tell (although I'll try bludgeoning it later). Please adjust your validator setting accordingly.

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Re: [Fwd: [Alug] ARM and a leg]
by jo＠yee-ha.demon.co.uk 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

Straight from the horse's mouth... Jo -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Alug] ARM and a leg] Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:28:22 +0100 From: Alan.Hunter(a)arm.com To: jo(a)yee-ha.demon.co.uk Well anything with an MMU should work so ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926EJS Intel StrongARM Intel XScale Alan. On 20/08/2001 09:01:45 jo wrote: >Care to comment? > > Jo > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: [Alug] ARM and a leg >Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 0:07:33 GMT >From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> >Reply-To: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> >Organization: Anglian Linux Users Group >To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > >I know we have a couple of people who know a bit about all things >embedded, can any advise on what chips successfully run the ARM linux? >is >it something that runs only on the Strong arm processor such as the >intel >SA1100 (used in the IPaq) or will the ARM Thumb processors run it as >well? > >Also how many people do we have on the list who are experienced in >Electrical engineering? > >Thanks > >D > >-- >"Your house sounds like a > fire hazard" Peter Clarke > > > > >_______________________________________________ >alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list >Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk >http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ >http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug >See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Any way to "Kick" a TCP connection back into life?
by Steve Fosdick 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

Today I had a problem when I lost network connectivity with an open TCP connecting (doing an FTP transfer). When network connectivity was restored, the TCP connection remained connected, but no data was being transmitted or received. Openning a new connection (using FTP reget) caused data transfer to recommence so there was clearly no problem talking to the remote machine. I have also had similar experience when fetching a page or image with HTTP will stall, but aborting the transfer and reloading works quickly. What I suspect is happenning here is that as a bunch or re-transmissions fail, TCP backs off for longer and longer before re-tranmitting and gets to the point that the time being waited is ridiculously long. What I would like to be able to go, both to test this theory and hopefully solve the problem of it happening, is to reset the backoff timer so it goes back to re-transmitting quickly. Does anyone now if there is way to do this on Linux? Steve.

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I've got a really old laptop
by Steve Kuo 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

I've got a really old laptop that I'm would like to find a verison of Linux (with X-windows preferably) for. Specs: 486DX33 4MB RAM B&W Screen 120Mb HDD It doesn't have to fit on disks, I can connect the 486 to an external zipdrive. ===== --------------- Steve Kuo "Windows Multitasking - Crash several programs at once, no waiting" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [Alug] I've got a really old laptop
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

Steve Kuo <drakioned(a)yahoo.co.uk> writes: > 486DX33 4MB RAM B&W Screen 120Mb HDD You may be able to get X on to it, but it will swap like crazy if you try to do much with it. At the very least, you will need to be *very* light on the memory usage. Emacs and VIM under X are out of the question ;-)

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Re: [Alug] The web site
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > Mark et al, I know that there is a lot to do, and I dont have time to do > any right now, but can I make a suggestion.. > Can the website be tested with the w3 vaildator (validator.w3.org). This > makes sure it is proper html, at the moment there are a dozen or so > errors ;(.. Don't exaggerate: there were four errors. It seems that sablotron is somewhat more primitive than luminas's tools and produces HTML 4.01 (*yuk!*) instead. One correction later, there are now no errors, at least in transitional. It shouldn't be too much work to make it pass strict if it's really needed, but that can wait a bit.

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Is this a FAQ? (Books)
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

David, why don't you write a page about the various book things, ie the library system and the discount deals? This could then be linked into the FAQ "What does ALUG do?"... Also, the meetings part of that answer should link to the meetings page and the mailing lists/IRC bit to the "Join us" page. But I'll graciously let someone else add them ;-) Thanks!

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Re: [Alug] SSH/SCP No Password
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > If it doesn't work when you set it up, try the -d option on the server > end to get a debug log from it which will tell what types of > authenciation it is trying and why they fail. [...] Any reason why that's better than doing -v on the client end? Is it really worth annoying all the users on the server? ;-)

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Re: [Alug] SSH/SCP No Password
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

"D" <dsc(a)clara.net> writes: > Anyone ever got this to work? Not sat down and tried yet but a guy I was > talking to yesterday said its harder then it looks, surely you just need the > host keys etc.. and your away. I have eval $(ssh-agent) quite early in my .xsession file. This makes sure everything in my X session knows where to find the key manager. Then using ssh-add lets me add keys to it. You generate ssh keys with ssh-keygen and have to copy the right one to the target machine's $HOME/.ssh/authorized_keys file. Other than that, it's fairly simple... ask questions if you want more than the manual pages say. I even have a VPN using slip over ssh, for when I need to appear to be on an internal network somewhere.

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Re: [Alug] The web site
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

Within 5 minutes or so of this being sent, there should be something approaching a new-look ALUG website. Start the complaints now, please. ;-)

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Re: [Alug] Next Meet
by David Freeman 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:22:15 +0100 "John Woodard" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk [mailto:alug-admin@stu.uea.ac.uk]On > > Behalf Of MJ Ray > > Sent: 17 August 2001 23:04 > > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > Subject: Re: [Alug] Next Meet > > > > Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > > > > > On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Steve Kuo wrote: > > > > I second the idea at the UEA... [...] living on campus [...] > > > Was that you just volunteering to book the room etc. then? > > > > My thoughts exactly! Seriously: I am leaving UEA and will not be able > > to book them any more, but I may still be lurking enough to be useful > > for this meeting, so it would be an ideal time to hand over organising > > UEA meetings to someone else. > > > > Steve, are you up for this? > > If we can't book the UEA I can host at Syleham if needed. BJ, Would I be right in thinking that you live a few hundred yards from Sylham? Would I also be right in thinking you have either Home highway/ISDN/unmetered web access of some kind? If so for the next meeting we could put in a small wireless link and have a network connection for the first time at Syleham! Thanks D PS can you open the bar as well? > Cheers, > BJ > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Highly regulalar inquiries
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > It got edited to read as follows: Mea culpa. If it wasn't marked as a quote, I mangled it and left Adam's byline on it. Mooohahahaha.... Seriously, I was sent an incomplete FAQ and so I marked it up and tried to get the English running smoothly. If I did anything too wrong, I'm sure Adam will switch it back in the next few days and I apologise profusely. Please... I've done the first few revisions of the web site and I'll try to help out in future... but it needs YOU to keep it going now.

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Re: [Alug] Next Meet
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

"Simon Parkes" <simon(a)sparksy.org.uk> writes: > I've lost the thread here, has the next meeting date been sorted > yet? I may be able to arrange something here at Red Lodge, [...] If you could, it would be a very welcome addition to the ALUG circuit. Steve, don't worry about the UEA venue. There should be enough people there in a couple of weeks to take care of it. Now, I think a talk or theme for the next meeting would be good...

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:25:43 +0100 (BST) Adam Bower wrote: > On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, David Freeman wrote: > > > Hello, welcome, from your cam.ac.uk address I am assuming you are from > > Cambridge Uni. > > Blimey David, that was an amazing bit of detective work ;-) Well after your detective work recently it pails into insignificaince :o) > > > A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I was a Field > > > Archaeologist, and have been responsible for introducing 22 tonne > tracked > > > excavators to some of Britain's less interesting Scheduled Ancient > > > monuments. > > > > I'm not going to ask. > > I would like to know the details, sounds like the Eddie Izard method of > archaeology! More like blitzkriege archaeology, I have images of a large JCB dumping a bucket load of soil onto the small sivve and covering that increadibly gorgeous red head archeaology student that is always present at various digs. > > Perhaps you can lend advice to a poor student who has be accused of > being > > a wireless network expert and given the task of connecting a field > > somewhere in the bottom left hand corner of belguim a network connection > > for a week so a large quantity of geeks in various states of soberness > > can connect to the web! bugger! > > Heh, you don't have to worry about this David, all you have to do is get > the wireless LAN to talk to the other bit, I can do all the Masquerade for > the campsite and the networky bits and get all the DNS working etc. > etc..... that (in answer to your question from irc last week) is what > sys-admins are for and what sys-admins do! I can tell you don't know much about radio. It is a black art I haven't mastered completely, it is not unknown to sit with a signal stoping 10' short of where you want to be whilst 1000' away you get a brilliant signal! Reminds me of a friend who was involved in york uni radio and they got a call from dubia as the signal had bounced off the ionisphere and was crystal clear in dubai! We don't need to masq or anything as far as the IP layer is concerned all you will see is one big subnet, the wireless stuff all works at the MAC layer, which is why its so fun. The IP stuff is easy, just need a DHCP server at one end and a big hub at each end. Thanks D > Adam > -- > This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed > Adam > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Highly regulalar inquiries
by David Freeman 19 Aug '01

19 Aug '01

Adam and list, I noticed that with Marks website rebuild the FAQ has appeared. First impressions are that I am impressed, even if I am quoted for saying Linux is a five letter work :o) But I did notice a couple of things: 1) You say we're aren't a secret society etc... if we aren't why was it you insisted on that weird initiation ceromony for the newbies at the last meet ? :o) 2) What happened to my answer to the Will I be lynched for using question? it is a genuine question I got asked by one of our token OpenBSD users ? 3) One to add: What do you do on IRC? Not sure of the best answer for this one can anyone suggest anything better than my normal answer of "Well chat, what else?" 4) Mark: can we add a members page with Name, Email, homepage, Picture, small description etc...? Thanks D - One Week to go till the Linuxbeirwanderung! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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DOSEMU
by Steve Kuo 18 Aug '01

18 Aug '01

Anyone get Win 3.1 to run under DOSEMU yet? ===== --------------- Steve Kuo "How can we claim to be an advanced and civilized society when no other creatures on Earth develops technology to blow themselves up three times over?" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [Alug] Next Meet
by MJ Ray 18 Aug '01

18 Aug '01

"John Woodard" <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> writes: > If we can't book the UEA I can host at Syleham if needed. Keep going Beej... we may take you up on it yet. This would be a good (the only?) opportunity to pass UEA over smoothly, though.

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About the UEA thing
by Steve Kuo 18 Aug '01

18 Aug '01

Um, I can't book them, I'll have to ask one of my parents (they're the ones that are studying), they're also very distrustful of strangers, so don't assume it's done. When abouts will this be going on anyway? ===== --------------- Steve Kuo "How can we claim to be an advanced and civilized society when no other creatures on Earth develops technology to blow themselves up three times over?" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 18 Aug '01

18 Aug '01

Mark Elliss <mark.elliss(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Ok I'll stop lurking and introduce myself too. Hooray! Oh, and hello too. > I work from home in a small village called Onehouse in Suffolk. Sounds like a very small village, but I think that's a misnomer. > I am an Objective-c programmer by choice and an electronics engineer by > trade. Objective-c was something on my list of stuff to learn, but it's now so far down the list it's unlikely to happen in this or the next life. Scheme is just so fast to learn ;-) > Family permitting I hope to attend some of the meets soon. See you soon, hopefully...

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Re: [Alug] Next Meet
by MJ Ray 18 Aug '01

18 Aug '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Steve Kuo wrote: > > I second the idea at the UEA... [...] living on campus [...] > Was that you just volunteering to book the room etc. then? My thoughts exactly! Seriously: I am leaving UEA and will not be able to book them any more, but I may still be lurking enough to be useful for this meeting, so it would be an ideal time to hand over organising UEA meetings to someone else. Steve, are you up for this?

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Re: [Alug] The web site
by David Freeman 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:16:44 +0100 (BST) markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk wrote: > OK, I'm going to give the web site a bit of a quick kick up the arse > this weekend, so other CVS users beware and make sure you do a "cvs > update" before editing anything. Hurrah! > Everyone can help! I'd like any bright ideas about what you want to > see on the site, please. The front page will finally become less > "content-free", so don't suggest that, but do suggest what you want to > see on it. A penguin, one big herring stuffed penguin! Seriously, a good introduction would be a good idea. > Also, I'd like anyone's explanations of what "Linux is..." and "ALUG > is...", please. The more the merrier! LINUX: is a five letter work. ALUG: The Anglian Linux Users Group (ALUG) is a group of like minded induviduals, many of which live in the East Anglian Region of England. Membership is not limited to East Anglian with members living as far afield as Kent, The channel Islands and Japan. As a group we exist to help promote the use of Linux and are happy to help any newbie to get started. Any one is welcome, even Bill Gates :o). The group is made up of over 120 members who are subscribed to the main mailing list. There are two mailing list, ALUG(a)stu.uea.ac.uk and alug-social(a)lists.alug.org.uk. #include<discription_of_lists.h> As a group we try to meet every few months. Meetings vary in there make up but this year have included, mas installs, demo's of wireless networking and general fault finding for people who bring there PC's. etc etc.... This is just some ideas banged out whilst sat in suffolk college library. > Finally, if anyone wants to help directly, drop me an email and I'll > tell you how to get started with CVS and XML as soon as this update is > over. It's so simple, even David Freeman should be able to do it! ;-) No its not! its a convoluted attempt which really boggles the mind! :o) > PS David - there is a dormant Kent LUG for you to restart, you know? I know, I already have plans <fx action="Evil cackle"> having spoken to a couple of other linux users in kent who want to get it going again. Thanks D > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Next Meet
by Steve Kuo 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

I second the idea at the UEA... It's a big place and very easy to get to... the fact that I'm living on campus at the moment did not affect my decision whatsoever... :) ===== --------------- Steve Kuo "How can we claim to be an advanced and civilized society when no other creatures on Earth develops technology to blow themselves up three times over?" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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The web site
by markj＠cloaked.freeserve.co.uk 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

OK, I'm going to give the web site a bit of a quick kick up the arse this weekend, so other CVS users beware and make sure you do a "cvs update" before editing anything. Everyone can help! I'd like any bright ideas about what you want to see on the site, please. The front page will finally become less "content-free", so don't suggest that, but do suggest what you want to see on it. Also, I'd like anyone's explanations of what "Linux is..." and "ALUG is...", please. The more the merrier! Finally, if anyone wants to help directly, drop me an email and I'll tell you how to get started with CVS and XML as soon as this update is over. It's so simple, even David Freeman should be able to do it! ;-) PS David - there is a dormant Kent LUG for you to restart, you know?

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Friendly Offer ?
by Martyn Ashworth 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

All, I have got a copy of Kylix (Open Source) that I will gladly burn onto a CD for anyone interested (or who do not have the bandwidth to download 28Mb). All you then have to do is register to play with an awesome RAD tool for Linux. Sys Requirements: RedHat >= 6.2 Mandrake >= 7.2 SuSE >= 7.0 175Mb Free HD Space. Just e-mail me the postal address (mailto:martyn.ashworth@eag.uk.com) and i can get it sent out in the post tonight. Martyn

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Contract work...
by Simon Parkes 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

Hi peeps... I may have some short term contract work soon, if anyone is interested could they please mail-me off-line at simon.parkes(a)worldspan.com for a better description.. Simon

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Cost of RHCE
by Martyn Ashworth 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

Oops, scrap the last message it cost ?2k not 4. Martyn

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RE: [Alug] New Subscriber Introductions
by Martyn Ashworth 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

> OK out of curriosity as its a sys admin qualification how much did it cost to > get the peace of paper? As I have had some bad luck with job hunting and things > are getting very tight with the moneys It was a one week "intensive" course followed by an exam (which was graciously included for the modest sum of around ?4k). I would look into alternatives as I do honestly believe that it doesn't touch the core of linux but just the RedHat packages/additions that they bundle. Martyn

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Re: [Alug] New Subscriber Introductions
by MJ Ray 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

"Martyn Ashworth" <martyn.ashworth(a)eag.uk.com> writes: > Well, I found that the RHCE examination was not a good test of any persons > abilities with Linux as a whole. I feel that I passed without knowing any > real amount about my beloved OS. Do we have anyone who's either studying for or has passed the LPI <URL:http://www.lpi.org/> exams and can say if *they* are a good qualification?

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RE: [Alug] New Subscriber Introductions
by Martyn Ashworth 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

> I'm being mean here. at least you're honest! >> "an operating system which still baffles me" > [...] >> RedHat Certified Engineer (some would say just remove the word RedHat!) >Hmmmmmmz. Well, I found that the RHCE examination was not a good test of any persons abilities with Linux as a whole. I feel that I passed without knowing any real amount about my beloved OS. I certainly know more through reading HOWTO's and man pages than I ever learned through my time down in Guildford. Still I hope I make up in energy and commitment all that I lose through ignorance and inability. P.S. - Thanks for the welcome MJ. Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Fw: [Eurorights] FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant (fwd)
by David Freeman 17 Aug '01

17 Aug '01

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:07:35 +0100 "John Woodard" wrote: > David Freeman wrote: > > > Seriously someone who isn't voted in purely on there personality. > > If they are voted in because of their personality how come 95% of all > MPs/MEPs have had a personality bypass? :-) People don't vote for a particular candidate they vote for a party and the personalities of that party, i.e. Hague or Blair? Thanks D > Cheers, > BJ -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Fw: [Eurorights] FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant (fwd)
by David Freeman 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:05:21 +0100 "Ashley T. Howes" wrote: > > > >> This also seems to be related to the general problem of the > >> introduction of > >> more complex technology into society, which is governed by people who > >> don't > >> understand it. Unless something is done, this is only going to > get worse. > > > >The problem is people are apathetic, stupid, gullable and down right > >incompetent. > > Perhaps, or may be they have not been educated about the full implications > of their rulings. I expect they only checked with business on the > advantages/disadvantages of this ruling, and they of course are concerned > 100% with protecting their intellectural copyrights, etc Of course they did why the hell would they consult with general public? The public are a problem, not useful. > >the 3 B's works everytime, add some FUD to the Bull shit and > >your onto a winner, the problem is the goverment is currupt and needs > >replacing, Quite how we can do so will prove difficult, which comes back > >to the qualities of people above. > > I'm curious, who would you like the government to be replaced by? Me! No one understands my needs more than me! Seriously someone who isn't voted in purely on there personality. > > > >But step one is join the Euro crimes mailing list. Step 2 is to join > the EFF. > > > > I'll look into these. Thanks. Good. Thanks D > Ashley > > > > > Dr. Ashley T. Howes PhD www.ashleyhowes.com > Programmer > > "When he sees the dream he seeks, he will sleep" > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Fw: [Eurorights] FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant (fwd)
by David Freeman 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:41:16 +0100 "Ashley T. Howes" wrote: > This kind of thing pisses me off, however this is related to the general > defense of laws put in place by the American government. More > exactly, our > problem with this appears to stem from the fact the original law was > passed. The key question appears to be why this law was passed and what > can be done in the future to stop this happening again! We can change it but it will be difficult. We need to make it so that the law is completely useless and we need to work to get it removed! No I am not naive > This also seems to be related to the general problem of the > introduction of > more complex technology into society, which is governed by people who > don't > understand it. Unless something is done, this is only going to get worse. The problem is people are apathetic, stupid, gullable and down right incompetent. the 3 B's works everytime, add some FUD to the Bull shit and your onto a winner, the problem is the goverment is currupt and needs replacing, Quite how we can do so will prove difficult, which comes back to the qualities of people above. > Ideas to stop this in the future, comments on the above? Some Ideas above, but I think we will need to think carefully. Luckily the brits have a good record of being able to change laws through peace full protest i.e. Chartist movement, Suffragets(Sp?), gay rights movement. However non of these really contradicted on the interests of Big business, which could prove interesting, one thing for sure we need to use the system against the system. But step one is join the Euro crimes mailing list. Step 2 is to join the EFF. Thanks D > Ashley > > > > > > Dr. Ashley T. Howes PhD www.ashleyhowes.com > Programmer > > "When he sees the dream he seeks, he will sleep" > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] PostgreSQL v MySQL ??
by MJ Ray 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

"Martyn Ashworth" <martyn.ashworth(a)eag.uk.com> writes: > However, in this particular case it is a single large text file containing > legal information/requirements/building regs/energy conservation regs etc. Look into the "large object" import/export support. Quite how you do this seems to depend on the language...

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RE: [Alug] PostgreSQL v MySQL ??
by Martyn Ashworth 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

Firstly, MJ Ray Wrote: > What the hell are you doing if you expect to do more than 8k in a > single row? If it's a single large object, you should use the > particular support for it (which I admit I'm bad at using). If it's > really unavoidable, you can change that limit to something larger by > recompiling. And Then, Alexis Lee Wrote: > Some People (those who 'picked up database design as they went along'), > like to have all the data in a single table. Lots of fields. It does reduce > joins... <wince> > Incidentally, Martyn, I make the above comment assuming such a design has > been forced upon you, not that you are one of the Some. And In Defense, I Write: I DID pick up Database design as I went along, I first started using Pick/D3 on Linux (back in 96 I think?) which was my first introduction to relational database design. Although I doubt I am even an adequate database designer (having little "real-world" experience) I am not a person who likes large data tables, in fact I have a habit of creating more tables than most people would ever care to count (I believe it's the database equivalent of Sadomasochism?) However, in this particular case it is a single large text file containing legal information/requirements/building regs/energy conservation regs etc. and all those lovely clauses that solicitors love connecting to each particular building we are involved in the construction of. Many can be split down but some are SO big and cumbersome that I decided (with time restrictions imposed - my only real defense against ignorance here) a single table per contract would be the easiest way to go. However, if someone wishes to enlighten the un-enlightened on the best way to handle such volume I would be most appreciative (the IT department here is just 1 person - ME so research time is a precious commodity). I therefore enter a plea of "guilty with extenuating circumstances". Cheers for the advice to all though. Think I will 'play' with PostgreSQL tonight. Good job the coffee machine is free-vend. Martyn

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next meet
by Alexis Lee 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

May I request the next meet be at UEA? I provisionally offer to try installing PHP for people. It's always easier to be there. Did the buffer overflow demo happen? Alexis -- "All programmers are optimists" - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that"

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Re: [Alug] PostgreSQL v MySQL ??
by MJ Ray 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

"Martyn Ashworth" <martyn.ashworth(a)eag.uk.com> writes: > What advantages are there to migrating across to PostgreSQL now ? A database that works "better", is more "stable and has less "interesting extensions". My opinion only, some people love mySQL and I expect we'll have to wait a few generations for Darwin to work and all the mySQL supporters to have gone insane and not had any surviving offspring. (Hint for the hard of thinking: I'm not being entirely serious here.) > The other problem that i can forsee is that apparantly PostgreSQL has an 8k > row limit which is not un-workable but would require more time and effort > than MySQL for some of my data structures at the present time. What the hell are you doing if you expect to do more than 8k in a single row? If it's a single large object, you should use the particular support for it (which I admit I'm bad at using). If it's really unavoidable, you can change that limit to something larger by recompiling. > I would appreciate any helpful feedback here as the only useful comparison > i've found so far seems to be inconclusive to say the least !! All comparisons but one's own are inconclusive...

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PostgreSQL v MySQL ??
by Martyn Ashworth 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

>> Currently working on a large internal PHP/MySQL/Apache system. (get ready >> for some "help needed" questions soon). > Aagh! Use Postgres! > In a month or three's time you'll thank me... Probably a stupid question but... What advantages are there to migrating across to PostgreSQL now ? For the kind of site that we are developing there seem to be no real advantages that I can make out? (considering that the user base here is 45 and at most 20 would be on-line at any one point). The other problem that i can forsee is that apparantly PostgreSQL has an 8k row limit which is not un-workable but would require more time and effort than MySQL for some of my data structures at the present time. The set-up here is not going to be "hardcore" like a commercial site with huge hit stats per day. I would presume we'll be lucky to hit 10,000 page hits in an average working day. I would appreciate any helpful feedback here as the only useful comparison i've found so far seems to be inconclusive to say the least !! Yours, Martyn

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Fw: [Eurorights] FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant (fwd)
by David Freeman 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

This was sent to the eurorights mailing list. I think we are doomed! Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jei <jei(a)cc.hut.fi> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:10:20 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: [Eurorights] FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 07:43:44 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: politech(a)politechbot.com Subject: FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant The opinion, released Tuesday, can be found at: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/H021961.PDF Background on DVDCCA lawsuit (a California state case using trade secret claims, as opposed to the federal DMCA lawsuit in New York): http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dvdcca Statements from the DVD CCA attorneys: In response to Court of Appeal of the State of California, Sixth Appellate District, ruling on Matthew Pavlovich v. Superior Court of Santa Clara Co. Jeffrey L. Kessler, Senior Litigation Partner (Weil, Gotshal & Manges, LLP): "We're very pleased with the court's decision because it stands for the principle that individuals who steal trade secrets cannot hide behind the internet as a shield to protect them from responsibility for their unlawful conduct." Robert G. Sugarman, Senior Litigation Partner (Weil, Gotshal & Manges, LLP): "This decision clearly indicates that individual states like California have the legal ability to protect businesses and organizations in their states from unlawful conduct carried out against them via the internet." ************ Excerpts from ruling: Pavlovich founded and operated the LiVid video project, whose purpose was to aid in the development of an unlicensed system for DVD playback and copying. Pavlovich owned and operated the Web site called "livId.on.openprojects.net," where he posted the DeCSS program. Pavlovich knew that DVDs deliver motion picture content to their purchasers. He testified in his deposition that DVDs are "a large storage medium" that can be used for "a lot of different things," one of which, "holding motion pictures," is "probably the most well known." Pavlovich admitted in his deposition that "there was an organization which you had to file for or apply for a license or whatever" to use certain DVD technology, and that he knew about this because "[i]n the course of the development of the project, the Linux video and DVD project, there was a lot of discussion regarding the decryption piece of the full length of decoding of DVD and, you know, there were individuals making statements on the mailing list as to - to that effect." Pressed for the kind of statements he had heard, Pavlovich answered it was "[s]omething along the lines of you've got to apply for a license and whatnot." Nonetheless, Pavlovich never sought or obtained a license to use DVD technology for his LiVid project. Pavlovich admitted that his LiVid project utilized DVD CCA's trade secrets, including those contained in DeCSS. Pavlovich further admitted that through the LiVid project he aimed to develop an unlicensed DVD player that would use DeCSS to decrypt DVD data. Pavlovich knew that DeCSS was developed by reverse engineering, which he knew was unauthorized. [...] Despite his knowledge of how DeCSS obtained and misappropriated DVD CCA's trade secrets, Pavlovich sought to and actually disseminated those trade secrets. [...] Because Pavlovich knew that California is commonly known as the center of the movie industry, and knew that Silicon Valley in California is one of the top three technology "hot spots" in the country, he knew, or should have known, that the DVD republishing and distribution activities he was illegally doing and allowing to be done through the use of his Web site, while benefiting him, were injuriously affecting the motion picture and computer industries in California. The question is whether Pavlovich's lack of physical and personal presence in California incapacitates California courts from jurisdictionally reaching him through its long-arm statute. We hold it does not. [...] We conclude the denial by the trial court of Pavlovich's motion to quash service of process comports with notions of fair play and substantial justice under the due process clause of the United States Constitution. Consequently, the exercise of jurisdiction by the trial court is reasonable. The petition for a writ of mandate is denied. Real party in interest DVD CCA is awarded costs as the prevailing party. ************ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:40:44 -0700 From: Stanton McCandlish <mech(a)eff.org> Subject: CA Court Asserts Jurisdiction Over TX Net Publisher Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Advisory For Immediate Release: August 8, 2001 Contacts: Robin Gross, Staff Attorney - Intellectual Property, robin(a)eff.org, +1 415-436-9333 x112 Lee Tien, EFF Senior Staff Attorney, tien(a)eff.org, +1 415-436-9333 x102 CALIFORNIA COURT ASSERTS JURISDICTION OVER NON-RESIDENT INTERNET PUBLISHER On August 7th, the California Sixth Appellate District issued an opinion denying Matthew Pavlovich's motion to dismiss the case against him for lack of personal jurisdiction over him. Pavlovich, who was a college student in Indiana and now lives in Texas, claims postings made to the LiVID mailing list, which he ran from his home computer should not subject him to defending himself in California. LiVID is an open source development team working to build a DVD player compatible with the Linux operating system that could compete with the movie studios' monopoly on DVD players. In January 2000, a California judge issued an injunction banning dozens of individuals, including Pavlovich, from publishing DeCSS computer code. Today, the court held that because Pavlovich knew the movie business was in California, publishing information that might have an effect on its profits was a sufficient connection to find Pavlovich within the court's purview. This ruling magnifies the ability of Hollywood or other businesses to successfully sue anyone in the world who publishes information on the Internet which the movie studios claim could hurt their profits. Pavlovich is considering an appeal of the order to the California Supreme Court on Constitutional Due Process grounds. Text of ruling: http://www.eff.org/Cases/DVDCCA_case/20010807_pavlovich_appelate_ruling.html About EFF: The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to Web sites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech(a)eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Eurorights mailing list Eurorights(a)eurorights.org http://www.eurorights.org/mailman/listinfo/eurorights

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RE: [Alug] php4 install
by Martyn Ashworth 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

goto this url http://www.phpbuilder.com/forum/archives/3/2000/8/1/100820 and hopefully the answer should be in there somewhere ? i would read it all myself but i'm just having one of those afternoons!!! -----Original Message----- From: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk [mailto:alug-admin@stu.uea.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com Sent: 16 August 2001 14:20 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] php4 install M J Ray wrote: >Do that and we will have to kill you ;-) To put me out of my misery? Or you? >What are the last few lines before the >make "***...Error" line that you gave? Making install in . make[1]: Entering directory `/php-4.0.6' /bin/sh /php-4.0.6/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -I. -I/php-4.0.6/ -I/php-4. 0.6/main -I/php-4.0.6 -I/usr/include/apache-1.3 -I/php-4.0.6/Zend -I/php-4.0.6/e xt/mysql/libmysql -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/xmltok -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/x mlparse -I/php-4.0.6/TSRM -DLINUX=2 -DEAPI -DTARGET="apache" -DUSE_HSREGEX -DUS E_EXPAT -DSUPPORT_UTF8 -DXML_BYTE_ORDER=12 -g -O2 -o libphp4.la -rpath /php-4. 0.6/libs -avoid-version -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -R /usr/local/pgsql/lib stub.lo Zend/libZend.la sapi/apache/libsapi.la main/libmain.la regex/libregex.la ext/my sql/libmysql.la ext/pcre/libpcre.la ext/pgsql/libpgsql.la ext/posix/libposix.la ext/session/libsession.la ext/standard/libstandard.la ext/xml/libxml.la TSRM/lib tsrm.la -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv stub.lo: file not recognized: File truncated collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [libphp4.la] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/php-4.0.6' make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1 >Once again, what is wrong with the prebuilt php4 that you're trying to >fix? Or is this all an exercise in masochism? I can't remember exactly, as it seems a long time ago, perhaps I could retry......there were some probs so I left it a few weeks and have just come back to it. I'm still a bit hazy on what is the easy way and what is the hard way here. :-) I seeem to choose the hard way every time by mistake, anyway. Thanks, Jenny. _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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