First, my apologies for cross-posting (which I know will affect some of you), but this is one of those news gems which deserves the widest publicity. I just received my ISP Zen's latest News letter. One item therein is: Powerpoint politics There's a new political party in Switzerland and its sole aim is to have PowerPoint outlawed. The Anti-PowerPoint Party says banning the application would allow people to get back to doing some real work. In the party's blog, it claims that so many government institutions use PowerPoint that about 11 per cent of more than 4.1 million employees have to waste time on presentations on a regular basis. The ban might happen. Citizens can force a referendum on any subject in Switzerland. All it takes is 100,000 voters to sign a petition demanding one. URLs in the Zen article: [techeye.net: "Switzerland demands Powerpoint's death"]: http://zen-mail.co.uk/IJT-HCUP-3BFWEB-6SFFZ-0/c.aspx Sample quote: "Looking at the problem Europe wide, SAP thinks that Powerpoint costs the 110 billion Euros which is coincidentally how much the Greek debt bail-out will cost." [techeye.net: US Army declares war on Powerpoint"]: http://zen-mail.co.uk/IJT-HCUP-3BFWEB-6SFG0-0/c.aspx Sample quote: "Sam Nuxoll, a platoon leader in Iraq, seems to have shaken the Pentagon with a quote that said he was spending most of the war making Powerpoint slides. Instead of spending his time dodging bullets, he was making bullet points." ===================================== And I shall add one of my own favourite APP diatribes (much inspired by Edward Tufte, one of the great experts in the presentation of information, and a pioneer in formulating the principles of good presentation): http://services.exeter.ac.uk/cmit/media/audio/ Microsoft-Powerpoint-And-The-Decline-Of-Civilisation-BBCR4-2004-10-18.mp3 (equivalently: http://tinyurl.com/42al9e9 ) [BBC Radio 4, 18 October 2004. Duration 14 minutes. Which was a delightful surprise to me that day, with R4 casually on in the background] See also the Wikipedia article on Tufte: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_tufte There's a good (bullet-pointed???) summary of his views on PowerPoint in Section 2.2 "Criticism of PowerPoint". Best wishes to all! Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <ted.harding@wlandres.net> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 01-Aug-11 Time: 11:37:35 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
Wow, you seem like a butt head to me. Banning Power Point. So I guess you've never seen a good presentation then? Classic example, watch a TED.com talk. I'm sure they don't all use Power Point at TED but that's not the point, its not PowerPoint per se that you're getting at I don't think, its presentations right? Because just banning Power Point within Government gets nothing but a change in software provider; and knowing governments it couldn't possible free FOSS so it would cost millions to roll out some other expensive shit. So its seems like a dumb idea to me banning Power Point; or do you actually mean ban presentations with slide shows all together; because that would just be super stupid. Everyone finds it easier to interpret data when pretty pictures are involved, why would you get rid of that? Moan about time wasting; un-needed presentations, meetings that are about future meetings, that sort of shit; don't ban and effective method of representing data during a talk?! -- James. http://www.jamesbensley.co.cc/
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 12:04:57 +0100 James Bensley <jwbensley@gmail.com> allegedly wrote:
Wow, you seem like a butt head to me.
So its seems like a dumb idea to me banning Power Point; or do you actually mean ban presentations with slide shows all together; because that would just be super stupid. Everyone finds it easier to interpret data when pretty pictures are involved, why would you get rid of that?
This is irony, right? Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- The text file for RFC 854 contains exactly 854 lines. Do you think there is any cosmic significance in this? Douglas E Comer - Internetworking with TCP/IP Volume 1 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc854.txt ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On 1 August 2011 13:51, mick <mbm@rlogin.net> wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 12:04:57 +0100 James Bensley <jwbensley@gmail.com> allegedly wrote:
Wow, you seem like a butt head to me.
So its seems like a dumb idea to me banning Power Point; or do you actually mean ban presentations with slide shows all together; because that would just be super stupid. Everyone finds it easier to interpret data when pretty pictures are involved, why would you get rid of that?
This is irony, right?
You're agreeing with James, right? -Srdjan
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 13:59:56 +0100 Srdjan Todorovic <todorovic.s@googlemail.com> allegedly wrote:
This is irony, right?
You're agreeing with James, right?
No, wrong. I was not agreeing with James. Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- The text file for RFC 854 contains exactly 854 lines. Do you think there is any cosmic significance in this? Douglas E Comer - Internetworking with TCP/IP Volume 1 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc854.txt ---------------------------------------------------------------------
James Bensley wrote:
Wow, you seem like a butt head to me.
Banning Power Point. So I guess you've never seen a good presentation then? Classic example, watch a TED.com talk.
I'm sure they don't all use Power Point at TED but that's not the point, its not PowerPoint per se that you're getting at I don't think, its presentations right? Because just banning Power Point within Government gets nothing but a change in software provider; and knowing governments it couldn't possible free FOSS so it would cost millions to roll out some other expensive shit.
So its seems like a dumb idea to me banning Power Point; or do you actually mean ban presentations with slide shows all together; because that would just be super stupid. Everyone finds it easier to interpret data when pretty pictures are involved, why would you get rid of that?
Largely because no-one remembers the content.
Moan about time wasting; un-needed presentations, meetings that are about future meetings, that sort of shit; don't ban and effective method of representing data during a talk?!
I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all. -- Tony Anson www.girolle.co.uk/
On 1 August 2011 14:22, Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> wrote:
So its seems like a dumb idea to me banning Power Point; or do you actually mean ban presentations with slide shows all together; because that would just be super stupid. Everyone finds it easier to interpret data when pretty pictures are involved, why would you get rid of that?
Largely because no-one remembers the content.
If no one remembers the content, maybe the audience has memory issues? :) Or the *speaker* doesnt know how to present properly.
Moan about time wasting; un-needed presentations, meetings that are about future meetings, that sort of shit; don't ban and effective method of representing data during a talk?!
I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all.
Yeah? What do/would you use? OHP slides? white/black board? Full motion video? -Srdjan
Srdjan Todorovic wrote:
On 1 August 2011 14:22, Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> wrote:
So its seems like a dumb idea to me banning Power Point; or do you actually mean ban presentations with slide shows all together; because that would just be super stupid. Everyone finds it easier to interpret data when pretty pictures are involved, why would you get rid of that? Largely because no-one remembers the content.
If no one remembers the content, maybe the audience has memory issues? :) Or the *speaker* doesnt know how to present properly.
Moan about time wasting; un-needed presentations, meetings that are about future meetings, that sort of shit; don't ban and effective method of representing data during a talk?! I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all.
Yeah? What do/would you use? OHP slides? white/black board? Full motion video?
Whatever fitted the circumstances. Sorry about delay in posting reply - GPRS failed out here yesterday in Deepest South Norfolk. -- Tony Anson www.girolle.co.uk/
On 1 August 2011 14:22, Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> wrote:
I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all.
Really? In its most simple form, Power Point can show pictures. You would expect me to believe that pictures aren't an effective way of representing something. You've never seen a graph or chart that was clear, technical diagram, wiring diagram etc etc that help you understand something? Pull the other one. -- James. http://www.jamesbensley.co.cc/
I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all.
Really? In its most simple form, Power Point can show pictures. You would expect me to believe that pictures aren't an effective way of representing something.
But the way Power Point is generally used means that any useful or memorably information that might have been put across that way is diluted to nothing. You get far, far too many slides and way too much text for it to be effective. Bev.
On 1 August 2011 16:28, Bev Nicolson <lumos60@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all.
Really? In its most simple form, Power Point can show pictures. You would expect me to believe that pictures aren't an effective way of representing something.
But the way Power Point is generally used means that any useful or memorably information that might have been put across that way is diluted to nothing. You get far, far too many slides and way too much text for it to be effective.
And that is due to *people* not knowing how to communicate effectively, NOT due to any problems with PowerPoint or other electronic presentation systems. -Srdjan
On 1 August 2011 16:28, Bev Nicolson <lumos60@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all.
Really? In its most simple form, Power Point can show pictures. You would expect me to believe that pictures aren't an effective way of representing something.
But the way Power Point is generally used means that any useful or memorably information that might have been put across that way is diluted to nothing. You get far, far too many slides and way too much text for it to be effective.
Not Power Point's fault is it. Don't get my wrong I'm hardly its biggest fan but people not being able to write slides or present data clearly is their problem, not the software's. I don't see any argument here. Any fool with any program could write crap slides. -- James. http://www.jamesbensley.co.cc/
On 01 Aug 15:59, James Bensley wrote:
On 1 August 2011 14:22, Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> wrote:
I don't believe that Powerpoint *is* an effective way of presenting very much at all.
Really? In its most simple form, Power Point can show pictures. You would expect me to believe that pictures aren't an effective way of representing something. You've never seen a graph or chart that was clear, technical diagram, wiring diagram etc etc that help you understand something? Pull the other one.
Erm, I've seen plenty of those. Not one of them would I be displaying on a projected power point display though, they have too much detail for that to have been a useful way to display them. Simplifying to "a picture's worth a thousand words" doesn't mean that that picture is useful, without context it's useless, and a large majority of power-point using speakers have a habit of just reading the slides, and not really adding anything to it. If I'd wanted that, I'd have gone and read it on the interwebnets, TYVM. Now, if you're honestly stating that you have seen one of the above in a presentation that was worthwhile going to, and that you couldn't have got the knowledge quicker, clearer and more efficiently elsewhere, then I'm actually shocked and awed that you've found someone that can give a decent presentation and knows what their audience is about. -- Brett Parker
On Monday 01 August 2011 12:04:57 James Bensley wrote:
don't ban and effective method of representing data during a talk?!
The problem is exactly that it is not a effective method of presenting data. The correct method is by papers with graphical attachments. The problem with presentations is that they are a very bad method of presenting either data or arguments. Investment decisions at properly run companies are made on the basis of papers containing 5 pages of text and up to three pages of attachments, of which one must be a one page summary of financials. Ban complicated excel models full of irrelevant detail and macros, ban endless presentations with a few words per page. Get back to papers with tight arguments. Argue over assumptions and scenarios. I really think presentation mode decisions were a serious contributing factor to both the dot.com bust and the latest credit bubble and crash. Peter
participants (10)
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Adam Bower -
Anthony Anson -
Bev Nicolson -
Brett Parker -
James Bensley -
Marcus Harris -
mick -
Peter Alcibiades -
Srdjan Todorovic -
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