Support@ asks:
Do you know what your public IP address is? Do you have a fixed IP address?
I'm in the Tea House in Naardge, so haven't access to my hard copy crib(s) - I don't *think* my IP address is fixed, BICBW. I can't discover anything on this box (MSi Wind Notebook running Mint) which will tell me - I'm sure there is, but I've never had to look. Can I ask the terminal, and if I can, what would the magic formula be? (Pretty please...) -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On 31/05/13 13:12, Anthony Anson wrote:
I'm in the Tea House in Naardge, so haven't access to my hard copy crib(s) - I don't *think* my IP address is fixed, BICBW.
I can't discover anything on this box (MSi Wind Notebook running Mint) which will tell me - I'm sure there is, but I've never had to look.
Oh, and I'm connecting with wifi ATM, but from home I use the Vogonfone dongle.
Can I ask the terminal, and if I can, what would the magic formula be?
(Pretty please...)
-- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On Friday 31 May 2013 13:12:35 Anthony Anson wrote:
Support@ asks:
Do you know what your public IP address is? Do you have a fixed IP address?
I'm in the Tea House in Naardge, so haven't access to my hard copy crib(s) - I don't *think* my IP address is fixed, BICBW.
I can't discover anything on this box (MSi Wind Notebook running Mint) which will tell me - I'm sure there is, but I've never had to look.
Can I ask the terminal, and if I can, what would the magic formula be?
(Pretty please...)
curl ifconfig.me -- Stuart Bailey BSc (hons) CEng CITP MBCS LinuSoft (Managing Director) Linux Specialist & Software Developer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phone: (0845) 658 3563 Direct: +44 (0) 1953 878162 Fax: +44 (0) 1603 858583 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.linusoft.co.uk __________ Information from ESET Mail Security, version of virus signature database 8396 (20130531) __________ The message was checked by ESET Mail Security. http://www.eset.com
On 31/05/13 13:18, Stuart Bailey wrote:
curl ifconfig.me
Thanks - we might get this fixed - it only seems to happen in the evenings - the following morning it has always worked OK. Never had this trouble with Fire FTP, but half of that went AWOL a couple of weeks ago. -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On 31/05/13 13:18, Stuart Bailey wrote:
On Friday 31 May 2013 13:12:35 Anthony Anson wrote:
(Pretty please...)
curl ifconfig.me
That worked fine, thanks (had to apt-get install thobut). Now support@ asks:
Tony
That would fit in with the suggestion I mentioned in a previous email - do you know your public IP address, and I can check?
Never knew I had one. can the Magic Curl help? -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On Fri, 31 May 2013 14:19:30 +0100 Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> allegedly wrote:
- do you know your public IP address, and I can check?
Never knew I had one. can the Magic Curl help?
Anthony Steve's suggestion (curl) has given you your public IP address - i.e the address seen by the destination. This address will vary depending on your method of connection. At home you may have a fixed IP address from your ISP. It is more likely though that you will have a dynamic address allocated from a pool by the ISP. When out and about your public address will be that allocated by the network provider at the time (and may be interfered with by varying levels of proxies). If you are having trouble with your browser based FTP client, try the command line ftp. Or install a stand-alone ftp graphical client like gFTP. Personally I think browser based ftp sucks. Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 31 May 2013 15:23:32 +0100 mick <mbm@rlogin.net> allegedly wrote:
Anthony
Steve's suggestion (curl) has given you your public IP address - i.e the address seen by the destination.
Correction "Stuart's suggestion".... (forgive me). Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Friday 31 May 2013 15:53:12 mick wrote:
On Fri, 31 May 2013 15:23:32 +0100
mick <mbm@rlogin.net> allegedly wrote:
Anthony
Steve's suggestion (curl) has given you your public IP address - i.e the address seen by the destination.
Correction "Stuart's suggestion".... (forgive me).
Mick
---------------------------------------------------------------------
blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgiven -- Stuart Bailey BSc (hons) CEng CITP MBCS LinuSoft (Managing Director) Linux Specialist & Software Developer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phone: (0845) 658 3563 Direct: +44 (0) 1953 878162 Fax: +44 (0) 1603 858583 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.linusoft.co.uk __________ Information from ESET Mail Security, version of virus signature database 8397 (20130531) __________ The message was checked by ESET Mail Security. http://www.eset.com
On 31/05/13 15:23, mick wrote:
On Fri, 31 May 2013 14:19:30 +0100 Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> allegedly wrote:
- do you know your public IP address, and I can check?
Never knew I had one. can the Magic Curl help?
Anthony
Steve's suggestion (curl) has given you your public IP address - i.e the address seen by the destination.
Which surely must be the one required?
This address will vary depending on your method of connection. At home you may have a fixed IP address from your ISP. It is more likely though that you will have a dynamic address allocated from a pool by the ISP. When out and about your public address will be that allocated by the network provider at the time (and may be interfered with by varying levels of proxies).
I have what Paston calls a roving connection, just because I might connect with dongle, or a selection of wifi points as far apart as Cheshire and Hants, and which threw out the Hants connection at Christmas. May I here trumpet the praises of Paston? I got support (and a fix) on Christmas Day...
If you are having trouble with your browser based FTP client, try the command line ftp. Or install a stand-alone ftp graphical client like gFTP. Personally I think browser based ftp sucks.
Yes,wilco - butI'll have to read-up the command-line bit first. I have been using a standalone program (Filezilla) latterly - after the add-on Fire FTP went wonky. I was tempted to fire-up the laptop <mouth="wash-out"> in XP </mouth> and use WS_FTP: that's how miffed I've been getting. -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On 31/05/13 15:23, mick wrote:
On Fri, 31 May 2013 14:19:30 +0100 Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> allegedly wrote:
- do you know your public IP address, and I can check?
Never knew I had one. can the Magic Curl help?
Anthony
Steve's suggestion (curl) has given you your public IP address - i.e the address seen by the destination.
This address will vary depending on your method of connection. At home you may have a fixed IP address from your ISP. It is more likely though that you will have a dynamic address allocated from a pool by the ISP. When out and about your public address will be that allocated by the network provider at the time (and may be interfered with by varying levels of proxies).
My ISP tells me (by proxy) that it hasn't allocated me an IP address, and that it will be tacked-on by whatever host/dongle etc I'm connecting through, which is why I have to have a 'roaming connection'. -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:00:47 +0100 Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> allegedly wrote:
On 31/05/13 15:23, mick wrote:
This address will vary depending on your method of connection. At home you may have a fixed IP address from your ISP. It is more likely though that you will have a dynamic address allocated from a pool by the ISP. When out and about your public address will be that allocated by the network provider at the time (and may be interfered with by varying levels of proxies).
My ISP tells me (by proxy) that it hasn't allocated me an IP address, and that it will be tacked-on by whatever host/dongle etc I'm connecting through, which is why I have to have a 'roaming connection'.
Anthony At home (or wherever you use your dongle) your public IP address will be that allocated by your ISP. This address may be drawn from a small pool of proxy addresses on the ISP's network and will be used to mask your real local IP address which will also have been allocated by your ISP (you say you are using a 3G dongle, not wifi to a local router at home.) When out and about and using a wifi network from another provider (in your case you said that you were using a wifi network in a cafe in Norwich) you will get a public IP address from /that/ provider (and also a real local IP address.) Prove it to youself with Stuart's suggested test. use curl to get your IP address when connected over a free wifi. Then disconnect and reconnect using your 3G dongle. Now check again. You will have a different IP public address. You could go further and open a terminal to the shell and check your local IP address in each case (which will have been allocated from a DHCP pool by the provider you are using). Type "ifconfig -a" and look for the second line in each interface description starting "inet addr:" Ignore the local loopback (127.0.0.1) and you will see an address on the form 10.n.n.n or 192.n.n.n or 172.n.n.n. Most typically from a 3G network the address will be of the form 10.n.n.n because the telcos use that large address range on their internal dynamic networks. More typically on a wifi network in a cafe you will see 192.168.n.n because the local wifi router will be configured to hand out addresses from that much smaller pool. HTH Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On 01/06/13 14:31, mick wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:00:47 +0100 Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> allegedly wrote:
On 31/05/13 15:23, mick wrote:
This address will vary depending on your method of connection. At home you may have a fixed IP address from your ISP. It is more likely though that you will have a dynamic address allocated from a pool by the ISP. When out and about your public address will be that allocated by the network provider at the time (and may be interfered with by varying levels of proxies).
My ISP tells me (by proxy) that it hasn't allocated me an IP address, and that it will be tacked-on by whatever host/dongle etc I'm connecting through, which is why I have to have a 'roaming connection'.
Anthony
At home (or wherever you use your dongle) your public IP address will be that allocated by your ISP.
My concept of an ISP seems to be out of date then... For agesandagesandages I was with Zetnet (from about six months after they started, to not long after Breathe hootered them) and connected through a modem to a BT line. This was flaky, more of which later. BT at the time "didn't support the internet" - their words - and wouldn't fix the problem of line-dropping: they said it tested OK for speech. My ISP was Zetnet.The servers which connected me to the internet were in Shetland (later, with the coming of broadband, in Manchester). When my BT landline finally died completely BT didn't do anything about repairing it, but kept on billing me for rental, which is why I got the dongle. (It died because their grey twin feeder's insulation had become cracked and porous, and where the descending wire looped up to go through the window-frame, the accumulation of water running down it had eaten away the beryllium copper wire inside.) Where was I? Oh yes. I had never considered Vodafone to be my ISP: I considered it as a connection to Paston in lieu of a landline, and Paston as my ISP. Paston provides my webspace and holds my domains, so traffic goes via their servers.
This address may be drawn from a small pool of proxy addresses on the ISP's network and will be used to mask your real local IP address which will also have been allocated by your ISP (you say you are using a 3G dongle, not wifi to a local router at home.)
Yes indeed: though it's an old one and charges £15 for 1 GB of data transfer, it has rollover, and £15 lasts me several months. The newer 3 GB ones cost £15/month, and no rollover. I reckon it would take me three months to use 3 gig at the speed this thing runs - I only have a GPRS signal here. So sucks to BT!
When out and about and using a wifi network from another provider (in your case you said that you were using a wifi network in a cafe in Norwich) you will get a public IP address from /that/ provider (and also a real local IP address.)
Hmmmmm.
Prove it to youself with Stuart's suggested test. use curl to get your IP address when connected over a free wifi. Then disconnect and reconnect using your 3G dongle. Now check again. You will have a different IP public address.
I am aware that the current IP address goes with the host pub, café, library, dongle, w.h.y?
You could go further and open a terminal to the shell and check your local IP address in each case (which will have been allocated from a DHCP pool by the provider you are using). Type "ifconfig -a" and look for the second line in each interface description starting "inet addr:" Ignore the local loopback (127.0.0.1) and you will see an address on the form 10.n.n.n or 192.n.n.n or 172.n.n.n. Most typically from a 3G network the address will be of the form 10.n.n.n because the telcos use that large address range on their internal dynamic networks. More typically on a wifi network in a cafe you will see 192.168.n.n because the local wifi router will be configured to hand out addresses from that much smaller pool.
HTH
Helped? Oh yes: I'm going to have a nice lie down. Actually, thanks, yes, it does tell me that I was being asked the wrong question by support@ - I think - and that things have been moving on all these years while I haven't been paying attention (at the back). In any case, the unconnectivity hasn't recurred. yet. This is what support@ said: "Tony - You're not with us for your broadband connection, so it's a question that you have to ask your broadband (dongle?) provider" But Curl told me that... -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On 01/06/13 15:53, Anthony Anson wrote:
On 01/06/13 14:31, mick wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:00:47 +0100 Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> allegedly wrote:
On 31/05/13 15:23, mick wrote:
My concept of an ISP seems to be out of date then...
For agesandagesandages I was with Zetnet (from about six months after they started, to not long after Breathe hootered them) and connected through a modem to a BT line. This was flaky, more of which later. BT at the time "didn't support the internet" - their words - and wouldn't fix the problem of line-dropping: they said it tested OK for speech. My ISP was Zetnet.The servers which connected me to the internet were in Shetland (later, with the coming of broadband, in Manchester).
When my BT landline finally died completely BT didn't do anything about repairing it, but kept on billing me for rental, which is why I got the dongle. (It died because their grey twin feeder's insulation had become cracked and porous, and where the descending wire looped up to go through the window-frame, the accumulation of water running down it had eaten away the beryllium copper wire inside.)
Where was I?
Oh yes. I had never considered Vodafone to be my ISP: I considered it as a connection to Paston in lieu of a landline, and Paston as my ISP. Paston provides my webspace and holds my domains, so traffic goes via their servers.
ISP stands for Internet Service Provider. Paston provides internet services for your (webspace, domains etc). and so are an ISP for you. Vodaphone connect your local network to the internet - the internet connectivity service and so are also an ISP for you. Although both are ISPs for you, when you have connectivity problems, people will be most interested in the ISP that connects you to the internet - vodaphone in this case.
I am aware that the current IP address goes with the host pub, café, library, dongle, w.h.y?
WHY? That's just the way it works. (Simplifying a bit) A computer with a network card in it, but not connected to anything else, will give itself a ip address. If you connect computers together but not to the internet, when you turn a computer on it will send a message out on the network and say "What IP address can I use?" If there is a computer on the network that is working as a DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) server, it will allocate an IP address. If there are no DHCP servers present, then the computers may squabble about it and choose one for themselves. Connecting to the internet is slightly different. Usually your ISP (vodaphone in this example) will give you one IP address - it's simpler and quicker for them to just give you one address. The device that you use to connect to the internet typically has two IP addresses: One on the internet side (your public IP address) and one on your network/inside your house etc - your private IP address. I think this happens so that you can do more-or-less anything you want to on an internal network, and it won't affect the outside internet. It also allows a home-network of computers in your house to have various different IP addresses, and you still have just one public IP address on the outside. A router (or dongle) will route traffic to the appropriate computer, and do NAT - Network Address Translation - i.e. changing the external IP address to the correct internal one, and vice-versa. So, if you're at home with your dongle plugged into one computer, the dongle will have a public IP address (the internet side of things), and will give your PC an private/internal IP address. If you're in an internet cafe or using a public wifi , they will have a their own network. This will (almost certainly) be connected to the internet via an ASDL router. This router will have a public IP address, on the internet side of things. It will dish out a private IP address to any computer that connects to the WIFI. You will almost certainly get a different IP address each time you visit that cafe, and also get different IP addresses at different cafes. Once you've connected to such a network, provided you stay connected, your private IP address is unlikely to change. Also, provided the ASDL router (or your dongle) stays connected, its public IP address is unlikely to change. If a ASDL router or a 3G Dongle is disconnected from the internet for a while, when it gets switched on, you may or may not get the same public IP address that you got before - that depends entirely on how your ISP (Vodafone) sets things up. Your problems may be due to a particular public IP address being blocked because someone who was using that address did something wrong on the FTP server you were trying to access. If you switched off for a while and switched on again, you may have been allocated a different public IP address which was not blocked by the FTP server, so, you got in that time. Also, if you tried from an internet cafe, using WIFI not the dongle, you will almost certainly have had a different public IP address, and it was unlikely that this one was blocked by the FTP server, so you would have had success in downloading. HTH Steve
On 01/06/13 17:16, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 01/06/13 15:53, Anthony Anson wrote:
/big snip/
Where was I?
Oh yes. I had never considered Vodafone to be my ISP: I considered it as a connection to Paston in lieu of a landline, and Paston as my ISP. Paston provides my webspace and holds my domains, so traffic goes via their servers.
ISP stands for Internet Service Provider. Paston provides internet services for your (webspace, domains etc). and so are an ISP for you. Vodaphone connect your local network to the internet - the internet connectivity service and so are also an ISP for you.
Although both are ISPs for you, when you have connectivity problems, people will be most interested in the ISP that connects you to the internet - vodaphone in this case.
I am aware that the current IP address goes with the host pub, café, library, dongle, w.h.y?
WHY? That's just the way it works.
No-no-no: w.h.y? = 'what have you?' Maybe I shouldn't assume universal experience of Usenet.
(Simplifying a bit) A computer with a network card in it, but not connected to anything else, will give itself a ip address. If you connect computers together but not to the internet, when you turn a computer on it will send a message out on the network and say "What IP address can I use?" If there is a computer on the network that is working as a DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) server, it will allocate an IP address. If there are no DHCP servers present, then the computers may squabble about it and choose one for themselves.
While I have the connectors (for connection through a router, and straight box to box) - and network cards dating back to PCI) I've not yet found the necessity for networking. It's getting less handy, with bigger and vaster memory sticks...
Connecting to the internet is slightly different. Usually your ISP (vodaphone in this example) will give you one IP address - it's simpler and quicker for them to just give you one address. The device that you use to connect to the internet typically has two IP addresses: One on the internet side (your public IP address) and one on your network/inside your house etc - your private IP address.
Ah,and I'll have one of those even if I've never used an internal network? Is this why (earlier) attempts to install two dongles (both Vodafone but one of them the later 3 GB version) failed? Or was it under the influence of the Fat Cat's best efforts? Catfight between dongle softwares?
I think this happens so that you can do more-or-less anything you want to on an internal network, and it won't affect the outside internet. It also allows a home-network of computers in your house to have various different IP addresses, and you still have just one public IP address on the outside. A router (or dongle) will route traffic to the appropriate computer, and do NAT - Network Address Translation - i.e. changing the external IP address to the correct internal one, and vice-versa.
So, if you're at home with your dongle plugged into one computer, the dongle will have a public IP address (the internet side of things), and will give your PC an private/internal IP address.>> On 01/06/13 14:31, mick wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:00:47 +0100 Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk> allegedly wrote:
On 31/05/13 15:23, mick wrote:
My concept of an ISP seems to be out of date then...
For agesandagesandages I was with Zetnet (from about six months after they started, to not long after Breathe hootered them) and connected through a modem to a BT line. This was flaky, more of which later. BT at the time "didn't support the internet" - their words - and wouldn't fix the problem of line-dropping: they said it tested OK for speech. My ISP was Zetnet.The servers which connected me to the internet were in Shetland (later, with the coming of broadband, in Manchester).
When my BT landline finally died completely BT didn't do anything about repairing it, but kept on billing me for rental, which is why I got the dongle. (It died because their grey twin feeder's insulation had become cracked and porous, and where the descending wire looped up to go through the window-frame, the accumulation of water running down it had eaten away the beryllium copper wire inside.)
That's followed, and the tutorial will be kept for possible future reference.
If you're in an internet cafe or using a public wifi , they will have a their own network. This will (almost certainly) be connected to the internet via an ASDL router. This router will have a public IP address, on the internet side of things. It will dish out a private IP address to any computer that connects to the WIFI. You will almost certainly get a different IP address each time you visit that cafe, and also get different IP addresses at different cafes. Once you've connected to such a network, provided you stay connected, your private IP address is unlikely to change. Also, provided the ASDL router (or your dongle) stays connected, its public IP address is unlikely to change.
If a ASDL router or a 3G Dongle is disconnected from the internet for a while, when it gets switched on, you may or may not get the same public IP address that you got before - that depends entirely on how your ISP (Vodafone) sets things up.
I'll have to check on that - just out of interest
Your problems may be due to a particular public IP address being blocked because someone who was using that address did something wrong on the FTP server you were trying to access. If you switched off for a while and switched on again, you may have been allocated a different public IP address which was not blocked by the FTP server, so, you got in that time. Also, if you tried from an internet cafe, using WIFI not the dongle, you will almost certainly have had a different public IP address, and it was unlikely that this one was blocked by the FTP server, so you would have had success in downloading.
HTH Steve
Indeed yes, thank you for the trouble you have taken (and the homework you've set...) -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On 01/06/13 19:52, Anthony Anson wrote: With some unexpected duplication of content. Sorry. No idea how that happened. -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On 01/06/13 19:52, Anthony Anson wrote:
On 01/06/13 17:16, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 01/06/13 15:53, Anthony Anson wrote:
[SNIP]
WHY? That's just the way it works.
No-no-no: w.h.y? = 'what have you?' Maybe I shouldn't assume universal experience of Usenet.
Usenet? BTDTGTTS! just not come across w.h.y. before. [snip home networks]
While I have the connectors (for connection through a router, and straight box to box) - and network cards dating back to PCI) I've not yet found the necessity for networking. It's getting less handy, with bigger and vaster memory sticks...
Fairy nuff. I'd be lost without mine - networked printing, networked backup, networked music, centralised document storage etc.
Connecting to the internet is slightly different. Usually your ISP (vodaphone in this example) will give you one IP address - it's simpler and quicker for them to just give you one address. The device that you use to connect to the internet typically has two IP addresses: One on the internet side (your public IP address) and one on your network/inside your house etc - your private IP address.
Ah,and I'll have one of those even if I've never used an internal network?
Yes
Is this why (earlier) attempts to install two dongles (both Vodafone but one of them the later 3 GB version) failed?
Or was it under the influence of the Fat Cat's best efforts?
Catfight between dongle softwares?
It could be any of those 3 reasons, or a combination! [Snipadee doo dah]
HTH Steve
Indeed yes, thank you for the trouble you have taken (and the homework you've set...)
Cheers Steve
On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 09:16:49 +0100 steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk allegedly wrote:
Usenet? BTDTGTTS! just not come across w.h.y. before.
I suspect most people on this list have more than their fair share of usenet experience. Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On 04/06/13 15:57, mick wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 09:16:49 +0100 steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk allegedly wrote:
Usenet? BTDTGTTS! just not come across w.h.y. before.
I suspect most people on this list have more than their fair share of usenet experience.
I would have thought so, but some people look blankly at me when I mention newsgroups or Usenet. "Do I put www before that?"... -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On 04/06/13 17:27, Anthony Anson wrote:
On 04/06/13 15:57, mick wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 09:16:49 +0100 steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk allegedly wrote:
Usenet? BTDTGTTS! just not come across w.h.y. before.
I suspect most people on this list have more than their fair share of usenet experience.
I would have thought so, but some people look blankly at me when I mention newsgroups or Usenet.
"Do I put www before that?"...
Pah! The yoof of today eh? I'm old enough to have used gopher*! * - admittedly it was at an internet course at college, and it was already hardly used. Just out of interest, I've just done apt-get install gopher, and tried running gopher for the 2nd time in my life...well at least it was quick....ish. Steve
On 04/06/13 18:58, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 04/06/13 17:27, Anthony Anson wrote:
I would have thought so, but some people look blankly at me when I mention newsgroups or Usenet.
"Do I put www before that?"...
Pah! The yoof of today eh?
I'm old enough to have used gopher*!
* - admittedly it was at an internet course at college, and it was already hardly used. Just out of interest, I've just done apt-get install gopher, and tried running gopher for the 2nd time in my life...well at least it was quick....ish.
My first browser was Mosaic - does that count? (And my first Linux distro was FT) -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:58:04 +0100 steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk allegedly wrote:
Pah! The yoof of today eh?
I'm old enough to have used gopher*!
* - admittedly it was at an internet course at college, and it was already hardly used. Just out of interest, I've just done apt-get install gopher, and tried running gopher for the 2nd time in my life...well at least it was quick....ish.
You don't need a separate client these days. Most browsers will support gopher. Try: http://gopher.quux.org:70/ in the browser of your choice. Mick (Pushing 60. Hard. ISTR my first browser was mosaic on a Sparc 5, but my internet usage sort of pre-dates the web. I've even used ftp over email. There's a bastardisation of protocols for you.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On 05/06/13 12:15, mick wrote:
You don't need a separate client these days. Most browsers will support gopher. Try: http://gopher.quux.org:70/ in the browser of your choice.
Chromium: "Welcome to Gopherspace! You are browsing Gopher through a Web interface right now. You can use most browsers to browse Gopher natively. If your browser supports it, click here to see this page in Gopher directly. To find Gopher browsers, click here." Clicking the first "click here" brings up a window "Chromium needs to launch an external application to handle gopher: links. {snip} The following application will be launched if you accept this request" So to me, firstly the link you gave is a web interface onto a gopher server, so what the browser is doing web, not gopher. It then tries to load a plugin to handle gopher, so although it handles it, it doesn't handle it out-of-the-box as it were. Firefox showed me the same first message, but clicking on the first "click here" failed. Opera: Didn't work at all. Clicking on the 2nd Click Here link takes me to http://quux.org:70/Software/Gopher/Downloads/Clients Which doesn't really list any up-to-date browsers that I can spot. The reason I installed gopher, was because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_%28protocol%29#Native_Gopher_support Which didn't list any browsers I had, that could natively handle gopher, and I reasoned that I could install and install a small app with more control & safety, than I could install or uninstall a browser plug-in, BICBW, YMMV! :-) Steve
On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:48:54 +0100 steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk allegedly wrote:
The reason I installed gopher, was because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_%28protocol%29#Native_Gopher_support
Which didn't list any browsers I had, that could natively handle gopher, and I reasoned that I could install and install a small app with more control & safety, than I could install or uninstall a browser plug-in, BICBW, YMMV! :-)
And of course, ICBW... Odd that. It must just show how long it must be since last tried to access a gopher server with a browser. I could swear "it just worked" last time I tried it. The scary thing is that the link you give above says that it was supported natively in Netscape. I can't remember the last time I used that browser. And what I hadn't spotted just now is that I was really only accessing a webserver on port 70, not a gopher server. And I had forgotten that the gopher search engine (or gopher database) was called Veronica. Can you imagine people saying "just go veronica it....." Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On 05/06/13 15:07, mick wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:48:54 +0100 steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk allegedly wrote:
The reason I installed gopher, was because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_%28protocol%29#Native_Gopher_support
Which didn't list any browsers I had, that could natively handle gopher, and I reasoned that I could install and install a small app with more control & safety, than I could install or uninstall a browser plug-in, BICBW, YMMV! :-)
And of course, ICBW...
Odd that. It must just show how long it must be since last tried to access a gopher server with a browser. I could swear "it just worked" last time I tried it. The scary thing is that the link you give above says that it was supported natively in Netscape. I can't remember the last time I used that browser. And what I hadn't spotted just now is that I was really only accessing a webserver on port 70, not a gopher server.
Time flies doesn't it? The last time I used it was in excess of ten years ago. I used it and thought - thsis is cool - shame practically no-one is using it now. I remember seeing settings in browsers for setting up WAIS and Gopher and I had wondered what they were. It probably did "just work" last time you did it - I think people have been dropping support for it gradually over time.
And I had forgotten that the gopher search engine (or gopher database) was called Veronica. Can you imagine people saying "just go veronica it....."
I love the RO in veronica standing for "Rodent Oriented" :-). "Just Veronica it" doesn't sound too bad. I've watched a few episodes of the re-spin of Hawaii 5-O and there's some BLATANT M$ product placement in it. This one time (at band camp) one of the characters said "Just BING it". Eventually I worked out that they meant search for it in that search engine that a few people use. I think they were trying to instigate a catch phrase. I don't think it'll catch on. Mick, re-reading what I wrote earlier, I realised it might be interpreted as a bit rude - it wasn't intended to be rude so sorry if seemed that way. I think I should Gopher a walk now! Cheers Steve
On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 18:23:47 +0100 steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk allegedly wrote:
Time flies doesn't it? The last time I used it was in excess of ten years ago. I used it and thought - thsis is cool - shame practically no-one is using it now. I remember seeing settings in browsers for setting up WAIS and Gopher and I had wondered what they were. It probably did "just work" last time you did it - I think people have been dropping support for it gradually over time.
Yep. Somtimes I recall something from "yesterday" which turns out to be 5 or 6 years ago (well, that's what my wife tells me) whereas I can't actually remember yesterday....
Mick, re-reading what I wrote earlier, I realised it might be interpreted as a bit rude - it wasn't intended to be rude so sorry if seemed that way.
It didn't, and I didn't see it that way so no apology needed. Cheers Mick --------------------------------------------------------------------- blog: baldric.net gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (4)
-
Anthony Anson -
mick -
steve-ALUG＠hst.me.uk -
Stuart Bailey